Suggestions for privacy border between houses - zone 5b

4 years ago

last modified: 4 years ago

My neighbor and I just took down a row of scrappy trees between our houses. Many were unhealthy and a few were leaning toward my house so they had to go. We'd like to plant a new border between the houses for both privacy and asthetics. Our houses are, I'd estimate, about 60-70 feet apart so we'd like the bed to be about 20 feet wide and about 70 feet long. There is a young maple tree at one end and an older oak tree at the other (roughly 90 feet between them). We estimate both trees will need to come down in about 10-15 years due to their current size and proximity to the house. We're thinking we'd plan the bed to start and end about 10 feet from each tree. Here is what I've been considering:

Existing maple tree, 10' grass, start of bed, cluster of shrubs (maybe varigated weigela), three baby blue spruces, cluster of shrubs (maybe nishiki willow), end of bed, 10' grass, oak tree.

The landscaper I was talking to suggested 3-4 Colorado blue spruces, but I think they'll be too big in 15 years and we'll be starting over again. I'd rather go with one of the smaller varieties. Since I'm trying to cluster in odd numbers, I also thought of maybe adding a norway spruce at the end of the blues for some variation in size and color. Any thoughts or suggestions? Pardon the poor photos below. I was standing up against my house for the weird panoramic one, and by the maple for the other. Both are facing my neighbor. Also, I'm zone 5b and in a heavy deer area. Thanks so much!

Featured Answer

NHBabs z4b-5a NH

4 years ago

I have a mixed shrub bed that is probably 15’ x 60’ and am in a similar zone.

If you want arborvitae or Rhodies, just plan to spray with a deer repellent. Some are oil based and some can be mixed with a substance like Wiltpruf to prevent it washing off so that it only has to be renewed every few months unless there is new growth.

I second the comment about blue spruce not being worth a long term planting in the humid east. Mine after 10 years are bare on the bottom and losing needles and shoots on the top, so I will take them out in the next few years.

My preference is for having a rhythm of repeated characteristic plants down the length of the bed rather than clumps of one kind, and then I fill with variety. Here is a thread where about half way down I added a couple of posts with photos and an explanation of my plan and goals, so rather than rewriting the whole thing, I am sending you to the link.

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/3113384/shrubs-for-privacy-along-a-fence#n=22

I have listed plants I used and even after 10 years I am generally pleased. Some plants have not done well (Pieris and Cornus are much beloved by the voles and don’t live long without roots) and as mentioned above, the blue spruce are disease prone. By now many of my groundcovers and perennials have been shaded out. Right now it needs editing, but I have spent the last year dealing with a terminally ill family member, and it has done surprisingly well with quite literally no maintenance. I will do some editing this fall when it is a bit cooler, and if you can find dwarf versions of other evergreens that are less popular with deer if you don’t want to spray, that would be good. My Norway spruce which isn’t in my shrub border, while lovely, at something like 25-30 years, it is huge, perhaps 25’-30’ wide and well over twice that tall. So if you want to use a spruce, look for ones that grow more slowly. For instance, there is a slow growing version of Serbian spruce/Picea omorika as well as one that looks bluish, so look for those. I went to all the nurseries in my rural area and chose from what was available that suited my needs since I wanted somewhat larger starting plants. One of the fastest growing plants I put in were panicled hydrangeas, and between their ability to gain size quickly, their need for little attention after the first year or two, and their months long bloom, I would use these again in any similar garden.

I deliberately used more than one color and texture of evergreen for winter interest, particularly during the long fall and early spring when there isn’t snow. My cover photo shows a piece of it during this stage if you click on my name. If you have questions, feel free to ask.

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Comments (20)

Josie23: Zone 5: WI
4 years ago
I like lilacs, they are easy care, smell nice in the spring and make a nice border. It's what we did at my MIL house to create a hedge between her and the neighbor. You can get full size or dwarf if you don't want it too tall.
kpsherwin thanked Josie23: Zone 5: WI
floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK
4 years ago
Wait a bit and hope NHbabs responds. She's got wonderful mixed borders encompassing perennials, shrubs and small trees.
kpsherwin thanked floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK
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Hi Bruce, I dont want to turn this into another cottonwood/aspen rantbut I AM going to link one of the old RMG rants! Ever since I bought this house early in 04 Ive been battling these things, and over the years Ive come up with something that seems to work, so I thought Id let you in on my experiment results! I wont repeat all the stuff I said on that thread, but, first, even if your neighbor wanted to get rid of the tree, it only makes the situation worse. Once the "parent" tree is cut down, the suckers come up with a VENGEANCE! More about that in my 06.03.05 post! In April of 07 I resurrected the thread to report that using roundup on individual cottonwood suckers had been workingbut I was also killing a ring of grass around each sucker I sprayedand it was VERY labor intensive to try to spray the suckers without killing too much grass! And there were so many aspen suckers in my front yard that I couldnt use roundup on them without killing much of the grass! In July of 07 I did one more update to let everybody know that using Weed B Gon for suckers that were coming up in the grass worked very welland it continues to do so! My Final Plan included using Weed B Gon on any suckers coming up in grass, and using roundup on the suckers that came up in my perennial beds. To do that I cut the corner off of a plastic bag, pull the sucker up into the bag, and carefully (on a windless day) spray all the foliage inside of the bag, then fold the bag over and weight it down with something so the roundup doesnt "accidentally" get on the perennialswhich are often VERY close to the sucker. Closing up the bag also seems to help by "steaming" the sucker inside of the bag. When the sucker has completely browned, I pull the bag off and cut it off at or below the soil level. Since then Ive added another step to my faux eradication Plan! Now when Im digging to plant or dig up perennials and find a root thats bigger than about a half an inch, I dig the hole as big as I want/need it and then cut the root back to the side of the hole. Then I dig a little more soil out around the root, put a small baggie (non-zipper) over the end of the root, make sure the top/opening of the baggie is higher than the bottom which is around the end of the root, and pour a small amount of roundup over the end of the root into the plastic bag. Then I pack the top of the baggie shut with some of my nice heavy clay, plant what I want there, and fill the hole completely with (improved) soil. This, I have discovered, really seems to be a death knell for that particular rootnot that there arent a million-zillion more just waiting to make an appearance! But this method has successfully done-in the bigger roots that I had been spraying and/or cutting off ever since I moved in here. In case you cant tell, I have a BAD problem with cottonwood and aspen roots! The one neighbor behind me has THREE of them that are less than a foot away from my back fence. One of them has actually started moving the fence, and that same one is moving the (two-high) railroad ties that border the perennial bed that runs the whole way along the fence. The railroad ties that have found themselves in "a very moving position" are four and a half feet inside of the fence, so about 5 feet away from the tree! Mostly Im able to cut out the roots with a limb lopper, but Ive also cut out roots that were more than 3" in diameter, and I obviously had to saw them offincluding a few that were in my "escape-proof" garden which is between the back of my shed and my side fenceand is only about 20" wide! Its always fun working in there! In April 09, after years of cutting/spraying the suckers, I decided to apply a root mitigation program in my escape-proof garden! Here are some of the roots I cut out! And heres where they were cut out ofjust before "capping" the ends of the roots with plastic bags and pouring some roundup on them, and after refilling the hole with new soil! No suckers came up from these roots for the rest of the summer! And heres a picture of what I ran into when I was "trying" to dig up my Herrenhausen ornamental oregano to take along to the swap, and another one of some of the roots I had to dig out to plant my grape vinejust one, one-gallon plant! Ok! This has turned into another rant! I think Im justified! And after all the problems Ive had with cottonwood/aspen roots for well over 15 years now, I will definitely not be planting bambooor Virginia creeper or trumpet vine or mint or yarrow or gooseneck loosestrife (I LOVE the flowers!) or Mexican evening primrose or............... End of rantfor now! Skybird
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If it were me and I was going to redo the front walk I would just do poured concrete in an oval shape to mirror the bed around the trees in front of the house. That's the least maintenance. Yes, remove the yews, they should not be trimmed in an unnatural box shape for a home as natural looking as yours. Don't know what the tree is next to the yew shrubs, maybe blue atlas cedar or blue spruce? Either way, it is going to get big so you may want to move it now while you still can. It's a "specimen tree" meant to be viewed from afar, so I'd put it in the back yard, "afar" from the house where I could take it in while sitting on the back patio or looking out the back window. You could take out the front set of birches with two trunks, that is the one that blocks the view the most. I wouldn't do that, but I am a tree hugger. Where the yews and that blue green tree are, I would put some flowering trees or shrubs that would remain small, and maybe something that smells nice to greet me as I walked up to the front door. You don't say your zone, but it appears to be a 4 season area so I'd put in some rugosa roses (but that's just me) maybe mixed with hydrangeas. That's what I have in my front entrance way. Roses can get buggy, so if you want something even less maintenance, shrubby cinquefoil and low growing spirea are just about as easy peasy as it gets. "Knock out" roses don't smell as great as a rugosa but are more foolproof, depending on your zone. BTW, there are small evergreens you could put next to your house. There are some small junipers that would fit the bill, or a bird's nest blue spruce (which I don't particularly care for but some folks love). But like I said, not sure what that is by the yew hedge, it may be a dwarf for all I know but it doesn't look like it from my casual glance.
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mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
4 years ago
A location would be helpful. My guess is Michigan?
kpsherwin thanked mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
Sigrid
4 years ago
Rosebay Rhodos. They'll take a while to fill in. Arborvitae is an option, too.
kpsherwin thanked Sigrid
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Yardvaark
4 years ago
In general the bed scheme seems to make sense, but since it is a bed with trees, I wonder why you are not directly connecting it to the wooded area ... and possibly at the other end to the single tree (though that seems more optional.)

It would seem sensible to cluster large evergreens at the place where screening is needed the most (centrally) With what distance exists between the houses I don't think I'd be so stringent about the bed being limited to 20' wide if screening plants need more width. The bed could grow with the plants. I Also wouldn't place these as a single line since there is space available. Once the evergreen screen portion is established, the remainder of the bed could be filled with just about anything of interest, and would look best if some color/texture contrast was included. Don't plant one of this and one of that, but large groups of things. It would be a great place to allow some large shrubs to grow to their full potential.
kpsherwin thanked Yardvaark
functionthenlook
4 years ago
Don't plant arborvitaes. They are deer candy. The green giant arborvitaes are deer resistant, but they grow tall which you don't want. I am zone 6 and did a border of shrubs for privacy on each side of my house. I am not a formal landscape kind of gal (nature isn't formal) and mixed them up. I have 2 different kinds of weigela, red twig dogwood, forsythia, lilacs. azaleas, rose of sharon, smoke bush, butterfly bush, harry lauder walking stick, hydrangea, snowflake bush and pussy willow. Of course I have about 300ft of border, so you might not want to use as many. I have behind, but in between the shrubs have planted ornamental grass. This is only the 4th summer and the grass offers privacy until all the shrubs fill in. For 2 years I free handed trimmed some of the bushes to make them grow fuller. Now I am letting them grow into their natural state.
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BeverlyFLADeziner
4 years ago
kpsherwin thanked BeverlyFLADeziner
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Yardvaark
4 years ago
Osage orange would be a great tree for a naturalistic border island.

I can't give more than a vague idea of a scheme with this perspective view picture. One would work out the details in PLAN view.
kpsherwin thanked Yardvaark
raee_gw zone 5b-6a Ohio
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
Osage orange is a very large tree around here, and it sounds like the OP finds large trees a problem- he mentions taking down both existing large trees due to their size. And he probably wouldn't care for the large, useless fruit.

Arborvitae comes in a variety of shapes/ sizes/heights, and although they are somewhat ubiquitous, they are generally easy.

Gold mop cypress is attractive, lends variety in texture and color; although it is supposed to only grow to 3 feet or so, mine is 5 feet and still growing.
kpsherwin thanked raee_gw zone 5b-6a Ohio
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Yardvaark
4 years ago
I think leaning trees were mentioned. Straight, strong trees may be no objection. Useless (but delicious smelling, interesting and attractive) seasonal fruit that falls into naturalistic bed of trees, shrubs and groundcover, gets to be ignored and is unseen. Maclura pomifera is a great tree with many attributes and could easily fit into the scheme of a large landscape peninsula in what seems to be rural, or small town (large yard) situation.
kpsherwin thanked Yardvaark
kpsherwin
Original Author
4 years ago
Thank you all for your replies! Regarding my location, I'm in Upstate NY. Unfortunately, the deer are too hungry around here for arborvitae or rhododendrons to survive. Half the neighborhood had arborvitae at some point and now they all look like Dr Seuss trees.

My neighbor and I discussed taking the bed from tree to tree, but we are friendly so we'd like there to be a passthrough somewhere. I'm also concerned about having so much mulch to maintain, but I'm not against expanding the bed down the road.

Yardvaark, I like your mockup. What are you thinking for the pink mounds past the spruces?

Does anyone have any experience with baby blue eyes or baby blue spruce? I've read conflicting information about how large they get so I'm not sure how far they should be spaced apart.

Thanks again for all your input!
l pinkmountain
4 years ago
Lilacs and spruces are very popular borders here in Midwest deer country. Native junipers, the Juniperus virginiana (Eastern redcedar) species does well around deer too. So are big ol' spirea although I don't see them in nurseries very often. I wouldn't put osage orange on my list of attractive trees and the fruits are a pain. We get a lot of compliments on our red buckeye specimen trees, Aesculus pavia, although it has only moderate deer resistance. They don't seem to go after the trees after they get a bit mature.https://www.mortonarb.org/trees-plants/tree-plant-descriptions/red-buckeye
kpsherwin thanked l pinkmountain
mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
4 years ago
Blue spruce isn't very fond of eastern humidity. Around here, there isn't much time between the time they start looking good, and the time the needlecast diseases find them. People have been planted blue selections of Hinoki cypress that seem to be working out well.
kpsherwin thanked mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
kitasei
4 years ago
You won’t have to mulch long if you start planting pachysandra, sweet woodruff and geranium macrorhizum as groundcover. All can be spread easily, are deer proof and will work under any of the trees and shrubs you’re considering.
kpsherwin thanked kitasei
l pinkmountain
4 years ago
White spruce is gorgeous and native to the upper midwest, Picea glauca. Blue spruces seem to be catch as catch can where I live in MI. I am also fond of Serbian spruce, we have a gorgeous weeping one but the natural form is great too. And there's always Norway Spruce.
kpsherwin thanked l pinkmountain
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Yardvaark
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
"I'm also concerned about having so much mulch to maintain ..." I look at mulch as something to cover the ground when new plantings are full of widely spaced new plants, but not as something to keep maintaining. Nature's way is to cover the ground with plants whereas no more mulch is needed. If this was my bed, I'd fill it with trees, shrubs, groundcover/perennials (over some time) and never add mulch again. The first mulch (at planting) would be free power company mulch since this is not the entry garden.

"What are you thinking for the pink mounds past the spruces?" I'm not thinking they are anything but very large shrubs. And neither are those spruces. The sketch is schematic with no thought to what the actual plants are. One would create a short list of the plants the want to use and figure where -- in a plan -- could they be used. I'm just trying to show concepts like grouping, screening, transitioning, groundcovering, shrub-massing, height relationships, etc. The actual planning needs to be done on a plan that is drawn out on paper. Keep in mind that we can't see OP's house, and speculate what the neighbor might want screened. One has to look at this from all directions.

"... we are friendly so we'd like there to be a passthrough somewhere." It could happen anywhere. It just needs to be accounted for in the plan, when a plan on paper is created.

"I wouldn't put osage orange on my list of attractive trees..." I don't know why not. Like most trees, it can be quite handsome if well maintained. A large one has a beautiful trunk and a lot of stature. They're a strong, tough and disease free native ... with very hard and durable wood. I'm not trying to sell them. It was mentioned and I agreed. This would be they type of place to use such a tree. But there are countless other possibilities, too.

Once the OP begins to create a PLAN, this island is going to shrink considerably, as it would not take all that many trees and shrubs and sun-loving perennials to fill it up. Later, after some shade is established, shade-loving groundcovers could be introduced.
kpsherwin thanked Yardvaark
l pinkmountain
4 years ago
Cool article on osage orange as a hedgerow tree. The photo in the article is the view I'm used to seeing on farms around here, of osage orange. You decide on the pluses and minuses of the look. No tree is completely ugly to my mind, but it's definitely a look that may be an acquired taste. To me it says old farm love.http://thesga.org/2010/04/botanical-lesson-osage-orange/
kpsherwin thanked l pinkmountain
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Yardvaark
4 years ago
Any tree planted 1' apart and neglected from there on out ... that's the look.

Or, one could take care of it, and it could look like any of these ...

(From very young to very old ... tough as nails.)
kpsherwin thanked Yardvaark
laceyvail 6A, WV
4 years ago
I'd go with plants that are mostly clothed to the ground--Magnolia stellata, Viburnums (evergreen if your zone permits), for example and other large shrubs with only a few small ornamental trees here and there. A 20 ft wide bed allows for some depth back to front in plantings.
kpsherwin thanked laceyvail 6A, WV

Suggestions for privacy border between houses - zone 5b

NHBabs z4b-5a NH

Comments (20)

Josie23: Zone 5: WI

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Suggestions for privacy border between houses - zone 5b

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