Just to clarify, that last one that got cut off in the heading was Gloire de Dijon, I'm guessing?

Hopefully Christopher or Monarda or others are around somewhere and will see this..

Having grown both I much prefer Reve d'Or over Crepuscule, but I also don't know about its zone hardiness. Surely someone will chime in who can tell us.

If you're going to grow tender things that need to keep a good amount of cane -- in other words, as climbers -- put them against a south-facing wall, and don't try to grow them on something free-standing in the open. 'Gloire de Dijon' will probably be less tender with regards to frost damage, so if you're going to experiment with something on a pillar or post, use that one.

If, instead, you plan to grow the others as loose shrubs, perhaps with support, that can be done in the open. Just be aware that you'll probably be cutting them back hard in Spring, and in that case, make sure they're in completely full-sun so that they'll grow back as much as possible every Spring/Summer.

I've come to learn that growing tender things like Chinas, Teas, Noisettes, etc. here requires one of two situations -- either protection, such as against a south-facing wall, which minimizes Winter damage, or being planted where they get all-day full-sun in the open, where they'll likely have significant Winter damage but will get what they need to grow back every year. For example, 'Napoleon' is planted against the south-facing side of the house, and it got to over seven feet tall on one fat cane, leaning against the house. There, it gets little Winter damage except to thin stems that hadn't hardened off yet. Planted out in the open is "Bermuda Spice", which gets significant Winter damage most years, but will rebound to at least five feet tall and wide by the end of the season even if cut back as hard as a Hybrid Tea, to within inches of the mulch line. So take that as a guide -- if you want to keep surviving cane from year to year, plant where they'll be protected from damage. If you just want a loose mounding shrub, plant where there's all-day full-sun to promote regrowth after Winter takes much away.

:-)

~Christopher

I don't grow the roses on your list, but do grow Mme Alfred Carriere and Blush Noisette. MAC is 5 feet tall here, and BN is 3- 3 1/2 feet tall.

BN receives all day sun, and MAC almost a full day, just a few hours of dappled shade in the midday.

Thank you everyone!

Christopher, I think I can do what you advise and I certainly will try. Thank you so much for explaining it in detail.

Daisy and Ingrid: just like you say I have read in a couple other places though the habit of Crepuscule is pretty the flowers are not. I am going to go with Reve d'or. Is it fragrant for you? Fragrance is very important for me. And you do see rebloom?

Krista, I had planted a MAC in 2007 and completely forgot about it after a while. At the time I thought erroneously that MAC was large shrub and that it can tolerate shade. It really was in dappled shade with just some morning sun and maybe a tiny bit of afternoon sun . It was completely neglected at least 7 years. I found it this spring covered with invasive vines. But MAC was alive and had a trunk and canes that were each over an inch thick and grown 25-30 feet into neighboring trees. I cleaned it up and now I have this monster sized rose on the ground and blooming. I dont know what to do with it. Its in the wrong place.

(I guess I can grow noisettes, at least MAC).

Katy, I would love to see pictures of your Madame Alfred Carriere. I have a baby Reve d’Or with one small bloom this year, but it was exquisite! Fragrance was tea scent and moderate. RdO should be as big as MAC. There is a full grown one at Huntington Garden that only has growth on top with flowers facing up so you can’t see any of them. I put mine on the side yard fence that I look down on from the kitchen so I will see the blooms on top facing up. I plan to cut all the blooms not in my kitchen view to enjoy inside.

"Madame Alfred Carriere' is a bit of an exception among the Tea-Noisettes with regards to its hardiness. I think it's probably something more like a "HP-Noisette", from what I've read of it (I haven't grown it yet). That it's triploid hints at its other parent being something more cold-hardy than a Tea. So don't assume that where she's hardy you'll have the same success with one of the yellow Tea-Noisettes, but certainly consider her if you don't mind that she's nearly white rather than the colors of the roses you mentioned in your first post. You'll probably have much more surviving cane on her if you need a climber in an unprotected spot.

:-)

~Christopher

Interesting thought re MAC, Christopher! She does seem to be remarkably vigorous in so many situations; just in my experience alone she thrived 100% healthily in both the 11-year drought-ravaged roasting dry heat of South Australia, where she was admittedly in mostly dappled shade but only got supplemental deep watering c3 or 4 times per summer at most, and in my sister's place in cool to mild, rainy-all-year-round Wales where, once established she shot up the south-facing front wall of her tall 2 storey cottage with equal enthusiasm.

Thinking of Jackie's many-storied house and tree-eating monster and Katy's (Katya's?) far-roaming wanderer, my impression is that she has a strong will to survive and thrive and will seek out anything she can use for support in order to go UP towards the sunlight and warmth she likes and needs to do it best. So in Katya's garden, I should think that's what she's been doing - roaming far, looking for something she can clamber up on.

I wonder if those canes that are now up in the trees are withstanding the winter frosts and snow? Perhaps once she's strongly established 'down below' she's more resilient to cold 'up there'? I'm wondering if those invasive vines covering her were actually what kept her warm enough to put on all that amazing growth.

It would be interesting to know what is the coldest climate MAC's ever been grown in, and thrived. Sorry if this is veering a bit off topic from your main query, Katya. :-)