I appreciate all of your feedback. I couldn’t sleep, totally stressed. Yikes. My plan is on hold until a better design is put together.

Don't stress - it's VERY easy to change paper designs! You can have fun with this - but really think about your needs and wants. See if you have a local architect that haas done aging in place / one level homes.

Yes, it has to be frustrating to post a design, only to find out it's a not a good one.

But it's much better to find that out in the paper stage rather than in the construction it move-in stages.

There are some excellent suggestions for you in this thread. Perhaps the best may be to find an experienced architect who is knowledgeable about designing retirement and aging in place homes.

Good luck on your project.

Mrs Pete

Thank you kindly for your input. I very much appreciate all the time and thought you put in to writing a response. We met with a designer. It looks like we are staring from scratch.

Do you have pics of other homes the designer has done?

CP,

He is hoping to sent us something by the end of the weekend.

Well..here is the preliminary. He said he would try to first work with what we had, and if it’s still not suitable we will need to start from the beginning. Some of your suggestions were added. I think the kitchen and great room is a tight cluster mess. Not centered. Maybe I should skip the cathedral and just do 9 foot. Maybe put the fireplace back in the corner and have less windows in the back. The mud room door and bathroom door just isn’t going to work. The 1/2 bath is tight. The garage sticks out a bit too far. Thoughts?

@Mark - I’m starting a second “needs/wants” list and adding to it every time I read a new thread. We’re meeting our architect next week!

Why do you prefer a window in a walk-in closet? I always assumed this would affect the colours of the clothing and that giving prime space to a closet was a no no. Is there reasoning for a window that I’m not seeing?

I'm not a great fan of B&B siding but if that's what you like, don't repeat that pattern with vertical window mullions. Vertical mullions are characteristic of the Craftsman stye and this house is not of that style.

Res 3D sketches. I agree. The plan is to have stone to break things up. I prefer the plane windows.

This plan is just as bad. Actually in some ways this is worse.

And the fact he's using angled interior walls shows he's a draftsman and not a designer. You need an architect. Stop and go find one.

That plan from the front looks like the 50's or 60's IMO.

Tmreb I really like your plan. It just needs a few minor tweaks. I think I would move the kids hallway entrance so it mirrors the basement stair. Then I would eliminate the flex entrance so the front door doesn't swing into it. You have enough closet space you don't really need that one. Lastly there is usually room above a staircase to fit in that small closet in your master bath. I would use the wasted space there for you bath supplies! I guess I forgot to mention the roof. It is very big for a ranch home. I might hip the roof to save costs and your front gables will still look very nice! (these are comments for your first plan.)

Not to promote menards or anything but the house shape you have is very common and is easily found. Here is the hipped roof look that I spoke of earlier.

Still has that open feel you had earlier. But it is a bit smaller. If you need more visiting space I would finish a couple rooms in the basement and put the basement stairs to the right of the entry with an open rail on one side behind the fireplace. There are tons of layouts with your similar shape online. My in laws have a similar shape as well and here is their plan it is very open, with a side facing garage. But in the end it just depends on your needs and wants :) good luck.

Another try.... I’m not a fan of having the garage stick out so far. We will either move that side of the house back or flip the garages to a front load. Many of your suggestions were incorporated in this plan.

l'm sorry but it keeps getting worse, not better. You're trying to build a house by moving pieces like a tetris game. It won't work. This guy doesn't have a clue. It's too late now, but I'll expound in the morning.

Awe cp artist you stress me out

The right side is better imo. The laundry is still so little and dining seems out of place( a little too disconnected from the kitchen.) I like all of your storage and how you arranged the master bath. You could straighten the garage and master wall and line up the kitchen wall etc... to save on corners. Doesn’t look like it will cut too much into the living room space.

What direction does the backyard face?

It's great you got the bedrooms to have windows on 2 walls but the main rooms still only have windows from one direction.

The good thing is that there's an actual pathway/spine to the house. It's not overly complicated except in the garage area.

This is a retirement home and while you don't want to think of future maybes, it is always a possibility that needs to be considered.

You enter a mudroom barely large enough for a single person to enter. Now imagine you're carrying groceries and your spouse is helping. How do you actually get into that space and move around?

Your powder room is what is normally designed for hundred year old houses where the only place to put a powder room is under the stairs. As mentioned before, if either of you ever need a walker, or you have guests that need a walker or even a cane, that bathroom will be impossible to get in and out of.

The laundry room looks to be 7'4" deep. A washing machine takes up a minimum of 30" leaving just under 5' for maneuvering, yet you have something in the lower left corner taking up much of that space? I can't tell what it is. Whatever it is appears to be about 2' deep which leaves you very little room for working in the laundry room.

Also what type of washer/dryer are you planning on getting?

I can't see the dimensions in the master closet?

Are you ok with the door to the bathroom opening right in front of you? Do either of you need to use the bathroom in the middle of the night and turn on the lights? Will it wake the other partner?

Are you ok walking across your bedroom to get to your clothes from your bathroom?

A 3' + deep linen closet is basically useless because you'll never be reaching back that far to get things in the back.

Anyone flushing in the middle of the night will be heard in the bedroom. Trust me on that.

To get to the bedroom you walk down a dark hallway to a wall and then have to make a turn.

Over 5' between island and perimeter counters is too large, especially as you age in place.

Why the angled pantry stuck on the corner like that so when you enter the kitchen it's the first thing you notice?

Your kitchen layout is not ideal.

The powder room bath when flushed will be heard in the dining room.

The dining room is far from the kitchen.

Notice the pathways on this plan (red) versus livable space.

Oops. Forgot to post the pathways.

Some great suggestions from Mrs Pete and from CP.

I have completed my aging in place home (no, it doesn't cover all contingencies - if I get dementia I'll be ported somewhere). But, the upside of that dementia is I probably won't care, and if I do, I'll be a pain to caregivers no matter where I'm at.... (We went through this with Dad who passed away November 2014, so I'm not being sardonic, actually.)

I made sure my home is as ergonomic as possible. Living in New England, I do have steps going into my house, but they can readily be converted to a ramp. In Pennsylvania, you may want to think about that for a future addition. If essential, I have enough space in my main master closet to convert that to an elevator, should I wish to access my basement. Not doing that now, but it's an option.

Most of us really don't want to think about the Bad Things, but having been immobile over broken ankles and a (benign) tumor that attacked my knee & wasn't diagnosed properly when it shoulda been, then requiring major surgery and about 6 months of recoup time -- even if I weren't retired, I'd want to at least consider all this.

I built for what I can do (and love to do) TODAY, with an eye with might be needed TOMORROW. I am 65, and I'm happily raising chickens ATM, which may not be an option in five or ten or (hopefully) not until thirty years....

K. H. It is out, bc I asked to have it bumped out 2 feet so that there was ample room from island to couch.

Tmreb I see. I think I would focus on reworking the area around the stairs so that you can have a more useful laundry/powder/garage entry and you don’t waste space on a long hallway. That seems to be the most glaring issue. You can always reconfigure the kitchen space with the nice open area you have available.

Thank CPArtist for your feedback. I understand your concern about the winding trail and the possibility of needing to leave breadcrumbs so I don’t get lost. Most likely from the dining room and to the bedroom to the right won’t be used much. That’s there for when my mother and father (wheelchair bound) or my children when they visit from out of town.

I looked at so many plans online. Honestly, they all have their issue(s): No third car garage can be added, no steps for the basement, no powder room, layout too wide, needing to pass a bedroom from the foyer, bathroom visible from the main area etc. My husband and I visited two retired couples who built this plan. Both like the lay out. However, their plan was 1900 square feet, our’s is a tad larger which makes the exterior a challenge.

Today, I. suggested to split the master bedroom windows to allow for a dresser, switch the basement steps and closet to allow for a larger pantry to straighten the pantry door and bring the island closer to the counters. The island will then not be even with the fireplace, if we go with cathedral, which means the lights will be off center. That may drive me nuts. My options would be to extend the island longer or stick with 9 foot ceilings. I am also considering to revert back to a corner fireplace. Many people don’t like that, but I am not a fond of the TV above the fireplace.

Our budget is limited, otherwise I would truly invest in an architect and build my dream house along. Our lot has a house on each side. The back view is woods. I purposely enlarged the dining room to bring sun and air in the family room.

I will just keep looking at this layout for the next week to see if I can tweak anything else before moving forward.

Again, I appreciate EVERYONE’s feedback. What a great group of talented people.

Thank CPArtist for your feedback. I understand your concern about the winding trail and the possibility of needing to leave breadcrumbs so I don’t get lost. Most likely from the dining room and to the bedroom to the right won’t be used much. That’s there for when my mother and father (wheelchair bound) or my children when they visit from out of town.

That bathroom is NOT usable for your father in his wheelchair. You need a 60" turning radius!

In fact getting into that hallway and to the bedroom will be difficult for him!

This house is NOT ADA friendly!

I looked at so many plans online. Honestly, they all have their issue(s): No third car garage can be added, no steps for the basement, no powder room, layout too wide, needing to pass a bedroom from the foyer, bathroom visible from the main area etc. My husband and I visited two retired couples who built this plan. Both like the lay out. However, their plan was 1900 square feet, our’s is a tad larger which makes the exterior a challenge.

Which begs the question of why are you looking at generic online plans when you could be working with a LICENSED architect who could design a house that works perfectly for you without having issues.

Why would you want to spend 6 figures of your money to build a house where you have to adapt to the house versus the house adapting to how you live and what you need?

I built a house that fits my DH and my needs exactly as we wanted it. I don't have to adapt to the house because the house was designed only for us.

Our budget is limited, otherwise I would truly invest in an architect and build my dream house along. Our lot has a house on each side. The back view is woods. I purposely enlarged the dining room to bring sun and air in the family room.

Have you checked to see if you can afford an architect? Or did you just assume you can't.

Have you looked up Architectrunnerguy on this forum who works remotely and has created beautiful homes for quite a few members? Members who didn't have large budgets?

Why do you want a basement? It's more expense to build and heat/ cool.

Despite you assumptions robin in some areas of the country basements are a standard and if you ever need to sell a house built on a crawl or a slab it would quite possibly either not sell or command a steep discount. Yes more expensive but no on states that you have to heat and cool a basement.

If you have a basement could you put the third stall of the garage down there? I have several friends that have that scenario and they love it!

Robin0916

Correct, basement in Adams and York county (PA), are desirable. It is difficult to sell a house without one. This basement will have 9 foot ceilings.

Saw this and thought it looked similar. Keeping room and living room has nice windows lookin back toward your view This is a two story plan but you could put the down where the upstair is with an open rail. And put a coat closet over the wasted downstairs overhead opposite of the laundry entry. Or make the kitchen island a peninsula to make it a little smaller and make the pantry laundry area larger. I love how the bathrooms are hidden here. Just throwing out ideas with similar footprints.

This one has an extra bedroom instead of the extra garage stall. Don’t lose hope! I went through this with my house plan and I am glad I suffered through the revisions. What I ended up going with was way better then what I had started with and I am so happy!

tmreb, I actually think your plan is much improved from where it started, but it still has a little ways to go.

The right half of the house from the dining room and living room over is pretty workable with only a few exceptions.

1. Add a window on the side wall to bedroom 3 similar to bedroom

2. Is the closet in the hallway meant to be the front door coat closet? If so, it's awkward having your guests walk back toward a bedroom to hang things up or having to run back and forth 15' to take care of things for them. If it's not your front coat closet have you thought about your plans for storing them?

3. The dining room could use to be at least another foot deeper. If I'm reading your plan right, you have 13'-6" to work with. If you have a 6' table centered then put a cabinet on the back wall, there won't be enough space for a person to pull out their chair. Alternatively if you couldn't find that extra foot, I recommend off centering the window, light fixture, and door to the living room 6-12" toward the front door to make space for something on that wall.

Some problems and opportunities I see for rearranging the left side:

1. The corner pantry not in a corner is really going to interrupt the look and usability of the kitchen. All of the other appliances on this wall get stuffed into not enough space because of it. Remove the pantry, move the refrigerator down to the end and recenter the stove.

2. Your mudroom can hardly be called a room. You might have enough room for the tiniest of benches to take off your shoes next to the door. But only one person will fit in it at a time, and the only closet is 15' feet away in another hallway. Meanwhile that hallway is largely purposeless. That space needs to somehow be incorporated to make a workable mud room.

3. Unless you have outside access you are going to curse the turn in the basement stairs, because it will forever limit the size of things you can put down there.

4. My suggestion: have your designer get out their eraser and delete the half bath, laundry room, mud room, back, hall closet, and basement stairs.

5. Replace the half bath with a relocated pantry that opens out toward the kitchen. This is still convenient to the kitchen, especially the refrigerator without pinching the island and crowding the other appliances. Also you now no longer have a toilet that can be heard by all your dinner guests. Use the rest of this space for an expanded laundry room.

6. Replace the basement stairs with a larger half bath. This location is secluded but not intruding on the private areas of the house. Not sure on the dimensions, but you can probably cut a foot out of the depth and the master entrance to widen the hallway for the next change.

7. bump roughly 2' feet into the garage to expand the bedroom hallway into a proper mud room with room for a bench, closet or cabinets for coats and shoes, and room for people to move around. Relocate the stair to the basement between the garage and the WIC where they were in your last iteration.

Note that I'm laying this out schematically in my head. Your designer would need to confirm the dimensional feasibility. It also does noting to help the garage sticking out. The only solutions I have for that would involve more significantly reworking the house.

Not an improvement at all. That house has nothing about it that says retirement or Aging in place.

Start over.

A Fox:

Thank you for your suggestions.

1. Add a window on the side wall to bedroom 3 similar to bedroom. CONSIDER IT DONE.

2. Is the closet in the hallway meant to be the front door coat closet? If so, it's awkward having your guests walk back toward a bedroom to hang things up or having to run back and forth 15' to take care of things for them. If it's not your front coat closet have you thought about your plans for storing them? WE COULD USE THE BEDROOM 2 CLOSET. PROBABLY NOT IDEAL, BUT WE RARELY HAVE JUST GUEST. MOST PEOPLE WHO COME OVER WOULD THINK NOTHING OF THROWING THEIR COAT ON A BED. GOOD POINT, I"LL KEEP LOOKING AT THIS.

3. The dining room could use to be at least another foot deeper. If I'm reading your plan right, you have 13'-6" to work with. If you have a 6' table centered then put a cabinet on the back wall, there won't be enough space for a person to pull out their chair. Alternatively if you couldn't find that extra foot, I recommend off centering the window, light fixture, and door to the living room 6-12" toward the front door to make space for something on that wall. I"M NOT FOLLOWING YOU WITH THIS? IN ONE OF THE REVISED PLANS, I DID ADD TO THE DINING ROOM. IT CAUSED THE FRONT DINING ROOM WINDOW TO NOT BE CENTERED BETWEEN THE TWO BEAMS ON THE PORCH. MOVING THE BEAMS WOULD MAKE THEM NOT LOOK CENTERED OR EVENLY SPACED.

Some problems and opportunities I see for rearranging the left side:

1. The corner pantry not in a corner is really going to interrupt the look and usability of the kitchen. All of the other appliances on this wall get stuffed into not enough space because of it. Remove the pantry, move the refrigerator down to the end and recenter the stove. AGREE. I AM TRYING TO ENVISION HOW IT WOULD LOOK WITH TWO DOORS SIDE BY SIDE: PANTRY AND LAUNDRY? I DID CONSIDER BUMPING THE ENTIRE MUD ROOM, 1/2 BATH, AND LAUNDRY OUT TO THE PORCH.

2. Your mudroom can hardly be called a room. You might have enough room for the tiniest of benches to take off your shoes next to the door. But only one person will fit in it at a time, and the only closet is 15' feet away in another hallway. Meanwhile that hallway is largely purposeless. That space needs to somehow be incorporated to make a workable mud room. AGREE. EVERYTHING COULD BE SOLVED IT MY HUSBAND WOULD STICK TO A TWO CAR GARAGE AND NOT INSIST ON 3!

3. Unless you have outside access you are going to curse the turn in the basement stairs, because it will forever limit the size of things you can put down there. WE DO.

4. My suggestion: have your designer get out their eraser and delete the half bath, laundry room, mud room, back, hall closet, and basement stairs.

5. Replace the half bath with a relocated pantry that opens out toward the kitchen. This is still convenient to the kitchen, especially the refrigerator without pinching the island and crowding the other appliances. Also you now no longer have a toilet that can be heard by all your dinner guests. Use the rest of this space for an expanded laundry room. I'M TRYING TO ENVISION A NOOK NEXT TO THE PANTRY FOR THE LAUNDRY ROOM, OR WILL TWO DOORS BE SIDE BY SIDE?

6. Replace the basement stairs with a larger half bath. This location is secluded but not intruding on the private areas of the house. Not sure on the dimensions, but you can probably cut a foot out of the depth and the master entrance to widen the hallway for the next change. WOULD THAT ELIMINATE THE WINDOWS ON THE SIDE OF THE BEDROOM WALL NEXT TO THE BED?

7. bump roughly 2' feet into the garage to expand the bedroom hallway into a proper mud room with room for a bench, closet or cabinets for coats and shoes, and room for people to move around. Relocate the stair to the basement between the garage and the WIC where they were in your last iteration. WE TURNED THE GARAGES BACK TO FRONT ENTRANCE. I AM NOT SURE WHERE THAT PLACES THE WALK IN CLOSET?

I WILL KEEP LOOKING AT THIS. REGARDING OTHERS COMMENTS THAT THIS ISN'T ADA.

MY FATHER WOULD BE ABLE TO TURN IN THE BATHROOM FROM THE HALLWAY WITH HIS WHEELCHAIR. HE WOULD NEED TO BACK OUT, SINCE THERE IS NOT A 60 INCH RADIUS FOR A 180 TURN. HE DOES THIS NOW IN HIS OWN HOME>

Note that I'm laying this out schematically in my head. Your designer would need to confirm the dimensional feasibility. It also does noting to help the garage sticking out. The only solutions I have for that would involve more significantly reworking the house.

THANK YOU AGAIN AFOX FOR ALL OF YOUR SUGGESTIONS.

How will your father be able to move about your house and use the bathrooms????

You are so set on this plan that you're not seeing that he won't be able to function in your house.

MY FATHER WOULD BE ABLE TO TURN IN THE BATHROOM FROM THE HALLWAY WITH HIS WHEELCHAIR. HE WOULD NEED TO BACK OUT, SINCE THERE IS NOT A 60 INCH RADIUS FOR A 180 TURN. HE DOES THIS NOW IN HIS OWN HOME>

It's not only the bathroom.

And let's look at this. He does it now. Doesn't make it easy for him. We all do a lot of things that aren't ideal for us because of where we live or work but if you're building a new house, shouldn't it work for you? You're building a house that costs 6 figures and again instead of making the house work for you, you will be adapting to live in the house.

And I gave you a link to an architect who is highly regarded (and I'm told reasonable) here on this site, yet you won't even take the time to reach out to him? Even if you were able to get exactly what you need?

Hi CPARTIST, I actually did visit the website you gave me. I live close to several big cities and would be more comfortable meeting someone in person. Thanks again for your input.

Thank you KH. I do like the second floor plan.

Hi CPARTIST, I actually did visit the website you gave me. I live close to several big cities and would be more comfortable meeting someone in person. Thanks again for your input.

Ok so have you even looked to see if someone close to you would be in your price range?

I believe you gave me the information yesterday. I worked a 12 hour shift today. I will discuss with my husband. If we decide to move forward, it wouldn't happen until have the holiday.

I also recommend at least researching an architect.

if you’re set on a stock plan, however, I’ve always liked this one. It has some significant problems that you’d want to fix, but it gets better light, has a stronger organizing concept, and I think could be made more accessible (with some work) than what you’re considering. To me the most obvious and needed changes would be to add a window to the kitchen, convert the jack and Jill bathroom to an accessible hall bathroom, and rework the master bathroom so the toilet is more accessible. Oh, and add a third garage if that’s important to you.

https://houseplans.co/house-plans/b1240/

I’m fact, here’s a three car garage version of the plan with more traditional styling.

https://houseplans.co/house-plans/1258/

Thanks AFox and everyone for your input. Here is the latest. This drawing doesn’t show the change from a pantry to large kitchen cabinets and that the island was moved closer to the counter. AFox I played with the pantry on the other side but was worried how two side by side doors would look. Next question... 9, 10 foot or cathedral ceilings?

I would try to straighten some of the corners, I eliminated two corners with these options. One adds a little square footage the other takes some away from the master but your master is pretty big so I don’t think it hurts the size. I also think you should move your bedroom wing opening down a bit or up so you aren’t looking into the bathroom.

Happy Fourth!

I hope you're not expecting your father to get in and out of a tub!

Master is better but you still have that almost unusable powder room. In fact my toilet closet (which is removable if I'm ever handicapped) is about the same length and width of that room and I don't have a too small sink in it with a door that opens out to the hallway and takes up most of the hallway.

Where in the laundry room will you sort your clothes? Spray them? Fold them?

Which bedroom do you intend to put your parents in?

Dining room is still a hike from kitchen.

Kitchen needs help with that awkward corner pantry.

How will you get a bed, etc into your bedroom with that tight turn into the room?

Same question for the two other bedrooms.

Thanks KH. Meeting with the builder today and I will talk about tightening up those lines to they are straight.

CP Artist

My father will have no problem using the bathroom for his short visits. He will wheel himself in the bathroom and wheel back out, like he does in his own home. If he needs a shower he could use ours.

I agree about the pantry. That will be replaced with long cabinets that are straight on rather than an angle.

We are expanding the master bedroom out two more feet to make our master bathroom 2 feet wider. We will rearrange the master bath and have the door to the master closet entrance from the bathroom. This will give us more wall space in the bedroom for a dress so that the windows on the back of the master will be converted to French doors. The doors will allow larger furniture to enter/exit with ease. I don’t anticipate any problems getting furniture in the other two bedrooms. The hallway and doors are wide. We looked at two other furnished homes that were identical to this model, but smaller (1850 sq feet). Bedrooms 1 and 2 were furnished without the owners expanding the hallway and doors.

The dining room may be a little further. I’m actually OK with that. I wanted a wide window to help bring light into the family room. For us, the dining room is one of those rooms, that rarely gets used. My husband and I will be using the kitchen island.

I agree about the 1/2 of bath. We have 11-12 more years until we retire! For now, I wanted a 1/2 a bath closer to the garage entrance for my husband and friends to use without tramping across the house.

Now, I am contemplating on the ceilings. I think I’m going to do 10 foot in the kitchen, family room and dining and 9 foot for the rest of the house. The models we looks at, had cathedral. I’m not a fan of cathedral in the kitchen with the uneven cabinet or dust to collect.

Again, thank you so much for your input. Everyone did a fabulous job helping to improve this floor plan.

Feeling Thankful,
Tmreb

I would suggest going to a kitchen bath store to see actual cabinet setups. Many times they will have a 9 or 10’ ceilings so you can compare. Or look on Houzz a lot of times you can ask or someone has asked the ceiling height of a kitchen. We are currently building (9’ ceilings throughout) and I wanted to do cabinets up to the ceiling so I don’t have to dust up there. Turns out they are incredibly expensive. We are in the Midwest and started with a normal sized kitchen with full overlay. the bids we received for custom cabinets were $22,000 and $18,000. For standard cabinets (still full overlay) our bid was $12,000. These were not for the taller cabinets or a stacked double cabinet. I am really wishing I would have just had 8’ ceilings in the kitchen lol! I ended up redesigning the space to limit the amount of uppers by putting in a 7’ trio of windows. So I am going to get the taller cabinets and have minimal upper storage and a larger pantry. A friend on here sent me her kitchen pics and she has 10’ ceilings. Higher ceilings also means taller doors, taller windows and imo more overall expense. I still wish we would have gone 8’ but it was too late because we purchased our precut studs when lumber was @ a market low in Jan.

I’m not a fan of your friends cabinets. A place to collect dust. Personally, I like to see what my hands are touching when I clean!

I agree, but my point is with 10’ ceilings these are already tall cabinets. The only way to remedy these expensive cabinets is to add tall crown Moulding or drywall down. Which adds even more expense! Just something to think about while you decide ceiling height. This is what I would like mine to look like. White kitchen is 9’2” tall ceilings not sure about the wood kitchen.

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