Did you share all that information with whoever designed the house?

I did, along with budget as well.

Thanks Beckysharp! Yes not really sure what a KD charges. I’ve only had one reply but she’s been so slow to reply to emails that I worry how much lack of communication will be involved. She quoted $1500 for design input and 2020 rendering along with consult and one site measurement. She’s also an hour away.

The Finished Kitchens Blog has some good inspiration and information, with photos and details about many Kitchens Forum members' finished kitchens from the early 2000s forward.

Creating a plan for a custom cabinet maker is a lot more involved than doing a design using a standard semi custom line. Not as many KD's are able to do that. A design plan that a cabinet maker can follow isn't a "layout". That's maybe 1/5 of the work to get a design finalized. A layout isn't an orderable parts and pieces kitchen. You will still need a KD to translate a layout into a workable, installable, design. $1500 is low for the design and documentation for your custom cabinet maker. Be sure that the skill set is actually translatable to what you need.

I have an Idea Book devoted to Project Documentation, which a full service KD should work to give you. And more. If you are wanting a cabinet layout only, instead of full service design, you still would need all of the notated cabinet elevations and floor plans, with an orderable list. And your KD should be in communication with your cabinet builder. Each builder has their own preferred way of doing some things. https://www.houzz.com/ideabooks/105612493/list/project-documentation-samples

Agree but inexperienced designers can get into plenty of trouble with stock cabinets as they don't always come with design safeguards.... Crown to opening clearances, refrigerator cabinet depth (add 1" for typical, 2" for flush) upper cabinet adjacent to oven columns, how the overhang is built, clearances for taller baseboards, etc.

Walking through the kitchen to the master entry?

I just want to say I feel your pain. We had an architect originally, and then decided to hire a KD for that part of the build. It was surprisingly hard. Most folks in the area work for a design-build form, which wasn’t what we needed. I found someone and she gave us some great ideas and a general plan, but when I went to hire for additional time to design cabinets I learned she mainly worked for Crystal Cabinets and all the rest of our conversation was about that. Again, not what we were looking for so we just designed ourselves with our cabinet makers.

You’re planning a 100K-130K kitchen. Plan at least 5-8% for design work.

I know you are only asking about the kitchen (love, love, love the walk-in pantry! still miss mine), but I am concerned about the front entry. For a kitchen so grand, I would expect a better, wider entry. From the entry, there are only two ways through to the great room where you will live and entertain. Guests will walk through your kitchen or your dining room, neither of which make a good hallway. This walkway will significantly affect the size of your dining room table. Back to the kitchen...it’s a hallway to your bedroom, too. I like to unload my dishwasher early in the morning, but the noise from the dishes clanking together would wake Sleeping Beauty or my DH.

Hi and thanks all for the input. CooksKitchen, my cabinet maker is indeed a true craftsman and I do plan on using the kitchen designer in coordination with the cabinet man(if I find one that is!) so they are in sync and I too thought the quote sounded too good to be true. Jeffrey R. Ganz, I agree with you and that's why I don't want to use stock or even semi stock and as far as the master bath of the kitchen I know it's unconventional but so is the laundry connected to the master closet and I cannot wait. Sara, yes I had a large pantry and my last house and bigger is better when it comes to that! Green Designs, makes sense-noted and thanks! Remodeling1840, we had the same walkway in our last house & yes some people would cut across that dining room but most would enter the foyer and hang a left in the LR. We have a 6 seat rectangular dining room table and when we put the leaves in for 8 I guess that's when it would make a much bigger difference but that would be 2 or 3 times a year. Path of least resistance I guess. Again, thanks all. Still don't know if I could hire a KD and do this long distance with them. Any other comments on the kitchen floor plan? Thanks again all!!

Any other comments on the kitchen floor plan?

I realized that the link I posted above to the layout post was wrong, so here it is corrected,

"Looking for layout help? Memorize this first"

I would start by reading through that. I was hoping that members like cpartist, Buehl, and Mrs. Pete could weigh in on the actual layout.

I'm thinking that you would get more comments on your kitchen floor plan with a different post title, along the lines of "Critique my kitchen floor plan please". It might be worth reposting with a new title and without the KD query.

If you're set on a KD, I believe Cook's Kitchen works remotely.

Edited to add -- I would make allowances for the upcoming holidays in both Canada and the US, because it can be quieter than usual around here.

Independent KD’s are few and far between. They mostly still represent cabinet lines and try to talk you into using them for more profit stream. Which is why an independent costs more than one of the “free” designers that sell cabinets. Independents aren’t making profit off of your cabinets, so their rates often look “high” to those who don’t know how much margin is built into cabinet sales. Agree, just hire Cook’s, if she has the time.

I would want another sink on the island closer to the range and the refrigerator. The sink you have on the perimeter could be the clean-up sink, and the one on the island could be the prep sink.

I'm not one of the kitchen layout gurus, but if I were I would see if you could get the fridge to fit on the sink wall, if you want to keep to one sink. I suspect as drawn, though, the fridge may be too large to fit on the sink wall.

I'm concerned about more than the kitchen plan.

I'm concerned that the only way to get to your master you have to walk through your kitchen and as designed right now, the shortest route to your master is through your work zone.

I'm concerned your dining area is not close enough to your kitchen especially since you talk about grandchildren which makes me assume you want to age in place.

I'm concerned that the fridge as placed right now is so far from your sink you'll need roller skates.

I'm concerned the first thing guests see as they enter the house is the powder room.

I'm concerned the second thing they see is the kitchen.

I'm concerned that with all the pathways through your living room, you won't have much room for furniture.

And that's only the things I can see.

I'm concerned your dining area is not close enough to your kitchen especially since you talk about grandchildren which makes me assume you want to age in place.

Yes. I always wonder when kitchens open to living/family/great rooms and have the dining room off somewhere further. I would flip the great room and dining room.

Also, I've meant to ask but keep forgetting, next to the fridge, what is the "Full Height Cabinet w/ Cabinet Door Entry"? Is that supposed to be how you enter the pantry?

You might also want to consider a smaller fridge in the kitchen, and then perhaps something like your planned Subzero, or an all-freezer and all-fridge side-by-side in the pantry.

All good thoughts beckysharp. The pantry will have a hidden entry (will look like wall cabinetry but will have a concealed door.(look like uppers and lowers but the "cabinet" pulls will open the one large door on either side) I was wondering if fridge should go down to 36".... Also, what do think about swapping the fridge and wall oven placement? Since cpartist said its roller skate distance, maybe I should. Also, cpartist, dining room only used on major holidays 3-4 x's at most a year so no worry. Guests will access front door and not garage door so no powder room there to see. I'm ok w kitchen visible as my last house had similar flow b/w dinig, great & kitchen and we loved it. As far as pathways,good input. I think I will have to really think my new furniture as to make sure the new stuff isn't overly large and overstuffed to maintain those thoroughfares. It will be mostly just us two at most times but I will really have to plan for furniture so thanks. I'm excited to have kitchen so close to master. Dogs get up early and nice to be so close. I'm home early everyday in afternoon so no worry about kitchen noise early in morning as that's all done in afternoon. Thanks everyone and I'll repost for more ideas on kitchen floor plan w/o the KD in the header. Anything else? I really appreciate the input you guys!!!

The pantry will have a hidden entry (will look like wall cabinetry but will have a concealed door.(look like uppers and lowers but the "cabinet" pulls will open the one large door on either side)

Will you be able to get out of the pantry with supplies hands-free? I have a door on my fairly large pantry next to the kitchen, but it stays open all the time, because we are all in and out of there all the time.

Also, what do think about swapping the fridge and wall oven placement? Since cpartist said its roller skate distance, maybe I should.

Almost anything you can do to bring the fridge in closer would be helpful, though I do like the idea of a refrigerator at the "edge" of a kitchen so that non-cooks looking for a snack don't get in the cooks' way.

Roller skate distance can also indicate a barrier island and/or a kitchen that's overly large. You can have a smaller, efficient kitchen, esp with a large pantry, and you can have a large, inefficient kitchen. My parents had the latter at their retirement home, which influenced us greatly for our new house.

Also, cpartist, dining room only used on major holidays 3-4 x's at most a year so no worry.

Where will you eat the rest of the time? In the great room? Have you planned out where the various pieces of furniture will go?

Guests will access front door and not garage door so no powder room there to see.

Where is the front door located?

I'll repost for more ideas on kitchen floor plan w/o the KD in the header.

: )

I'd consider moving the entrance to the pantry to the "entry" (which I take it is the entry from the garage, not the front door?). That gives you more room to work with on that wall and makes it easier to get groceries into the pantry without making it much harder, if at all, to get items out of the pantry (leave the door open and you can just pop around the corner--no cabinet doors to open or close with your hands full).

I have no opinion on where, exactly, the fridge and double ovens should be because I'm a range person. But I think you need a prep sink in the island (or possibly on the cooktop wall if you are 100% opposed to an island sink) for two reasons. One, if you are keeping a bedroom walkway in the kitchen, it at least should not go through the primary work triangle. Two, it will cut the distance between refrigerator and sink in half, roughly.

“Hidden” pantries are just expensive gimmicks that break and confuse guests. The best pantry storage per square foot are cabinet pantries with roll outs. They store the most per square foot of any space. Separate pantries are great if someone had a lot of small appliances, or lives a long way from the grocery store. Mostly though, they are overrated. They end up costing a lot more and hold less because of the walkways needed inside and the trend towards outfitting them with the same expensive cabinets as the kitchen. It’s the difference between a walk in and reach in closet. The reach in will always be more efficient. If you’re going to do ugly plain wood pantry shelves, and are OK with paying the mortgage for a bedroom just for groceries, still think more to justify that expense. The kitchen is already bloated to begin with. It doesn’t need a bedroom for groceries too.

Theres a dual purpose in the “hidden” that i don’t care to get into but it’s needed. And as far as the pantry, I had a large one before and it’s absolutely dreamy for all the items I don’t want to store in cabinets and for all the large quantities of bulk items I hate going to get. That’s why it’s designed just like we wanted. Again, it’s customized to our specs and no one else’s so what may not make sense to some does to us. Thanks again though as I have gleaned some useful info on some things though and really appreciate those thoughts and perspectives.

To illustrate my suggestion...

This "hides" the pantry and gives you space for some frequently used pantry items in the kitchen itself. I'm having a hard time coming up with any advantage to having to use double doors (cabinet or otherwise) to access a pantry.

@Jslazart, yea I've been so torn about that prep sink but I really think it will be useful and I think located on the corner of the island should keep it tucked away. I really am keen on keeping the hidden pantry too but what a great suggestion to just move the door. And the other comment about where we would eat, BeckySharp, we sit at the bar mainly all the time. We've had a formal dining room and basically hardly used it but when we do have the larger gatherings it's nice to have. How many can I seat comfortably on that size bar? Is the rule 24" or 36"? Thx all!!

@Jslazart... yes I see. Will talk it over with hubby, I like the idea!

Also, cpartist, dining room only used on major holidays 3-4 x's at most a year so no worry.

So if you only use it 3-4x a year, why are you building one in? Wouldn't it make more sense to combine the kitchen/dining into one space with room to expand at holiday times?

I'm in the same boat as you. Mostly I do buffet style parties and with the exception of holidays, we don't sit down to dinner so I have one dining area that is part of my kitchen and can extend into the living area if needed. Why build something that will cost major bucks and only be used 3-4x a year?

Guests will access front door and not garage door so no powder room there to see.

On the small area you showed, it looked like the front entry since it says entry.

As far as pathways,good input. I think I will have to really think my new furniture as to make sure the new stuff isn't overly large and overstuffed to maintain those thoroughfares. It will be mostly just us two at most times but I will really have to plan for furniture so thanks.

Make sure your house has an organizing "spine" to it because when you have an organizing "spine" it helps make it much easier to move about and have good flow throughout. I've been in builder open houses where my friend and I were constantly guessing where to go next and what would be behind door #1.

When a house is laid out well, with rooms only 1-2 rooms deep, one doesn't need to try and figure that out. It seems to lay itself out in an orderly flow.

I'm excited to have kitchen so close to master. Dogs get up early and nice to be so close.

I don't have an issue with it being close to the kitchen. That's personal choice. I have an issue with you having to walk through your work zone to get to the kitchen. That is not so good.

The best homes I've seen with the kitchen near the master either have a path between dining area and kitchen to master or the master is off a separate hallway. In either case one doesn't have to walk through the kitchen to get to the master.

Again this speaks of good flow and natural flow.

The pantry will have a hidden entry (will look like wall cabinetry but will have a concealed door.(look like uppers and lowers but the "cabinet" pulls will open the one large door on either side)

I like a hidden entry but I absolutely would not do a double door entry. And in this case I'm not sure it's the best use of space.

Also, what do think about swapping the fridge and wall oven placement? Since cpartist said its roller skate distance, maybe I should.

Yes that will help but your kitchen will not work for aging in place and that should be a consideration. I realize you're healthy now, but stuff happens.

The best is to have an L shaped perimeter so you can slide your food stuff from sink to cooktop. That's what I did with my perimeter. In fact, I bucked what is commonly done by putting my cleanup sink on the island and my prep sink on the perimeter for just that reason. My Mom had Parkinsons and used a walker. She could easily wash and prep her food stuff and then slide it over to the cooktop because the sink was on the same counter run.

However she needed help for carrying stuff.

Roller skate distance can also indicate a barrier island and/or a kitchen that's overly large. You can have a smaller, efficient kitchen, esp with a large pantry, and you can have a large, inefficient kitchen. My parents had the latter at their retirement home, which influenced us greatly for our new house.

So very true. Do yourself a favor and in your mind try making a meal in that kitchen. You'll quickly see it's very inefficient.

And the other comment about where we would eat, BeckySharp, we sit at the bar mainly all the time.

If you had the dining table as part of the kitchen and not so far away, you'd use it more often. Especially as you age in place you may or may not find the counter height stools harder to maneuver onto. Hence my suggestion that you build the dining room as part of the kitchen.

We've had a formal dining room and basically hardly used it but when we do have the larger gatherings it's nice to have.

So you're willing to spend what is possibly $20k-$30k for a space you'll use 4x a year when as mentioned you can combine the two spaces to make it much more functional for now and the future?

How many can I seat comfortably on that size bar? Is the rule 24" or 36"?

24"

I've been so torn about that prep sink but I really think it will be useful and I think located on the corner of the island should keep it tucked away.

I felt the same way originally, because I wanted a large unimpeded expanse of marble but the prep sink is amazing and makes the kitchen so much more versatile, especially with our young adult kids and their friends, who all like to cook, and when we have parties and large holiday meals.

And the other comment about where we would eat, BeckySharp, we sit at the bar mainly all the time.

As CP mentioned, counter seating gets physically more difficult and uncomfortable as we get older. Bar height even more so.

My kd worked closely with my Amish cabinet co. .Hher firm also sold several other lines including the recently defunct Woodmode, Shiloh, and a couple of others. She was excellent...both with her ideas and her computer skills and was in constant contact with the cabinetmakers. You must have a good kd wether thru a co or independent.

The old kitchen forum here was invaluable as well. If they are still doing critiques. I took several ideas to my kd that she loved and we incorporated.

If you are putting in an ice maker, put it near a water source., preferably in the kitchen. I did this because we drink a lot of water.