You don't want to do it and don't have to do it (caveat in terms of seeing whether your refusal means that you might be liable for water flooding that could have been prevented by the installation.

I would probably put the ball in their court and state that it would require legal paper work in terms of clarifying legal rights to the land - you might need to sell them the portion of the land they are acquiring.

Is there anything you can get out of this which makes it mutually beneficial - i.e. could you require that the fence facing you be attractive.

However, do keep in mind that whatever you do is going to most probably "run with the land" and that any future owners will have rights to it? What about future upkeep of the concrete for example?

Another risk if their fence encroaches on your property line is that it needs repairs in the future, they (or future owners of their property) would have a case for you to contribute to repair costs. They should not build this fence on your property nor should a trench on your property be expected. It should be on their side unless you agree it should be on yours, too. I would consult with a knowledgeable real estate agent or attorney familiar with this type of thing.

We have a fence on our property and our property line extends another 3-4 feet past the fence and we know that the maintenance of the fence is 100% our responsibility.

Good point about the upkeep. If it is on our land at all, would we be jointly responsible for the upkeep?

I don't see how we could be liable for drainage onto their land, if we haven't changed the level of our land since we bought our house. We do have flowerbeds near the property lines now, but it doesn't seem conceivable that we could be flooding their yard just with the amount we are watering it.

If they are preventing water runoff in that area, will that water pool at the retaining wall and damage your perennial bed?

Yes, it is a concern that putting in a retaining wall on their side will flood our beds, at least in some parts. Does anyone think that a French drain installed on their property would be a better solution for their problem. We might offer to help pay for this. I know that building a retaining wall out of poured concrete is quite expensive.

I am only mentioning the issue of liability from water run off because you said that is the reason they are doing this.

If you are preventing them from taking reasonable measures to protect their property, there could theoretically be a duty. On the other hand, as others have pointed out, your neighbors may not be causing water issues on YOUR property by building a retaining structure which impacts the natural flow of water.

I am not saying there is or there isn't.

In terms of most situations, you do not have to permit anyone to build on your land. If you do so, especially with a permanent structure, there is a strong legal argument that this land now belongs to the other person.

Before you move forward with this, I would suggest that you sign a legal agreement determine rights of each party and also consult with an expert in water flow to determine how this will impact your property's water flow

I don't think so. Are they concerned about rain water or irrigation? A french drain or several of them will quickly remove surface water during a downpour but if they are downhill from you gravity is the issue and neither a retaining wall or drains will stop that. Maybe they are planning some kind of planter along the wall? If your beds flood you can install drains on your property.

Your neighbors sound self centered. Just tell them you don’t like the idea. They can do anything on their own property, but not yours.

Lawyer time. Worth a 20 minute consultation.

They are downhill from me, like I am downhill from my neighbor on the other side. I wonder if their neighbor on the other side has a wall that traps water in their yard. At the back of our yards, it seems like a smooth slope, not too steep, from our yard into theirs. At the front of the property, our driveway area is probably 18" higher than their adjacent side yard. It was like this when we bought our house.

It surely is the downpours that flood their yard rather than our watering. I just don't think that the amount we water the beds could flood anyone's yard.

No they can’t period. Waht has been the water issue so far without the concrete dam. Drainage is a more complicated deal than building a dam and IMO if that water now damages your property this is an issue that needs to be discussed and if the fence is his then the footings go on his property 100% The most neighbourly thing would be for you to get some drainge handling on your property to handle your run off.

Many states have laws addressing run off, some don’t. As another poster said, its time to get with a lawyer in your state that knows the answer. Look for an attorney who specializes in property law and water rights.

Pay for a survey, not a lawyer. Based on your survey, paint a bright orange line and tell them they can do as they please on their side.

To clarify, the issue is not your watering as that is unlikely to have significant impact.

The potential issue is runoff from natural sources which are impacted whenever there is a new structure or other change In hardscape or even soft scape.

I am not saying it is or isn’t just that land use issues are potentially complicated Amd wjat you do would have permanent impact in the future.

Your neighbor cannot do anything that will substantially change the flow of water in a way that impacts your property. Period. They would lose that challenge in court. I wouldn't let them do it, because if there's enough stormwater running through the properties that they feel the need to block it, it will drastically change things on your property. And heck no to digging on your property for the footers.

Generally when a neighborhood is put in, there is a grading and drainage plan submitted to the city or county. That's approved and confirmed by the inspectors, and that is what it is. They can't just unilaterally decide to change it. Even if the homes are old enough that there's no plan like that on file, water flows downhill. There is an established path of drainage through the properties that they have to respect.

Seriously, don't budge. I have worked with so many homeowners who wanted to be nice, didn't want to upset anyone, and it's never worth it. The lucky ones spend thousands on drainage solutions to fix a problem that NEVER should have happened. The unlucky ones have to sue their neighbors because of damage from the re-routed stormwater.

I am in Texas where storm run off I think is considered a "common enemy" situation wherein landowners are allowed to do whatever they wish to in order to protect their property, no matter how that impacts neighbors? Do I have that wrong?

You indicated the fence is on the propert line. Why are you not paying 1/2 the cost of the new fence structure? Did you refuse?

They didn't ask me to contribute. They had previously paid for a similar structure on the back of their property and I think are looking to continue it all the way around.

They may be thinking they are doing you a favor. Talk to them about your concerns. A quick check of water and drainage requirements for your specific area would be very helpful. In my areas, i cannot let runoff go onto neighbouring parcels,,, i needed to install a system of drainage pipes.

I think they are thinking they are doing me a favor! They seem like nice folks.

I was thinking they were building a stem wall. So to install that on the property line they would need to dig on both sides of the line but the stem wall and the footings would end at the property line on their property.

What Joseph Corlett said.

This is their wall; it must all be on their property. This isn't about being neighborly; it's about legality, liability, insurance, sale of your home in the future, etc.

Now, if they want to encroach on your land in the process of building a wall that's totally on their property (for, say, concrete forms), that would be neighborly of you, as long as they make your yard whole again at the end of the process.

But--that wall isn't going to accomplish anything. they are downslope from you. The water will just seep under the wall (after ponding on your side for a while). They need drainage; they can't fight physics.

They can't touch your property. Get a surveyor from the county to come and draw a line along the property. They use stakes to show the line of it so you can have a string between them. Anything that is on your property can be taken down without a problem.

Not only would I not allow them to do whatever they wanted on MY property, I would want to be sure that what they are doing was not going to have negative affects on my property. I think an expert needs to be consulted regarding the drainage/run off situation.

Sounds like both you and your neighbors are willing to be good neighbors, that's a good start. By all means talk to them about future rights & responsibilities regarding the fence, to protect both you and them and future homeowners. Many arrangements can work, but understandings should be clear. And possibly in writing if it goes against your local zoning regulations.

You say your perennial bed is relatively new -- so most likely you can dig up your plants and tuck them safely somewhere else for two or three weeks -- if that's how long the disruption lasts (confirm?!).

What I'd be concerned about is -- how high will the replacement fence be, and will it be the same material. Is that okay with you?

Do you think drainage on your side could use improvement? If so, ask to lay a drain system on your side for your benefit while they have the dirt moved.

Let them worry about drainage on their side themselves. I'd be skeptical that a poured wall would change water flow, but that's their problem, not yours and I wouldn't offer them any opinion, positive or negative.

Another thing to think about is that if you ever sell your house and there is this wall that goes on both properties, the buyer might not want to deal with it. I know some people who have the neighbour's driveway going through their property and now they have to find a way to fix that..Neighbours are not always friendly

Just a comment about surveying - a new survey does not a boundary line make. It is more complicated than that.

The county has clear plans of each lot. We knew where the edge of our property was, but when we decided to have a fence installed, we had the county surveyor come and re-confirm it.

There is a legal description of your property in your warranty deed, but if that property line was put in before GPS, etc., a survey done today by modern methods may not "lay over" one done 30 years ago. That's at least one of the problems one can run into when "resurveying", there are more. BTDT. Of course, if everything matches up, the story has an easy ending, but it can be a potential can of very nasty worms.

Water drainage is tricky, I’d be hesitant to agree to any wall with a concrete base without ensuring they’ve had an engineer review drainage impacts. This could have a negat impact on your yard that would be a huge headache to rectify.

You should be able to find your town/village/city’s Rules for building along property lines (setback).

I personally would nicely say that id prefer they didn’t dig up my yard for the fence. We did something similar for our neighbors because they were nice; then they sold the house and the new neighbors are a total nightmar.e. im Not sure how large your lots are, but they’re getting a couple extra feet of yard width by ”sharing” the wall with you. What benefit are you getting out of it?

Go to your local building or planning department and ask what codes apply to boundary fences and walls and to drainage and runoff. You should get the answer you're looking for for at no cost and help with enforcing your rights.

I'd be wary of this, very wary. My first concern would be for property rights, but my other would be how the concrete fence might effect drainage on your own property. When obstructed, water will find a place to flow, and you don't want it to be into your basement.

Some jackleg homeowner planned cement block retaining wall has huge liability issues. The rule of thumb is that they have to tie it into the hill for as high as the wall is. If the wall is planned to be about 48” it needs to be excavated about the same to tie in reinforcement and drainage. It doesn’t sound like that’s even being thought about correctly, much less being done correctly.

Where I live you can't even build a fence on the property line. Set back ordinances mandate a fence to be a foot and a half away from the property line and on your own property. Do not let them put anything, even below soil footings on your property. There is a time to be friendly and and a time when you must protect the money you have put into your home.

I agree with Kit. Your town or county should have rules/codes regarding this. I would hope that people cannot just Willy/nilly erect a fence without permission or planning.

Well, here are the laws in my state: https://www.hop-law.com/has-a-neighbor-changed-the-flow-of-storm-water-onto-your-property-know-your-rights/ . It looks like my neighbor is not legally entitled to do something that would result in my property flooding, even if they confine the changes to their own property.

Some interesting info here...Texas.
https://silblawfirm.com/real-estate-law/the-common-enemy-doctrine-in-texas/

R.H. I'm confused why you would be OK with your neighbor imposing a structure on your property. You shouldn't have to worry about your garden, and all the work you put in, because your neighbor wants to protect their land.

If you don't already have a copy of your property plans you might want to get one from the City, and politely walk over and show your neighbors a copy, letting them know that you just want to ensure that the concrete, on which they are going to build a fence on, is sitting on theirs.

We have a drainage problem on both sides of our property as the city let each of my neighbors build up their property to accommodate a pool for one and a higher basement for the other (42 years ago). Unfortunately, it has been up to me to solve the issue. We are about to put in a french drain running 100 feet at a cost of $2400 (did the other side a few years back).

Agree that a survey is important here, but give your township or city office a call, they may have one on record. In my town there is a grading inspector and he was kind enough to come out to talk to me.

I read once that if an encroachment occurs on a property and no one questioned it, it could be considered "permission". Not sure if this is true of not.

Good luck.

What if you go to sell your home and a buyer needs a mortgage? There is a good chance banks will not lend $ without a survey and your compromised lot line could impact a bank's decision. You need a lawyer - now. If you don't want to go that route please sit down with your neighbor and explain your concerns. If they move the fence extirely to their property, as they should, there would be no issues.

If the water flow from your property is not a “natural flow” of surface water ( e.g. it’s coming out of downspouts from your roof) then it is your responsability to keep that water from damaging your neighbors property.

Everyone has been so wonderful to comment and point out important considerations. Thank you so much!

Just one last question if anyone has any comments: My driveway is higher than my neighbor's yard that runs alongside it. I don't know when or how it got that way. It was like that when we bought the house. Does this obligate me legally or morally to install drainage in my yard on our side? Again our property uphill from theirs generally. The drop off is maybe 18 inches to 2 ft.

We are installing a french drain on our lot due to the fact that my neighbor's drive is higher than our adjoining lawn. The property line is basically the driveway. I would have never thought of asking him to correct as he didn't create the problem from 1979. Now if he had built a brand new driveway but higher or put in a fence that caused an issue, I might think to ask him to remedy. I don't think you are responsible here.

The situation scares me and makes me thankful for having acreage.

It's not your responsibility to fix someone else's drainage problem. When they bought the property, they knew what the problems were. Also, they cannot touch your property in order to fix their problem. There are all kinds of ways to fix drainage. We have parts of the yard that were wet for a long time after heavy rains even though the grading was done well..we added some pipe with holes that allows water to go in and then being brought towards the back..I hope your neighbour is being reasonable and fixes his problem the right way

The comments here are very interesting, but there is not a lot of actual good advice.

I built a concrete fence last year on the property line, so i actually do know the legal ins and outs about it. By-law officers showed up many times to check on things during construction.

The first thing to note that is very important is that the neighbor building the fence, can apply to the city for a "right of access" permit at which point these is nothing that you can do to stop them accessing your property, depending on the city it usually costs about $250.

these permits are very common and are normally issued for construction and maintenance purposes.

however, that simply gives them the allowance to access a per-determined part your property and other specified things, like: to dig the trench.

it does not allow ANY of the concrete to be on your property. the concrete can touch the property line, but cannot go over it.

legally when completed they have to return your property to a similar or better state to how they found it,

That's the Law. However, the real world is far more messy.

There are a few things to consider here,

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The first to consider is the concrete footers, they are generally 5 feet below ground (where it freezes) and are needed to stabilize the concrete above them, they usually stick out 6 inches on both sides

Now your can definitely stop them from putting any footers onto your side. BUT not having footers on your side can over time destabilize the wall, and make it move / lean / fall over / etc..

in the direction of the missing footer. remember ground is not rock, and it moves and shifts with time.

So even knowing that you can stop the footer from being on your side of the property line, there is a very big question about what to do 5 years later when it starts shifting / leaning much more into your property... Personally i recommend,

Negotiate! there are things that you can get out of this.

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Next is Fit and Finnish, the concrete that sticks out of the ground should be rendered to make it look nice. this will cost money, and so long as your neighbor doesn't do it on his side in the first month of two, he legally doesn't have to do it to your side, at all.

this is considered the equivalent to him painting his side of the fence.

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Next is drainage, any concrete structure should be surrounded by a drainage pipe to help move water around the structure and stop water pressure underground from pushing on the structure causing it to move / fail.

Again this will cost money, and legally does NOT have to be done.

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In Conclusion :

obviously your neighbor can simply use the right of access permit like a big club to get what he wants.

but at the end of the day, your neighbor will want you to be happy with the end results to avoid future problems.

so Negotiate!

let him build his concrete foundation, AND have the footers on your side underground.

BUT mandate that he has to have your side nicely rendered, and place a drainage pipe on your side to make sure water will properly drain around this structure.

ALSO mandate that you get to pick the look of the fence to sit above this concrete foundation.

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The last thing anyone want to to have to fight about how to fix anything in 5 to 10 years

Here is a picture of my steal reinforced concrete fence. (it looks the same on all sides)

(capping stones are waiting to go on the top, Covid-19 has delayed getting them on for months.)

"Here is a picture of my steal reinforced concrete fence. (it looks the same on all sides)"

Which part did you steal? ;-)

It’s an old thread....

With those massive walls the setting does suggest something like a prison.