Hi Cat,

So the normal sequence is:

1. Test water so you know exactly what you are trying to fix

2. Spec water treatment that will fix it (note, not talking about brand here - we are talking what type of unit )

3. shop for price / quality / service

4. install the chosen treatment

5. If you can, re-test water again to be sure it's doing what you needed.

You don't want to jump to step 3 -- which is what happens often.

Can you tell me anything about your water (hardness, ph, Iron, municipal or well)?

-How did the hard water "wreck your copper pipes"?

-what kind of stains is it leaving (Iron, calcium, blue-green color)?

We've lived in the house for 30 years - we bought it from the builder when it was 1 year old, so we're pretty clear on its history. This January, a day or two after New Years, we sprang a rain storm from the basement ceiling Cursory examination showed that a good deal of the copper piping had turned green (rotted) and some of it had finally given way - sure signs of hard water. There are multiple other manifestations. The mess - FORTUNATELY - coincided with a complete kitchen redo (the 'rain storm in the basement' occurred roughly 4 days before the start of the redo), so the walls were already being torn apart - thankfully. Pulling out the walls revealed copper piping in horrifically bad shape. If something other than hard water did this, it's hard to determine what that would be. We opted to pull it all out (it needed to be pulled out) and replace it - aided by the fact that the walls were open anyway, laying bare the poor shape the pipes were in). The kitchen features that were removed (e.g. faucets) were also badly corroded. So the presumed hard water wrecked the pipes by seriously corroding the copper damaging other parts of the system and discoloring tiles in the showers (calcium, iron). I have not tested the water. That's next. Our water is municipal, not well, and is "known" to be hard. We no longer have any copper pipes - so I'm not trying to fix that. I'm trying to protect the *new* kitchen features from being damaged and to limit the damage in the existing bathrooms to what has already occurred. I don't have precise statistics on the mineral composition of the water.

It's good information to determine what we are trying to fix. Honestly, other than "the hard water that did all this" I don't know very much. I'm invested in making sure no such disaster occurs to any plumbing features in this house ever again (at least while we live there). Other than that, I'm woefully uninformed - hence this thread.

Hey Cat,

Can you link to your water supplier's water quality report - it will have much of the information we are looking for. You can usually find it by googling the name of your water supplier + water quality report.

If you read my other posts about water softeners, you will know that I like the units you can get from Amazon for about $600 for a nice unit with a Fleck control valve and 10% cross-linked resin. That said, let's not get ahead of things. Post the link to your water quality report when you find it.

Okay - we live in Bridgewater, NJ and our water company is New Jersey American Water. The closest I could get to the actual specs are here: http://www.amwater.com/ccr/raritan.pdf

This report covers quite a wide area.

A breakout interpretive summary for my town is here: http://www.amwater.com/twq/raritanbridgewater_twq.pdf

I'm looking into water softeners and would appreciate your opinion on these estimates I've recieved. I have a newly built home for 2 people, and am on a community well with 30gpg hardness

The first quote is expensive. They are charging $2730 for a 1.5 cf softener and resin. A good quality unit is available online from Amazon for under $800 with 10% crosslinked resin and an industry standard Fleck 5600SXT digital control head. Even if they marked that up 100% it would still only be $1600, not $2730. I also think that a 1.5 cf softener is just a little small.

Here's the math:

2 people x 70 gal a day x 30 grains per gal = 4200 grains per day

1 cf softener at 10 lbs of salt per cf = 25,000 grains x 1.5 cf = 37,500 grains - a 10% safety factor and you are left with 33,750 grains. You would be regenerating every 33750/4200 = 8 days and using 15 pounds of salt per regeneration. That's reasonable unless you add another person/guest.

I would size it to be from 7-14 days between regeneration.

A 2.0 cf unit would be 50,000 grain capacity at 10 lbs of salt per cf - 10% safety factor would be 45,000. You would be regenerating every 45,000 / 4200 = 11 days. If you had guests, it would happen sooner - but gives you more of a cushion. A 2 cf unit on Amazon is $800 - so only about $25 difference. Again, I would expect a significant markup from your plumber - even 100% - but that's still $1600 - not $2730

So that you understand - when water softeners are advertised, they assume a crazy amount of salt per cu ft of resin - 15 lbs. So, a 1 cu f is a 30k grain softener, a 1.5 cu f is a 48k grain softener and a 2 cu ft is a 60k grain softener. BUT using 15lbs of salt per cu ft is a stupid amount of salt. Size the unit at 10lbs of salt per cu ft and use the chart in the link above.

The second quote is just nonsense. It's not telling you anything helpful - like how large the unit is (in grains, or in cf) It suggests possibly a combined media of carbon and a water softener - which isn't something you want to do. If you are going to soften your water AND carbon filter it, those should be two different units.

Thank you so much for the information @Jake The Wonderdog! If I were to buy my own water softener (the one you linked on Amazon), can it be installed by my husband who has basic construction and plumbing experience? Or would I still need to hire a plumber for the install? We already have a soft water loop in place (Pic attached)

I think you can handle it just fine.

The part that's a little odd is programming the control, but there are plenty of online instructions and videos.

You can plumb it with flex lines - like the filter that's there - and that cuts down on the fittings and such.

I do recommend that you get the Hach test kit - so you know exactly how much hardness you have. You can also test again after it's connected to prove that it's working.

Here's the link to the slightly larger one that I recommend. It will give you ~11 days between regenerations.

Ok great, thank you @Jake The Wonderdog for all of this information, it has been very helpful!