I would like to see the actual place all those drwaings are not giving me any idea of the space.

Here you go!

Back of the house from the playset

Looking towards the corner I was thinking of moving the playset to. Currently the back legs of the playset are on the lot line.

This is measured out 4' from the steps.

Now that I've marked it out it seems a bit small, the playset is still back on the lot line though. If we didn't need timbers and mulch around the playset I could keep it where it is. I called the HOA and they will not allow even one timber back on that common area.

I hope these help. If there is another angle you need let me know.

I think that looks lovely and is similar to my original plan back when I was designing the porch and deck. But it was recommended to me that I not make the area under the windows an in ground planter due to potential water damning issues.

As you have it drawn the patio comes out to about 18’?

If I run the hardscape all the way to the house and use planters along those windows, would you keep the same simple shape? Make is smaller?

What about putting your fire pit as a "destination" at the far side of your yard, near the woods. That looks like a lovely area and if it were me, I'd like to have a place to sit close to it. It also looks like you have some nice shade there which would be very welcoming on a hot day.

I'd bring the play area closer to the house. Kids like to play close to the adults, and it would be easier to keep an eye on them.

What type of fence will you be adding? A tall privacy fence all around, or...?

I like the idea of the plantings close to the house. Your yard is lacking in trees and your plan should include them. Maybe one that is planted on the west side of your deck or new patio, so it would provide welcome shade at the hottest part of the day? Where is north on your lot?

Pitch the patio properly and don't make the plant bed a foot lower than the patio and you shouldn't have water issues w/ a planting bed against the house. Pour the patio right up to the house and 1) it's space that doesn't get used bc no one wants to sit there and 2) if you need to access the exterior wall of the basement at some point you're hosed. We've had to do major work on homes where the patio was poured up to the house and, because the patio was either pitched wrong or it settled, water found its way into the gap between slab and home and caused big problems.

Have you considered a broom finished concrete patio but with a natural stone or brick border? We've done that in a few cases where the budget was tight. I think it looks 1000x better than stamped concrete.

Partim - I didn't really think about putting the fire pit area out that far. I think it's a good option though.

What direction would you orient the play equipment if I bring it forward into the yard?

The HOA only allows a 4ft 3 rail split rail fence. I'm adding it so that I have something to plant privacy plantings and trees along.

My plan was to plant a tree at the corner of the deck and then another at the other end of the patio.

Our house it faces North, almost exactly. So the patio will be getting south sun and the entire side of the porch gets west sun. I have someone coming over to help with roller shades for the porch tomorrow.

Revolutionary Gardens - I was looking at exactly that last night, the brushed concrete with border. And I agree entirely, it's a much nicer look. I think it will also provide a more level surface for furniture and will be less slippery for the kids.

And thank you for telling me about the potential for water issues even if it's poured to the foundation. I think I will revisit the planting area in that spot. The sump pump pipe comes out in that area and I don't love the idea of having that encased in concrete. My original plan was to have the planter come out 4', which is the depth of the areaway landing. Does that give enough space? Too much?

Any thoughts on overall shape?

And any suggestions for the play equipment?

As I look at photos of patios, 99% of them have the concrete running to the foundation. Which is more likely to cause water issues? A planter or a crack in the patio?

Our old house flooded and my husband is super freaked about water coming into the basement now. I'm tasked with designing the patio though and I want to make sure that whatever I do, we won't have to worry about water in that basement room.

Sorry, thoughts are popping into my head and I figured I should just type them out :)

What if we left that space open as a planter but filled it with pea gravel and then placed planters, maybe large galvanized bins, in that spot. I could maybe plant some tomatoes and herbs there?

@VaLady the short answer is "it depends". Your house looks newer, so we'll assume the foundation walls are in good shape and properly waterproofed. So it depends on what your soil is like, how they grade that bed, how they pitch the patio, etc. We just about never take the patio up to the house (except for where you come out of the house), we always leave a planting bed, and we don't see any problems from it. If you like scrubbing the stains left by leaves sitting in the corner over the winter you'll love having a patio right up against the foundation.

I think that if you're worried about water intrusion, piping the sump pump outflow and the downspouts under the patio and out to the yard is one of the big steps you can/should take. We've had situations where we've needed to put a box drain in a planting bed and pipe that out, but it's hard to know if that's needed without seeing the site. Generally it's not.

4 ft is about a minimum for a plant bed. 5 ft's my minimum, 6 is better. But it all depends on what you plan to plant there. No one ever says "oh no, my hydrangea ISN'T sprawling all over my patio" but I do spend a lot of time cursing the lineage of the patio guy who left me 21 inches to work with.

If we're being honest, the pea gravel idea sounds kinda blah looking, and I don't see how that solves an issue. But if you want galvanized bins, come to Culpeper and I'll sell you mine for $10/ea :)

Revolutionary Gardens - I'd invite you to King George to give me a quote but, from the looks of your portfolio I might be priced out! ;)

I will work on designs that do not run the patio to the house wall. As soon as I read, "If you like scrubbing the stains left by leaves sitting in the corner over the winter you'll love having a patio right up against the foundation" I knew that was no longer an option for me!

We've already had the cheap corrugated plastic sump pump pipe (that they ran all of 8ft from the house) replaced with pvc piping that now drains out to the side of the yard. The downspouts will run under the patio as well no matter the design.

I understand your reasoning on the flower bed size. I just don't love the idea of it extending past that areaway. Hopefully 4ft will be enough for whatever I plan to plant there.

The only issue the pea gravel solves in that spot is that my construction/truck obsessed toddler won't have any dirt to spread all over the patio! I just thought it would keep water from being trapped against the foundation wall and give me place to put some raised planters.

And if I had a pick-up I would definitely snag a bin or two from you!

Aw, Landscape Dawg #1 is from King George! They found her and one of her puppies living in the landfill. She's a spoiled little brat now though.

We're actually really reasonable for the quality of work we do, but there are people who are way more competitive than us when it comes to concrete. Haijoe Stamped Concrete seems to do nice work, and I like Elder - he really hustles. Happy to chat with you for the plantings though! If you're doing the plants yourself, we have an online garden center with free local delivery (and it would get the metal stock tanks out of my yard so win-win) :)

Trust me when I say that pea gravel + a toddler who likes playing outside = pea gravel flung EVERYWHERE. We've found that when designing a public or private space where there will be kids, anything smaller than a cantaloupe has a high likelihood of getting thrown around.

In all cases whether it is lawn, planting bed or paved surface, grade needs to slope downward as it traverses away from the house walls, and that is the number one way water is carried away from house walls. As Rev points out, there will be no problem with a planting bed next to the foundation so long as the patio is not placed higher, so as to trap water.

"I just don't love the idea of it extending past that areaway. Hopefully 4ft will be enough for whatever I plan to plant there." It's hard to be certain what you you are calling the "areaway" and why it would determine this dimension. The logical place to create a patio boundary is somewhere near the vicinity of the bottom step. As 4' is usually not enough, I question why anyone would not want to make it larger if they have the opportunity, ability, it costs no more and the plants will look better and be happier. Maybe I'm missing something in your argument ...?

I think the best patio shape will be the most simple, logical one that fulfills the goals. The size will depend on your needs. Decide on the approximate square footage you need. You already have a general length. The square footage divided by that would give you the general width. Then, play with the detail variables.

Hopefully this will give you some food for thought. Your goals are:

1. I don't want anything super big or that puts me out on display in the middle of my yard. Privacy is a concern.

2. make a connection between the deck steps and the basement areaway. That could be a simple as a pathway. But if you fill the space with toddler toys, fire pit, and the chairs around it, you need the space to be even bigger

3. The actual patio space will be used for some of my toddler's toys, Will this be a toy box? or storage for tricycles etc?

4. possibly the grill (it's currently on the deck), and for Since the grill will be used often in the late afternoon, and you have the west sun heating things up, the deck must be a really hot spot to grill currently. Could you locate the grill in a shadier part of the yard?

5. either a propane or wood fire pit with chairs around it, the fire pit will not be built in. You should have the fire pit at least 10-15 ft away from the house. And you 'll need some substantial space around it for chairs. You don't want to be too close to it. You said you don't want anything super big but you'll be surprised how much space you need outdoors to feel comfortable next to a fire pit.

Here's something to think about.

Gray is the paving, dark green is planting beds (some of which will have tall shrub and trees) and the pale green is grass. This plan will give you a good size patio for your fire pit, and you can even put the grill there if that area is shady at grill-times. The play area is nice and close to the house for supervision. The large area of paving is perfect for tricycle play, and the 2 areas of grass can still be used for things like ball games since there are no planting beds separating them. The view of the patio and fire pit draws the eye to the back of your property, making it seem larger and an inviting destination.

If you put in your 5 ft planting beds along the property line that will define them adequately, with no need for the rail fence. Big shrubs along the property line will give you privacy. Hydrangeas are one example of a shrub that grows well and blooms in shade, and comes in every height from a foot to 15 feet. The large pannicle hydrangeas such as Limelight fill a lot of space, cutting down on the costs of planting such large beds, since you only need a few.

Because the paving hooks up all the areas you want to use, the backyard is usable even when the grass is wet or muddy in early spring. The paving could be done in stages as the budget allows. I think a simple paving would look best with such a large area - no need for borders or stamping. The shape is what gives it interest.

Areas between houses and beside your morning room and deck are hard to grow grass because of the shade, and this plan will, I think, keep the grass in the sunny areas where it will grow well even when it gets hard use as a play area. Grass in shady areas is much more fragile.

Hope you can use some of these ideas!