Can you post a floor plan and/or photographs?

It's impossible to respond without visual information.

I don't have an open floorplan, but our 48" range and 54" hood is not centered with the island. On paper I was a little concerned, but its a non issue in actual 3D space. There is a full wall of appliances behind the island, its not really lined up with them either and is positioned to get proper clearances. It looks fine despite my callous disregard for symmetry.

If you post a floorplan of yours that would help.

I'm at my wits end with this floor plan, I don't think I can mentally take the abuse right now. I have an open beverage station and pantry behind the kitchen which is causing the issue but I am not budging on the beverage station, it's the only thing left that I am excited about in the build as silly as it may seem to most.

Here's the kitchen plan as of now.

I am also building a house where the range is not centered to the island. It will be fine. Not everything has to be in symmetry. I am going to hang 3 pendants over my island which will help separate the two.

I don't think the island off center to the hood is an issue for your kitchen. Did you consider centering the sink?

Our range was not centered with our island in our last house. Absolutely a non-issue the 11 years we lived there. I never thought about it. Our setup was almost exactly like Nikki Lee's 2nd picture above.

Honestly, we haven't considered much of anything yet with the things that can be easily changed. But yes, will definitely plan on centering the sink and probably flip the dishwasher too.

Its not the appliances that are a problem, its the pantry door that interrupts the counter. The designer needs to try harder. To help you we would need to see more of the plan.

The opening into the butler's pantry is indeed a little awkward. It makes it hard to tell where the kitchen ends and the dining room starts. Other than that, everything else look fine to me. The asymmetry wouldn't bother me one bit. Not everything needs to be 100% symmetric.

My only other nitpick is the interior door inside of the pantry. That space is already confined as is. The door takes away a lot of additional space. Maybe check if it can be converted into a pocket door. Or if that's not possible, consider getting rid of it completely.

I've been in a lot of places where the range wasn't centered with the island. That's fine, and you really do want counter space on both sides of the range for food prep.

Yes, it is the pantry door opening that is the problem. Everyone would just like me to put it at the other end. But I want it next to the screened in porch for the pass thru. I would like the opening where the current serving bar is in the screened in porch to separate the kitchen and dining space. Apparently that isn't possible. This current revision he pushed the porch back 3ft and made the pantry 3ft larger, still didn't help with the opening.

I love the passthru!!

What about changing things around like so:

- Pantry is slightly more narrow but is much longer so no real loss of storage

- Outdoor serving area is directly connected to kitchen - allowing for easy movement of drinks/food/etc

- Stove and hood can be centered on the back wall

- ~12" of overhang if you want to put stools... although the dining table is right there

- If you go full depth fridge, you could use some of the pantry space to tuck the fridge in so it is counter depth

I think a lot of things sound good in theory but rarely get used, like a pass thru into the pantry to the porch. I would consider putting a beverage refrigerator outside under your serving counter for even easier access. The proximity of the porch door into the kitchen makes it just as easy to carry plates, etc. into the kitchen through the door instead of through the passthru, which would be awkward to put a plate in through the window and then onto the countertop below the window.

I like mamagoose's option. I would utilize hidden pantry doors so that it looks like your cabinets go all the way around. We had that in our last house and I LOVED it.

No point in having the fridge turn the corner, just add's hard to access and expensive storage.

You pantry is large enough you won't miss the space.

This allows you to shift island down out of the dining room and center the range on the back wall

Wow! Thank you so much to everyone for all the extremely useful and helpful suggestions! I should have posted this months ago and saved myself hours of frustration. So many great layouts to really think about!

Mamagoose-I really like that layout and initially thought I would have something like that. But then hated to have all that space hidden and only to be used by myself. I would love to take M's suggestion and remove the door but I wouldn't want to show off my pantry from the screened in porch. As much as I would like to think it will look like the walk in/butler's pantry from the magazines, it won't. That's why I love the idea of a beverage station that will look nice and pretty and then a door to shut the majority of the not so pretty items.

damarian- I like that layout as well, makes perfect sense, that actually is very similar to my current layout. I just have always wanted an island, as well as having it open from kitchen to dining area although it wouldn't be a deal breaker, just nice not having to walk around the counter space to reach the dining table. I also picture doing the dishes, prepping food while watching the family in the living room. I know, minor things like turning my head vs looking up shouldn't matter but it just kind of does to me.

shead- Trust me, I keep hearing that. And I cant say I completely disagree, it is just something different and neat that I was really excited about. Keeping the drinks and possibly dessert section back there when entertaining. The kids are very excited to play drive thru/waitress/bartender(with juice...hopefully). How often will the pass thru be used, probably not a huge amount, but it will definitely get used. But I have lost most of the things I was excited about in this build, I am really hoping to keep this one as silly as it may be.

Sativa McGee Designs-Wow, I love that!! I was never crazy about the fridge placement either. My only concern would be with the island not being centered with the great room, would that look odd? Or maybe I have a thing with symmetry lol. I think I would miss a little of the cabinet space so maybe if I put an area in the corner where the current entrance is instead of having the wide opening. Which I do like as well.

Again, thank you to everyone for your thoughts and suggestions I appreciate it more than you know!

but·ler's pan·try

noun

1. a small service and storage room between a kitchen and a dining room.

Yes, Mark, I'm aware. I just wanted to bait you in on the thread.

I would get rid of the doorway to the hall, that is adjacent to the fridge. It's only a couple of feet farther to walk into the kitchen with groceries, and the kitchen could use the wall space. A doorway right next to such a huge opening seems kind of redundant. I'd also give up the pantry. I'd push back into the pantry space like what damiarain drew above. I'd make a big "L" shaped kitchen then, with a large island. Along the wall parallel to the hallway, I'd run a whole wall of tall pantry cabinets and the fridge. The range & hood can then be centered with the island. The beverage center can move either into the island, on the side facing the dining room, or it could be put in between the kitchen and dining room, right along that little bit of wall by the sliding doors, either perpendicular as a small peninsula, or just right along that wall so that it doesn't stick out very far. That location would be a lot more convenient for parties, and it's more convenient to the outside, than having to go back into the butler's pantry. I hope you can get the gist of what I'm suggesting, as I don't know how to draw on your floor plans like the others have done.

My other suggestion has nothing to do with the layout, but your kitchen aisles are wide enough that you could make extra deep counters, like 27" rather than 24". I've made that a priority in the two kitchen renos I have done and would have a hard time giving up that extra space. That said, I like a utensil jar and knife block on the counter, as well as toaster oven and electric tea kettle. So the ability to shove those back and still have a lot of counter space in front of them is very very nice.

How will this not-a-butler's-pantry be used? Is it a staging area for food to be passed out to the porch when entertaining?

You have very limited counter space in this kitchen. Perhaps you do very little baking - it's what needs a lot of counte rspace. Perhaps you rarely entertain - that needs counter space at which multiple cooks can work.

I was just talking today to a friend who lives in the NJ suburbs of NYC. Her husband works for a major news network and was telling her that they had recently done a feature on how the open concept kitchen fad is beginning to die as people are realizing that a kitchen at the end of their LR is not the greatest idea for a multitude of reasons. I can only hope!

Correct me if I'm wrong but I read the aisle width between sink and stove to be 3'6"..probably not including countertop overhang. Not a large enough aisle width.

Blubird, I saw 5' 6" which I thought was crazy wide. So if the layout changes there might be room for the extra depth, but looks like not as it stands.

Food for thought:

Thank you everyone, again so much helpful information.

golden_gardens- Yes, I completely follow the layout you are suggesting. It is something I will definitely discuss with my husband this evening.

Bluebird- Yes, it is 3'6". That didn't even cross my mind, but 3'6 seems too tight?

Anglophilia-The not-a-butler's pantry will be used as a staging area and pass out drinks, ice, condiments to the porch area when entertaining. Even if not as a pass thru, I like the thought of a special dedicated area for drinks and what not. I know it's not practical, it is just something I thought was a little different and a neat space to have. Spending all of this time and money on a house, I just wanted one thing that was a little different that I would also use. I even thought about extending it a little, making it open under counter next to the fridge, for an extra homework spot if need be. Seems like it is won't pan out anyways.

Mark- Wow! You may have actually changed my very stubborn mind on my not-a-butler's pantry area. Tears will still be shed for my very last "want" being cut, but I do really like that layout! Actually it is very close to the original layout, hallway closet and all, except the beverage station was a walk through from hallway to kitchen. As a thank you I might post my entire plan...I just need to buy more wine first.

Just curious...your pantry appears larger than your actual kitchen. Does that seem odd to you?

Yes, Mark, Yes!!!

Virgil- Yep.

Is that little random corner wall, load bearing? Could you open it up with just a large pillar/post??

Then it would be open to all the areas.

I like the door in the "bottom" corner. The pass thru sort of loses it's purpose if the door is right next to the other door. You'd just walk out the door instead of walking in the pantry to pass thru. This way you can pass thru stuff from outside and get it later. :)

I am assuming that wall is loading bearing, I was planning on asking my husband that tonight. It bothers me too.

I completely agree with what you are saying, but I like the idea of the kids or whomever sitting at the counter in the porch, having the window open and being able to communicate while I am making drinks or even in the kitchen. I don't want to showcase my whole entire pantry to the porch area. It won't be pretty behind the doors. I like the beverage station with nice cabinetry and countertop and the door behind to close off the pantry mess. But it is still definitely in consideration redoing it that way.

If you are set on having easy access to the pass-through to the porch, I like damiarain's suggestion, although I'd move the sink to the right, to leave space for wider dish drawers to the left of the DW. Then move the window as far as possible to the left (from inside vantage). I think that will function well for what you want from the beverage center, but aesthetically, I like the island parallel to the back wall, with the hood centered.

Has anybody pointed out the fact that food does not taste as good in kitchens where the Range Hood not centered with the island??

Has anybody pointed out the fact that food does not taste as good in kitchens where the Range Hood not centered with the island??

So you DO get it!

Unfortunately that is a 18th century myth that has been disproven countless number of times.

Probably has something to do with the chef refusing to cook any food in her awkward looking kitchen. Take out I'm sure will taste the same.

Someone else mentioned removing the 3/0 opening into the kitchen. That was also the first thing I thought. If you are going to have an opening into the kitchen from that hallway, then place it closer to the garage entry and not all the way to the left, next to another opening.

"...Has anybody pointed out the fact that food does not taste as good in kitchens where the Range Hood not centered with the island??..."

Sound advice. Clearly, this house design needs to be immediately scrapped and a new design created where the entire house is centered on the range hood. Food will be so yummy, clothes will never get dirty and the cat will be super happy...!

chispa-I was literally penciling that option in as you were typing it. I completely agree. The only issue is the powder room on the other side of the hallway where new opening would be, but hopefully that'll be an easy fix. Thank you!

Sound advice. Clearly, this house design needs to be immediately scrapped and a new design created where the entire house is centered on the range hood. Food will be so yummy, clothes will never get dirty and the cat will be super happy...!

That's a bit of a stretch...I'm allergic to cats. And the only way the clothes would never get dirty is if I can get my not-a-butlers-pantry beverage station tucked in a special place with a pass through to the porch. Then every meal will be perfection, the drinks will be served with flair, the kids will be mindful angels, and I just tug my left ear and the house becomes spotless.

^^^ seems legit! :)

"...I can get my not-a-butlers-pantry beverage station tucked in a special place..."

Absolutely! It's amazing what happens after the second glass of wine...

All right, Virgil, it's settled. Tonight I will get drunk on wine and redesign my house plan. I'm basically an architect anyways, I look at Pinterest and Houzz all the time. I'll turn on HGTV too, it might give me some other cool ideas to incorporate in the plan. This is going to be awesome...

Tears will still be shed for my very last "want" being cut, but I do really like that layout!

As a thank you I might post my entire plan...I just need to buy more wine first.

Go with Mark's kitchen plan, buy the wine, summon your courage, and post the full plan, along with a list of the other wants that got cut. Maybe someone will be able to find a way to get one (or more!) of them back for you.

bsds71 - you have an awesome attitude for someone that claims to be not be able to take the abuse! No advice, cuz I haven't watched enough HGTV or posted here enough, but your new kitchen with pass through will be GREAT! You then just need to teach your kids how to mix up a nice martini or margarita and you can be the customer on the screened porch side!

It is a beautiful kitchen;) I think the hood/range off center of the island is not an issue. It will be fine.

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