South Georgia here. Some extra peat for water retention is a good thing. Partially composted pine bark would be great.

Thank you! The big problem, for me, is the ratios. How much pine bark, peat, perlite, etc. From what I understand, Repti Bark can be used in the 5-1-1, but I dont know how to modify it to adjust to my climate.

Any South Floridians in zone 10a or 10b, using 5-1-1 mix for outdoor container grown trees? If so, what modifications, if any, did you make?

If possible I would modify by planting in ground.

Steve

In ground would be best, but I'd add an additional part of peat if in pots. something like 5-2-1, or 4-2-1.....bark to peat to perlite. Just monitor the dampness of the mix, and water when necessary.

I mix up the peat and bark by eyeballing it. I want a little bit more peat than the bark because it's going to be so well draining. Make a small batch of it to see how it's suppose to be first. Then you can decide you want to change it.

I have seen posts about people who use the Repti Bark for the pine bark portion of the 5-1-1 mix. I just want to confirm that it is definitely the right size. It appears to be 1/2 inch, not the 1/4 inch I see mentioned.

Up to 1/2" is ok. It's expensive though, and there are not many small particles, so you will need to add enough peat for water retention. I haven't used Repti Bark, but plenty of folks have, and it's fine to use. I mentioned in your other thread about searching for bags of pine bark. Have you checked all the stores, and garden centers/nurseries? Mulch suppliers? Not sure where in FL you are located, but Florida is a pine state, and you should be able to find it. I know there is plenty of it in northern Florida.

Look at Lowes or Home Depot and see if they have mini pine bark nuggets. I purchased some from Walmart and it's probably about an inch at the most and it works fine for me.

re Away changing mulch formula: it depends on where you are located.

I haven't heard of anyone using mini pine bark nuggets in a 511 mix, but there's always a first. If you used Repti Bark, peat, and perlite at a 1-1-1 ratio, you should be fine.

PIne bark is not easy to come by where I live :-) I use orchid bark, generally what is labed as "fine" or "seedling" orchid bark and is right around 1/4-3/8".

And if you do it gently and repot promptly, removing the soil around the plant roots should not shock or stress them. It is actually recommended to do the same thing for woody plants you plant in the ground! I find it is easiest if you gently shake off as much as you can and then swish the rootball around in a big bucket of water (or your wheelbarrow) until the soils falls off and the rootball loosens up.

And yes, this practice is highly recommended!

Thank you, Garden Gal! Could you please let me know where you get the orchid bark and what brand you get. All the orchid bark I've seen is definitely bigger that 3/8 " You must buy it in large quantities if you're using it for trees!

It's carried at my local nursery but it is not a national brand. Home Depot carries 2cf bags of orchid seedling bark. You should be able to locate that :-)

And I only resort to the orchid bark when I can't find Doug fir bark (the common western replacement for pine bark) of the appropriate size locally :-) It's kinda pricey!

jnmnhughes I think there is too much emphasis placed on size of bark. 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", that is so tiny in comparison to the size of trees and pots I have. My trees are over 5' tall and half are in 20" pots. If you have small trees in 1 gallon pots, I can see the need for smaller pieces. As the tree gets into larger pots like 3 gallons or more, larger pieces like 1" wouldn't hurt. I think anything over 1" may be too big though. Use what you can find locally. Don't worry about the exact size. My comments are based on the way I make up on my own mix which is not 5-1-1. It's closer to 50/40 pine bark and potting mix with extra perlite. Even then I don't measure either. Do keep in mind that the smaller the pieces, the quicker they break down and you will have to refresh the soil sooner. I made my own mix as I described last year and the trees came through the winter wonderfully in a north facing sunroom with minimum heat and virtually no sunlight. I really kept my watering down to a minimum this winter too.

From what I have seen locally, pine mulch is just shredded pieces of wood. It reminds me of pulled pork or chicken because the pieces are long strips. What you want would be labled as nuggets as those are actually chipped bark pieces and come in different sizes. If the bags are clear plastic, you can see how big the contents are. I won't buy any bark unless I can see the contents which shows me exactly what I am getting. I have found the mini pine bark nuggets found at Walmart perfect for my needs. I haven't seen what Lowes carries just yet. I don't sift as that is too much work. The trees don't care. It's just to help drainage and allow air to the roots.

When I had to find a mix for my citrus trees, I stressed over which ingredients to use. Do I use perlite, vermiculite, or clay balls? The list goes on and on. I worried so much over this. Use common sense and use what's available in your area. People use azalea and camilia mix or rose mix, or cactus mix. Try one thing and if it doesn't work out, use something different. There are lots of ways to grow citrus in containers, but you have to find something that works for your area as your climate is different.

I live in zone 8a, I use repti bark. It does not break down as fast as pine bark. Ratio is 511 (repti bark, coco coir and coarse perlite) as I do not really mind having to always water them. If you decide to use repti bark you can get them cheaper at chewy dot com. Just got to sign up for auto ship (30% off first order) then cancel autoship soon as you get your order.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/2-cu-ft-Pine-Bark-Nuggets-B2PBL-SR/202526086

Thank you, Denise, GardenGal, and Poncrusguy, (I haven't figured out how to respond to a specific post if there are several in a row.) GardenGal, I clicked on the link, (thank you) and it says it is not available for shipping or pickup in my area. Bummer. Poncirusguy, I looked at the link you sent me (thanks). I had looked at that bark at my local HD, and it was way bigger than one inch! It seems these products can vary greatly from one area to another. I know this is nothing short of heresy, but a friend made the following comment. "Look, you bought those trees when they were at least two years old. They stayed in those pots for three years. During that time, they bloomed like crazy and produced tons of fruit. Why not try to find the same soil, put the trees in bigger pots, and be done with it." I can get that soil, but it definitely doesn't look anything like the 5-1-1 mix. I asked one of the owners of a fruit tree nursery about the 5-1-1 mix, and she felt it would drain way, way too fast for this climate. (She doesn't sell soil, so she's not trying to move product.) Denise, you are so right!! I am stressing so much over this. Two trees are over 6 feet tall, 3 are five feet tall, and one is four feet tall, but it is a miracle tree, and is more of a bush, but very root bound. All are going into 20 inch pots. I was thinking that the Repti Bark would be pretty much free of contaminants. If I add organic peat, and perlite, it would be pretty close to an organic growing medium. Perlite is not organic, I know, but don't know of an organic substute. If I rinse and soak the root ball and plant it in this medium, and use organic fertilizer and pest control, I could get fruit that is close to organic. What would I use to make the potting medium more acidic? I know citrus trees like a slightly organic soil. Again, thanks to all of you for taking the time to help.

I know the ReptiBark is pricey, but I'm not seeing anything close to what I need locally. If I have it shipped from another nursery, I'll end up spending as much as I would if I bought it from Chewy's. Thanks Kalabasa!

You are using the term organic in two different ways :-) One, with respect to the perlite - no, perlite is not an organic product in the sense that it is not derived from a living, carbon based organism (it is mineral rather than organic). The second is with respect to the application of synthetic (non-natural or organically sourced) fertilizers or pesticides. Two entirely different meanings.

Using the perlite is not a hindrance to growing organically - feel free to use as you wish.

Using an organic fertilizer on container grown plants is a whole different kettle of fish. By definition, organic fertilizers are slow relase, requiring the activities of masses of soil microbes to digest and convert them into plant usable forms. With very few exceptions, they are not water soluble. The issues arise wth container plants as there is no real "soil" involved and so they lack the populations of necessary soil biology to make that conversion. Because of that any dry organics are extremely inefficient in a container setting and you risk not providing adequate nutrients if you limit yourself to these.

Being 100% organic and growing successfully in containers is a paradox that is extremely tricky to reconcile.

jnmn, I still think your are confusing the usage of these terms (and don't feel bad - most folks do). What "bad stuff' are you trying to remove? And any soil - even potting soil is never fully "organic" in the sense that it will almost always have a mineral based ingredient(s). And minerals - rocks, sand, perlite, etc, - are not considered an organic material or derived from a carbon based, living source. But still perfectly acceptable to use in an organic growing operation. An "organic soil" in the sense that you are using is only one that has not included any disease control ingredients, synthetic fertilizers or soil moisture polymers.

And I am not sure what you mean by organic versus non-organic Meyer lemons. Organic only means that they have been grown without the use of synthetic chemcials (ferts and pesticides). And has already been established, if grown in containers, they very likely will not be fully, 100% organic. But it is really how you grow them that will determine the difference. Although I'm not convinced that one is any better than the other. The plants sure won't care one way or the other!!

What kind of kumquat do you have. do you have a picture of it.

Steve