Can you overwater an Acer in the 5 1 1 mix?
stuartlawrence (7b L.I. NY)
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
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Tapla's 5-1-1 Container Mix in More Detail
Comments (450)@dleverette When making 5:1:1 mix, I break-up the compressed chunks of peat so they pass through a 1/2" screen. I toss any sticks and such on top of the raised beds where they break down with time. Here's a tip you'll find very helpful. For large batches of 5:1:1, pour the bark onto a tarp laid on a flat surface, then wet the bark a bit. Then, add the screened peat and spread it over the bark. Add your lime on top of the peat, then put down the perlite and wet that. The trick is to use just enough water to make the mix damp when it's thoroughly mixed. Both peat and pine bark are hydrophobic (water repellent) when allowed to dry below about 20% of their water holding ability. This makes a dry 5:1:1 mix extremely difficult to rewet if you don't moisten it when you make it. The moisture in the mix diffuses, moistening the bark/ peat and "breaking" its tendency to repel water. Within 15-30 minutes of making the mix you can pot plants and water them in thoroughly w/o the frustration associated with trying to rehydrate a dry soil. FWIW, I don't use coir. As many times as I've tried it and cone comparative experiments, I've always had problems or been dissatisfied with the results. You might be interested in a comparison between peat and coir I wrote several years back: Peat vs. Coir Sphagnum peat and coir have nearly identical water retention curves. They both retain about 90-95% of their volume in water at saturation and release it over approximately the same curve until they both lock water up so tightly it's unavailable for plant uptake at about 30-33% saturation. Coir actually has less loft than sphagnum peat, and therefore, less aeration. Because of this propensity, coir should be used in mixes at lower %s than peat. Because of the tendency to compact, in the greenhouse industry coir is primarily used in containers in sub-irrigation (bottom-watering) situations. Many sources produce coir that is high in soluble salts, so this can also be an issue. Using coir as the primary component of container media virtually eliminates lime or dolomitic lime as a possible Ca source because of coir's high pH (6+). Gypsum should be used as a Ca source, which eliminates coir's low S content. All coir products are very high in K, very low in Ca, and have a potentially high Mn content, which can interfere with the uptake of Fe. Several studies have also shown that the significant presence of phenolic allelochemicals in fresh coir can be very problematic for a high % of plants, causing poor growth and reduced yields. I haven't tested coir thoroughly, but I have done some testing of CHCs (coconut husk chips) with some loose controls in place. After very thoroughly leaching and rinsing the chips, I made a 5:1:1 soil of pine bark:peat:perlite (which I know to be very productive) and a 5:1:1 mix of CHCs:peat:perlite. I planted 6 cuttings of snapdragon and 6 cuttings of Coleus (each from the same plant to help reduce genetic influences) in containers (same size/shape) of the different soils. I added dolomitic lime to the bark soil and gypsum to the CHC soil. After the cuttings struck, I eliminated all but the three strongest in each of the 4 containers. I watered each container with a weak solution of MG 12-4-8 with STEM added at each watering, and watered on an 'as needed basis', not on a schedule. The only difference in the fertilizer regimen was the fact that I included a small amount of MgSO4 (Epsom salts) to provide MG (the dolomitic lime in the bark soil contained the MG, while the gypsum (CaSO4) in the CHC soil did not. This difference was necessary because or the high pH of CHCs and coir.) for the CHC soil. The results were startling. In both cases, the cuttings grown in the CHC's exhibited < 1/2 the biomass at summers end as the plants in the bark mix. I just find it very difficult for a solid case to be made (besides "It works for me") for the use of coir or CHC's. They're more expensive and more difficult to use effectively. The fact that some believe peat is in short supply (no where near true, btw) is easily offset by the effect of the carbon footprint of coir in its trek to the US from Sri Lanka or other exotic locales. That's the view from here. YMMV Coir Study: https://sites.google.com/site/plantandsoildigest/usu-crop-physiology-laboratory/coconut-coir-studies Al...See MoreWhat if you love 5-1-1 mix but hate perlite? Replacement?
Comments (34)Food grade DE comes in a fine, powdered form that looks rather white with a slight grayish tint. As Josh said, it wouldn't be mistaken for the grit looking type of DE that's used as a medium ingredient. I order food grade DE online from a company out west... Earthworks Health, I believe the company is called... they have a website with a ton of information... link below for your convenience. It's mined right there in the same state, taken out of the earth naturally, and is very reasonably priced. I think we paid about $14 for 10 pounds, including shipping. That amount lasts us a very long time, and as I mentioned earlier, we use it mainly for health reasons... though it also makes a wonderful natural insecticide and an anti-parasitic agent for pets or humans. The health benefits of ingesting about a tablespoon per day are many, and include helping to lower cholesterol, lower blood pressure, aid in digestion, help to build stronger hair and nails, help to keep skin healthy, rid the body of parasites, and the list goes on. I mix about a tablespoon with my cup of coffee in the morning... I have to keep stirring as it doesn't really dissolve, but it's odorless, flavorless, and loaded with benefits. Because of DE's structure... what's it naturally made of... the microscopic pieces are incredibly sharp and cut insects or parasites to ribbons. It's so fine in powdered form, however, that it does not harm pets or humans... it does, however, have the great benefit of helping to clean out the entire digestive tract, which allows for better health. I also use it in the garden to help kill insects on my plants... it's completely organic. I lightly dust the leaves of plants that appear to have bug damage. It does need re-application after a rain, but it's cheap enough. I also place a small bit on my windowsills where I keep my indoor plants, and it kills anything that sneaks in and comes in contact with it... like those ladybug look-alikes, box elder bugs, earwigs, etc... I've never worked with the DE for pool filters, so I can't really comment on it... except to say that the dust is very dangerous if inhaled or if it gets in the eyes. It's a terrible irritant. When processed, it turns into a glass-like structure/substance, from what I understand... and it can be dangerous if breathed in or if it comes in contact with mucous membrane, like the eyes. You would not want to mistake this grade of DE for the food grade! The grade for pool filters is NOT edible, or for use on pets or plants! I've never worked with DE in larger particled sizes... as in cat litter or oil dry products. But I must say, it looks like a great substitute for turface. I will have to keep my eyes open next time I go shopping... or need auto parts! Come to think of it... my son works for O'Reilly's... I could probably get a discount on the product, if they have it in stock. I'll have to ask him. I could sure use some! Here is a link that might be useful: FOOD GRADE for Health...See More5:1:1 mix and 1:1:1 mix ingredients in NW Houston
Comments (3)Well, I'd be really impressed if you find a store that has all of those things! It took me a month to find just the 1:1:1 ingredients and of course they are at 3 different stores but well worth the effort. You'll find the gran i grit at a grain/feed store, the MVP Turface I found at an irrigation store (Ewing Irrigation - don't know if they have Houston stores), and I had to screen the Home Depot Sure Stay "Premium Pine Mulch" to get my fines. If you end up doing that, you can use the finest remaining particles in place of peat moss in the 5:1:1. Oh, and wall mart has perlite. Good luck to you on your quest, it is like a treasure hunt and so exciting when you actually find the stuff! Nik...See More5-1-1 mix is beginning to decompose after 1.5 months - normal?
Comments (1)Even if there was a a significant N supply, there wouldn't be a notable breakdown of the bark within such a short period. Might you be noting the bark particles snuggling together more tightly, which reduces the o/a volume by diminishing air space? How long a soil lasts can be over-shadowed by the need to repot or divide plantings, or in some cases just turn them onto the compost pile if the planting is comprised of annuals. As plantings mature, the root system often become a part of the soil structure (with some soils, that never happens because the lower part of the soil is always saturated). I've seen some plantings where at least 90% of the original soil mass has gassed off, leaving only a small fraction of soil in a pot filled with roots. If you are growing a plant that doesn't produce an extensive root system, you can probably go 2 years using the 5:1:1 mix before collapse becomes much of a problem. If you have a planting with a vigorous root system, once you get to the 2 or 3 year point, the roots have either becoming a part of the soil's structure, so even as the 5:1:1 soil breaks down and collapses, the roots themselves should be contributing to aeration and drainage, or roots have formed a mat so dense that water and gases don't penetrate. In either case the remedy is repotting or if appropriate, dividing. Al...See Moretropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
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