Agh. Auto correct. Corcentric

Just an update: As of two days ago, I discovered a problem with my Bluestar RCS sealed burner range. It's one of the reasons why I did not give a full review of the range yet. I needed to put it through its paces and this takes time. I am confident in saying that my findings would not have been fleshed out by Consumer Reports and that my posts will help others make a purchasing decision. I feel like I need to give Bluestar time to respond to the issue before I post a full review. Let's wait and see...

Any advice on buying an LP conversion kit from the manufacturer and installing verses having it built that way? Apparently the RDV Fischer paykel can get built LP and the OR models can get converted

davidhunternyc, I love your long posts. And the line ".. In the past I have come home to Ragu blown up all over my kitchen. I need to be practical" was ROFL!

Hope you get your issue settled and will look forward to a more detailed Bluestar review when you are ready.

Thank you jakkom. I'm still learning things about the Bluestar RCS range. Now that it has cooled off from summer I am cooking alot more and I plan on doing a full review soon but, yes, it will probably be encyclopedic, to the dismay of some people, but intended to be thorough and helpful.

David, this thread has been really helpful to me, I appreciate your in-depth comments. While I'm not considering the exact model you purchased, I've been waffling on and off about a 30" BlueStar sealed burner range.

We're doing a minor-ish (is there such a thing?) kitchen renovation in December including upgrading appliances from mid-90s models that are ugly but workhorses. Which is a bit scary in the day and age of planned obsolescence. We've lived 7+ years with a gas stove with no temperature indicator and frankly don't *want* bells and whistles. Which is one of the reasons we've been leaning towards pro-style ranges. I don't want a lot of gadgetry to go wrong. The only ones really still possibly on my list right now are BlueStar 30" sealed burner range and the 30" Wolf gas range (not dual fuel). I love the look of the grates, and the simplicity of both.

I will fully admit I'm not sure I can pull the trigger on one yet. It might need to remain a pipe dream for a few more years yet, we'll see. I'm confused why BlueStar's site still says the range is 24" deep when it's not. I don't actually see the added depth being *too* much of an issue for us, as our current stove has been away from the wall about 3" due to the gas hookup (which will get fixed in the reno). Though it does look deeper in some pics than even our current goofy configuration.

I was also concerned about the recall on last year's models... nothing like reading about the possibility of exploding gas to strike fear in your heart. That said, it was about running the fan during preheat which I think you're not supposed to do? Take that with a grain of salt-- that's a few month old memory from the first time I was investigating ranges. I've never had a convection oven, and fully admit that's not really a deciding positive for us. We don't do a ton of baking.

Could you give even a slight indication what you decided was an issue with the stove last month? Would really be curious to know. Like I said, I'm unlikely to pull the trigger on a BlueStar with this reno, but I'm not entirely considering it outside the realm of possibility. I'm running out of time to decide. If I do, I'd go with stainless and then colored knobs that are in the turquoise/aqua family to match a major theme in our kitchen, including our to-be backsplash tile. Love those colored knobs. Will also admit that drew me to a Wolf, too, the very first time I saw one. (Plus, red is my favorite color and in our kitchen accessories. But I'd feel weird somehow getting a BlueStar with red knobs? Goodness knows why. Maybe that's silly. lol ) A little kitchen vanity, which I've never had the opportunity to exercise before. So it's tempting, if a bit silly that it might play a part in our decision. ;)

Anyway sorry for my own tl;dr but appreciate all your thoughts in this thread!

I am lookimg at these two too. I have a bert cooktop that i like but many reviews if the gas range speak of veyr uneven oven temps and the bottom curling. Curling? as in warping? that sounds awful. hmmm. so disconcerting. .

Hi David, Thank you so much for your thorough comments and review. I know this post is over a year old now. We are also trying to find the right 36" gas range and I thought I had narrowed it down to the exact 2 models you looked but then after reading this thread I'm not too sure! I am wondering if you ever noticed the oven door of the Fisher Paykel 36"? We just saw one recently and I don't know if it's a new design change but the oven door inside oddly has a huge open gap between the glass and the frame. I can see that being a huge issue with food falling into it or for cleaning in the future? Just wondering if you ever noticed that or looked into it as it seems you did some extensive research.

Amanda, perhaps it's the new models but I have NOT seen what you saw with the Fisher Paykel oven doors. I did have a problem with the inset glass but it's not what you are referring too. Without a doubt the biggest problem with Fisher Paykel is that they use computer chips in a control panel with a cooling fan that is always "on" whenever the oven is in use and that the cooling fan does not turn off until the oven reaches room temperature. There are many different scenarios where this can spell trouble so I passed on Fisher Paykel. They are gorgeous to look at but don't buy an oven based on looks. Bertazzoni has the same cooling fan issues so I passed on it too. I bought a Bluestar which has issues but I'm sure the Bluestar will outlast the Fisher Paykel and Bertazzoni.

Hi David.

Thanks so much for your thorough posts. I am wondering how you're enjoying your Bluestar. I was convinced on the Berta, but now think that I may go with a Bluestar. Please report back when you get a moment.

I agree, this thread has been extremely helpful as I shopped for a new stove. Hence I thought I would share my story. After much deliberation, I purchased a Fisher Paykel being told the control knobs for the cook top on the "OR" dual fuel models told you when the cook top was on. Unfortunately, this is not the case, so I ended up then purchasing the RDV model which had a design change to a display control instead of a knob oven control. While the cooktop control knobs do indicate when the cooktop is on, they also lit when they felt like it as well as the oven coming on once in the middle of the night telling me it was baking cookies. Weeks later Fisher Paykel replaced the oven controls, only to have the oven completely stop working shortly after the tech left. Thankfully the local store is making good, I just didn't want to wait till F&P figured the problem out.

Thank you, Cindy, for your contribution. The point is... why do we need computer chips and apps to fry an egg, roast a chicken, or bake an apple pie? All we need is heat.

I have a Fisher & Paykel 30" gas range which I like for the most part. I have had no problems with it. It was installed a few months ago.

The heating fan doesn't bother me. I don't understand the comment about different scenarios where this can spell trouble because it doesn't turn off until the oven reaches room temperature.

Architectural Notice - Can you tell us what you like/don't like about the fisher Paykel?

Architectural Notice For some people, the cooling fan won't bother them. Everyone has a unique situation so they have to determine what's best for them. If you have a large kitchen with a separate eating area the noise from a cooling fan might not be bothersome. I have a small NYC kitchen and my dining table is three feet from my oven and my refrigerator. Sometimes the compressor on my Fisher Paykel fridge turns on and it's bothersome when I'm sitting down eating a meal. Music will drown out the noise but a cooling fan on a stove is louder than the compressor in my fridge. I chose an oven without a logic board, computer chips, nor a cooling fan.

@davidhunternyc - any update on the issue that your Bluestar had?

@maddiep67 The service and attention from Bluestar was superlative when I was shopping for my stove. For those of you who don't know, after I purchased the Bluestar I was cleaning the stovetop and the silver powder coating on my burners melted off after I used Easy-Off oven cleaner. It was a disaster. There was silver paint everywhere on my stove top. I followed the cleaning and instruction manual for this procedure. When I contacted Bluestar for help they said it was entirely my fault and refused to accept responsibility. I needed to have all six burners replaced as the sludge from the paint clogged the ignitors and they wouldn't turn on. After I showed Bluestar that I followed their procedure for cleaning the stove top, as was written in their manual, they reluctantly agreed to replace my burners free of charge, however, it was like pulling hens teeth. Even though Bluestar is "Made in America" the burners are from a third party supplier and Bluestar does not know what the silver coating substance on the burners is made from. Though Bluestar replaced the burners free of charge they said they were going to update the manual to state that, "the stove top and burners must be cleaned with mild dishwashing soap and a soft sponge only." How realistic is that? I clean my cooktop after every time I cook. I can't imagine what people would do to remove baked on grease and grime if they cleaned their stove top once a week or once a month? What are you supposed to use, Palmolive and a Dobie sponge? This works for some spills but not all. There are too many things wrong with the burners on the Bluestar. First off, they are powder coated aluminum. They are the achilles heel of the Bluestar RCS range. I said that I would do a full review of the Bluestar and I still plan on doing it. After owning and using it for a while I would give the Bluestar RCS either 2 - 3 out of 5 stars. The only saving grace of the burners is that they are powerful as heck (though the flame burns the bottom of my pans). I can boiler water for pasta quickly and make fried rice easily but high output isn't my priority. Simmering is my priority and the burners, even the low btu burner is inadequate. I must use a diffuser on top for long, slow simmers. The best feature on the Bluestar is the infrared broiler. It's a game changer. I live in a pre-war apartment and I don't have a range hood. Searing a steak in a cast iron skillet smokes out my kitchen and triggers my fire alarm. Using the infrared broiler cooks steak beautifully in just a few minutes with very little smoke in my kitchen.

@davidhunternyc, thanks for the lengthy reply. That was a nightmare for sure. I, like you would be easy offing it in order to clean the grease that accumulates and sticks to it. I wonder and have to research if the grates are the same for the open burners as well. I think if they are, it might be a deterrent for me. I want a workhorse, without bells and whistles that can be treated as such.

@maddiep67 Of course, I went back and forth, ad nauseam, between the closed burner and open burner Bluestar range. I was on the fence, 50/50. The Bluestar open burner range is legendary. The entire cooktop is heavy cast iron. A search on houzz will point out the advantages of open burners. So why did I not choose the open burner range for myself? There are several reasons. I do not have a range hood so I can't use the flame to it's fullest potential. I also do not want to have to lift those heavy cast iron grates. Also, I live in a rental apartment and I have roommates who use the stove too. Easy clean-up is my top priority. A cook top that is entirely made from cast iron with openings around the burners is a recipe for disaster for people who don't know how to cook. As I've said before, I can't imagine the clean-up on an open burner range from a roommate who spills Ragu all over and inside the stove. Another concern that I've recently thought about that most people don't have an issue with is critters. Yes, those critters, the mice and the cockroaches. I live in a pre-war apartment and every once in a while I will see something. I couldn't imagine a mouse doing it's business inside of an open burner range or bugs scampering away inside when I turn on the kitchen lights. I'm a clean freak but here in NYC stuff happens. Still, if I had the opportunity to switch to an open burner Bluestar range I would do it. I lived with the RCS and I know its weaknesses. The open burner range would have its weaknesses too but I would want to discover them for myself and I love to learn. The technician who repaired my RCS range lives nearby in Brooklyn. He and his wife have an open burner Bluestar. We talked extensively about both of these ranges and he said, though he likes his open burner range, it's a pain to clean and if he had to choose all over again he would consider getting a closed burner range. You see, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Still, deep in my gut I know that the open burner Bluestar is superior to the the closed burner RCS range, mainly because the Bluestar sealed burners are cheap, third party afterthoughts. If Bluestar developed their own in-house burners made from uncoated brass or stainless steel they would have a home run. If you have a large enough kitchen with a range hood and if your family would be willing to keep it clean I would get the open burner Bluestar. It's the workhorse you're looking for. Well... that convection fan is a problem too but that is another story.

Also, details, details. You'll have the option to choose what kind of knobs you want. Don't get the stainless steel knobs because it's difficult to read the fine black markings on them. I recommend the basic black knobs with white markings. The markings are easy to read and the knobs have a chunky, satisfying hand feel. They do not feel like cheap plastic. (Scroll up to see the photo of my Bluestar for reference.) Of course, any other color with white markings would work too.

Hi David, thanks so much for your reply. I am wondering is the cooling fan only for dual fuel ranges or doe they have them on the full gas ones too? I’m wondering what the Bertazzoni’s would have a control board for as it seems they only have the analogue temperature gauge?

@Amanda Olson Bertazzoni and Fisher Paykel uses cooling fans to cool off the logic board which sits behind the bullnose on all of their ranges. Think of it as a fan in your laptop which keeps your computer from overheating. I bake a lot of bread and my oven is turned up to 500º regularly. Imagine the havoc this much heat would cause over time to a logic board. It's nothing but problems. I also inquired about Bertazzoni's analogue temperature gauge? Just like your regular $20 temperature gauge, the Bertazzoni's gauge will eventually fail too. Bertazzoni will not be able to fix it and it won't be covered under warranty either. Yes, the gauge is analogue and should last a long time but do you want to take that chance? They still do not have Bertazzoni repair technicians in the field to fix your stove. European stoves in America spell trouble. Be careful. When you call Bertazzoni they will sell you a song and a dance. Call several times and ask different people the same question and you will get different answers. I love the look and design of Bertazzoni's but I'm afraid they will drain your bank account faster than you can say Ferrari.

Thank you David!
I am wondering if anyone on this thread has chosen the 36” Fisher Paykel range and how they are finding it. I have attached photos of the gap inside the oven door (seems to only be on 36” ranges) that I was talking about and we noticed that it seems to common design on some of the 24” FP wall ovens too. The 30” range doors are not like this. I am sure there’s a reason for this but we were concerned about food and stuff falling through that gap and felt like it seemed like a pretty impractical design flaw. If anyone has input on this I’d greatly appreciate it!

@davidhunternyc I drool over your knobs. They look incredible!!

@Fred Lerner, Overall, I enjoy cooking and baking with my FP 30" gas range. Here are some specific comments.

What I Like

• The four burner design; I had five burners on my previous Kenmore range and hardly ever used the fifth burner so only wanted four burners on my next range.
• The stainless steel range top. I've always had enamel previously but I think the stainless steel brightens up the kitchen. It's not difficult to keep clean. I got a small grease stain one time (hardly noticeable) and used a little baking soda on a dishrag and it came right off.
• The two telescopic gliding racks (standard with the range). This was a feature I really wanted in my new range and I'm glad the range came with them.
• The soft close oven door. So nice not to hear that oven door slamming shut as in past ranges.
• The slightly smaller depth which works better in my modestly sized kitchen.
• The ability to clean under the range which I wasn't able to do with my previous Kenmore.
• The burners (except for the below comment). They are sturdy, responsive and solidly built. There are two dual ring burners in the front of the range top and two single at the back.

What I Don't Like

• None of the four burners are under 1K BTUs. I would have liked at least one "gentle simmer" burner of 350, 500, or 750 BTU. I purchased a simmer plate and use that when I have something that requires prolonged simmering. Otherwise, I keep a careful watch on things.

I would consider purchasing a FP range again but hope that the FP designers put in a gentle simmer burner when they design their next generation of ranges.

Yeah, lack of simmer burners seems to be the major failing of all modern high end stoves. I find it impossible to understand, since any $500 pre-2000 range can easily do a simmer on any burner, no problem. The thought of spending thousands on a range only to have to get a simmer plate to do what should be a basic function for any stove drives me crazy. Disappointed to hear the FP has this same issue.

Is your FP the latest model?

Yes, my FP is the latest model (OR30SDG4X1).

All the reviews I read prior to purchase were positive and I didn't see any comments about lack of a simmer burner. However, after I had purchased it and used it for awhile, I found a review on Amazon where the purchaser had the very same complaint I had (lack of a simmer burner).

Long time lurker, first time poster. Thx @davidhunternyc for this thread and the info.

I have a 90's maytag that is breaking down on me. Started looking at these 3 exact brands and I have started to narrow it down.

Bertazzoni: LOVE the look but really concerned about maintenance, service and reliability. Have spoken to some local stores and generally the consensus seems to be the same from their point of view.

Bluestar: I have a friend who has a 36" RCS open burner and he really really enjoys cooking on it. He is however very diligent with cleaning. We however are not and although I feel like this would be an amazing range in terms of reliability, low tech (which is a + in my books) etc. The cleaning aspect is really something that will probably haunt me.

Fisher Paykel: I really like the look of the PRO range and it seems to be decent in my other terms. My ONE concern is that after I saw the range in person, the oven size looks extremely short. Just eyeballing it I don't know if I could put a prime rib roast or a turkey in there which is something we definitely do.

@architecturalnotice or anyone else who has a FP range would you have any comment on fitting a roast in the oven?

my two cents, I was here researching 36" gas ranges and after all I've read purchased the Bertazoni. I love it. It works very well for my needs. The stainless steel top is easy to clean and still looks new after a year and half. I have an oven thermometer inside and the gauge it comes with. It does sometimes vary about 25 degrees. When using the convection fan feature, it bakes faster than without but to be expected.

Denise, does the cooling fan bother you on the Bertazoni?

Thanks

Hi all!! I have the same question as Christine...FP oven looks a little small:( love the look, SS top and high btu’s but I worry about the oven size??? Specs say that the usable oven space is only 4 cubic feet?? Is that “much” small we than standard oven capacity??

I would still love to know about the fan noise if anyone has experience. Thank you!

Hello all. I live in western NY and the oven fan is a welcome thing in my kitchen in mostly 3 seasons. Warms the kitchen. It runs if when cooking on convection of course and continues for a little while after the oven is off. I honestly don't pay any attention to it. The sound is not as loud as an exhaust fan and it does not stay on for very long. During the summer, I don't use the oven much. If I do, it would be my smaller wall oven.

I read some reviews about it being bothersome while standing in front of the stove. Has not been an issue for me. Just my opinion.

I have the FP 30" gas range. The oven size is not a problem for me and suits my baking needs. The racks are adjustable and removable so if you have something large you can remove one of the racks. That said, I haven't made anything large like a turkey or cooked any large holiday meals.

I just measured the oven and from the very back of the oven to the front edge of the rack is 15". It is about 23" from one end of the rack to the other. The specs state that the total oven capacity is 3.5 cu ft.

That’s great! Thanks for the Info.

i also read about the fans on the FP, I guess I am worried about white noise, any problems with the fan noise? Thanks!

We are looking into the 30” Bertazoni, and specs state 4.7cu oven capacity, would anyone here know what that means in oven interior measurements? Thx

@architectural notice - we are considering the 30” FP OR30SDG4x1. I love the look of it but I wonder how I tell when the oven has come to temperature. There is no digital monitor and the knobs don’t seem to light up, so how can one know when the oven is hot?

I actually have purchased a 30 inch FP induction range, although it has not yet been installed; build is in progress. If the problem you describe proves to be an issue for me, I will buy an oven thermometer.
My current range is a vintage Wedgewood, and I’ve used an oven thermometer in it for decades. Works great.

That’s a great idea! I never imagined that there was an oven these days that didn’t tell the temperature. I am not a big baker, but it just seems so strange to me.

OR30SDG4x1 is the FP 30" gas range I have.

I haven't had any problems with it and like it very much except for the fact that none of the burners has a setting below 1000 BTU.

It does not have any kind of indicator when the oven comes to temperature which is not a problem for me but might be for some people. I just turn the oven on and let it heat up for about five minutes before I put my item in the oven.

Wanted to show this interesting photo. The right hand side is the FP oven which is actually taller than the Blue Star in the middle in blue. I ended up going with the 30" version of the Fulgor on the left.

Christine, what made you choose the fulgor? I was looking at them but can't find much in the way of reviews or information.

After considering many high end ranges, I settled with a FP (48”). It was a nightmare. Long story short, the range came with a malfunctioning gas safety valve. After dealing with their New Zealand based customer service (which was not good) and having their local certified repair company attempt to fix it, it was still no good. After 6 months they finally tell me about a regional customer service manager in the area...not sure why they waited so long. He was good and was able to get me a new range. It’s the newest model and we just baked with it for the first time. It vents extremely hot air from the back vent when the oven is on....seems to be a safety hazard (see photo). It’s a good looking range, but I wish I had spent the money on something else.

Alex

I am trying to orient myself to your photo. Are you looking straight down with the marble as your backsplash?

@alex? Did you get the issue resolved? This hot air concern me and i used to have a rangetop

Alex, what area are you from. we have been having issues with our 48” range from about the fist year. we had an authorized repair tech had to replace a part because the proofer was not working. they replaced a board that included the thermostat and apparently did not do it correctly. we discovered it when the second authorized repair company came out and said it was the cause of our problems. when we contacted FP they said they were getting a regional supervisor involved and he sent a different repair company out. they dealt directly with FP and still have not been able to fix the range. we have been without an oven for over a year now. im hopeful we will hear from FP in the next few days and they will replace it with a better model.

I figured out how to post a video of the whistling whining noise. This is not the sound of the fan itself which is normal. This whistling can be heard throughout my 3,000 foot house.

https://youtu.be/xYzQJv3Tpd8

@Wilma

which range is that? bertazzoni or FP?

I am considering an electric ceramic radiant Fisher Paykel (it's the series 7) because of looking for non-induction since my dad has a pacemaker. I was wondering how you are all liking the Fisher Paykel's now, and if any of these issues with hot air venting or noises were resolved? Thanks so much for any insights!!

Sorry for the very late response...The photo was shot looking down at the range (with quartz backsplash). It still vents fairly warm air, but we had our small oven on the left side (the half oven) stop working on the new range and it turned out the cooling fans were never operational. FP fixed those and now everything is working fine. The new range they sent was a newer model, but obviously still came with defects. Overall, FP seems to have a hard time with quality control and lacks sufficient customer service to effectively and efficiently address problems.