Thanks so much everyone for your great responses! I'd started responding to each of you when I last wrote (starting w/ the "oh no I wish you hadn't told me they're coming out w/ a new line" post) but then kids called and I never got to finish responding to the rest of you! My apologies... antss - those crate & barrel bowls seem perfectly fine. Thanks for relieving my fears! numbersjunkie - I wish! I can't pull the cabinets out because between the floor space being small enough and there being doors on either end of the long countertop, there just isn't room. But that would be a great idea otherwise! monicakm - trust me - I'd love to be able to get the Kitchenaid! From reading everyone's posts, I'm thinking or at least *hoping* that the problem you've had is more w/ Bosch and less w/ Miele (?) re. platters, baking dishes et al. I don't feel you're being pushy myself just because I made it clear how much I really wanted the Kitchenaid - FYI. You're just trying to help. ;) But like I was saying to numbersjunkie, I can't pull the dishwasher out more because there's a door that when opened (a fear I have - of it happening w/ too much force) will hit the dishwasher if it's even a little further out. It would also make it so that the door could never be opened fully and flush w/ counter to let in all the light from the mudroom/back yard...that would drive me batty. You do have me wondering though: can the Miele's 2nd rack be raised up like the Kitchenaids do? Hope so! carol jk - that's odd. Our water here is soft on its own so hopefully I can just disable the water-softening option. antss - it's funny...when you wrote "some people like the neat orderly loading of a Euro and others prefer the ability to load chaotically in an American tub" I thought that oh dear - I'm the chaotic messy one - very NOT Type A - haha! I want to be as chaotic as I please (w/ option of being orderly of course, when I decide to wear that hat as I do on occasion!) but I think I can still be chaotic w/ the Miele dishwasher, within reason (if that's not an oxymoron)! For example, I'm HOPING I can just lay the flatware on the top tray on occasion, knowing I can't put as many pieces in. I've seen that work for other people in other dishwashers. It all gets clean just the same unless there's heavy soiling. For me the highest priority is unfortunately that it fit in the space, then the second is that it is a reliable machine that's built to last, the third is that it's very good at cleaning very soiled/stuck-on dishes. Not sure where efficiency of space/flexibility of baskets falls in line but probably somewhere soon after! As for the new models not coming out anytime soon...I won't bother holding out. :( fauguy -Thanks for answering those q's! I don't have china/crystal that I use but I do use wine glasses. Can typical wine glasses take a lot of heat - e.g. same setting as pots & pans or cheese/starch? If they can take that kind of heat, I wouldn't have to do two separate loads. I guess if the new models end up being WOW FANTASTIC better, I could sell my current model and pay for the upgrade that way you know? Meanwhile I wouldn't waste time waiting around. Also, if the upgraded racks can fit into an older machine I could always just purchase those but who knows. Not all that important for now. whirlpool trainee/Alex - Thanks for the press release link! I love the lights, but most of all the intensive option. I could care less about the extra silent cycle having a separate kitchen however if it saves on water and electricity more then it would be a nice overnight option on occasion. buffalotina - good to know! I can't BELIEVE the off-the-charts excellent reviews everywhere I look. I don't know if I wrote this earlier or not but the bottom line is that if I had to get new bowls or a better-fitting but lesser-cleaning dishwasher, guess which one I'd choose? Bowls don't cost THAT much! And I'm sure they'd fit one way or another. Plus, I noticed the tines are surprisingly flexible - not that I'd rely solely on that. Alex - That video won't load properly for me for some reason. I eventually got it so that I could scroll slowly through stills but no video. Got the gist of it though, thanks! fun2cook - I've asked my contractor 3x now and he just won't recess the Kitchenaid due to it being an external wall w/ only 2x4 studs. And I explained above why it can't stick out, darn it. As for getting a dishwasher in black, apologies in advance for the following rant-of-sorts: I think black's generally a very nice idea and can look very good. I wonder though if it would fade into the background when surrounded by white cabinets and w/ nothing else being black (?). We have a white range and microwave and there's no space for wall ovens. I haven't had a dishwasher in years (so excited!) but the last one I had years ago (and for several years) was black and I wanted to try something different and new-to-me. I'm doing the integrated "cabinet door" look for 2 reasons: one being that it's trendy in the fun sense (I've always been behind in the times or unable to get the latest thing so that's new for me)! :) The other reason: my new stainless countertop (in 1913 period style if all works out well) will sit above the DW, w/ new stainless fridge being on opposite wall. The way that whole wall is set up in conjunction w/ the rest of the room is such that balance seems to be required more than usual. So again I'll have two walls opposite each other that will have noticeably stainless elements so hopefully no other distractions (just white cabinets and white farm sink and marble subway tile backsplash) and then the other two walls will just have white w/ no stainless (the white stove w/ white microwave and white 1913 cabinet above). So while things will be overwhelmingly if not annoyingly white, it's a small room and there will be some balance overall - and then there will be black accents from the original hardware on the cabinets but they will be relatively subtle. The true color in the room will come in through wall paint and accessories. It's the best I could come up w/ for staying w/ painted original cabinets and not having a whole lot of money - or my own personal designer! fauguy - I do know dishwashers come in white, thanks. I could get a white DW but that wouldn't be as attractive I don't think. I love combining "modern trends" or "upadated looks" with period-appropriate (not something we've always gotten in the past!), which the integrated cabinet door look offers. Plus it just helps w/ the overall symmetry of the lower cabinets under the counter. It can also help when dealing w/ a small, dark, easily-cluttered-looking kitchen. gwentm - you're so lucky your DW will go on an interior wall! Jealous! It's a GREAT dishwasher...really good reviews and at such a better price for their top of the line model. I suppose there's some validity w/ the argument that K.A. appliances aren't built to last as long as the Mieles but on the other hand, as technology advances, I might want to change out my long-lasting Euro dishwasher before the 20-year mark has arrived, anyway! ;)

It's a Miele from about 10 years ago, near top of the line. The lower two racks are configured the opposite of most dishwashers - tThe middle rack is configured to take dinner plates and some cookware; the lower rack holds two rows of cups or glasses on the far left and rightmost two rows and one row of glasses elsewhere. The plate seen here is about 9-13/16" which they don't make anymore, but fits perfectly. They now make the same design in 9-1/2" (a tad small for a dinner plate) and another company makes them in 10" (which may be slightly too big to fit. They both have to be ordered from the UK in boxes of six, I'm in the US. These are made by Johnson Brothers - I don't know much about tableware, but from what I understand these fall about halfway between cheap/casual plates sold by the box and fancy china that sits in dining room glass cabinets except for special occasions. It's elegant wihtou being so fancy/expensive/fragile you wouldn't want to use them frequently.

Not sure I agree with you two on removing the tiles. What are the tiles? How thick are they? What is the underlayment? What is the grout and it's color? Matching that could be real problematic especially if it's a light color and has been seasoned over the years. How about the tiles themselves - will they all come off undamaged? Are new ones available? Will the dye lots match? You'll have to remove a 24" wide swath about 16-24" in front of the opening to get the new unit in. How much is the tile setter going to charge for this and a return trip to grout the next day? Couple hundred dollars for sure. Lets say $250 for giggles. How much for a quality DW that will LIKELY last 10+ years with no trouble $700-$900? Plus the $250 (assuming any of the tile gotchas don't materialize) Plus, now we're going to gamble another $250 that the unit will not be taken out in the 10 year span when choosing the lower quality DW. SO, in my mind we are looking at a realistic total cost of @ 1500 anyway on a "lesser" DW, which puts us real close to the cost of the shorter , higher quality euro models being mentioned. This is a tough choice in my view. Lower cost upfront (maybe) with risk of tile issues materializing versus higher upfront cost for a marginally smaller unit. BTW, while rare they aren't that hard to find - they are $$$ for sure.

Thank you to everyone who posted helpful comments. Since no one who posted had the exact same situation, I did end up taking three of each of my various types of plates and bowls to the showroom to test in the Miele models I posted. Here are my results, which may be of interest to a future buyer who happens to share my dinnerware pattern. All of the plates fit fine in the tines, including dinner plates, salad plates, and bread plates. Actually, the plates were my biggest concern because they are not flat in style but have a raised rim that seemed to me to be too pronounced to fit into the rather tightly spaced Miele tines. Amazingly, they fit just fine. Those clever German engineers! The soup bowls also fit fine, as did the cereal bowls. I did have trouble with two bowl styles that are deeply rounded in design. Neither the 8 1/2 inch pasta bowl shown here not the 5 1/2 inch fruit bowl (which I think looks more like an Asian rice bowl in shape) were able to fit in adjacent tines, nested beside one another. So for these items I will have to skip three or four tines between bowls, but I do not use as many of these on a daily basis, so I think we're still OK. Here is a link to the dessert bowls: Here is a link that might be useful: Portmeirion Botanic Garden Individual 5-1/2-Inch Fruit Salad Bowls