Top Coaches, Actresses Lori Loughlin, Felicity Huffman Charged

eld6161

..in college scheme along with many others, to get their children accepted into top schools.


Evidently, the children did not know that they did not get into the colleges on their own merit.


I can't imagine what these kids are feeling and thinking right now.



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functionthenlook

It is not new. Money talks. The wealthy forever have used their wealth for things they are not entitled to. They just are the ones that got caught. IMO there is no difference between using bribe money to attend a school to donating a building to the university. Heck during the civil war you could pay someone to take your place. Part of the payment went to the government and the other to a substitute solder.. All though we are defiantly not wealthy, when we go to an all inclusive for vacation we tip the bartender well. Guess who's drinks are promptly refilled while others wait. The only difference is that it is legal.

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blfenton

Massive fraud and bribery charges under RICO involving elite schools. However, the schools themselves are not thought to be involved - just some coaches and a lot of very wealthy parents.

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happy2b…gw

My husband just told me about this. The lengths some people will go to. The complicity is hard to believe. High school officials must have looked the other way. I wonder how many of the students accepted earned diplomas from the universities involved. They would have had to perform at the level of their peers or was there further bribery?

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Martha Scott

I would assume we've seen our last Garage Sale Mystery Movie

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sushipup1

"I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!"

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arcy_gw

It's interesting to think about those tests. They are supposed to "prove" the taker can make it in said school. If these young people are doing fine in school...even though mommy cheated goes to show you how meaningful one test is. LOL. Parents cheating/lying/hiding truth so their kids look good knows no financial bracket. What a world we live in!!

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maifleur01

Used to be that people would donate to the college of choice to have their child admitted. These people should have gone that route.

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adellabedella_usa

I would guess most of those schools have another way of acceptance into the school through diversity or what each person can bring to the table. Children of the rich and famous may very well tick that box in that they have a different lifestyle and a different view on the world. The coaches and parents haven't been found guilty yet. I'm curious to see how this plays out.

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Elmer J Fudd

"IMO there is no difference between using bribe money to attend a school to donating a building to the university. "

You may want to reconsider this comment. If truly the schools involved didn't participate and instead it was corrupt, unauthorized acts by school employees for personal gain, there would be a HUGE difference. It would be illegal and against school rules, for a start.

A reasonable quid pro quo on a small scale from the school's standpoint is smart if it believes an admission decision will be beneficial for the institution. Admission decisions are based on far more than grades and records. If admitting one student continues the affiliation of a family of longstanding generosity, or will attract positive publicity for the school (as a kid with some affiliation to positive notoriety of some kind), it would be dumb to not take these things into consideration. Generous financial contributions provide money that all students benefit from.

Just one example- the cumulative endowment efforts at most of the so-called "elite" schools allow these schools to provide students from low income families a free ride, full and debt free support for 4 years. Should schools not make reasonable efforts to build assets for purposes like these?

More needs to be known.

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catticusmockingbird

IMO there is no difference between using bribe money to attend a school to donating a building to the university.

Wrong! Bribing coaches and cheating on SATs are crimes.

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eld6161

What I don't understand is how they pretended that the kid was on a sport team. One was crew. In college sports, aren't there coaches that go around recruiting for a certain of athletes?


Here is another thought. Said child sends the application in to Yale. Somehow this application gets circumvented to be reconfigured with the extra curricular. I think many more people will be exposed.


And, the SAT scores. The kids are so involved in prepping for the test and then getting their scores. Then magically, they get into Yale anyway.

I wonder too about their GPA's.


Side story: Yes this happens. I know someone I used to work with who used a "favor" to get her son into Emerson. He was talented, but not a good student academically. Of course she kept this a secret from her son. She left years ago, I wonder now if her son was actually able to handle to course work.

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Elmer J Fudd

There's a good article in the Washington Post. It clearly involved illegal acts. Illegal bribes were involved, including to coaches and administrators, so that the applicants would gain admission by being on team recruiting lists. The FBI's complaint includes this, I think a partial summary:


"(1) to bribe college entrance exam administrators to facilitate cheating on college entrance exams; (2) to bribe varsity coaches and administrators at elite universities to designate certain applicants as recruited athletes or as other favored candidates, thereby facilitating the applicants’ admission to those universities; and (3) to use the facade of a charitable organization to conceal the nature and source of the bribe payments."

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OutsidePlaying

Maifleur, if you read the stories, one of the actresses (Felicia) did donate $15k to the university, but that isn’t all she did. So bottom line is there are multiple things wrong with this. The guy Singer who brokered all these deals, the way they cheated, and then the fact the kids didn’t even compete once they got into the athletic programs. I won’t even get into all the things the guy did to ensure those kids got into school, but he totally altered their scores, photos, and lied about their athletic abilities.

Yeah, it’s stressful for kids getting into college, and for some more than others. Usually kids end up where they should be without any help from parents or anyone else. What really makes me ill is that some really deserving kids got knocked out of spots on athletic teams that should have been there and now are not as a result of these schemers.

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eld6161

I feel for the kids who now know that Mom and Dad cheated and bribed for their spot.

I wonder too, if they questioned themselves, 'Wow, how did I get in, when so and so didn't?"


Then, I also wonder how this whole scheme is advertised? How do their "clients" learn about this service?

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blfenton

A building donation to a school costs millions, the cost to bribe a coach or bribe someone to take an SAT exam for your kid is in the tens of thousands. Big difference.

Donating is legal, bribery is not.

These parents may be wealthy and they may be elite but there is a whole other stratosphere in terms of money above them.

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Bookwoman

What really makes me ill is that some really deserving kids got knocked out of spots on athletic teams

What really makes me ill is that some really deserving kids didn't get into these schools at all. I understand why schools want to admit some portion of legacy/famous applicants, as Elmer states. What I don't understand is the special admissions criteria for athletes at the elite schools. If you're an excellent student and you also play a sport, great. But why should your athletic ability have any bearing on whether or not you get into Yale? The days when alums sent more money to an Ivy because the football team did really well are long gone.

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Elmer J Fudd

"But why should your athletic ability have any bearing on whether or not you get into Yale?"

The athletic rivalries among the eight Ivy League schools are perhaps the oldest in the country. I won't speak to what the reality may be but league rules prohibit athletic scholarships. Meaning, in theory, in addition to athletes having to be capable enough students to deal with the academic demands, their families also have to be able to afford their attendance. OR be of a profile with other students at the school that can get need-based aid. They all recruit heavily and the profile of capable students who have also excelled in a sport and from families that can afford the cost or qualify for need based aid produces a limited recruiting pool.

There are of course other so-called elite schools and the others do offer athletic scholarships as other colleges and universities do. The Ivies are different in this one way, I mention it only because bookwoman cited Yale.

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kadefol

Considering Lori Loughlin's daughter stated she doesn't really care about college and just wants to attend to party, I really don't know why she even bothered to do this.

And I am really disappointed in Felicity Huffman, I thought better of her.

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Bookwoman

Elmer wrote: They all recruit heavily....

But why? Sports are no longer a big part of campus life at the Ivies (nor at many equally-difficult-to-get-into small liberal arts colleges) and yet being a recruited athlete is a huge admissions boost. This has always baffled me.

ETA, just found this informative piece in The Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/10/college-sports-benefits-white-students/573688/

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arcy_gw

From what I am hearing in the news I am more concerned about the SAT/ACT testing process. If one can breach that then we are messed up. I find it rather bizarre that anyone justice system cares that a private company (Harvard) took bribes. As has been stated the process of greasing the wheels of academia with money has been going on for decades.

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functionthenlook

No Yale doesn't offer athletic scholarships. They call it financial aid. A rose by any other name is still a rose. This is from Yale news.

https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2012/01/11/financial-aid-expands-pool-of-potential-recruits/

Just who do you think is going to receive a free ride. The middle class star athlete or the middle class non athlete who is all around better ? Who is going to bring more money into the university. The star athlete or the non athlete student. Sports = money and more important prestige to the university.

No, there isn't very many wealthy class parents anymore that can afford to donate a building. Now they donate wings or rooms, etc for their idiots to attend the university of their choice. Yes, it is legal, but do you really think they would have still donated the money if the university refuses to accept their idiot. They are still offering money whether it is to an university employee or the university itself to obtain something they are not entitled to. A bribe does not have to be illegal by the definition of a bribe. You scratch my back I will scratch yours. How many good students were not accepted to the university of their choice because the quota of new students was full and several of those students were the idiots.

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jewelisfabulous

I have to wonder what happened to those kids when they got in these schools? Did they make it? Or, did they realize they couldn't handle the load and drop out or transfer out?

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socks

I was reading the list of people involved, and it's really long! What a bunch of scammers.

edited to add—The dumb thing is, the parents are setting their kids up for failure because they’re attending schools which are too challenging. Or they will have a miserable experience because they are not measuring up.

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maifleur01

OutsidePlaying $15K is small change to most schools. When the tuition is over $50K that amount would get you a thank you and future mailings.

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maifleur01

arcy one of the articles I read stated that one of the accused was a proctor at a testing site. If bribed easy enough for another person to take the test if that person was the one checking credentials.

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OutsidePlaying

Exactly, maifleuer. It was an afterthought. I believe they had a second daughter who was about to go to college and she may have been having second thoughts about doing this same thing again via Singer, so it seemed. So she donated this small amount. Who knows why. You would have to read the context of the article to get it.

Yes, bookwoman, the whole thing is sad in looking at the whole for all students, but when they made such an issue of getting into the school via athletics, and then the child dropped the sport anyway and continued in school, it is just wrong. Obviously those kids could not compete at the college level. There are other avenues for admission besides athletics, yet that is what was targeted in this case.

edited to add, correcting to add that apparently F Huffman did arrange to change or somehow fix her daughters SAT scores, so it does go deeper than just sports. Such a sad commentary on privilege paying for getting into a college above others.

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Elmer J Fudd

"But why? Sports are no longer a big part of campus life at the Ivies (nor at many equally-difficult-to-get-into small liberal arts colleges) and yet being a recruited athlete is a huge admissions boost. This has always baffled me."

I think the answer is probably in part because of tradition at these very old schools. It's a small number, certainly in the single digits of a percentage, of Ivy students who are athletes. And such admissions aren't wasted, many are capable academically in their own right along with their peers. Sports competitions do stimulate school spirit among some, whether that's useful or not in the 21st century is for the schools to decide.

Ironically, bookwoman, the Ivies and other schools like Div 3 schools or other small elite schools where scholarships are limited may be closer to the historical model of having teams of "student-athletes" than are most Div 1 schools. Where, at the latter and especially in the money sports, the athletes in reality ARE paid to play, are seeking pro contracts either at graduation or before, and are separate and apart in many instances from the student bodies of their schools while raising a lot of money and attention for the schools. Take a Top 10 school like Stanford-while it certainly has the endowment to pay for its intercollegiate sports (as the Ivies do), I'm sure successful football and basketball programs are self-supporting and pay for much if not all of the rest of the athletic department's teams. And perhaps even more than that.


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Elmer J Fudd

"And I am really disappointed in Felicity Huffman, I thought better of her."

Based on what? Did you have reason to think she wasn't just another show business person with feelings of entitlement?

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Anglophilia

So much of this makes no sense at all. I have some personal experience with this, as my son played a "minor" sport in college 30 years ago, and my eldest grandson is doing so now in a different "minor sport".

I don't know where Bookwoman gets the idea that sports are not important in the Ivies. Oh yes they are! Remember, the Ivies are highly competitive among themselves, and they are filled with highly competitive people. If you don't think that Harvard is stinging from losing the Potter Cup (squash) to Trinity this year, then you are sadly mistaken. Harvard wants to be No 1 in EVERYTHING! They all do! Students may not go to many sporting events, but alums come in droves to see their school play. The Atlantic article is poorly researched and is missing a lot of info.

First of all, there are two different ways athletes use their sport as a leg-up for college, in the minor sports. First, is to be a "recruited" athlete. This will be someone that has contacted the coach, possibly even in his sophomore year in HS (coaches cannot contact student until July 1 before their senior year under NCAA rules), and has been sending videos and statistics. BTW - these are easily verified on the web site for each sport - one can't fake ones national ranking and what one has won or lost - it's all right there on the internet. Most coaches of minor sports are given 2-3 "slots" each year for an athlete they really want. If the athlete is a "recruited athlete", he applies early and he usually will receive a "likely letter" from admissions. This is as good as an acceptance.

Then there are "supported" athletes. These are the ones the coach would like to have on his team but they're not his top pick. He informs the admissions office of these candidates - they might be 5-6 - and their file is flagged. This means that if all other things are equal, they may well get the nod. They must be students with strong records - this is not where one can have an SAT score that is 300 points lower than the average of all those admitted. It just helps one stand out in that huge number of pretty equal applicants.

When my son visited the school he ended up attending, and we met with the coach, she was thrilled when she heard his grades and SAT scores, as she said she would not have to "owe the admissions office her firstborn" to get him admitted and she very much wanted him to play for her. She told him to apply early (binding at that school) and she would tell admissions that she wanted him, ie, he was a supported candidate. He got in and played for the school for 4 years and also did well academically.

My grandson started contacting coaches in his junior year, and met with them on the "spring break college tour". He knew he would not be a recruited athlete - he just wan't playing at that level, but he was hoping to be a supported one. He ended up being this at two schools. He applied early to both, and got into his first choice (binding) and is on the team, but did not play this year - still a work in progress. Did it help him get in? Probably. Did being a legacy (both parents, an aunt, and a grandfather) help as well? Probably. But he also had outstanding grades and test scores - outstanding enough that this Ivy gave him 27 hours of college credit based on his AP scores. Did I mention he made the Dean's List first semester and appears to be on track to do it again? He's just freaky smart and is very self-driven and highly motivated. Also, highly competitive. He deserves to be there.

Yes, many of the minor sports players are white. They play sports that many public high schools don't offer, and they often have private lessons, they do travel to tournaments, and they go to camps in the summer. All these things cost money. My own son went to one sports camp - that's where the college coach saw him and told him she'd be interested in having him play for her team. It wasn't that expensive, thank goodness! No athletic scholarships at his college and their need-based financial aid was far from generous.

All of these things are why DGS is not playing his sport, even though he's on the team. They can only play 10 players at each tournament. He plays a sport that is not popular in the midwest, at least not in our state. He was limited to tournaments he and his father could drive to - no flying to the big tournaments in the east. He went to camp when he was 12 - a joint birthday present from me and from his parents. He went again to the camps at the two colleges where he applied in the summer before his senior year. I paid for one, his parents paid for the other. He had to show them he had "potential" and he does. But no private lessons, no expensive trips - his parents put that money in his college fund. And no athletic scholarships, either. He is dedicated enough to this sport (which he has played since he was about 9), that he works out with the team for 2 1/2 hrs 6 days a week. He did get to travel to the Ivy League Skirmishes and Nationals - he played at the Skirmishes, a real thrill for him.

The Ivy League and many other competitive colleges do not offer athletic scholarships at all. Any financial aid is "need-based". Minority athletes benefit greatly from this as they usually do have significant financial need so it doesn't hurt them at all.

What I don't understand about this entire mess is why on earth any Ivy coach (or Stanford) would give up their limited slots to someone they knew did not play their sport. This would be harming their program - no great recruits coming each fall. I have a feeling that they were NOT "recruited" athletes, but were "supported" ones. But this would then mean that they were already strong candidates if they got in. Cheating? Yes? Bribery? It appears so. And incredibly stupid of those coaches. Unless they had someone in admissions with whom they were sharing the bribe, I don't see how this could have possibly helped them enough to be given that kind of money.

To be good enough to play ANY sport in the Ivies or sports-mad Stanford means a student has to give a lot of time over the years to his sport. And at the same time, he must get high grades, and study for the ACT and SAT. Most students can't do this - one or the other, but not both. Wealthy white privilege? Did it get them out of doing the school work and the work on their sport? NO! They worked their tails off for this. I'm sure the players on these teams with coaches who took bribes, are steaming - they know how hard they worked.

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eld6161

Great explanation, Anglo. Before reading I was going to add as you mentioned. The sports are a big money maker for the school. One could add that it adds to the spirit and camaraderie of the college.

I agree. For all this to have gone down ,there must be staff in admissions. There will be more on the list when this all plays out.

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rob333 (zone 7a)

If one must hide the route of the money changing (how it got from point A to point B), it's illegal.

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cleo07

An explanation of how a mediocre student can get into an ivy through the sport team. ...My niece went to an ivy and played a sport. The coaches have to fulfill an average GPA with their recruits. So a mediocre student is balanced out by a high performing student. My niece had a 4.0 in high school so she in demand to balance out a poor student on the roster.


This company was creating a fake sports profile for these mediocre students and paying the coach to put them on the team. I think the one coach made $800,000 for 2 students alone. It was a backdoor or crappy students who weren’t competitive on grades alone.



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arcy_gw

So in the end the REAL issue is sports??? Not academics at all--which I thought was the point of college? LOL I do not see how the Department of Justice ought to be spending ten cents investigating this. In the end who gets admitted to these "ivy league" colleges is VERY subjective. The interview/essay are all about if the board over seeing them LIKES this applicant or not. Whose to say the family with money won't be a better fit??? They will certainly have the resources in the future to support what tuition alone cannot. These are PRIVATE entities. They ought to be able to set any bars they want. I do see how those "requirements" wink wink nod nod should in all fairness be public. It's always been one large "good ole boys club" and those people who find that sort of "education" important run in those circles. I do not need my tax money policing them!!

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Bookwoman

Anglophilia wrote: I don't know where Bookwoman gets the idea that sports are not important in the Ivies.

My own personal experience and that of my daughter, at two different schools, 30 years apart. But I suppose this is one of those YMMV things.

What I don't understand about this entire mess is why on earth any Ivy coach (or Stanford) would give up their limited slots to someone they knew did not play their sport.

Money, money, money. They were doing it for personal gain. Which is why the schools can plausibly (although a bit disingenuously) say that they were not, as institutions, party to the crimes.

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cleo07

Some of these were state schools such as USC and the sailing coach so It wasn’t all private schools. And the crimes are bribery, mail fraud etc which are illegal in public or private entities.

These wealthy students without any sports background at all took the place of an actual student athlete who would not have gotten into an Ivy on grades alone. Graduating from an Ivy would be life changing for them and believe me, these elite student athletes have sacrificed so much time to get to that level.

I find nepotism in all forms repugnant but these people are truly disgusting. And there is no way some of these kids didn’t know they were cheating. When an stellar SAT score comes to your house, it would be obvious someone else had taken it. Or when you have 2 days to complete it instead of one. Some students were photographed playing their fake sport and othera had photoshopped images of other athletes in newspapers etc.

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Uptown Gal

Remember....the tax fraud is what is going to sink them....do you think they

should have the choice to lie and cheat on that too? Sigh.

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nicole___

THIS IS BIG! Buuuut........I find people asking for bribes at lower levels of our society too. People go too far!

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Bookwoman

Here's the perfect intersection of this topic with Houzz: http://mcmansionhell.com/post/183417051691/in-honor-of-the-college-admissions-scandal

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cleo07

bookwoman-

That ukulele on the pile of books is so contrived-hilarious! In my house, it would be both covered with dust and chewed by dogs. I actually like the reflecting pool but once again...the grass would be trashed and the pool would be filled with dogs. lol

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OutsidePlaying

Bookwoman, that is hilarious. Hope it doesn’t get taken down by the trolls.

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MrsM

'Anti poor door' lol

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Elmer J Fudd

"Some of these were state schools such as USC and the sailing coach "

You've got the story twisted a bit. The USC involved is University of Southern California, which is a private school. This is the school known for its football accomplishments and OJ Simpson, one of many past stars.

The sailing coach named is from Stanford, also a private school. I quickly scanned the list and the only state school I saw was a participating coach at UT-Austin.

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cleo07

Oh sorry. I thought USC was a public school. Either way, public or private, it all stinks!

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matthias_lang

Can anyone direct me to an article with the full list of schools involved? There are mention of Ivy League in this discussion, but so far the only Ivy League school I see mentioned in news reports is Yale.

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Bookwoman

matthias, here's the affidavit: https://www.washingtonpost.com/college-admissions-bribery-scheme-affidavit/d216435e-e073-41f6-b6fa-33ed835d053d_note.html.

On p. 5 is a list of the schools: Georgetown, Stanford, UCLA, USD, USC, UT-Austin, Wake Forest, and Yale. You're correct that only one of those is an Ivy.

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Elmer J Fudd

My comment was incomplete too. UCLA is also a public institution.

(Private USD is often confused with public UCSD. The first is a small to medium size Catholic school, the second is a now pretty large member of the California's upper tier UC system. UCSD has a mostly quiet and understated athletic department and doesn't have a football team.)

Also in the news is a story about an assistant coach of the Boston Celtics who admitted to accepting bribes for admission when he was the basketball coach at University of Pennsylvania (Penn), also a private school in the Ivy League.

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graywings123

Lori Loughlin's daughter, Olivia Jade, is taking a beating on Twitter - and deservedly so.


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eld6161

The sad thing about Lori Loughlin's daughter is that when you hear her talk about going to college, it is obvious that she did not deserve this spot. I don't even think she even wanted to go, but was talked into it by the parents. They themselves did not go to college and wanted this experience for their daughters.

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dedtired

Why does Olivia Jade deserve to take a beating? Did she know what was going on? Her parents deserve the beating, not her. I would imagine she is humiliated. I did not read the twitter feed so maybe there is something going on that I am not aware of.

I am stunned by the amount of money the parents paid. Crazy.

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socks

I just shake my head at Lori Laughlin playing such a "goodie 2-shoes" in the show "When Calls the Heart." I still have a season to watch but not sure if I can.

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Janie

Dedtired, last night I saw on tv a video of Olivia Jade being (imo) prissy and cutsey and saying that she was looking forward to school for the social things and she didn't care about the schooling part of it. Now that is not a quote, because I saw it on tv and do not remember what she said exactly, but I certainly got her message! Again this is just my opinion - but I think she and her mother and I think maybe her father also deserve the humiliation.

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OutsidePlaying

The daughter definitely made some dumb teenager remarks. Whether she knew about what was going on is anyone’s guess. She was probably somewhat truthful about what she said, and really didn’t plan to ‘excel’ in her studies. But who knows if that was just twitter/blog talk for the benefit of her friends and followers.

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sleeperblues

I have a hard time believing she (Olivia Jade) did not know what was going on. Since she has made a job out of being a "social media influencer" I highly doubt she excelled academically. She spent all of her time on you-tube. Kids know what it takes to get into a good school, and she had to know that she did not cut the mustard. She doesn't seem too bright to me. She wanted the college experience of game days and parties, not rigorous studies and all night study sessions. She deserves all the back lash she and the rest of her family is getting on twitter.

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graywings123

^^^ And that's what some of the Twitter talk was about. For example:




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kadefol

I wonder how far these parents were willing to go. Once the kid has been bribed into school, do the parents pay someone else to take exams and meet whatever requirements are necessary for graduation?

And once the kid "graduates", do they have a job lined up where they get paid $$$$$ just to show up?

These people are filthy rich and can lavishly support themselves and their kids for life, so I really don't understand why they were willing to cheat to force their incapable/uninterested offspring into college in the first place.

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blfenton

I don't know if this is part of it or not but when my kids were in school (elementary and high school) there were so many parents constantly bragging about how great their kids were - they made the gifted program, they made the higher level sport team for this or that sport, they got 4 awards for track and field, they were chosen for the science fair. blah, blah, blah. Then grade 12 - they were accepted into 3 schools, they got so many in scholarships = it's just a continuation of that bragging, of oneupmanship. And so many of these parents were doing the work for their kids.

You see the same thing on various forums on GW. That this happened and exists doesn't surprise me in the least and if someone were to keep on digging it's probably the tip of the iceberg.

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Amazing Aunt Audrey


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diane_nj 6b/7a

Hallmark’s parent company has fired Loughlin.

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blfenton

I wondered about that. The court had allowed her to travel to Vancouver to finish a contract that she had which expires in November. I don't know if that was for When the Heart Calls or a Garage Sale Mystery as they're both filmed in Vancouver.

Does Hallmark own both?

Her daughter OliviaJade was cruising with the daughter of the chairman of USC in the Bahamas for spring break and has come home and Sephora has cut ties with her and her makeup line. I would imagine she is probably an outcast. For someone who creates trends this will be devastating. Oh well

She's an "influencer" - that's the word I was looking for. Not anymore she isn't.

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Elmer J Fudd

This is not about the bribery scandal, arrests, cheating.......

blfenton- I know a bit what you're talking about, the braggarts talking about little else than what their kids had done. When speaking to other parents who also have kids, it can be boorish and certainly unnecessary. However, among the kids and parents I've known over the years, I realized early on that if you dialed back the impoliteness you often found parents who taught their kids to work hard and be fair but competitive in what they did. They cared, maybe sometimes too much, but they tried to help. Those kids often had more success and accomplishments than those who didn't receive such guidance and coaching. And that often mattered.

Life is competitive and unfortunately for college bound kids, success in high school is important in the (99+% of the time fair) applicant assessments for college admissions. Those who were encouraged to work hard and do their best got into better schools (that can matter too) and often also had superior skills to do well in college. That can contribute to better success and more choices if graduate programs were a desired next step. And, ultimately, more and better job choices.

For me, dishonesty and or a lack of integrity is NEVER acceptable. Never. Cheating and rule bending are never acceptable. But if the job of being a parent is to prepare one's kids for successful life as adults, failure to teach kids to understand the importance of and ways to be successful with peer competition is just that - a big parental failure. I've seen too much of that too. Kids can't raise themselves.

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blfenton

Elmer J Fudd - I discovered that about parents once the kids were out of school. When running into parents at functions after our kids had graduated that's when I found honesty from the parents about the real hard fought successes and sometimes difficulties of raising their children. Up until then it always seemed to be some sort of competition which I stayed away from.

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Anglophilia

Many humans are by nature competitive. Those who are not, rarely get very far in life, but they may be fine with that. My late husband, a Yale graduate, was not competitive by nature. He had no desire to be a head of school - his heart was in the classroom. He was a very good teacher, but he didn't earn a very good salary and that was often quite hard. He would not have wanted our children to go into teaching and they did not.

A parent must truly know his child. Both my children are competitive by nature, one a bit more than the other. They both have at least one child who is highly competitive, the other not as much. One does not try to hold back a competitive child - just let them go and be there for them with reassurance if they fail. Most are not devastated by failure - they just try again.

A parent who knows his child will have a pretty good idea what school will serve that child well. And it is quickly validated when one sees that child walk onto a campus and just beam. They know.

It is the job of a parent to hold their children to high standards - to be the best they are capable of being. If that's being a C student, then they should not be getting D's and F's. If they are capable of much more, they should use the gifts they were given.

Parents need to teach children a strong work ethic, impulse control, self-discipline, the ability to work toward a long term goal. Also, that there are no short-cuts in life.

These wealthy parents believe there ARE short-cuts if one has enough money. Sometimes, that is true, but in the end it never really is. They were "ripe for the picking" by the shyster, Mr Singer, who has "con artist" written all over him. They fell for his flattery and nonsense. He could only pull these tricks a few times. Only at USC where he was in cahoots with an Ass't Athletic Director, was he able to do it multiple times in multiple sports.

Often a true recruit has the academic qualifications to get in on his own - a very highly qualified candidate as well as a great athlete. A coach may tell the recruit he IS a recruit, but if the parents don't know to ask for a "Likely Letter" from admissions, he may just tell admissions that he's a supported candidate - he's going to get in anyway. Then he "sold" that recruiting spot to Singer. The Yale coach was retiring - guess he saw this as his "golden parachute". What a shame he succumbed to such temptation. But a coach can only do this on rare occasions - he's going to get caught and more and more parents know to ask for a Likely Letter - lots and lots of information right on the internet.

I cannot imagine any parent not being proud when a child reaches a goal or gets an award or has some significant achievement. Yes, they are going to share this information with others as they are bursting with pride and pleasure FOR their child. Others may see it as "bragging". Wasn't it Dizzy Dean who said, "If it's true, it ain't bragging"?

Yes, some parents see their child as a brand and live through them. Most don't, but it sure is pleasurable to see a child succeed and experience the joy of that success.

Monday, would have been my late husband's and my 41st wedding anniversary - we were married 27 years before he died. My eldest grandson remembers him best, but we talk about "Poppa" all the time. As I've said, he was a teacher - a secondary school math teacher. He loved math, and he'd have been thrilled to see two of his grandchildren love it, too. I wrote them all and asked them to think of my husband and all he did for our family (children were from my first marriage, but he loved them as his own and had no biological children himself). Eldest grandchild, who is in college, wrote me back and said he just wished Poppa could see the math he was doing at his university. It's so advanced (even though he's only a freshman), that he would probably have had to explain it to my late husband, but boy would he have been proud. And yes, I'm very proud of this boy's accomplishments, but especially in his joy in doing both his very demanding academics, and his sport.

Nothing robotic about this boy - just the joy of learning, working hard and achieving. And that's what we should all want for our children - that joy. The success is just icing on the cake.

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Feathers11

In my life, I interact with a wide cross-section of people, from those who've attended Ivy Leagues, have prestigious careers and drive luxury cars, to those whose parents are incarcerated and who could strip down luxury cars in a backstreet alley in 10 seconds flat. The happiness of every one of these individuals has nothing to do with where they went to school or what advantages or disadvantages they've had. I feel genuine pity for these kids who are caught up in this scandal, as well as their parents and the other adults responsible who believe that what they were pursuing leads to satisfied lives. Of course life can be easier on this elite track with financial reward, but easier doesn't mean happier. We all know plenty of examples.

I am disheartened that the high-profile actresses are what we're visually seeing covered on this case, when there are plenty of others who are just as involved but whose faces aren't as recognizable and, therefore, aren't splashed across the media.

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Elmer J Fudd

" The happiness of every one of these individuals has nothing to do with where they went to school or what advantages or disadvantages they've had. "

So you believe people who have a spouse in jail, or are unemployed, are every bit as happy as people pursuing occupations/professions they love that provide security and a comfortable life style? Right, that's utter nonsense.

The number one source of marital discord (from what I've heard since forever)? Money problems. Oh, but I guess marital discord doesn't affect happiness? Sure, there are people with solid credentials who are underemployed. Some even unemployed. For them, their educational background advantages are trumped by their personal choices.

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Anglophilia

People are always ver quick to use the old saw, “Money doesn’t buy happiness”. That may be somewhat true, but I can promise you that money can make unhappiness a whole lot easier.

I was devastated losing my husband to prostate cancer. He was only 54 and I was not yet 61. But due to money (not vast riches, but enough to live comfortably), I was not going to lose my house or my way of living. I knew all too well that many would have have been in dire straits - no husband! No money, and the loss of pretty much everything. Money didn’t replace my husband, but at least I didn’t lose my entire life.

Just go talk to families staying at a Ronald McDonald House. Those who can afford to stay with their very ill child are far happier than those who must go back home all week as they must work, only being with a possibly dying child on the weekends.

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Feathers11

We can each find examples of anecdotal evidence of happiness with regard to wealth. Latch onto whichever one supports yours.

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Elmer J Fudd

(Edited to improve language)

Yes, my comments arise from anecdotal experiences but my experiences are consistent in this regard, as I believe most other peoples' are. I think your comments are fanciful.

That's pretty funny in a thread where the discussion, in part, was about honesty.

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Debby

Lori Laughlin (sorry if I spelled her name wrong) was fired from her Hallmark show, putting 100's of job in jeopardy on set in Vancouver BC.

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ljk1

Would it have been better if Lori Loughlin’s daughter had known about her parent’s bribe to get her into college or for her to find about it while on a USC official’s yacht. I don’t know.

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diane_nj 6b/7a

Loughlin has also been fired by Netflix for Fuller House.

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eld6161

I think that Loughlin's daughters both knew. They posed for the fake crew pictures.

We haven't heard anything about the Huffman/Macy daughter.

What is really sad is that Olivia Jade had a "legitimate" social media business as an influencer and had products featured in Sephora.

She didn't want to go to college. She would have been better off just doing what she was doing.

The daughter withdrew from school.

I read that many of their friends are distancing themselves. It was said that they were not part of a crime, they are the crime.

I wonder if Huffman, Loughlin knew about each other?


Loughlin's husband is a fashion designer. I wonder how this will effect his business?

Mossimo Giannulli has a net worth of $80 million.


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Elmer J Fudd

"..... What is really sad is that Olivia Jade.......

eld6161, was this the little stuck-up you know what who said she was interested in parties and game days but not classes? Any kid of mine talking like that would be banished from the family kingdom. I can't wish enough bad things for someone with an attitude like that, and the same for parents who produced that. What an embarrassment and poor excuse for a young lady.

I saw an article that some were leaving USC because of fear of "bullying". I think this was her too, are you frigging kidding me with a comment like that?

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eld6161

Elmer, sad for the whole situation.

Sorry, but I don't feel anger at these young adults.

Wishing bad things? Take a deep breath here.......

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Elmer J Fudd

Being from the LA area and having known a lot of show business phonies there and much of the same but in the tech world of Silicon Valley, I don't have patience for people who are full of themselves and have attitudes of entitlement. None. No deep breathing is necessary, it's familiar but no less intolerable.


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maddielee

When Olivia Jade made her comments about not caring to go to school it was August 2018. Before she started school. One thing that is not getting the same kind of coverage is that within a few days (after her followers told her off) she did apologize for her comments.

”“I said something super ignorant and stupid, basically," Olivia Jade said in the video,titled “I’m Sorry,” before adding: “I’m really disappointed in myself."

Just thought some people may have missed that fact.

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Elmer J Fudd

That's gotten common, the translation is "I'm sorry there was a negative reaction to what I said".

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terilyn

As y’all know, I am a huge When Calls the Heart fan, went to Vancouver last fall for their weekend. I am extremely disappointed and outraged by everyone involved. Lori’s actions have impacted so many others that have families to support. Her movie series has been shut down, the show, that has already been filmed has been suspended from the network. Her children knew exactly what was going on, they were cc’d in emails approving the fake pictures. I am so sad for all of the other cast and crews of her projects that are out of work because of her actions.

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eld6161

Exactly, Teri.

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arcy_gw

Those were my thoughts about the residuals of "Full House" that is no longer being played on Netflix. Sooo selfish. Even if they all sued her--there isn't enough money. This entire "influencer" phenom makes me ILL. I work with teens, I have heard their immature ooooing and awwwing over the ridiculous posts these types put out on the WWW. Such a load of drivel and ostentatious garbage!!! What a ridiculous world we live in.

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rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7

I have never been a follower of those Hallmark series or Loughlin's other work, but I would think that the story should be strong enough to withstand a change of cast or an alteration of the storyline. Both have been done successfully.

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eld6161

I agree Rhizo. (BTW, how are you doing?)


I don't follow those shows and had no idea that she was actively working and hada huge fan base.

That said, people can be replaced. It's interesting that they usually write something in, or "kill" the character off etc. Why not just replace her? Why does it have to be a sister or friend? This is all make believe for goodness sake.

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sjerin

You are right on the money as to what "sorry" often means, uttered by a famous person/people, Elmer. The other one is "I made a mistake" in place of what should have been an abject apology.

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Elmer J Fudd

As popularized by Bill Clinton during the Monica Lewinsky matter, when he said, maybe not in these exact words, "I'm very sorry". There was no doubt that this utterance was not an expression of personal contrition but rather what he was saying was "I'm very sorry I was caught".

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Elizabeth

They might as well just say that they are sorry that they hurt themselves and their careers. That is what they really feel badly about.

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Elizabeth

I think the celebrities will suffer job loss and money loss but as far as consequences go I imagine they will get probation. White collar crime...public not in danger.

It is a shame they hurt so many others who counted on their jobs, paychecks or residuals. ( Basis for lawsuits? )

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maddielee

Interesting. I’m wondering if anyone else says they are sorry because they realize they made a mistake or have offended/hurt another person. I know I have.

Maybe well known people are never allowed to make mistakes?

I find the whole “Varsity Blues” scandal to be very sad. Even sadder is that it’s not surprising.

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Elmer J Fudd

"Maybe well known people are never allowed to make mistakes?"

For me, you've misstated and maybe even missed the issue. Reread my comment re Bill Clinton just a few up from here. THAT is what's going on.

Add in, "not only did my unlawful behavior of bribery and tax evasion (that I did willfully and in full knowledge of possible consequences) get caught with embarrassing and expensive consequences I need to face, I may have killed my glamorous career too. I'm truly sorry"

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ladypat1

What did they tell their kids? " Darlin' you are just dumber than a box of rocks, but we're gonna send lots of money to get you into college." (Pats child on head and smiles).

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eld6161

I can't understand this. You are in cahoots cheating with your child.

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graywings123

There are opinion pieces coming out now about how these actors can come back from this over time, as the public is fairly forgiving.


How are the #metoo men doing? O'Reilly? Matt Lauer? Garrison Keillor?

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eld6161

O'Reilly is involved in some sort of programming. The other two, no.

I read a few of the article, Gray. I am not so sure. There are so many equally talented actors, why hire tainted?

The daughter, Olivia, is through with her career as an influencer. She had a good thing going. Who is going to believe a cheater?

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graywings123

You think Olivia's influencer career is over? I don't know. Maybe the subgroup that follows her doesn't care about this. Time will tell.

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Feathers11

Yes, I think the children of this scandal will be fine, because this whole spectacle is being perceived as conjured up by desperate parents willing to pay for something their kids may or may not even want.

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eld6161

However, Loughlin's DD's were in on it. But, who knows how all this works? Maybe Olivia can still make money directly from her fan base?

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arcy_gw

I am going to surmise those influenced by the likes of Olivia are not at all in the same galaxy where lying/cheating/false impressions are a thing to be concerned about.

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graywings123

That is probably too broad a statement to make about all young followers, Arcy.


The corporations who supported her have departed. So maybe we watch for her to put out her own line of makeup? Sold exclusively on-line?

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Elmer J Fudd

I agree with arcy. The brainless young people paying attention to morons like her are probably a lost cause anyway. Those influenced by mindless, superficial fluff from show biz or otherwise wealthy princess brats missed the right kind of parenting at important times. Or, maybe indeed their parents are similarly afflicted as voyeurs of people who are "famous because of being famous" but otherwise devoid of substance, like the K family, etc.

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kadefol

This is an interesting story straight from Olivia Jade's mouth:


He has a really crazy story in college,” the YouTube star, 19, said in an interview on the Zach Sang Show
on Friday, March 8. “He, like, built his whole entire brand [Mossimo
Supply Co.] and he wasn’t actually, like, ever … enrolled in college.”

Olivia continued: “But he, like, faked his way through it and then he
started his whole business with tuition money that his parents thought
[was] going to college. That’s, like, such a different time. I don’t
know if I was supposed to say that, but it’s OK.”

Mossimo Giannulli ‘Faked His Way Through’ College


Now granted, due to his business acumen he is a very rich man, but he lied to his parents and apparently thought that was perfectly fine.

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