well that's convenient. do you remember what kinda warranty? i've never been somebody that changes oil in my mowers, like this 1, check and add as needed.

www.briggsandstratton.com/na/en_us/campaigns/just-check-and-add.html

www.youtube.com/watch?v=e53TI8CUpd8

Depends on your expectations , no oil changes the engine will survive until out of warranty . Then your on borrowed time 6 yrs max ! lol.

Warranty and lifetime are definitely the key words here. When the maintenance schedule for your car doesn't list a transmission DNR, do you do it anyways or assume they know best? The manufacture's first concern is warranty $$ and the second providing a reasonable lifetime for the product to maintain a given image of quality. The latter is certainly linked to the current run, drive, toss, repeat that many of us have. I've been fortunate not to have a car payment for many years. But I know those that do and as the payments are about to end , repeat the cycle over again. I'm too frugal.

The engines for most folks with these 20 minute lawn cutting sessions will have a running mower for as long as they want it - provided they handle the fuel care properly and change an air filter every so often. I tell these people all the time at least have it serviced every other year. It's better than nothing. The truth is you rarely have a lubrication related failure on OPE unless it is lack of lube in the sump. Especially on WPMs . These same folks "OPE plan" is to run it until it drops, rinse and repeat. So in short, this is where we are at.

For me fortunately there are others that take care of things in life and pay me to do it. Over a decade they may pay for that mower several times over , but it completes the cycle of being an adult in caring for their home they way they care for their family. One could argue financially it makes more sense to mow with these tuna cans on wheels, recycle and repeat. There just seems to be different mindsets at work here...

• Obviously Tom the customer with 100 hr mower life expectations with a small lawn will not encounter potential cam and crank or rod bearing failures due to oil breakdown . I practice your clients theory of maintain and service properly .These EX Model Briggs have been out for over 3 yrs and are installed on the box store models , they have failed miserably within severe service applications for obvious reasons . That is why I went with the Kawi in my new Toro Comercial mower . I use Amsoil oil in numerous recreational applications . They advertise 10,000 MIle syn oil usage . I would in no way run any oil to that excessive mileage in any engine , especially straight 30 mineral oil in an aircooled lawnmower engine . . I find it interesting that their basing much of the newer engine merits on their new automotive style canister air filter design . It may prevent ambient dirt oil contamination , however will do nothing to prevent internal engine damage from thermal oil breakdown over time .

You know, probably over kill since I use my Cub rider mostly and the Toro around the perimeter and sometimes the front but it costs may $15 and 15 minutes to change the oil plug and filter each year. I don't get it? Are these new engines crap even if you DO change the oil?

No. Just different. From a lifespan point of view, built more to the anticipated life span of the equipment. Remember the days when you had that perfectly running mower engine and the deck rusted away so you had to make that decision of looking for another deck? I've never heard anything different than 7 years as the amount of time it takes for an average consumer to replace their mower. It's been like that for years.

The EX engine that ewalk mentioned is a classic example of this. Some Kohlers have the sticker too btw. Speaking of Kohler- air filter systems, they are all over the map. Both the little 4" XT air filters and Courage / Confident twin air filters are way too small and need more frequent service or replacement.

Let me ask another way...if these new type 'no oil changers' become the norm..and if I change the oil every year anyway...can I expect the engine to last as long as the current crop of engines that require oid changes? In other words are they engineering these new suckers to crap out sooner regardless...

It still seems to be the same race. From a dependability standpoint, it is still fuel care or lack there of that brings them into the shop. Yes, changing the oil is a good thing. Dependable air filtration, some are better than others. Many warped covers on the cheap Kohlers. Briggs paper seems better. The cooling fins seem to stay cleaner and are more accessible on many of the OHVs. You look at the engineish thing and wonder where the quality went. The starter is plastic not some tough metal housing thing. It's like the car you went to high school in had lots more metal and everything was more serviceable than the car you drive today. Yes the new car starts at a push of a button and is dependable. The rope comes out once or twice and you have a running mower. The answer may be that with reasonable care it will last as long as you wish or need it to mechanically. Engine mechanical still has very few issues. What hurts is 40/ 50$ carburetors on a 129$ engine which is on a 199$ mower. Couple that with labor and misc, you've just paid more than you bought the mower for. At least on basic walk behind mowers. I think that's in the end what the angst is about for many.

In summary , change oil at the beginning of the yr and keep the air filter clean along with fresh conditioned fuel and you should have ten yrs of service from these cheaper mowers . The decks and wheel assemblies are the real weak points . Keep the decks clean and wheel shafts lubricated . If you have more than 2-3 hrs mowing then purchase a rider or commercial walk behind .

My neighbor got a 'no oil change' Toro two years ago, and I guess he hasn't changed the oil yet. This is the same guy who bought a beautiful new 'Gold Pro' Lawn-Boy in 1994 with the 'F' engine and ran it on 'choke' every time, until the exhaust ports and muffler filled up with carbon and it wouldn't run. At the time, I just did not know he was doing that and I thought he was over-oiling, which he vehemently denied ( I had never owned a LB at that time and didn't realize what he was doing until I got a 10301 years later). Anyway, he took it apart himself and naturally couldn't get it back together. He took the thing to the mower shop in a bag and came home with a 4-cycle whatever. Naturally Lawn-Boy was now a bad word to him. He is also the king of 'let it get too tall, then cut it too short' so he kills off his lawn every year. He has an irrigation system but doesn't always use it when it gets hot and dry. Then he pays a lawn service to spray four times a year plus has the yard aerated, seeded and fertilized every fall.

This is the guy who will be attracted by not having to spend 20 minutes and $5 once a year to change the oil. Meanwhile I'm freshening up a 30 yr old mower that while relatives have been using it since 1996, I have always maintained it. I am now using Castrol Edge synthetic 10W-30 (High Mileage) in it. I just changed the oil yesterday after a year and it was right up on the stick and really looked fine to stay in.

I think on the Toros they know that 95% of the customers will not be able to keep a mower going for more than five years, and with synthetic oil and a good air filter, they are good for five years. What happens is people treat them pretty bad, leave them out in the weather, never do basic maintenance, never sharpen the blade, etc., etc., so the mowers develop problems and they get a new one.

The picture of the 1989 Homelite-Jacobsen above is older - it doesn't look that good anymore but is still doing the job on a small yard.

I think we all have met someone like your neighbour Sax , keeps the local economy rolling !

'keeps the local economy rolling'

You can say that again. I've probably spent $250 so far this spring fixing up my own mowers plus two others for relatives. Plus I just bought a riding mower lift for my little rear-engine 30" so I could get take care of the blade, spindle and grease points. I guess I'm lucky to be able to do this for them. Just thinking, when the old B&S finally throws a rod on the Homelite-Jacobsen, I guess I'm going to be finally through with it. Hate to trash that deck which is the greatest little bagger I've seen, but its time to move on. Just my luck the thing won't die for 10 more years!

10 yrs will give you time to prepare for the separation anxiety Bud ! lol.

I have this TORO mower. After two years the oil on the dipstick is clear! There is no choke, no prime and electric start. Never failed!

Well, I still have the Homelite but it's starting to rattle under a load, so I think its about time to let it go across the Rainbow Bridge! And my neighbor still has the 'no oil change' mower.

I just don't get the "Newer Mentality" small-engines!!

(I'm 61 now)

Grew up farming in Eastern ND. Since my early teen years, was helping maintain stuff. In 1975, Dad got a big STEIGER Turbo-Tiger II center-pivot tractor (made in Fargo btw!!!). Big Cummins 903 Turbo-Diesel. 250 ?? Gal fuel-tank. Changing oil on this involved crawling underneath to drain it, & refilling with SIX GALLONS of new Oil!! Then the O/C's on all the other Tractors, Trucks, Combines, Swathers......UFFDA.

I've changed so much Oil on stuff that OPEC should recognize me!

Anywho.....the "No O/C" engines now do burn some oil by design. You HAVE TO add periodically. In essence, you're doing a continuous O/C! I work at an Upscale Hardware, Furniture, Paint, & Power-Equipment store. We sell lots of TORO, STIHL, Ariens, etc.

Faron

PS-

My previous Snowblower went 26 years...a 1996 MTD-Huskee 8hp Tecumseh 26" cut. Seafoam use & NO-Ethanol Certified-Top-Tier Premium is your friend people!!