Sunshimmer, as you can see, I was having posting problems. I hope your Charlene does great things for you. I notice some of the nurseries in colder zones continue to sell it, and that's always a good sign. Northland and it's sister, Rosarium Garden Center are in my area, but higher elevation, colder and windier, sell it.

My Princess Charlene de Monaco came through winter, unprotected with flying colors. There was no die back, and it has two canes pruned to about 14" as I post here.

This past winter was not a rugged test of the winter hardiness of any of my unprotected roses. The lowest temp reached was 5°F, not the expected -5°F, and only a few brief spells that low occurred, also. So this winter's severity was more like zone 7b here, than my listed 6b. No much anticipated severe damage or deaths occurred at all. All the roses had healthy canes with white piths. No black canes, not even one.

Next winter may be the test year for my new no winter protection project. Will see.

Moses

In my only one-season experience of four PCDM growing as short climbers, they have been slow growers and rather stingy bloomers. But it’s a bit too soon to judge as they are still young. However the disease resistance has been good being in a hot and humid afternoon sun only location.

My winter here in east central pa has been quite exceptional as well. Only two very small snow storms of less than 2 inches, which is unheard of here. Warm enough to be mostly rainfall most of the winter instead of snow.

I ordered Charlene from Northland and can't wait to get her.

I always buy own root in case our harsh winters top kill them which has happened in the past. I have noticed the own root do take a very long time, sometimes 3-4 years, to really get going. I mostly grow climbers with a few HTs and others here and there. But even those can be wimpy and take forever to get going the first 2-3 years as well, no matter how much fertilizer, compost, and spraying I do.

So I've learned to buy the most disease resistant roses I can since blackspot defoliates everything here even with routine spraying, and hope I end up with a somewhat decent looking bush with hopefully a few nice blooms. It's the most I can hope for at this point.

Can anyone give updates on their PCdM? I'm ready to plant and am curious to hear more! :)

For Southern California, I get a decent spring bloom at about 7' tall. They do tend to fade out quickly. Then out springs this super upright non-blooming growth topping out a about 9' or more. I think there's better for my garden space.

PCdM is best in partial shade. I regret planting mine in full-sun, the color fades to white.

It needs ungodly amount of calcium for its thick petals to produce blooms. So I use biochar with soluble calcium and potassium. Mine is 4th year own-root, now is at least 7 feet tall in its 2nd flush. I brutally chop it short after 1st flush, but it shot up tall. I post pics. of the 1st flush, since the 2nd flush is too tall for pics. It's best with zero nitrogen but high in calcium and potassium for 2nd flush. It had at least 2 feet of green cane this past zone 5 winter, 100% healthy for the past 4 years:

Hugogurll - thank you for your comment, it seems to get very tall everywhere. Wish I would've waited to order.

Strawchicago - thank you for your comment also, I am totally rearranging things to find a place for such a tall rose that is not that wide with afternoon shade. Love to hear it likes the cold! Your pictures are very beautiful.

Hugogurll - That's huge but I hear alot of roses grown in the warm sun of California are monsters. I'm having second thoughts. Boo!

Strawchicago - Your zone is closer to mine and yours too, gets very tall. It's unfortunate it fades to white, as I have a small section of my garden for white/peach roses (PJPII, Bolero, Shropshire Lad, Penelope (Love this rose), Moonlight in Paris, Eustacia Vye and now PCdM. I usually plant bold colors because my garden is about 50' from the house, so everything pale looks white. So for you, this rose is 7' tall and 2' wide?

PcDM is 7' tall and 3' wide ... much wider than Dee-lish. In its first year as own-root, there's a central cane of PcDM which is unproductive and shot up twice taller than the rest. I brutally pruned that short to the same height as other canes and that improved blooming.

Straw, mine is nothing like yours. The one waiting in the garage got planted, but she just dwindled away. The one already in the ground gave me a great first season, and was a good winter survivor, but has since been a disappointment. She's shorter than last year and has hardly bloomed. I'm going to blame it partially on this horrifically hot summer, and hope she does better when it cools off. Her first year was promising, so I'm flummoxed by the change.

Mine is new, she has tall canes and plenty of them, but very few blooms in a pot...she is on a south wall. I am wondering if high in calcium and potassium would help mine and maybe your Flowers?

Ann, you are probably right. PCdM has not been fed this year. I didn't get finished feeding when the triple digit heat hit, so I stopped. She's just hungry!

My clay is rock hard and high in magnesium which makes clay clumps together into chunks bigger than grapefruits. Before planting PcDM I put 10 cups of gypsum (calcium sulfate) to break up my clay & make it loamy. The 20% of sulfur in gypsum helps with growth. Sulfur is from rain, decayed organics or minerals such as gypsum, sulfate of potash.

First year PcDM gave big bloom with lots of petals thanks to calcium, plus sulfur for deeper colors:

What I did wrong was to top PcDM with alkaline-bagged clay (pH 8.5) plus wood chips which decompose to alkaline, that glued up into cement-blocks on top of PcDM. Blooms became smaller since water can't go through the cement-blocks on top. I used a pitch-fork to pry the dry & hardened clay on top, and replaced with potting soil mixed with biochar (high in soluble calcium and potassium), that allows more water to go deep down, so blooms get larger & deeper color.

PcDM is healthy & light-green leaves so roots don't produce enough acid for blooming nor to make clay fluffy for water-retention. It's similar to St. Cecilia (light-green) leaves, both benefit from gypsum (with sulfur) in the planting hole to make clay fluffy. Sulfur is essential for plant's growth plus dark-green leaves.

PcDM is stingy due to its roots can't produce acid to digest minerals in soil. It's best fed with SOLUBLE fertilizer.

It consumes lots of calcium plus sulfur to grow tall canes, so if there is NO rain to provide sulfur, then gypsum should be mixed on the top soil. Rose park here frequently top their soil with gypsum, but they placed gypsum on the wrong rose that produces too much acid (Meilland Pink Traviata) with dark-green leaves, that came down with RRD.

Hi Straw, so do you recommend a soil test before using amendments? Does biochar work with all roses or just certain ones? I'm trying to get more saturated colors in my roses, and purple out of Big Purple, would sulfur help with that? I'm in z5aWI with 46" average rainfall (not this year).

Do you have sticky & dense clay, loamy & fluffy soil, or sandy soil? With 46" average rainfall, that will leach out calcium big time. My soil pH is 7.7 (lots of dolomitic rocks that raise the pH), sticky black clay tested high in magnesium, and soil test recommends gypsum (calcium sulfate).

Gypsum does not change soil pH is applied months in advance to let the acid (sulfur) pass down to below. With high rain, gypsum is so acidic that it corrodes roots instantly, so I never apply gypsum directly on roses (induced instant blackspots when I did so).

Recent years we get over 40" of rain plus my six 50-gallon rain-barrels, so I use lime pellets on top of certain own root roses that like alkaline, and the result is fantastic.

Potassium shifts bloom color to the purple range, so sulfate of potash always make my Big Purple (8th-year-own-root) more purple. It died in 2019, and I got a 2nd one to replace.

Figuring out my soil is half of my problem! I know the soil is officially silty, sandy loam and rocky. But there is topsoil that was brought in for flower beds. Is there an easy way to test soil in the place you are going to plant a rose, without paying for a soil test for every spot? One really weird thing to me is that our soil is very, very hard to dig in when it is dry (about an hour to dig a 1x1x1 hole) but very fast when it is wet/moist.

Ann: sounds like your soil is high in magnesium, and deficient in calcium. Calcium is what separates soil particle and makes it fluffy. Desert sand is high in calcium and phosphorus: calcium makes soil loose and fluffy, and phosphorus mobility is best in sandy soil.

My black gumbo clay at pH 7.7 was tested exceedingly high in magnesium .. my clay is impossible to dig when it's dry, but becomes wet mud (easy to dig) after rain. One year I put the entire 40 lb. bag of gypsum (calcium sulfate) to break up my rock-hard clay. A year later that place became fluffy like sand, but it could not hold moisture like previous sticky clay !!

Lesson learned, I only put gypsum AT THE BOTTOM of poor-drainage clay to speed up drainage, but not too much on top since I want a good ratio of magnesium to hold moisture. Magnesium is what makes clay sticky & glue particles together, and calcium is what separates soil particles & make it fluffy.

Calcium leaches out from soil during high-rain more so than magnesium and potassium. So what's left on top is sticky magnesium which makes it hard to dig when dry. Sulfur also leaches out during watering, and plants with less sulfur become stunt with pale leaves.

Straw, I would say my soil is towards the clay with limestone below. It's in a raised bed one railroad tie high, brought in top soil. It drains alright after 15-20 minutes. I'm trying to improve it with compost and manure. I will get a soil test done.

I will try the sulfate of potash though for Big Purple own root that I just planted. My Twilight Zone is a very pretty purple and has been flowering all summer with only fertilizer, so I'm good with that color. It's just been way too dry and warmer than usual this summer.

We are having a good old California style downpour right now, and I hope that provides PCdM with what she needs to perk up. I really hate to dig her up and replant her with gypsum at the bottom of the hole. I'm never sure how to use gypsum correctly. I know it's not good to mix with my soil, or to top dress with it, but getting it to the bottom of the hole would be a whole day's job for me.

Two days of cooler weather (88˚ yesterday, 72˚ today) plus rain, is such a relief. Headed back up, but this is so nice. Well, the downpour lasted all of 5 minutes.

Flowers (Andrea): Good news is that calcium leaches easily downward, more so than potassium and magnesium (I spent 1 hr. checking on-line). What I did to PcdM this week was to pry off the hardened clay on top and replace it with fluffy soil (pre-mixed with gypsum).

I have a spot where I put hardened-clay and work in gypsum .. after a few rains the soil becomes fluffy and I use it to top roses.

The color of PcDm went from white to deeper pink, will post pics. later. In months of no-rain like August and Sept., the alfalfa meal topping glued up with my clay into cement blocks, blocking water from reaching down.

Gypsum has sulfur (rain also supplies sulfur), and the sulfur in gypsum makes calcium SOLUBLE to move downward to roots. Potting soil also becomes hardened without rain, so I have to mix in gypsum in advance to make potting soil fluffy.

Gypsum softens soil, versus hydrated lime (in my alkaline tap water at pH 9) hardens soil. Carol put Garden Lime (11% magnesium and 22% calcium) on top of her pots to neutralize the acidity of alfalfa pellets, and she also reported lime hardens the top of her pots.

Calcium and sulfur leach down fast with watering, so what's left above is sticky magnesium which hardens soil on top. Nearby alkaline rose park top-dressed their roses with gypsum in spring.

About how much Gypsum for a 2 gallon pot or 1/2 gallon of water?

Our soil sure does seem weirdly sticky, which is weird for being silty sandy...the high magnesium makes sense and I my fight with blossom end rot.

Also would oyster shells be okay around roses because our ducks won't eat them. Like 1 cup or so?

For 2 gallon pot, I use 2/3 cup gypsum (1/3 cup per 1 gallon). For 1/2 gallon of water, I use 1/2 TBS of gypsum since it releases its acid (sulfur) fast in a solution, less is best.

When I root roses, I follow U. of CA at Davis instruction of 1/2 coarse sand and 1/2 vermiculite .. it's fluffy yet hold moisture. I left that fluffy-mix outside for 1 year, and the acidic rain washes down the calcium .. I found whitish powder oozing out of the bottom of pots.

I was about to re-use that fluffy soil mix, but it got hardened, so I had to mix in gypsum to make it fluffy again.

Alkaline soil can be fluffy IF high in calcium (like desert sand being high in both calcium and phosphorus). Acidic soil gets sticky and hard when rain leaches out calcium, leaving behind magnesium and potassium on top. Calcium leaches out faster than magnesium and potassium.

When our house was first built in 2000, it was brand new top soil around the house. New top soil is rich in nitrogen and calcium .. I planted tiny trees and they shot up to over 30 feet fast. I didn't have much dandelions back then with alkaline clay (rich in calcium).

Fast forward to 2021, with 2 decades of high rain (at least 38" rain plus 23" of snow), plus my 6 rain-barrels, the dandelions become invasive. Googled and found that dandelions thrive in acidic clay, so I spread 50 lb. of pelletized lime (100% calcium, no magnesium) on my lawn. Dandelions gone instantly. Previous years my hands bled from digging up hundreds of dandelions despite using spreader for Weed & Feed lawn fertilizer 4 times per year.

Alkaline clay can be fluffy IF high in calcium like the bagged top-soil I got from Ace Hardware. I tested its pH using red cabbage juice and it's near pH 9 (that of Lime).

Clay here is high in magnesium so it's VERY STICKY and clumps together in hard chunks (the size of lemons and grapefruits) .. so Ace's bagged soil solved that problem by adding cheap lime (100% calcium) to make soil fluffy. This soil made my grass 3 times taller and much darker-green, thanks to the calcium added. Farmers in the Mid-west routinely use lime in spring to boost nitrogen fertilizer.

I bought Oyster shell from Amazon and tested it by soaking in acidic rain water (pH 4.5) for 1 week, it didn't dissolve. In contrast, pelletized lime (100% calcium) dissolved instantly in rain-water, same with Garden lime dust (22% calcium and 12% magnesium). Stores here are sold out fast on pelletized lime (husband got me 2 bags since they were wiped out, cheap at $5 per 50 lb.).

For ALKALINE and sticky clay, gypsum (calcium sulfate) is best. My clay is acidic on top (where rain water could not drain well), but alkaline at bottom with dolomitic stones. So I use gypsum at bottom of the planting hole to corrode the rocks for faster drainage. My neighbor made a mistake of spreading acidic gypsum ON HER GRASS and it CORRODED the roots of her grass .. they came down with fungal diseases. Same with my mistake of spreading gypsum on top of roses during acidic rain .. too much acid and roses broke out immediately in blackspots.

Here's a bouquet of Princess Charlene de Monaco picked this August 6, colors turn darker after I pry off the cement chunks of high-magnesium clay, and replaced with fluffy soil mixed with biochar (high in calcium and potassium). PcdM opens all 10+ blooms at once in this hot August:

PcDM are the pinks upper. Dark pinks are Dee-lish. Yellows are Moonlight Romantica. Blue is Poseidon. Dee-lish and Poseidon are continuous bloomers since blooms open one at a time. Pic. taken this August 6:

I got Calcium and Potassium put on PcdM this morning. I think there is something more going on there...but not sure what...but since she is healthy just no blooms, I'm going to see what the calcium and potassium do first.

For own-roots: With light green and healthy leaves like PcdM, Charles Darwin and Frederic Mistral, SOLUBLE fertilizer is best. These super-healthy roses don't produce enough acid to dissolve calcium and potassium into SOLUBLES for plant-uptake, and they need to be doused with SOLUBLE fertilizer high in acidic sulfates.

Frederic Mistral was very stingy like 3 blooms per year, then I doused it with sulfate of potash/gypsum dissolved in my alkaline-tap water at pH 9, and it broke out in 40 blooms for spring flush, below pic. was taken when it was under a roof-overhang receiving only 20% of rain, plus I didn't have rain-barrels back then:

The heavy bloomers but blackspot-prone like Double Delight, Carding Mill, Intrigue (dark green leaves) prefer alkaline lime rather than gypsum. Carding Mill's soil is always fluffy at the top 2 feet (its roots produce lots of acid to make minerals soluble for blooming), and it's more healthy & more petals in blooms if topped with Garden Lime.

CONCLUSION: for the stingy but healthy roses (esp. with light-green leaves) like PcDM, I use acidic fertilizers (gypsum and sulfate of potash). For the constant-bloom but BS-prone like Carding Mill, I use Garden Lime.

Thank you, Straw, for help with PCdM. Yours is how I wish mine looked. I can work on her today while the soil is easy to dig. The downpour was short, but it misted all day, so the soil is moist, but not wet. I know she can be better than she is. I'm making up some fluffy soil for her. If that doesn't get results, I'll give her a light dose of acidic fertilizer. It's late in the year for more than a light application.

The rain, plus cooler temps, then headed back up to hot weather will be good for the roses last hurrah going into August and September.

Well...I guess PcdM was blooming all along, just kind of small...Those tags were just hidden by leaves....It was Liv Tyler that was right next to PcdM that wasn't blooming. I put lime and sulfur in the pot that had no blooms (Liv Tyler).

Liv Tyler has dark green leaves and bloomed well with my alkaline clay at pH 7.7. It likes dense clay. I fertilized it with sulfate of potash and gypsum to fix my alkaline tap water at pH 9. It has firm petals so it needs calcium, and dark-green leaves mean alkaline pH:

Lucky, I put the same thing on it! We'll see if it flushes after this heat wave or not.

I gave one to my mom and it looked beautiful the summer she planted it, but I don't think it survived the winter. Seems a bit tender for zone 5.

Aaron Rosarian Zone 5b This is the worst winter in over a decade for both mid-west and east coast with mid-April tons of freezing rain.

In my zone 5a, it got down to 20 F this mid-April (plus tons of freezing rain), then another freeze in early May. From now on, I put all the 1st-year own-root in "buckets" or "yard-waste-collar" filled with wood chips up to 1 foot, plus digging deep (at least down to 2.5 feet) for fast drainage to cope with the heavy freezing rain that kills roses.

My 5th-year own-root Princess Charlene survives this winter at 7 inch. of cane, it's the light green bush (behind dark green leaves Dee-lish) in the left margin of pic. Pic. taken May 19, 2022:

Thanks for the validation @strawchicago z5--I was feeling really sad about all the roses that my mother and I both lost this year. My sister and I both lost our margaret merills (I gave her one as a memorial rose for her dog she had to put down and it's just so sad that it didn't make it), many of my HTs did terribly. Queen of Sweden is down to within a foot, PcDC may have died entirely. I'll do the bucket trick from now on--I got cocky after last year's mild winter where everything made it just fine. Strangely enough my Nahema had absolutely no issue other than being attacked by rabbits. I'll just get more :p

I have 6 that look to be dead, Bolero, Moonlight in Paris, Urdh, Elle, Chartreuse de Parme and Eustacia Vye has just a little bit of green cane with brown below it to the ground so probably a goner. It got down to -18 here z5a WI. All were planted last year except Elle and CdP.

Nola: Thank you for your honest report of roses dying through this worst winter. Bolero died on me after a few years before. I'm on my 3rd Bolero. It has short root as a floribunda.

I dug out 5 dead ones (planted last year): Golden Celebration, Leander, Teasing Georgia, Pretty Lady Rose, Big Purple. These suffered through Feb's -23 F below zero, plus tons of freezing rain in April (down to 20 F) turned the canes all black.

It must be the bad winter of this year, since my 1st Big Purple lived for 8 years as own-root. My 1st Golden Celebration (11th-year-own-root) has 2 feet of green cane this winter, but the newly bought 2nd Golden Celebration died on a raised bed (-23 below zero is too cold for raised bed).

I counted 8 half-dead trees while taking a 10 min. walk around my neighborhood. Tons of freezing rain in poor drainage clay can kill decade-old trees. Got five of my 20-year-old trees chopped down (2 willow trees, 2 river birch, and one white birch).

I'm happy since I have more sun and space, and I'm excited about a 6th tree (white pine) being chopped down this weekend.

I am a bit disappointed in my PCdM so far. It was sold to me as a bareroot, small and weak, and still has no buds, unlike those around it from other breeders and vendors. It is suspectible to powerdy mildew and the leaves can be weirdly crinkled. Is it a good repeat bloomer/continous bloomer? How many blooms/flushes does it get? What is the smell like? From the comments above, it seems like it might require a lot of work, when compared to something like Olivia Rose Austin that just survives? Is it really worth it to keep trying with it or is better to S/P?

My PCDM was a decent bare root and put on a lot of growth the first two years, but not many blooms. This is year 3, and it has exploded in buds and blooms and is a marvel. It is fragrant. My friend, on the other hand, got all the buds & blooms right away on hers. Hers gets morning sun and is near her compost pile. Mine gets afternoon soon and is near my patio. I'll see if I can post a photo.

That’s impressionist in front - not ideal photo.

Mine has been a great bloomer. It seems to always be blooming for me with the shortest rest between flushes.It definitely prefers full sun. It can get a tiny bit of powdery mildew but it hasn't been a big problen for me.

Here it is at the end of its second seasonseason. It was plantedplanted in May of it's firstfirstyear as a own root from a 1quart pot. I'm 5'9. The one I have growing in part shade is much smaller and does.n't bloom as much.

First flush in it's second year.

I love this rose.

Please forgive the gremlins.

Librarian - Is it really as tall as you?

It was taller than me by the end of the season.

A local nursery had PCdM (I wish I had picked one up!) and in the nursery pots, they were 6' tall. They looked like climbers to me at the time - so I was not sure they were in fact PCdMs. They were.

I can't believe I haven't replied to this thread before! I must have missed it. I have 5 PCdM planted in the absolute prime spot in my garden...that's how much I love the blooms. They grow very tall and upright, usually 6 feet tall by the end of the season, but they get pruned back rather hard after each flush.

How many flushes? Well, they are still technically new in my garden....this will be their third season this year. The first flush is magnificent....HUGE flowers! So gorgeous and so scented. Also, they last a very long time in the vase, with nice stiff stems which hold the flowers very well. I usually have about three flushes a season, which is a lot for my cool, part shade PNW garden. So far, the second and third flush's flowers have not equalled the first. And even in my relatively cool garden, she does bleach in the hot sun after the blooms have been on the plant for a while.

The foliage of this rose is not its strong suit. It does get crinkly and mildew-y as the season progresses, but I notice it's getting better and better as the rose matures. I think if I fertilize with seaweed, it may help....will be doing that this year (we use rosetone as well). My plants have regular water from an irrigation system.

Close ups of the first-flush blooms:

I'm sorry I don't have any pictures of the whole bush....they're planted at the back of the border and for some reason, I didn't take many pictures of them.

Here, PCdM is growing in the back left...that is a standard 'Sexy Rexy' on the right. This picture was taken in mid September.

The Princesse (taken either this morning or yesterday evening).

Deborah, she's an exquisite pink. Lovely, fluffy blooms. Yum. Diane

Deborah....your princess is gorgeous!! I never get those deep pink tones. I think this rose likes the heat and sun. I have it planted in my sunniest spot, but it's still only part sun.

I was so sad when we lost our huge old oak tree in front -- but now I am giddy with happiness at all the roses doing so well (either new since we lost oak, or were there, but didn't ever "shine" while competing with oak roots and getting shaded). Moondance has taken off like never before, and it's been there a while. the Princesse was planted just before oak came out -- so it's probably a combo of settling in AND not getting the oak influence. I have a hot cocoa nearby -- and it's looking very orange right now. I hope it cools off a bit, and then PCdM can also go a little more apricot-y.

Trees are the bane of my existence, and we've been spending a fortune since 2019 on pruning, limbing up, and removing trees. This is what happens when landscapers run amok and you have no control over their dumb decisions. Sorry, Deborah. This doesn't apply to your large oak, a completely different thing. But trees and roses don't mix well. I'm glad you are having a rose revival, a wonderful dividend to the sad loss of a tree you liked. I'm just trying to hold onto several Evelyn's that are being ruined by trees. Diane

I can imagine your concern. Evelyns are pretty much irreplaceable these days. I had to move mine and she wilted. I thought it was the end, and I realized just how hard it would be to find a new one. But now she is coming back with a new leaves and a bud so here's hoping she's going to make it, but she wouldn't have lasted in her old spot either... So many people love that rose. It's too bad that finding one has become like the Holy Grail of rose quests... All these pics of Princesse Charlene de Monaco are so pretty! Will see if a little TLC will get mine to flourish.

My Evelyn (cutting from Straw) has two buds on it! Also some blackspot -- but we've had an abnormally wet winter. I'm hoping I get to join the Evelyn club soon! :-)