Oh wow. I just smelled the stipules on a baby Grandmother's Hat I got from Annie's (I know, in Seattle she might blackspot -- but I have a super sunny hot spot for her where I want something pink, so we will see). I get the cedar scent, but also cardamom! So cool!

It's been years since I (briefly, alas) had Grandmother's Hat, but I still remember the downward habit of the leaves, and a certain sturdy texture to the leaves which seemed different from the other roses I had and which I really liked. I should have given the rose a few years to show what it could do, but sadly I discarded so many roses after their first year.

We were fortunate enough to be given it as a well-grown plant, by a man we really respected -- and this, long before anyone much had heard of it. So we've had decades to enjoy this wonderful rose.

Jeri, that is most descriptive I have seen describing a part of a plant, if people want ID's of a plant they should enlist your help, beautiful photography

Thanks David. Roses can be so sneaky . . . :-)

This is wonderful information thank you!!! My GH is under snow but I'll be sniffing as soon as I'm able.

Well, I'm saving this! I can't grow teas here, but this is fascinating. I agree, your photography is superb, Jeri. I will be paying attention to all the parts of a rose from now on.

Flowers, like I said on the other thread I've grown Grandmother's Hat for many years here in zone 5 and it should be fine for you. It's not a tea, even if it has tea in its ancestry, and it's much hardier than most roses with tea heritage. Do give it a try!

Cynthia

The red stipules don't necessarily point to Tea ancestry. They can also be indicative of China ancestry. So you'll find that feature among Bourbons and Hybrid Perpetuals that can handle zone 5. Even if they have Tea ancestry, look more to reports on where those specific roses are growing rather than assuming tenderness because of China/Tea ancestry. Don't be afraid.

:-)

~Christopher

Yes. That is possible, too.

And Cynthia does make a point about hardiness. It certainly must have had tender forebears . . . but hardier ones, as well.

I have always thought it interesting, though, that we know of it found from Central to Southern California -- but not further North or West. And I can't think of an instance where it's turned up in a cemetery.

Mare Island, near Vallejo, CA
Columbia, CA
San Jose, CA (or so I have been told)
Altadena, CA
Los Angeles,CA

That's always intrigued me.

It might have just been a coincidence that, maybe, just one supplier was carrying it back then, which localized its distribution. So even if it does well further north, perhaps no one was selling it there -- for whatever reason.

:-)

~Christopher

Thank you so much, Cynthia! I had to look it up to see just what class it's in and am happy to see it's a hybrid perpetual. Those do well here.

Yes Christopher. I have long wondered if it was a function of limited availability.

My GH from Annie's Annuals is growing great up here. Can't wait to see it look like Jeri and Clay's.

Oh Jeri, thank you! I can’t believe I didn’t see this until now! I’ve been a bit “out of sorts”, lately and wasn’t checking the forum. The photos are excellent, and should be very helpful to me.

I just might have to go grab some leaflets during one of my trips outside today. (I’m having to keep a close eye on the water levels on the patio and side of the house. I’m VERY close to flooding, and have never seen this much rain come down in such a short period of time. I never thought I’d see the day!)

If things are alright out there, I’ll bring some inside to compare to your pictures. I’ll try to post some, but I know they won’t be nearly as clear as yours. They are truly wonderful diagnostic photos! Thank you so very much, and please accept my apologies for not replying sooner. Lisa

I'll be curious to see what you conclude. Me, I'm thinkin' it's NOT GH.

I hope you have no rain damage! If you "do" Facebook, you can see one of our downpours at:

https://www.facebook.com/jeri.jennings/videos/pcb.2740267805990820/2740266772657590/?type=3&theater

"flowersaremusic" -- MAYBE it's a Hybrid Perpetual.

We don't really know. HP is an educated guess -- but since it has never been identified, even after all these years -- we don't know for sure.

It’s rather late, but I suddenly realized I hadn’t grabbed any leaflets for comparison. I went out in the dark and grabbed a few blindly. I’ll have to get some more, later. It’s already starting to sprinkle out there.

I don’t know what to think, after seeing these. Like I said, I’ll grab more tomorrow, rain or shine. I’m only seeing the red on one, but I just hurriedly plucked the nearest ones, trying to stay dry.

There’s only one with obvious red.

This photo is a little fuzzy. My pictures aren’t nearly as clear as yours.

These have a touch of red.

I don’t have a clue...... Thanks, Lisa

It stumps me. But then, I don't have the other candidates to look at, for comparison.

I seem to remember a rosarian's comment that the pink HP roses of that particular time period were pretty well interchangeable and I'm beginning to think he was right.

I have La Reine, which has lighter green foliage than my GH.