You can but it will be sour, I think. At the end of season I make pickle from green tomatoes. They make a much tastier and crunchier pickle than cukes. Add a few stalks of celery, some tomatillo ...carrots.

Feral would be non-native in this case. The use of feral is generally associated with domestic non-native animals which have reverted to a wild state. The most common that one hears about are cats, dogs, and pigs. Cats and pigs are non-native to North America but often establishing wild colonies. In all cases, their breeding will find them reverting to a wild type. Feral cat colonies usually revert to striped tabbies. Dog colonies revert to a yellow cur similar to the Australian dingo. Pigs revert to a long hairy beast. I'm not certain if there is a good word to describe non-native plant varieties which have escaped from cultivation and become nuisances. Dandelions, kudzu, quack grass, multiflora rose, and a lot of others may have a lot of names of which perhaps only half would be allowed here! Some references would use the word "naturalized". Pollination within the colony of some plant species remove certain domestic traits and they eventually may revert to something close to their original wild ancestors. That's why a lot of the wild garlic leeks of the south are more like their original forms which still grow wild in Europe. They are growing wild but non-native and not exactly like the cultivated domestic variety. It's nearly also so with the topsetting "wild" onions which are found from Texas to Georgia. All had tame origins and at one time may have been brought to this continent as a single species. Now I can see small differences from 3 separate locations. All are now growing "wild" as escaped or abandoned domestic things. And that's exactly the same situation with feral cats and dogs! Martin

Thanks, vonyon. I, too, am wondering just how deep the water will be before the cattails will say "that's too deep." If they stopped right where they are, I would be happy. I would take a photo of the pond but can't get it all in one photo and have it show details well. It may be about 40 feet long by 30 feet wide but I am not a great judge of distances. At the center, it's about 8 feet deep and yes, the pond does drop off quickly. This area had been just a wet spot that we guessed was at water level and some folks wanted permission to cross this land to get to theirs to do some logging. In return for giving our OK, they agreed to dig us out this little pond and it has proven great for attracting wildlife. We have had 6 types of frogs/toads, one turtle, a heron stopped by, moose, deer, ducks, other birds, butterflies, bats, and more. I have planted various plants and shrubs around the perimeter. It's a challenge because one side is quite marshy and there is no good earth around any of the edges because they dug up the hole and piled what they dug out to make the bankings. So it's clay and rocks. So I have to amend any soil I plant in and hope it won't get waterlogged by the clay soil around it. So far things do well: rhododendrons, serviceberry, artic willow, some other willow, blueberries, roses, weigela, raspberries that grow wild there anyway, lilies, lupines (I know they are not native to Maine though), daisies, primroses, irises and more. From now on,though, anything else I put there will be to make berries the birds like. That serviceberry is growing so slowly though. It was small to begin with and has not put on much growth. Haven't seen berries yet. I think I am going to start a new post about a bullfrog that showed up at the pond for the first time this year. I read that bullfrogs will kill other frogs and I am wondering if we should try to remove him. And I THINK I see the female there too, though she looks a lot like a green frog. I have read about how to tell the difference though. It will be too late to prevent them from laying the eggs, but if they are capable of wiping out the other frog species, I wouldn't want them there, although I know this is nature and nature does as it wishes. But bullfrogs ARE native to Maine, so maybe he will only kill some of them and all will be well. I have read on the net about places out west where non-native bullfrogs HAVE wiped out resident frogs in areas. Sorry, I guess I put the whole post here about the bullfrogs. But I will still start another post, because I would like the answers to be delivered to my email. I wish we could put checkmarks beside "threads" that we would like delivered to our emails instead of just the threads that we start outselves. Oh, and you are right that I should also post on the pond group. Thanks.

Before we remodel we struggled w/ this issue. In the end we made a bigger investment so that we could eat at a table & have an island. I am very glad we did. I almost always choose to have our family dinner at the table-- it seems so much more civilized and relaxed and an improtant time for our family of four to be/dine together -- which is only 3-4 times a week. When we sit at the table there have been so many improtant discussions that take place. They are critcal teaching moments for our teenage children. Also I am a stickler for table manners & it is hard to do that the island. Lunch & Breakfast happens at the island. FYI- We increased the kitchen floor plan byremoving diningroom wall & absorbing that space into our kichen plan. The dining room furniture then moved to share space with our oversized living room. Two years later- I am sooo happy we did this.