" Ostrich what are the currencies listed in CAD? Today's exhange rate is $! =1.32 CAD so the list price of the XXL on the website for the plumbed XXL is $5,249 which would make it $6,947 CAD? "

Looking at the miele.ca site, the plumbed XXL is $7999 CAD, so significantly higher than just a currency rate difference.

I'm in the same situation as Ostrich - I want an XXL CSO, but wavering on spending extra to get the m-touch 30" oven vs. the direct select oven. Not sure I need the masterchef feature on the oven as I'm hoping that most of my oven cooking will be in the CSO. Also on my list is the built-in, m-touch coffee system.

Ouch, that's an extra 1000. I guess Ostrich,, you can't drive down to a dealer here and take it back yourself?

Michael, don't make me go look at expensive coffee machines now! I love my coffee but I need to stick to my $180 keurig and not spend $3000 on a coffee machine.

" and not spend $3000 on a coffee machine. "

See... there's the problem right there...

If you can get, say, 10 years out of it, it's really only about 82 cents per day ;)

Waverley66 - Like M I have 3 ovens - 30” wall convection. CSO and Speed. The speed and CSO both have all the normal oven modes and a broiler so both can operate as a normal oven like my 30” wall oven. The speed oven can also operate as a microwave and combine microwave with the oven modes to decrease cooking time. I got the speed instead of a pure microwave so I would have a third oven. I rarely use the microwave only mode. I often use it and my CSO when I need two ovens. I rarely use the speed function as I am retired and dont need to cook dinner in a flash. When I have used it has been for baking potatoes and it works great. The CSO of course allows you to add steam or just do a pure steam. It is my most used oven as it is so versatile. I use my 30” oven when I use larger pans - need to do a multiple level bake or cook something that is messy. I do use the self clean in my 30” oven and have had no issues. I think Miele is pretty reliable with the self clean.

Thank you, Kim G

I believe there were a few questions for me. Let me know, if I forgot to answer any:

When roasting the goose, I was surprise how little splatter I had to deal with. I guess, it does help that I initially cooked with steam at a lower temperature. That allows fat to render without splattering too much. I then increased the temperature for browning. The oven did it's usually rinse cycle thing, and I wiped it down with a towel. That was the extend of cleaning that I ended up doing.

I am admittedly not a neat-freak as far as my ovens are concerned. They are a tool and I don't mind if you can tell. But in this case, the oven took care of cleaning by itself. So, that's a nice bonus.

I have only had this particular configuration of ovens for a short period of time so far. I find I don't use the SpeedOven a lot. It's mostly there, because the kids insisted on a microwave for their beverages. And I figured that if I waste space on a micro-wave, I might as well use the opportunity to get another small oven. I find that for my style of cooking, multiple small ovens are more useful than a smaller number of large ovens. For things like slow-cooked stews or for keeping dishes warm, I don't need a big oven cavitity; and in fact a smaller cavity that preheats faster is actually preferable.

I have the 30" oven in my Bluestar for times when I need to make a lot of food (e.g. lots of cookies). It's a great oven. I have had it for years and like how it works. But it admittedly takes a long time to preheat. So, I don't think I'll use it as much going forward.

So far, I have only used the SpeedOven feature for making gratinated potatoes. That's an ideal use case. Other than that, I think of it as both a microwave, and a regular oven in a convenient combined form factor. But I don't necessarily require the combined cooking mode.

Also, I noticed that the microwave reduces output power when in SpeedOven mode. That limits some of it's usefulness (e.g. my attempt to make gnocchi using the America's Test Kitchen recipe didn't quite work as I intended to do it; probably need to tweak the recipe some more).

So, yes, CSO is amazing. Absolutely go for it. SpeedOven is great if you can afford it, and if you want to save space by combining microwave and a regular oven in the same footprint. Having multiple smaller ovens is very liberating and allows for more multi-tasking. A big oven is rarely needed, but it's good to have that option.

Haha. Michael. Touche. I think with all the upgraded extras I/m just going to have to be buried in my kitchen.

M, I very much appreciate your detailed answer.

Heather N, your kitchen is really beautiful. Is that wallpaper or marble? I love your shelves. I'm planning on doing shelves like yours in front of my windows too. ( And hope that my delinquent cats don't spend their lives knocking everything off them. )Where did you get them? Would you mind showing more photos of your kitchen?

Thanks! The wall in that picture is the same tile as the backsplash, Danby Marble (same as countertops). The shelves in front of the window we’re custom made. I used acrylic shelves instead of glass shelves to make them less noisy when putting glassware on them.

here are some pics - ignore the stools and kitchen table/chairs because we are still waiting on the furniture to be delivered

Also - just catching up on these comments...the XXL CSO definitely does NOT take 20 minutes to preheat to 350!!!! I can’t believe someone told you that! It can’t take more than 5 minutes, probably less. It’s never an issue. And remember, with the steam oven, you will use it for reheating leftovers a lot - so I just put my food on my plate or leave it in the Tupperware container, stick it in the oven, and heat it for 10-15 min at 220 degrees with 20%-50% steam, depending on the type of food I’m cooking. The only time I wait for it to preheat is if I’m cooking something that requires a very precise temp, like baking cookies.

Although I typically only use a single rack in the CSO, there are times when I’m cooking a few things at the same temperature, and having the extra vertical space for multiple trays was nice. We also use it as an overflow warming drawer on Thanksgiving when our warming drawer gets full.

Regarding preheating - I also have a mini Breville toaster oven. I use that for toast and for any individual portions that I need to heat up in the oven, like a few servings of chicken nuggets for my kids. Preheats faster than the Miele ovens, uses less energy, and makes perfect toast on the toast setting.

Oh wow! Wow! wow! that is beyond gorgeous. Everything is so well thought out and beautifully done. That marble is beautiful. Great idea on the acrylic. What are the dimensions of your kitchen and the island?

Interesting that the sales rep at Miele gave me that info on the heat up time. thank you

the island is 15’ long, I’m not sure about the overal dimensions of the kitchen. It took a while for me to design, but I love it!! It has lots of fun features, like a paper towel drawer on the island and a pull out step stool for kids under the sink...it works really well for our family!

Heather, your kitchen is gorgeous!!! Thank you for the photos!

I must say that now I feel a lot better about going with the 30" single oven - thank you! I was at the local appliance store tonight, checking out the Miele ovens again, and I found that the DirectSelect control was the easiest to use, when compared to SensorTronic, and it was not as bad looking as I thought! However, of course, SensorTronic or M Touch looked the best, just like in Heather's kitchen! However, really, I cannot bring myself together to spend that extra money just for the look of the switches (and a few things that I won't use, like the probe...!).

I am wondering if you guys like the Pureline better for a contemporary kitchen?

I’m not sure about all the different lines - I just went with the 30” oven that best matched my convection steam oven! I do find the Miele controls a little fiddly overall - too many steps sometimes. But not a big deal. I’m surprised you don’t think you’d use a temperature probe - I use mine fairly often! It’s really helpful to tell the oven to cook the meat to a certain tempature and then start beeping and turn off the oven when it reaches that temperature.

If you’re building a contemporary kitchen, check out the different oven handle options for the different oven models. I’m considering replacing our chrome ones with the white ones or brass ones for a more cohesive look. Certain handles are only available on certain oven models, they’re not all interchangeable.

Is there a seam in the island? How does it look? And kudos for designing that beautiful kitchen yourself. also , Do you have a separate pantry?

I love the counters and the seam doesn’t bother me at all. The quarry doesn’t sell slabs the size of my island, so I was forced to have a seam. My island slabs are butterfly matched, but I chose to put the parts with most of the movement towards the outer ends and not match them up in the center to take away from the modern/dramatic vibe and make it a more classic/transitional look. The seam is in a place where the marble doesn’t have much movement. It might be more noticeable if it were running through a part of the marble with heavy veining.

Here’s a pic of the seam - it looks noticeable in this pic, but it is definitely not noticeable in the overall kitchen. I barely see it anymore.

I have a separate butler’s pantry next to the kitchen, and a large walk-in room/pantry in the basement. I wish there had been a larger walk-in pantry upstairs next to the kitchen, but we didn’t design/build the house and there was no way to make that happen.

Since you asked about the butler’s pantry, here are some pics. The side closest to the dining room is for glassware/wine fridge. The other side is a homework area for our kids, but it is counter height, so we also use the area for serving food and prep during dinner parties (we still need to cut down the stools to fit under the counters with the arms). We thought we would use the homework area more than a more traditional butler’s pantry, but it still functions both ways. The room with the checkered floor is our mudroom.

Heather N, I am running out of superlatives to describe everything you have done in your home. ( Pause to wipe the drool off my laptop). Everything is timeless, classic, well thought out, functional and a feast for the eyes. I could not see the seam in any of your earlier photos and I'm pleased to see that it can be done so subtly in a very large island. I have a seam in my large island in my kitchen in my other home but it falls naturally ( well, they planned it that way) at a jog in the island. but I was concerned about it in a straightforward rectangular island. I'm not at the finish stage ( still chasing my tail with appliance selection. ) but I learned about Danby marble from you.

Waverley, thank you so much!! It’s been a long road remodeling after a massive flood, but the end is worth it. I love Danby Marble - it looks so classic and has a warmer feel than a lot of other common marbles you see in kitchens. It is harder than other marbles too, so a little more damage-resistant. I would love to see pictures of your kitchen when you finish!

That must have been awful at the time.But look what you came out with.

'll only be starting in the fall, not going to live through renovatoins in the summer. but now is the time to get my ducks in a row. Or at least coaxing them into the water.... I still need to come up with a floor plan once I know what appliances I'll be getting. Now I'm doing a new laundry room/mudroom/cat room. I guess being at the beach it will be more of a sand room than a mudroom,

waverley, happy to test the preheat times on the XXL.

What temp do you want me to test? What cook setting?

For many of the CSO cooking modes you don't preheat (eg. steam and conv/steam). You set the program and put the food in.

Chispa, I'm sorry for the delay in replying. For some reason, I'm not getting all my Houzz notifications coming through. That is interesting about the facto that no preheat is required for the steam settings. That helps a lot. I guess try 350 degrees and separately, a roast chicken preset.

A quick clarification. The steam setting does preheat - the XL takes about 5 min to get to 212 degrees but you do put the food in when you turn the oven on and dont have to wait until it reaches temp.

thanks for that, Kim G.

waverley - Preheating Times today - regular convection oven, no steam, Miele XXL CSO - took just under 7 minutes to get from a cold oven to 425 degrees.

You guys are just the best!!! Living lab for the appliances :-) Thank you!

Thanks Heather N. That's awesome!!!! I can live with that.

I'm still a few months away from ordering, but the latest set of choices has me leaning towards the XXL (and you have been a big help in this) and for my range........... ( and now for something completely different),....... going with the 30 inch GE cafe double oven, induction range instead of the Miele 30 inch convection range.

My reasoning being that if the xxl cso is going to be used more than anything else, I don't need to spend 7k + on another Miele oven. The things I liked about the Miele range were the steam assist, 17 bread programs and the wireless probe which is stored in the oven so that it doesn't get lost, But I can still bake bread in the CSO, anything that i need steam assist for I can make in the larger CSO. I like the looks of the GE cafe and I will find a convenient place to store the probe. The ONLY thing I like about my current kitchen is the small top oven on my Magtag range, I use it probably 5x a day.. And with that small oven on the GE I don't need to get the 3k GE advantium microwave so I'm saving there too.

So that is today's update. Stay tuned for next week's change in choices......

Ostrich, keep us posted on your choices. and decisions Also. I'm very curious as to how you came up with the name, Ostrich?

Hi waverley66, I have made up my mind! Last weekend, I went to "try out" some of the Miele ovens... actually, just playing around with their controls. Oh my goodness! I knew right away that it would drive my mother insane if she had to deal with SensorTronic or M Touch! So I decided that getting the DirectSelect was the right thing to do. So I am going to get the XXL CSO with plumbed in, and then the single oven with DirectSelect. I am quite happy with this decision :-)

Getting back to Heather's earlier question about not having a probe in my oven - we actually don't use the oven as much as some other people. So the probe will not be that great for us. So I am OK to do without it.

As for my name.... waverley66, that's a good question! HAHAHA! It was a nickname that I was given.... who knows why! I look nothing like one.... LOL!

The Miele CSO comes with a probe so you’ll have it for that oven at least!

Question on the Miele SpeedOven/Microwave - When you use it as an oven metal trays/racks are ok but when you use it as a microwave do you have to remove the metal tray and put in microwave safe glass tray or something? I'm planning to install the speed oven over a 30" Miele wall oven. So I get a double oven and a microwave. Since this will be my only microwave I wanted the ease of use without having to change plates out.

Contrary to popular believe, metal is actually fine in a microwave, if (and that's a big "if"!), there are no sharp points, no tight joints, and in general no points where two pieces of metal come together at just a really small surface. This rules out common items such as aluminum foil and forks/knifes. So, in general, sticking to a rule of no metal in your microwave is probably a good idea.

But manufacturers have plenty of time designing the inside of the microwave and the trays that they include with the microwave. They can make sure that all of these parts are compatible as long as you don't introduce any other non-approved metal components.

So, to answer your question, no, you do not need to remove the metal track when you want to use the microwave function.

I called Miele and asked that question as it was presented two different ways in the owners manual. They advise removing the metal rack for full micro but you don’t have too. So there is a clear answer LOL. For the speed function the metal rack is fine as the micro maxes at level 3. You get two glass trays and a metal rack. I keep a glass tray in my oven at level 1 all the time. It bakes just fine placing dishes on the glass. I see no different results than if there was a rack there. It is also a great protector for spills hitting the bottom of your oven. I rarely use my metal rack. I have divided “tray” storage above my oven where I keep all my extra racks/steam pans/glass tray/broiler pan etc. Keeps everything organized and easy to reach when needed.

Oh - some background: We are building a second home so all these appliances will be in the second home - so we will use it for holidays etc. In our current home we have the GE wall Oven (only use it ONE handful of times a year) and Advantium (which we use as a microwave everyday!) - Just went that route to have two ovens for resale! Used the Advantium for speed cook only a couple of times and loved it - it's so fast!! But hated changing the metal and glass trays to use it as an oven or microwave. I'm not a gourmet cook and seldom use the oven.

Heather and M have helped me with coming to my final choices in other threads. Now I'm at the final stretch!!

Glad I came upon this thread! @Heather OH-MY!! OH-MY!!! Gorgeous Kitchen great design! WOW!! Like @waverly6 said - no superlatives enough to describe your awesome kitchen! Thanks for sharing.

Called Miele and they said you can leave the metal tray. The sales guy at the store opened the online manual and said that the metal tray cannot be used when using microwave (solo) - so the manual and the Miele guy are contradicting each other.

@M I don‘t plan to introduce other metal in. Just the metal tray that comes with it.

@Kim - Looks like you removed and put away your metal tray and just use the glass tray that comes with it - when you use It as a microwave or when you use it as an oven. I can’t see why I would wed the rack at all!!!

Since its it’s a second home - when friends stay without us - I don’t want the microwave to be so complicated or they confuse them - oh metal tray is ok when microwaving and they introduce other metals like forks and foil and that blows my expensive Miele oven!!!!!!!

Here is the verbatim from the manual about the metal rack:

“.....The rack is only suitable for cooking in Combination modes and modes that do not use microwave. It is not suitable for cooking in the Microwave (Solo)  mode.....”

I followed the advice given to me by the Miele Experience Center, and we have always left the metal tray in the SpeedOven, no matter which mode it is operating in. No problems so far.

My parents have a SpeedOven that they bought in the late 1980's. I don't think they have ever taken the metal rack out. It's still working fine. I think, it's a Bosch. But I might be confused on the brand.

@paddykk - exactly as far as the manual. There was another place where it said it was ok so that is why I called Miele. I use the metal rack when “baking” on a level other than 1. I really like keeping the glass tray in the bottom to ease cleaning.

@paddykk thank you for your lovely feedback on our kitchen!

Good to know that the metal can be left in there!! I wish they update the manual accordingly and don't confuse people!! I'm just going to put away the metal rack in the "bank locker" and use the glass for the microwave and the oven baking purposes!!!

Now I have to decide whether for not being a gourmet cook and with my limited use in a second home if I should go with the "Direct Select" or the Sensotronics" or the "M-Touch" for the speed oven and the 30" wall oven!! Splurge or not to splurge??? :)

I have the M touch in all three of my ovens (30”/CSO/Speed). I use the Masterchef modes most in my CSO. Occasionally in my large oven and almost never in my speed oven. The direct select in the large oven does not have a temp probe if that is important To you. If this is a second home not sure I would put the extra $$ into the M-touch.

@Heather N

Your kitchen is beautiful! Can you please tell me what brand of sink you have on your island? I'm looking at a workstation and am curious as to whether or not you like it. Thanks!

This string has been so helpful! For those of you with the Miele XXL CSO, do you find that this oven along with a 30" oven is enough oven (thinking about when baking extra batches of cookies and hosting larger gatherings), or would you recommend having some sort of 3rd oven? Thanks for your input!

@Heather N and others, do you have a microwave recommendation?

@Heather N what brand rangetop did you end up doing and what size? Thank you!!

You can never have enough ovens. We have a 30" oven in addition to a 24" CSO and a 24" SpeedOven (incidentally, this is a wonderful combination). And still, there has been at least one meal, when I had to add a fourth improvised oven by using the gas grill on the deck. I also had to use a portable warming chest, and had to prepare a careful schedule for when to use which appliance. But then, I was cooking multiple courses for a gathering of more than 100 guests.

Realistically though, 99% of the time, the combination of those two ovens should be enough. You might just have to do a little bit of planning on the rare occasions that you make huge amounts of food. But if budget is flexible, adding the SpeedOven wouldn't hurt. It's a good oven in its own right, and it can always serve as a great overflow option, when things get really tight.

Is it mandatory? No, not at all? Will you enjoy having bought it? Yes, probably. It's a convenient luxury, if you regularly cook a lot.

@M, I may have asked you this in other threads, but do you use your Speed oven as your microwave? Is it convenient for quickly heating butter, oatmeal, etc? I’m trying to be wise with our appliances and not overlap capabilities.

Also, have you found a warming drawer to be useful, or can you just keep items warm in your CSO?

We primarily bought the speed oven as our microwave. And it does a good job at that. The lack of a turntable is awesome.

But we really like that it gives us another regular oven. So, it frequently gets used that way too. It's actually a pretty good oven, even if it's advertised for its combination features. Funnily enough, we rarely use it in combination mode, but we knew that when we bought it. The speed function is great for potato dishes, but other than that wasn't what we wanted it for. We bought it for the efficient space utilization and the fact that we got another oven "for free".

The CSO is probably the most frequently used appliance. It's super versatile. Strongly recommended for any kitchen.

And yes, both appliances have been used as warming drawers at times. That's actually another reason why I like having more ovens. I don't see the benefit of a dedicated warming drawer if you have these appliances already.

@M, thank you for that helpful information about the warming drawer. That helps me know that we are good eliminating that appliance.

I’m really hoping I can finalize all of our appliances this week. I really appreciate all of your opinions.

I know someone within this thread talked about some of the minor confusion with the M series Miele oven. Do you find that to be true? Just debating which 30” standard to go with. As for the Miele XXL CSO, they just changed that model, so the ones that are tried and true or no longer available. Keeping my fingers crossed on this new version.

Two more quick questions: Which speed oven do you have?

Do you have the SZ 36” column (I believe you may have referenced this to me in a previous thread). If so, what size freezer column did you pair it with?

Thanks M!!