What natives are you growing in 2019 ×2

Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

This thread is about growing native species. All plants are native somewhere. All plants can be discussed. Topic can be anything. All roads lead to native plants. Trades are welcome. I'm growing a lot if new natives and much if this thread will be about them. It will carry into the seedling and young plant stages. I have had long threads in the butterfly and milkweed forums. I will include those topics in this thread. Everyone is welcome. Everyone is equal. I'm not concerned with misspelled words and wrong names. If you love plants, that's all that matters. I enjoy talking to all of you who live in other parts of the country. It's very interesting hearing about your local native flora, and it's a great learning experience.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


This is the new thread. I hope you all find it! Thank you to everyone who made the other one so much fun! I have a shortcut to here and I won't be counting numbers. I will try to find a happy medium with the photos. They are important for what I do here, and it's true that every picture tells a thousand stories. It's impossible to discuss species without photos. I want everyone here though, so I will try to make more time for conversation in between posting photos. All of you are much more important than photos. This thread is for waiting out the cold winter. Rather than hop from forum to forum trying to revive something that should be dormant in winter I'd rather just stay here and keep doing what we've been doing! So I guess this thread is like my Mexican Hats. It stays green all winter, and "plants do what they want."

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

Ok. I found it. A comment on Coreopsis tripteris-if grown in deep loam it will not flop. I have only 2" of topsoil here then 100' of sand underneath so I have to tie it up in late summer. But where I grew it before with good deep loam, it had a root ball like concrete. It does have a fault of minor re-propagation-just don't let them run away on you. They are way too big to want many of them.

Queen of the Prairie-Filipendula rubra



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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Awesome, wasn't expecting anyone that fast. Your tripteris stood straight up, didn't it. I saw your photo. Did you collect seeds from the tripteris you found in the wild?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I've never grown any Coriopsis as tall as tripteris before. How tall does it get, and how tall did your Arnoglossums, (Cacallia) get?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I like sand. I can grow a lot of cool plants in sand. Not orchids though. I think I want to collect a few native orchids after I deal with all the other natives. It will give me time to develope a humousy soil for them. Minnesota has some beautiful native orchids.

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

The c tripteris gets 8' tall( a coreopsis you have to look up to!) Bought the seed ten years ago.

The Cacallia almost as tall.

Hibiscus in Z4a

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

If you bought the seed 10 years ago, then you knew what it was 2 years ago when you put it on name that plant. I just got in trouble for doing that. lol It's ok though, now I have a good excuse for not going there. It's less exciting than watching paint dry right about now. I'm guessing one of the native hibiscus? They have this Kankakee mallow at prairie moon. The flowers are small. I tried scattering seeds but I never got any plants. I think it evolved in the area of the great Kankakee marsh that was as big as the everglades and is now destroyed.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


The queen of the prairie. Someone called it thug of the prairie, but if you have a lot of space, why not? I'm not that crazy about spireas but I am adding new plants in the Rosaceae family. The Aruncus and the Agrimonia. I want to get Gillenia trifoliata also. I haven't grown any native roses yet.

Gillenia trifoliata

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Enjoying the pictures! Yep, I can see them in this thread.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Spirea alba and Spirea tomentosa are a nice presence in the wild but unless you have a lake or pond I dont think growing it makes sense.

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

Jay-I don't recall posting the C tripteris on name-that-plant two years ago. I can't see why I would since I've had a lot of it for a long time.

Another one pretty much ignored on this blog:


Polymonium reptans - native Jacobs Ladder. Right up there next to Godliness.


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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I sowed a bunch of those Jacobs Ladder seeds in trays last year, but the seedlings didnt show up until summer, and I transplanted them to the ground in the fall. I will be looking for survivors in the spring.

I see some people saying they are fussy and short lived, but i think there is another garden plant called jacobs ladder that might be confusing the issue. How have they grown for you? Will they grow on the north side of a house or fence in solid shade?


Edit: the other plant is Polemonium caeruleum native to europe and common in horticulture, AND there are a few of them native to the northeast and west coast.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Pat, I have an elephants memory. I could probably dig it up or maybe debarron remembers. I also remember you versus them on enviromental opinions and I was the only one that backed you up, remember?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip I looked at Polemonium on bonap, and there's about 23 native species with more than one being native to the east coast. I have never been able to grow them and now all these other species makes growing it more confusing. I took one from the wild. It was being murdered by foot traffic. Maybe they resent transplanting? I ordered Gillenia trifoliata and I can trade you that for the Tephrosia if you're interested. The Gillenia likes part shade. I've been wanting to grow it for years. It's red stem coloring is great.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It says in the search that Dandy line has 212 posts, but I can't open them. Maybe it could have been Old Forester or somebody else, but someone posted tripteris. I id'd it and got the approval of the masters. That's something you don't forget!

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Sounds good Jay I'll try those Gillenia seeds out. I looked at my trays outside today, there is some settling or erosion in some cells. The whole line of Thermopsis cells was sunken, at least those are larger seeds and less likely to float away. This is the bad part about using trays vs. milk jugs or bins. These weekly torrential downpours arent helping either.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

duh! Where was I? Just a little bit longer!

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

Skip-Thermopsys has to be nicked and soaked. Germination will be very good after that.

Jay, etal, Polymonium reptans is not fussy and prefers a little bit of shade. Seems to have a long bloom time for me. Very early bloomer and nice leaf structure, sort of evergreen even at 20 below zero! Stays low to the ground and will form formidable clumps if left alone. I have to shave the clumps down later in summer. Will reseed, even in the lawn, but not horrendously so like the non native types.


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I am finally having some really nice weather today. Still muddy, but I was able to do some yard work. Have you ever noticed how great the seeds from the bigleaf mountain mint smell? I still don’t know how and when to collect them, so I took one of the old flower heads and rubbed it between my fingers to see what happens.

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

Jay-you have 23 posts on NTP. One of them intersects me but had nothing to do with Jacobs Ladder.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/name-that-plant/query/jay-6a/nqrw


Unless it was a posting on some other forum.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Dandy, the post was about Coriopsis tripteris but it may have been somebody else. I wouldn't halucinate a name that plant thread, and it was that forum. I don't know anything about non native Jacob's ladders. The native ones either lasts a long time or die very fast. I have the common mountain mint. I don't know if its seeds smell like anything. Some of the soil in the bins settled but there's nothing I can do. The seeds are sown. The bin tops slowly let water in, not all at once. Could you redo the Thermopsis? If you haven't nicked the seeds? I forgot to nick mine. I don't think it's really needed. Dandy, do you grow leadplant? I thought you might be with all that sand. The Gillenia can be winter sowed like most of the other seeds.

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

Yes I grow lead plant. There are substantial stands of it around here. Easy picking for seeds. A few years ago I was not getting any germination on the Thermopsys so I recovered them back out of the mix and did the nick and soak thing. Germination occurred rather rapidly after that. The plant makes for a good background or property delimiter, esp intermixed with other types like Goatsbeard. I collected thousands of seeds this summer and am strewing them around on the snow to get rid of them. We had a lot of melting this past week so don't have to strap on the snowshoes anymore.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I should be able to retrieve the seeds to nick and soak. It was years ago but I remember nicking the seeds of the plants I grew. They were beautiful. You've already had enough snow to be wearing snoeshoes? Dandy, how many people are in your town? Like 500? I wish I lived in a small town out in the boonies. Are you near 1000 lakes? That post wasn't about Jacob's ladder or C. tripteris. It was about Lysimachia punctata.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I dont see how I could fish the seeds out of the trays at this point without dumping the whole thing, I'll leave them and hope for the best. I suspect I have more freeze thaw cycles than you and Dandy, hopefully that action will loosen the seed coat. Worst case there is always next year

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

They should be ok. They don't normally get nicked in the wild. I have seeds of it still left. I can send a few more. Mine should be easier to fix. The Thermopsis is called caroliniana and villosa.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, I looked and no buckbean seeds. Prairie moon gives only 30 seeds so I split them and gave you half. I can send some mycorrhizae for your milkweeds when I send the Gillenia seeds. I just ordered them so I don't know when they'll get here. Could you tip the pots over and drop the soil and then fill in with more soil and replace the top? After a few of my bins settled I realized I should have added more soil mix.

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

I just noticed that my zone and location info is not showing up by my id any longer. What's up with that? I just went into my profile and nothing has changed there.

I live near Brainerd Mn which is in the N central lakes area. When I moved here 8 years ago I was amazed that the wildflowers grew everywhere and not just in isolated places where it was too difficult for the farmers to do do total eradication. My 1 1/2 acres had never seen a plow or grass seed. Lucky me

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Yeah, lucky you! Being able to grow whatever you want, out in the middle of nowhere. Here, it's concrete, wall to wall people, elbows and......

Did your new property have grass, or was it all native prairie?


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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Yeah lucky you Dandy. I can see your info it says (3B (Northern, Mn)) next to your name.



Jay I had the same thing happen last year with the soil settling and it didnt make a big difference. It'll be alright

Sowed tiny silene seeds on top of grit mulch to keep them in place.

Couple visitors this summer:


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I can see your zone and location too Pat. It'll be alright Skip. You just might need to repot them in the spring so the roots have enough soil. The Gillenia does better in your east coast area than it does here.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Pat, The Sambucus seeds that you sent look like they are folded inside a wet paper towel. What's the deal?

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

I forgot about the Sambucus. They have been kept moist since summer and should be winter sowed now. I assumed you would like to have them. Place them in a shady spot. As I have mentioned before, the Sambucus is a bird magnet for its fruit in June.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Ok, I figured it was something like that. I bought a Sambucus years ago from Wayside gardens. It was a cultivar with almost yellow leaves. I don't remember how I lost that one. Do you get any elderberry volunteers that were spread by birds?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Beautiful home butterfly pics Skip. I wish I could grow Clethra like that! What happens to tiny seeds that are sown on regular soil? Is the grit perlite?

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

I'm getting a lot of new Elderberry volunteers. And I then I also have new seedlings from last year seeds too. I have a lot of space to fill up so they are all wanted. I also bought some Elderberry Adams and John cultivars. I'm not sure they are hardy enough here though. They don't seem to become a bush like the native. Instead the top growth dies off and new shoots have come up in the spring. The seeds I sent you are S. racemosa.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

"What happens to tiny seeds that are sown on regular soil? Is the grit perlite?" I had pretty good germination sowing on regular soil but hopefully the grit keeps the seeds and soil from sinking again when it rains! Its gran-i-grit "grower size" and turface. I made some gritty mix once and now I have a 15 gallon tub of grit and turface left over.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I didn't know that grit would help. I didn't use any but it should be ok. There was a lot of rotted wood in the Kelogg. Those Silene virginica seeds are tiny. The Silene regia seeds are bigger. I still have some left over Silene regia seeds.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Asclepias viridiflora

An uncommon milkweed that once thrived in the native prairies!

Short Green Milkweed

1 1/2-2 ft tall.

Monarch Butterfly Host Plant

A prairie milkweed.

https://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/prairie/plantx/sg_milkweedx.htm


.

This one looks closest to what I have going lol. Maybe multiply it by three. I was about to panic when I misplaced a paper listing about 25 species. I need to make another copy (just in case). The nice thing about growing so many species is if you find you really don't care for something, you can edit it out without leaving much of an empty space, and you can assess the value of a bunch of plants all at the same time.


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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Queued up

Hypericum prolificum Shrubby St. John's wort

Penthorum sedoides Virginia stonecrop


Penstemon tubaeflorus White Wand Beardtongue

Solidago flexicaulis Zigzag Goldenrod

I'd rather have pictures of my own plants growing in my yard or in the wild but these will have to suffice until the seeds are grown out.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

The zigzag goldenrod was in one of my books recommended as nectar and host plant. I am a bit wary of everything Goldenrod taking over the world, so I didn’t look further into it. Think I should try?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I will look into it Iris. I'm assuming you want to have one that behaves. There are a few. What size plant would you like. There is a lot of inforlation on the web about all the native goldenrods. How many gardening books do you have? I have a whole library that I collected over the years. Several butterfly books too. I have a book on South Carolina native gardening.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

The zigzag goldenrod is a woodland plant. I dont have many desirable plants in part shade that I wouldnt mind the goldenrod replacing, and I dont think this one spreads as aggressively as canada goldenrod or tall goldenrod in full sun. I got it for its host plant attributes. Do you have any weedy asters and eupatoriums in your yard? Thats what I am expecting this to be like. Spreading, but also easy to remove.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay, I have more books than I will ever confess to... my latest is called tracks and sign of insects and other invertebrates. Seems so far like a great book for me as to not ask all the time on here when I see weird insect eggs. Here is the page on the book with the goldenrod. I have been looking through these kind of books to find my late and early nectar plants.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

The S. flexicaulis is the most shade tolerant of the Solidagos. I like the large leaves. I'd grow it because I have a lot of shade. Maybe next year if there's a need for it. I'm growing 4 species of Solidago now, but actually 5 species because no matter how hard I try, it's impossible to fully get rid of the Canada goldenrod.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, your earlier comment with the new plant pictures just showed up for me. They are all awesome species. I really wanted to have at least one kind of St. Johnswort. Iris what's the name of that book in the picture? I don't buy many books anymore. The most recent are Planting in a Post Wild World, Native Plants of the Midwest, Monarchs and Milkweed, The Life Cycles of Butterflies, Peterson First Guide to Catterpillars. I have to order Doug Tallamy's last book, forgot about it. I have an old book on nonmeclature that I should throw away, no it would be better to save it for history. So many plant names have been changed since it was publushed. The stonecrop is awesome. I've wanted that. I'm growing 3 native stonecrops, the roseroot is medicinal. That Penstemon tubaeflora is incredible. I never heard of it before. I like St. Johnswort flowers a lot with all the stamens.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I suspect it is the Canada goldenrod that is what has me suspicions of all of them. As in trying to get out the connecting 3 feet of roots at a time.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

The seeds fly into the yard and germinate. They are sneaky and grow real fast. I always try to get all of their roots pulled or else they come back. I left a few for the pollinators. There are a lot of them but at least they are native. It would be much worse if they were alien plants. I think it's a good thing there are so many. The Monarchs need all the help they can get on their fall migration. I think the book I want to order is called The Living Landscape by Doug Tallamy and someone else. His first book is called Bringing Nature Home. I will be sowing and growing the S. flexicaulis. I didn't know the whole story at first because the comment didn't show up until later. I hear you about having your own personal photos Skip. There's a lot of pictures I show of plants that I'd never be able to grow, so I need internet photos for them, but it's much better showing your own.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Iris I ordered seeds for the Zigzag goldenrod, I can mail a few if you want to try a couple plants. Your book page says it spreads slowly. There are some plants I would never plant on purpose like canada goldenrod and obedient plant, but I'm willing to try a few spreaders in out-of-the-way parts of my yard.

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

I had the Zigzag golden rod on my former property and I miss it here. A very benign plant, the only yellow in shady areas. I think one would be lucky if it spread a little bit.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I should probably try to identify what I have before adding more. There is one that is a lot smaller than the Canadian and seems to be growing more in a clump.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, do you have a pic of the goldenrod? We can ID it for you. Doug Tallamy wrote the book The Living Landscape. He's a big time butterfly gardener.

https://youtu.be/k0_3BNFv_hY

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I didn’t take any pictures of it in Summer. Will check later if there is something to see. This are has been under a couple of inches of water for a while. I do have that book. Bringing Nature home is my favorite though.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Calotropis procera. The red venation on the leaves is showing. The germination wasn't great. Only 5 out of 25. Other seeds might still pop. I need to keep the humidity cover off now. The plants grow in more arid enviroments. The C. procera is more fragrant than the C. gigantea and both species are otherwise almost identical so it's better that I have the procera. Iris, I'm not surprised you have that book. Other people have said they like his second book better. Now I guess I'll have to get both lol.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Iris, do you have this book? My Prairie Moon catalog came in. I went and got my fern book too. I need that one. Ferns are a little harder to ID.

Jim Wilson was on the tv show the victory garden. He was a great guy. He passed away a few years ago. I had this book of his on wildflowers and I gave it to my niece. Then I bought it again and also his book on Carolina gardening. He said that he had wished he had taken more time to look at and enjoy the plants instead of spending so much time weeding with his face in the ground when he was young and throughout his life. I used to watch another show on pbs called your organic garden with Jeff Cox. He had a book. Now days he's more of a fine wine person, it goes with the territory when you live in Nappa valley.

I need this fern book for IDs.

This is a great book about Texas wildflowers. I bought it on my first trip to Texas. I gave it away too to Carmen in Texas and got another one. I need to finish all these new books before getting more.

Solidago caesia, blue stemmed goldenrod. There are several goldenrod species. Is it possible you ordered one of the smaller more behavable ones they sell in the catalogs?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I don’t have the Carolina gardening book. That’s a good looking seedling you have! I took some pictures of what is left of the goldenrod. It’s definitely not something I planted. Don’t know if the pictures will tell enough to ID or if I have to let it grow again. While I was at it I took pictures of some other weeds, too. Going to see if I find them in my “weeds” book. Otherwise it’s of to the Name that Plant forum. All pictures are still on my camera, will get them on the IPad after dinner.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Give me a shot at them first. I have been on name that plant for years. The book about Carolina gardens isn't about native plants. Had I known I wouldn't have bought it. It just has a lot of ornamentals.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Just got the mail. My Prairie moon catalog was in there. Didn’t look closely yet, just on the way. Here I thought I don’t need any more milkweed, but oval leaf one sure looks nice. Eek, looked again. Guess it isn’t for my Zone.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I just looked at Bonap to see where the Oval leaf milkweed grows. Whats the deal, why dont I have Asclepias amplexicaulis and Asclepias quadrifolia yet!?


Btw, do you find milkweeds work as an ornamental plant or do they get too bug chewed? In my garden the foliage will be mostly hidden among grasses and other plants, should I use A. tuberosa to add some color next year?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

They are still ornamental. They grow new shoots and leaves to make up for what the Monarch caterpillars eat. Yes, amplexicaulis and quadrifolia are native to New Jersey and rare there too. They both can probably be bought as plants in the spring. I know the nurseries that will be selling them and they're going to let me know when they're back in stock. The milkweeds kept making stronger toxins over time to ward off the Monarch caterpillars, but the Monarchs evolved to use those toxins for their own defence, so then the milkweeds started to evolve at quickly growing back lost foliage, which is also a benefit for the Monarchs because their caterpillars prefer the fresh new growth that the milkweeds put on! Wow! Was that heavy or what??? That's the story told by Anurag, the Monarch and.milkweed professor. He sauted some Asclepias syriaca shoots and told his family they were asparagus. They ate them and believed him. Even though my syriacas were constantly being eaten I always thought they looked pretty, there was always a little new growth somewhere.

They still look good here. They both sent up new shoots more than once.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Asclepias meadii
I'm not sure I like the new prairie moon catalog. The website is easier. I don't think they updated the site yet. They still don't have Agalinis purpurea. All these milkweeds are rare.

Asclepias quadrifolia

Asclepias quadrifolia

Asclepias amplexicaulis

Asclepias amplexicaulis

Asclepias lanuginosa

Asclepias lanceolata

Asclepias rubra

I don't know for sure, but it seems like every state has rare and endangered milkweeds. If I do get plants of the amplexicaulis and quadrifolia I will still need the meadii and lanuginosa which are not possible at the moment. The rubra and the lanceolata aren't possible either. There are all these other cool milkweeds that I am growing like perennis and latifolia and variegata.


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I usually browse through my paper catalogs. If there is something I like, I go to the website to order. While there, I am using the search to see if they have something from my wishlist that is not in the paper catalog. Usually end up with more stuff than planned....

Here are the pictures. Don’t know how helpful they are. Pulled one out to see if there are runners.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I don't know what it is. The leaves in the first picture remind me of Gaillardia. That big root ball though makes me wonder. Did you see any flowers on it? The middle picture looks like white snakeroot or some other closely related Asteraceae plant. Is the bottom photo the same plant as the top photo?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

The done/ frozen off flowers are the middle picture. It’s all the same plant. I will look if I find a picture of the flowers. Not sure since most of my pictures are closeups of bugs not showing much of the flowers.....

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Were the flowers white or yellow? A goldenrod? I don't know. You can post it at name that plant if you want. They are desperate for questions. It looks like a goldenrod or Erigeron. Erigerons have little white daisy flowers.

Solidago canadense, Canada goldenrod.

Solidago canadense

Solidago rigida, stiff goldenrod.

Solidago rigida

Solidago caesia, blue stemmed goldenrod.

Solidago caesia

Solidago flexicaulis, zig zag goldenrod, broadleaved goldenrod.

Solidago flexicaulis

Erigeron canadensis, Canadian horseweed.

Erogeron canadensis.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Yes, it had yellow flowers that did look like goldenrod. The only two in my weed book (I really do have books for everything, don’t I?) are Canadian and Tall goldenrod. Not sure the leaves look like the tall one. Also didn’t see any creeping rhizomes when I pulled it up.

I just posted another of my mysteries on the Name that Plant forum. I suppose this one can wait until it starts growing again and will be easier to identify. Plenty of winter weeds starting to flower now that I might need help with.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

The one on name that plant I'm not sure about either. Maybe some kind of dock, Rumex. I should go over there and say that. If I'm wrong I'm sure someone will jump in.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

This one is driving me nuts. I have been waiting so patiently for a flower to appear to make it easier. Meanwhile it is probably working silently on a 3 foot taproot I will never be able to rip out. Still looking through my book for another one I feel I really should know. So it would be a bit embarrassing to post that one and have a Duh, of course moment.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I planted some horse radish that sort of had leaves like that. What a mistake. I still haven't gotten it all out. A rabbit made a nest and had bunnies under the big lower leaves. When it blooms it bolts and gets real tall.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Calycanthus floridus, Carolina sweetshrub.

Calycanthus floridus

Calycanthus fertilis, smaller in size than C. floridus. With shinier leaves.

Calycanthus fertilis

Calycanthus 'Venus'. A white flowered hybrid bred by crossing 3 species. Calycanthus floridus, Calycanthus occidentalis, and Calycanthus chinensis.

Calycanthus 'Venus' A nice hybridizing job. I'm thinking it probably can only be vegetatively cloned and won't grow true from seed.

Calycanthus 'Aphrodite'. A repeat blooming cultivar of Calycanthus floridus.

Calycanthus 'Aphrodite'.

Calycanthus floridus 'Michael Lindsey'.

Calycanthus chinensis. The parent of the white flowered 'Venus'.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Got the Carolina one. Really pretty but so far having to be in a cage because of the deer. My husband walked the dogs this morning before taking off for a business trip and saw a coyote at the back of our property. Our dogs went nuts, the coyote just wandered off slowly.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Some Texas Wildflowers
For all the wild Texans ///

Cosmos parviflorus, southwest Cosmos

Cosmos parviflorus. Southwest Cosmos grows 2-3 feet tall, and is branched several times in the upper half, with a single flower head, about 11/4 inches across, at the end of each slender, bare stem. It has 8 pale orchid ray flowers, with a yellow center. It is an attractive flower, suitable for cultivation, and seeds are commercially available. Leaves are threadlike, divided 2 or 3 times. It is not abundant, as it is grazed by livestock. Photographed in Madera Canyon, in the Davis Mountains.

Thymophylla acerosa, prickleleaf dogweed. Formerly Dyssodia acerosa.

Thymophylla acerosa, The dogweeds are strong scented plants. Just walking through them stirs up a lingering unpleasant odor. Prickleleaf dogweed is a small plant, 4-8 inches tall, growing from a woody stem with several branches near the base. It has many slender, sharp pointed leaves less than 1 inch long. The bright, yellow flowerheads, less than 1 inch across, are clustered at the ends of the short stems. Photographed in the Davis Mountains.

Engelmannia pinnatifida, cut leaved daisy, Engelmann's daisy.

Engelmannia pinnatifida, This common plant of the plains and prairies resembles the sunflower but has the daisy charecteristic of closing the flowerheads at night and opening them in bright sunlight. The rough, hairy plants grow 1 -3 feet tall and are topped by broad clusters of showy yellow flowerheads about 11/2 " across. The 8-10 ray flowers are 1/2 " long and are indented near the tip. The erect to spreading stems form a rounded crown. Leaves are alternate and deeply cut. 3-6 inches long. The upper leaves often have coarse teeth. Photographed at Mckinney Falls State Park near Austin.

Stewartia malecodendron, silky camellia. Silky camellia is a large, open branched shrub growing up to 10 feet tall. Leaves are alternate, deciduous, 2 to 4 inches long and half as wide, silky below and distinctly veined. Flowers are white to cream colored, 2-3 inches across, and saucer shaped. The petals are crimped at the margins and wider at the tip. The numerous black stamens are conspucuous. This plant is rare in Texas. This one was photographed in Newton County East Texas. People who are shown the site by the forest service must be blindfolded when taken there lest they return again to collect 'specimens!'

Stewartia malecodendron

I love Texas. While I was there I walked the same steps as dinasaurs!

Eastern Texas

Seed trading is welcome here 24/7 !

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Still in Texas, heading to big bend.

desert highway

Ocotillo

javalina

Canoe to Boquillas Mexico on the Rio Grande

Boquillas Mexico

I think I had a couple cold cervesas here. And bought a whip and a sword. Zorro wanabee? I always brought home beautiful rocks from the west with colorful minerals like lapis lazuli. Those decorate my gardens, not ceramic squirrels and poo pets. These pics were all taken from the internet. I have personal photos of all these events but they aren't digitalized, and doing that is not a priority at present! You still get the feel! If you are able to take a road trip of the Southwest then by all means do it! Or just explore the entire huge state of Texas with it's diverse conditions and climate!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, you were telling me about a special Calycanthus cultivar the other day that had shinier leaves. Was it the C. fertilis or some other cultivar? I'd go back and look, but I think it was on part one. Ok, I'll dig. Edit, I went back but couldn't find it.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Calycanthus floridus 'Michael Lindsey'.

It appears Calycanthus fertilis is a variety of Calycanthus floridus.


C. f. var. glaucus (syn. C. fertilis)—eastern sweetshrub; twigs glabrous (smooth).

-as per Wiki

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I guess you're right. I thought I saw fertilis on bonap,but I didn't. I read it somewhere but it's wrong. I wonder how many other cultivars there are? The 'Michael Lindsey' could be fertilis, or glaucus.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

They say the 'Michael Lindsey' is wet spot tolerant. I guess I will have to fix the labels lol.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


A true friend has found, and is sending me Gaillardia pulchra seeds! Thank you Lord for another beautiful day! "Freely you have recieved; freely give."

Don't be concerned about clothes!

Don't ever worry about what you will have to eat!

There's no need to worry about the future. Give your soul back to its Creator. You can have fountains of Living Water bursting inside you!

Not even Solomon in all his glory was ever arrayed as finely as one of these!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Orphans are welcome, but only if you behave and play nice! lol Beautiful gardens aren't always made by beautiful people! Quite the opposite!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Yay, Jay for more seeds. I am happy for you. Even though you are probably more than busy enough with the ones you have.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Not at the moment. They're all sitting on the patio. I think it's more peaceful over here. It's so cold here. About 20. Did you get an answer about your plant yet?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Not about the slow growing one, but the orderly, well behaved looking weed I posted earlier. Not good news :(

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Is it a spreading goldenrod?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Oh, the one I posted here? I did not post it on the Name that plant. Will wait with that one.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I went and looked. It's at the top. That was a fast one!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Yes, thankfully. Before there are seedlings everywhere. How come these weeds are reseeding so easily and even if you go at the seedlings with a hoe and they lay around on top of the soil they will not die? Look at some of the seedlings planted on purpose and even native a bit too long and the just wither away.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Like someone once said bare soil = weeds. Wherever there are bare spots weeds will take over and some are pretty good at growing close to other plants and they almost don't need a bare spot to take over. Weeds will always be here.

https://youtu.be/vnzsCYCZTaA

https://youtu.be/f3VGBEDeKcE

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Can’t help the bare soil in January. I do welcome the weeds flowering this time of year in the lawn, not much else to eat for the insects coming out on the warmer days. But they do of course make it to the flower beds. Of course our lawn is not of the kind being tended to other than mowing. No fertilizer or weed control of any kind. My father in law is spending a fortune having his green golf course looking grass and is proud of it. He also shapes shrubs in the meatball shape and is proud of it. Then he is wondering why his plum tree never has fruit. Duh! Some people you just can not change.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Weeds will always be here. Maybe you need to fill in the bare spots with more plants lol.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Come Summer this place hopefully will be full again. I am having high hopes my Indian Pinks are finally in the “third year they leap” stage.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I treat my lawn the same way- mow only. Im kind of considering using a chemical preemergent this year to try to control the japanese stilt grass, crab grass, dandelions, and smart weed. I have a lot of hairy bittercress popping up now but it disappears in the summer. I think what my yard really needs is to be killed off and reseeded but I dont have the budget for that this year.

The seed catalogs are dangerous! Did you know there is a native hop vine (like beer hops) that is host to a ton of Lepidoptera?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I didn't know there was a native hops. I thought they all came from Europe. I've had a vine thats been restricted for years. It's not spreading, but if it were I'd have trouble. I know they host Commas and Question Marks, but I never heard of one hosting several species. Send the link if you can. I didn't know you had stiltgrass too. I do get a few smartweeds, but they're easy to pull. I've thought about cultivating the showier ones. There's a white flowered aquatic smartweed I want to grow but I don't have any wet places. What seed catalog was that hops vine in? I've been getting a bunch of catalogs for years. I've been pitching most of them but I save a few like Prairie Moon, Native American Seed, Richter's Herbs, Annies,and Wildseed Farms.

https://youtu.be/4tonmD-NVoQ

https://youtu.be/UEj0osQ4Y1g

https://youtu.be/BIFd5L605jM


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Please don’t tell me about even more kinds of plants to consider! I would love to get more going, but it is really just me taking care of all of this (except the mowing and I have been banned from cutting the really big branches, long story involving stitches), so the I do have to consider the upkeep. Dandelions are very popular in my lawn right now. I am still looking for something to plant that would eliminate the need for all these weeds. Not that much out in these temperatures, but they do have to eat, right?


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

There aint no bugs flying around up here. I think I have that species of hops. Mine looks exactly like it. It's in the back south end of my older garden. I haven't ever seen any caterpillars on it, but there might have been some. Well, I already have it. They can be very agressive and they do grow to 30 feet. Mine is penned in and can't spread. The trumpet vine growing next to it is another story. They have preemergents for stiltgrass and smartweed?

Humulus lupulus, native to North America, Europe, and Asia.

https://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/savanna/plants/am_hops.htm

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Yes according to Rutgers: https://njaes.rutgers.edu/fs1237/

Edit: link not working search "Rutgers Cooperative Extension Fact Sheet FS1237"

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

https://youtu.be/7weUMP8LgXw

I have seeds for Carex pensylvanica.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Your link for the hops doesn't work.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, are those really dandylions, they look like hawkweeds?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

They sure look like it to me. And this is one thing I did have back in Germany.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Are you from Germany?

Ich habe einen Stein aus Deutschland!

Du bist ein wunderbarer Freund!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I am. Came here in November of 1993 with a 7 month old baby, a rabbit and a dog. Whole different world. Had a really tiny garden in Germany and didn’t concentrate on that since we had a 100 year old house to fix up ( the in house pig stall became the living room) All of a sudden there were 5 acres to play with and no idea what to do.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Wow, Jay. Look at your German! And thank you so much. So are you!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Thanks for sharing Iris. My dad was stationed in Germany during the Korean war. My best friend was also stationed there. We had a neighbor Gertrude from Germany. I am Slovak which is close to Germany. I have never been to Europe. Only Canada and Mexico.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


 A Symbol of Hope

A butterfly lights beside

us like a sunbeam

And for a brief moment

its glory and beauty

belong to our world

But then it flies again

and though we wish

it could have stayed

We feel lucky to have seen it.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

The hops were in the Toadshade catalog, Humulus lupulus var. lupuloides, sold as live plants. The description says it dies to the ground every year then regrows in the spring, and "Not to be confused with the invasive annual Japanese Hops (Humulus japonicas)."
The catalog itself is really oldschool and not great to look at, but they have some unusual species.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It dies down to the ground but it grows very fast during the growing season. This same species probably does grow in Japan. It's not at all attractive

Very rough looking, coarse leaves.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It looks much better in the photos but after a while, not nice to look at a lot of the time.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I bought the hops years ago. My plant knowledge has grown a lot since then. Probably back then I didn't even understand what a variation was.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Gee, I wish I could just suddenly find myself with 5 acres! I think I'd have lot's of ideas what to do with it haha! LOL Iris. Are you wore out from name that plant?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I am! With the unusual amount of rain, there are all kinds of weeds popping up I don’t know.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Calotropis acia,

Dark Blue Tiger Butterfly, Tirumala limniace, India, Southeast Asia, host plant Calotropis.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Very pretty! Can’t wait for Spring. I did have this moth hanging out at my door two nights ago. Reminded me of one of these rugs with fringe.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, a lot of weeds try to get a hold in the garden this time of year. Over here the Erigerons and some weedy perennials germinate and start growing. Then they explode in the spring. Do you have one of those hoes that shave the soil? That would probably make it easier. I can't even imagine what it would be like to keep all that area weeded!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I did have one at some point. There are perennials in most areas, so I can’t just whack around. My most used tool in the garden is probably this one. Narrow enough to get in between the flowers.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I always want to get out in mine about now to pull all the weedy Erigerons, and goldenrods, asters, and viper's bugloss. That last one isn't native and I want to get rid of it, but it has pretty blue flowers that the bees love. I never usually get outside to do it. It's too cold here now anyway.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, let me put it this way. Humulus lupulus is not worthy of your yard. You've already invested in so many beautiful plants, why muck it up? They have male and female plants and are in the family Cannabaceae. I have a girl!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay, did you get your mail?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Yes. The book is full of beautiful pictures. Thank you so much Iris!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Imperial Moth

Bald Cypress, one of many host plants.

Imperial Moth cat

Imperial Moth pupa. They change into a pupa underground just like Sphinx Moths.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

How to Hack Weeds With a Machete! (and scare your neighbors)
https://youtu.be/hpjB666Vb9E

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I really hope I will be seeing more of the big silkmoth caterpillars next year. With all the rain my little willow is really taking off.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Oops. This year. Still stuck in December....

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Your right, it is next year. My neighbors don't mess with me ever since they've seen me going postal with the machete lol.

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

Jay- I don't remember anything about erotic cactus pictures posted on my blog! Bald cypress only survives much farther south of here, Ill and Ind I guess is as far north. They must be a lot like Tamarack up here, being a deciduous conifer. The Tamarack's are beautiful in fall when changing over to yellow, and there are vast areas of them in the swamps, which we have a lot of.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Question: does any of you grow culver’s root? I was thinking about it last year but once again scared away by the spreading quickly with the rhizomes. At least I think I didn’t plant it. Who knows what is going to pop up in Spring. I totally forgot about my New England Asters until I stumbled onto them today.

Edited to say it looks the culver’s Root comes with its own moth. Papaipema sciata. Well, at least for you up north.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I planted Culvers Root last year, it was a big plant in a 2 gallon container. From seed it will take 2-3 years to flower. I think the rhizomes are short, you get more of an expanding clump over the years, instead of whole new plants popping up 5 feet away.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Thank you! Going to start looking for it. I think I will try to get a plant instead of seeds, too.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Dandy, I'm not digging it up. It can stay burried lol. I might just look at it. What was I thinking?

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)
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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Well wow. Thank you Skip. Goes on the definitely going to try to find it list.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Veronicastrum 'Lavender Towers' An introduction by Ernest Pagels of Germany. He deveoped a purple cultivar of one of our natives over there. I would think it would be more likely to find that purple color in some isolated subspecies. This guy is good!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

The wheels in my head are turning. There is an area in the back that is kind of low laying and moist more than others. With the years of leaves collecting there the soil is actually really nice. Maybe I should make this an area for possible problem children? It gets at least 6 hours of sun there. I would not have to pull out my hair if this plant and something like the zig zag goldenrod are going wild. Could just go around with the mower in a wider and wider circle...


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Sounds like a good plan Iris.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Oh boy. My husband will think I have lost it completely.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, I've had some white culvers root for about 12 years and it's never spread. I wish it would spread more. It might be in too dry an area. I'm going to divide in the spring and spread it to other locations. I never bought the plant. It just showed up in my garden.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Did you ever see the moth? It’s not very flashy looking to notice and also a species of special concern, so probably not.

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

I've been growing Veronicastrum for a while now and it is no great thing IMO. I think it looks better in the wild surrounded by grass where it doesn't have to compete with the real good lookers.

Iris, the real stars of the prairie all grow in the swampy areas. Your natural wet spot can be an oasis for the real beauties that are available.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I've seen Imperial Moths. Is that the moth you're referring to? Or a moth that uses Culver's root as a host plant? I'm slightly confused.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I meant the one on the Culver’s root. Papaipema sciata

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Maybe that's why my Culver's root plant has been declining the past few years. I've been hosting underground cats.

I'm thinking it's little. I don't know if I'd even remember it if I saw it. There's a lot of little brown moths like that. Papaipema sciata


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

There you go! Wouldn’t that be great? I have a soft spot for the plain brown or gray underdogs nobody ever mentions.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Yeah, I do too. When I check out native plants to grow, I pick lots of plants that are hosts for the Little Brown Moths too.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

With a wingspan of about 40 mm it’s not that little, but until I saw the Polyphemus caterpillar on my oak last year I had not seen any adults of that either. And they should not be hard to miss. I should take more night walks around the yard. But then there is my husband seeing the coyote a couple of days ago. And every time I step out the front door after dark I get hissed at by the deer.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


female Polyphemus Moth

male Polyphemus Moth

I have only seen about 3 of these moths my whole life, they are rare here.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Aren’t they beautiful. I felt privileged to see this one

get to this


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Niche had the normal white Culver’s root and the “Fascination”. So I ordered both. For someone who didn’t really want any new plants and just divide what I have, I am off to a bad start. It is January and so far I have ordered 22 plants.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I have that Lavender Towers Culvers Roots. This is one of the few species where the insects prefer the off-color cultivars over the the straight species. (Some garden experiement, maybe Mt Cuba or Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center did) I have seeds for the straight species too, but I didnt deadhead and maybe I will get some volunteers.

I didnt plan to wintersow more than a few species this year but ended up with maybe over 70 now, dont feel bad Iris!

Im telling myself not to buy more than a few specific plants I already have in mind this year but I will probably botch that too.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Veronicastrum 'Facination'.
Skip, I thought you were growing the plain white one! The Gillenia seeds came in. Did you get all your seeds in ? This Facination is very nice!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I am glad I am not alone. Just have to put the catalogs to the side, don’t mark the calendar for the Native Plant sale and ignore all of your nice pictures here. Piece of cake....

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

No I didnt get all my seeds in, Im a little annoyed by that. The seeds from Kentucky came yesterday but the ones from New Jersey havent come

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, you have to go to the native plant sale!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay, I really should not go. They had the quart pots of Redring milkweed for 7 dollars last year.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Did you buy one? If my humistrata ever has seeds, and that's highly questionable, I will send you some. It's native to South Carolina, but not here. The latifolia has cool leaves too.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I would be going even crazier, planting whole ecosystems if i had 5 acres

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Yeah, me too Skip. Exactly. A kid in a candy store except I plant all the eye candy!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I have the Redring, but it seemed to be struggling. I also can not keep Poke milkweed alive for more than 2 years. Skip, I would love to have more areas, but it is not that easy to keep them. The 13 acres behind me are not taken care of, so I am battling all kinds of invasive things coming over from that. I thought I had the wisteria and honeysuckle under control, but nope. Then there is that weed I thought has pretty flowers and had identified last Summer in Name that plant. I will look up the name, but it has the worst roots. Throw in privet and Calgary Pear. And Bermuda grass. So I have to wait until my natives are strong enough to choke that stuff out themselves before I start more areas. The areas of bigleaf mountain mint and swamp sunflower are so dense I hardly found any weeds when I cut back the dead stalks today. Sorry this is coming in a weird, big font. The newest pain in my behind.

sericea lespedeza

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Is the Lespedeza cuneata the weed you mentioned? The native ones are very nice. The L. violacea is beautiful. I wonder if any butterflies use the L. cuneata as a host plant?

Lespedeza violacea

Lespedeza violacea

Lespedeza cuneata

Lespedeza cuneata

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

This is a screenshot of the answers I got asking. Trying to take the biggest one out was impossible.


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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

True I feel that on the invasives, the 5-13 acres immediately around my house are largely invasives in the "wild" parts and alien landscapes in the maintained parts. I think almost all the vegetation should be "harvested" then replanted carefully. Id like to volunteer with the county next year removing invasives and see what their strategy is.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Seems to be a big battle. My daughter is involved in the wildlife society at her College. They pretty much pair up in two’s. One is cutting at the base and the other one immediately paints with something like roundup. Driving around the wisteria flowers are really pretty, but I really wish people would know what they get. Got the Stark brothers catalog for example in the mail today. It has Wisteria tree. No scientific name. Is that the dreaded wisteria grafted?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


I've had trumpet vines for years, and they are almost impossible to get rid of. That was the only reason I never did get a Wisteria. I think the Wisterias do even more structural damage like tear the roofs off houses and such. My neighbor bought a Wisteria and I had to talk him into planting it well away from his house. They are really pretty. There's a real pretty native tree called yellow wood that has long Wisteria like flowers that hang down. I'm not sure if the Wisteria tree is grafted. It might just be one species that was trained into that shape. I've seen people do that with Campsis radicans too.

Cladrastis kentukea, Yellowwood.

Cladrastis kentukea

Cladrastis kentukea

Cladrastis kentukea

One small drawback. White tailed deer find it delicious. It hosts a leaf mining beetle, but no leps that I'm aware of. Iris, can you grow Spanish moss there?

Spanish moss, Tillandsia usneoides. epiphyte It's naturalized in Queensland Australia. Sombody there was growing it on a clothes line. I hope it's not invasive! What are they thinking over there???

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Eastern Cottonwood, Populus deltoides. I have a big old one and even though it causes many problems, it's a super host tree for butterflies and moths.

young specimen

leaves

About the same size trunk as mine.

All these lep species use Eastern Cottonwood as a host plant. There are many more moth species too numerous to mention.

Viceroy, Limenitis archippus.

Red Spotted Purple, Limenitis arthemis.

Tiger Swallowtail, Papilio glaucus.

Dreamy Duskywing, Erynnis icelus.

Cecropia moth, Hyalophora cecropia.

Poplar Sphinx Moth, Pachysphinx occidentalis.

The Red Spotted Purple and the Viceroy are so closely related that their caterpillars look identical.

http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/trees/plants/cottonwood.htm

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, the redwing and poke milkweeds like a little bit of shade. Just part shade. Especially that far south.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)



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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Skip, I'm not sure if the Lavender Towers will grow true from seed. No one offers any seeds for the purple cultivars. I'm asking some people who probably know more about it. All I saw was plants being sold. If you do find any seeds on that plant can I send me some on the slim chance some might be lavender. I only have one white flowered plant, but I could use more of those too. Thanks!

Veronicastrum virginicum 'Lavender Towers'

Veronicastrum virginicum 'Cupid'

Veronicastrum virginicum 'Fascination'

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I cut off a dry raceme, I have to see if I can clean any seeds out of it. It looks like some of the individual flowers are already open and empty.

Edit: Comparing what I harvested to the seeds from Prairie Moon, I dont think I got any seeds, just dry flowers, the seeds are tiny! The seeds from PM are in a wax paper pouch inside the seed packet.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Somebody just offered me seeds for Apollo. Wow, how many purple cultivars are there?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Hey Skip, I decided to just wait until spring and if I still want it bad, (which I probably won't) I'll order a purple cultivar. There's even more cultivars I just heard about. They gave me a link for purple seeds on another forum. These seeds here are the last for me, I'm putting the brakes on and resisting, no matter how tempting, so don't lead me there, you have enough!!!!!! Too! And I'll just order plants now haha!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, you know that picture you showed of the Polyphemus cat. Was it hanging like that because it was getting ready to spin its cocoon, or do they just hang like that from time to time? I like that 'Fascination' a lot. There's another one called 'Cupid' that's nice too.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Sounds good Jay, I wouldnt want to wait a year or two from seed to bloom just to find out it wasnt purple. Im done too

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, I've had 1 veronicastrum plant for years, but it doesn't seem to form a clump, and it seems like it would be hard to divide. Maybe mine isn't in the ideal situation.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay, the caterpillar in the picture was just about an inch and a half, so she had a long way to go. Not sure why they are doing that. Maybe to look more like a leaf? I am not going to google the “Cupid”. You are tempting my willpower to be done ordering plants.....

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I have a question about common boneset. Just how wet does the soil have to be for it to thrive? I planted one last Spring, but it didn’t seem happy. It’s in one of the new flower beds, so it did get watered every other day. Too much sun? The full sun/ part sun/ part shade instructions on the tags are often not very helpful. It does get about 5 hours of sun where it currently is. Should I move it? Does it just have to establish?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, boniset grows wild all around here. I've never grown it or the tall boniset in my garden because they're everywhere. I'll look into it though. There's a lot of other tall white flowered native species that are totally missing from the landcape here, like Indian plantain, Heracleum maximum, and wild quinine, but bonisets and Canada goldenrods are everywhere.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, I looked at bonap and boneset should grow well for both of us. It likes moist soil with a lot of organic material and it will take some flooding. I'll try not to tempt you anymore Iris, I need to stop tempting myself lol.

http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/prairie/plantx/cm_boneset.htm

This is a good article about pollinators and Joe Pye plants and their relatives.

https://www.ecobeneficial.com/great_resources/chicago-botanic-garden-report-joe-pye-weeds-relatives/

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

What size pot was it in when you planted the boneset? I have late boneset growing wild in the shade in my backyard, but I see it gets much larger and showier in full sun on the surrounding roadsides and fields. Yours might just need a year to get established.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I think it would be a good idea to fill out my trade list, it's been a lost opportunity and it saves an aweful lot of typing, and then in the spring after inventory I will vastly enhance it. Wo! Awesome!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

It was is a gallon trade pot. Ok, I will see how it does this year. Funny you mentioned the Quinine, Jay. Look what I looked at yesterday. Thankfully Niche didn’t have it when I placed my order for the Culver’s root....I really am a hopeless case.


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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

Iris-I have germinated it and it now resides in one of my gardens but it isn't very showy, at least to me anyway.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Dandy, does yours get chewed on? Maybe one of my problems was that something ate it shortly after planting. Caged, it did grow a bit, but not very happy looking.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It's kind of big for my area, but if I had 5 acres I could grow a huge clump of them. I don't know much about the pollinators on it or if it's a host plant. Illinois wildlowers usually has good information about that...... The flowers don't attract butterflies and it's not a host plant for any butterflies or moths so why get it?

http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/prairie/plantx/wild_quininex.htm

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Dandy, yes that showiness issue too that I haven't mentioned lol, but again, if I had tons of land like 'some people'...........

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay, I am gardening for pollinators of all kinds. Not just butterflies. Also, was this directed to the boneset or quinine? The boneset is the hostplant for 3 types of moths in my book. The quinine isn’t listed as any kind of hostplant, but nectar plant for little butterflies (hair streak, wood nymph) and the cute mint moth. And I really adore mining bees.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It was the quinine. I'd grow it if I had more space, but it's kind of big. I try to supply plants for all the wildlife too. I grow a lot of weird, ugly plants that nobody else would, just because they're host plants.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I am not going to actively searching for it (remember no more plants...), but if I find it by coincidence.... I am going to have to find a couple of people to take plants off my hands though for all the things I really have to divide and don’t know where to put. I would hate to throw them to the brush pile. I had dozens of nice frost weed seedlings last year, too. This picture/ post was for example from 2 years ago. By now we are 6 trunk loads further and she has a nice butterfly garden (did have to get emergency milkweed from me last Summer)


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

That a nice looking haul there Iris. Looks like my trunk after the native plant sale, and the back seet floor, and I get discounts on all plants. I think I have just about every one of them by now.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Deer shouldn't like boneset. They won't eat snakeroot. It's like they know it's toxic. Skip, do you have any deer near your house? I hope they don't bother my new plants, now that the neighbor and his dogs aren't around anymore.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I don’t know what ate it. Deer or rabbit though. The deer ate the Mexican sunflowers this year, too. Didn’t eat them last year. You should see how many tracks there are now that it is so muddy. I need to put a camera out.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I have a ton of deer around, they eat everything except the invasives and the boneset.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Ahoj! The ancestors come from a place called Sedmihradsko.


Translated from Slovak to English Sedmihradsko means Transylvania.

Not a vampire, don't drink blood, don't like the taste, but those Spanish blood sausages they put on tapas are delicious! I do have this nocturnal thing going on though.

There are certain benefits like having nice chats with members in the U.K. who are 6 hours ahead, and also causing all sorts of shenanegans on here while everyone else is asleep and helpless lol. Yes, it's off topic, but it's my thread and I can do whatever I please lol!

vsetci moji priatelia ktori sem prichadzaju Vel'mi vas vsetkych milujem!

Transylvania

Transylvania (bloodmeal nurtured)

Transylvania, the road to Vlad's birthplace.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

A normal day in Iris's yard!

"22 new plants already on this coming spring's buffet menu haha!"

Maybe some added caterpillar protein.

They got mine too. :(

"yum!"

"never saw this before!"

Will it ever get big?

"mmmmm!"

"I was just admiring them, really!"

Safe for now!

"She should be heading inside any time now! lol"

Skip, were you hoping that the deer eat your Boneset? lol. If the the deer were eating the invasives, they wouldn't be invasives, probably more like endangered. I'm all for reintroducing predators, eveywhere!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I don't think inocculating legume seeds is absolutely necessary. All my vollunteers grow good.

Tephrosia virginiana. What a beautiful plant!

https://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/2429

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

No I wasn't hoping the deer would eat the boneset. Any non-invasive plant that the deer dont eat is okay in my book. I even mowed and weeded around the boneset in hopes it would spread.

Maybe today the rest of the seeds I ordered will come and I can send them with the Tephrosia? I could have driven myself to the place in 2 hours roundtrip.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Wow, I didn't know the place was that close. Everything's covered in snow. It might be headed your way. I'm going to start everything inside under my big lights from now on. Using three lights is a headache and really not necessary. It will mean more back and forth to keep things watered and tended to. I've done this many times, but small pots dry out faster.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

We got a little dusting of snow but the bulk of the snow fell in the delware/maryland area. That has been the trend all of the last year, most storms are tracking to the south through the mid Atlantic.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Absolutely perfect cold stratification. Those Asclepias variegatas, Silene regias and Allium stellatas are going to be beautiful!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Looking good! I got more rain. So tired of it. Just about lost one of my rain boots getting stuck in the mud.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Does the ground ever freeze down there? Have you ever tried sending people plants?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

It usually does freeze a bit, but not very deep. I have sent swampsunflower to someone here in South Carolina. It seems the rules for sending plants over the State lines are complicated. Don’t want to import one of our pests somewhere. I wanted to get a “Man of the Earth” sweet potato vine to cover an old play structure from my girls. It is native in South Carolina, but I wasn’t able to order one from Almost Eden because of the sweet potato weevil quarantine.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay, the deer in your pictures are awfully cute. What they are doing not so much. Lots of tracks in the mud.


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Just had a chat with my neighbor through the hedge. Sounds like armadillos are moving into our area. As in one was seen a mile from here. One more critter to dig around my flowers.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Oh well, what can you do lol! That's a new one for me. I haven't heard any discussion about them on here. You can eat them, with a mole sauce. They're too cute though.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Not going to eat them! Seems they like to eat ants. That would be helpful. If they don’t dig up everything in the process. May I confess I ordered just a few more plants? Just globe thistle and sweet coneflower. Mostly...Still had a gift certificate I had to use.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I tried growing the globe thistle a couple times, but it never took off. It must not be because of my area, because there's a yard full of them nearby. Do you mean the sweet coneflower Rudbeckia submentosa? That's the same species as the Henry Eilers', just a special cultivar. I might have to order that, I really like it. Thanks for telling me about it.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

https://abc7chicago.com/amp/politics/jb-pritzker-sworn-in-as-governor-of-illinois/5073667/

Illinois has a new Democractic governor and things here are finally changing for the better!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Yes, that’s the one. Told you I really like the Henry Eilers, so I thought why not add this one. The globe thistles I already have are doing alright, slow to do anything after being eaten by caterpillars though. No quick bouncing back like other plants. Yay for new Governors. Hope it will work out in your State.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

For a few years I really wanted to grow the globe thistles. I think there was a Japanese thistle I wanted to grow too. Then, I started getting more into natives, and now the only thistles I'm interested in growing are the native thistles. The same thing with the Eryngiums. I grew the non native ones that were too big and I didn't like them, but now I grow the native rattlesnake master which I like a lot.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

What kind of cats were eating globe thistles?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Painted Lady. I do have some rattlesnake master, too. Can you believe the deer even ate one of them? And a Manfreda. “Chocolate chips” To me these look like the most unappetizing things. Prickly and all.



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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, I guess your seeds didn't come in. I don't remember how long it took to get my Elephantopus seeds from them. There was a lot of other seeds coming in at the time. They do have seeds that you can't find anywhere else.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Wow, It is a thistle. I never thought they would use it. I have a bunch of new plants for the Painted Ladies.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I just emailed them to see what the hold up is, they sent an order confirmation and said it would ship right away a week ago but never charged my card.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

You got them for free?

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Free imaginary seeds? They never showed up so I got a free order confirmation at this point

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Skip, hope you will get an answer soon. And a discount to make up for the trouble wouldn’t hurt.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay, just unpacked another new book. We might have to start a book club eventually. No pictures in this one.


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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Thanks Iris I hope I get the seeds soon too, although its not like I dont have enough already, and it gives me another reason to go to the plant sales.

That looks like an interesting book. Have you read Planting in a Post Wild World, and Garden Revolution?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Gave the first one to my sister in law. And have the garden revolution. Not completely done with that one though. If I ever get to the point to just have some mowed paths like this picture though...

By now I have kind of a way around 2/3 of the yard that has interest. Not even close to the pictures, but flower beds here and there and shrubs and trees along the way that have some sort of interest in checking out. Working on it.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Thats the vision in those pictures Iris. I convinced myself not to order from the wholesale nursery I was previously thinking about ordering from, and instead spend my time on site prep the next 2 years. If I can get all the trash taken down to ground level and kill the mature plants it will become possible to grow vegetation like that and maintain it by timed and coordinated mowing and other strategies if necessary. I was trying to think of a decent cheap cover crop for part shade, do you think river oats Chasmanthium latifolium or Slender Woodoats Chasmanthium laxum and partride pea would suppress weeds The idea is to grow it for a full season then terminate it and use the debris as a mulch like hay or straw, then either incorporate it into the soil prior to seeding or use a slit seeder to plant the next seed mix. There are standard cover crops that would work for this Im sure, but I like the idea of using natives for the cover too if possible.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)



https://youtu.be/2f6IbbLyztc

https://youtu.be/y60hxLNUsh8


Another prairie I just discovered that's about 30 miles distance. I have to go there.

Wolf Road Prairie, Weschester, Illinois

http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/prairie/plantx/rosinweedx.htm

https://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/prairie/plantx/compassx.htm

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


"Oh, what a beautiful bed!" Yeah, identical to a hundred million others. Dead! Boring!,Lifeless, Barren,Uninspired, Lethal, Ugly!!! Keep following the lost majority right over the edge of the cliff!!! Imagine how many eco important natives could fill this space?!

Rusty Patched Bumble Bee, Bombus affinis. Endangered, near to extinction!

Karner Blue Butterfly, Plebejus melissa samuelis. Endangered!

Hine's Emerald Dragonfly, Somatochlora hineana. Illinois, believed to be extinct but now the few that remain are protected. As all our insect species decline, our native bats are plummeting with them. You all keep planting those Hosta, daylily and Hellebore cultivars now, all you selfish,ignorant people!!! There will be a reckoning!

Grey bat, Myotis grisescens, endangered.

Northern Long Eared Bat, Myotis septentrionalis. I don't understand why so many humans think that bats are ugly. I think they are breathtakingly beautiful!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, I grew the Chasmanthium years ago and it spreads by seeds very fast, so yes I think it would be good for keeping weeds down, because the clumps are dense. I like it too bacause the leaves remind me of bamboo. The reason I stopped growing it was because it was spreading too much, and growing into the neighbor's yard through the fence. I still have some seeds left if you want them. I never grew the C. laxum, don't know anything about it. I'm sure there's got to be info on the internet. I had to wait 2 or 3 months for Senna obtusifolia seeds from China. When I complained there was a language problem. Be patient, almost ready! Now I check out the venders first before ordering. I'm not ordering anything from Asia anymore. Sometimes I have to order seeds from the U.K., but there's no getting around that. I'm thinking of going total prairie in the front. I just don't have the vast space to make it look authentic. The yard was probably going to end up like that anyways lol.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, what new plants did you order? You were up to 22 the last time you talked about it. Don't worry about numbers. They aren't important! I guess I should look around and see what plants are already being offered. I'm on a lot of those lists where they tell you when a plant is back in stock. I have only a few plants to order, but if I go to the native plant sale, I might loose control because I also get a discount for being a member of the Wild Ones. LOL. Are you able to keep any plants outside in pots all year, or does it get too cold?

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

You know Cassia fasciculata is a cheap and common seed! I just read some interesting thing on the AG extension website. It says yes kill the weeds, round up, plowing, tilling or whatever, then do a shallow tilling the day of seeding, either right before (within minutes of) the seeding or right after the seeding, to kill recently germinated weed seeds that are in the "white thread stage", theyre directly below the soil surface but not yet growing above. It puts any new weed seeds and your seeds in an even contest to germinate and grow, and nominally your chosen seeds will win if the conditions favor them. It lets you control the soil seed bank a little. I have to try it! https://articles.extension.org/pages/18525/plant-and-manage-cover-crops-for-maximum-weed-suppression#3

I dont blame people for growing hostas and stuff, there was a time when most of the land outside of cities and in the "margins" was wild and a lot of people here (in NJ) still believe thats the case. Ive seen people say stuff like "build the pipeline bring jobs to south jersey, all the land between the coasts is wilderness anyway!" You drive an hour or two southwest, west, or northwest and it looks like open wilderness space. But a lot of it is weed infested, or active or former cropland and grazing land, or contaminated mining or dumping sites.

Thanks to idiotic roadway, forestry and agricultural practices, wholesale spraying has put invasives on a level playing field and prevented regrowth of natives. The DOT and USDA are responsible for multiflora rose, japanese honeysuckle, kudzu, tree of heaven, japanese knotweed etc... for "wind breaks", "erosion control", and "embankment stabilization." (They didnt think there were natives could do that?)

I dont condemn people for planting hostas, because thats what they like, or what their parents and grandparents did, and that's what they know. Thats what the horticulture and landscaping industries have been working with and toward for 50+ years. Just keep working to present an alternative on your own lot. Show them that maintenance of a meadow or prairie could be less than the lawn and garden paradigm, and beauty and benefit to both the property owner and wildlife exceeds a lawn or a sea of mulch with a smattering of chinese plants. Wildlife gets food and shelter, you get to actually see a broader diversity of wildlife in your yard and engage your senses.

I was going to spend $100 on wholesale plants but i might instead turn it toward a test plot for lawn/weed clearing and seeding.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I still have quite a few Hostas from a bygone era. They will go when each has a native to fill their space. There should be some replacements available with all these new species. Not sure where the Hosta/ daylily hatred stems from. Probably my brother in law. Whenever I go to the perennial forum and see beds totally comprised of non natives I want to throw up. But the majority of them are also growing some natives so at least that's hopeful! I was editing while you were writing, but I said there are still some leftover Chasmanthium seeds if you need them. That soil prep idea sounds really good!

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

My coworker said he set out traps to catch raccoons that were getting into his attic, and instead he caught a bunch of skunks and an Armadillo! That was in Toms River NJ, they are on the loose out in the wild around here too.

The totally non-native landscapes irk me too. A couple of my neighbors have 100+ ft hedges of burning bush. Most of my neighbors have 100% non-native plants, aside from their tall trees. What can you do?

Edit: and thanks for the offer but i think Im going to need seeds by the oz and pound for what I want to try

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It' around 40 bucks for 1/4 pound river oats seed. $150 a pound. Are you going to direct sow them? I can't believe there's armadillos in New Jersey. Hope you don't start getting alligators! I think they found one in Lake Michigan last year. The nice thing about here is that I can burn the prairie plants. My river oats were next to the fence on the west side, so they didn't get morning sun, but they were very happy in that spot!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Roundstone has ounces for $15 which is aprx. 5.625 seeds. The coco peat isn't as moisture retentive as I was hoping. There's not much difference from the regular.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Yeah I would direct sow them, I have to take some measurements and figure out how much I will need. I will probably blend the seed with something else too. I think a pound will cover 640 square feet at a rate of 100 seeds per square foot. Roundstone lists a higher seed count per pound at 90,000 seeds per pound.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I am a bit confused. So you do know what you got? I am supposed to get more rain on Saturday. Oh well.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, I got 30 purple milkweed seeds and a bunch of tropical milkweed seeds as a bonus. All that rain is going to be snow here. I slipped and fell on the the ice yesterday, but I'm ok. I'm like a cat. I always land on all 4s lol!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Be careful out there! When is your last day of frost usually? Here it is supposed to be safe to plant April 15. If it ever gets dry enough. Have all kinds of weird but cool stuff growing in this weather.


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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

What is that, moss? We're supposed to get a wintry mix. Rain, then inches of snow, then sleet and rain, then it will be in the 20s on monday and probably turn into solid ice. Oh joy

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Joliet Native Plant Sale









Be there or be square!

International Asclepiad Society.....member.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I am sorry to hear about your weather. yikes! Cool moss and lichen are growing everywhere. Actually really interesting if there is nothing else to look at.


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay, does your plant sale have enough for everyone? The one here has always been crazy. Some of the shrubs were already gone by the time I got in the sales area 5 minute after it opened. Was in a long line before getting in there. If they do it this time for members to get in an hour early, I might not go at all. This one sale is not really worth the membership fee. And it doesn’t seem they are doing much else during the year. Other than a Christmas banquet. And I am not interested in that.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I don't remember anything being sold out. This is the link to Possability Place, the native nursery that supplies the plants. It's owned by a fellow wild one. You can't just go to that nursery and buy. You have to order the plants in advance. There's one other native nursery, Natural Communities, that's also owned by a wild one and he operates out of his house.

https://www.possibilityplace.com/

https://naturalcommunities.net/

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Interesting. Far as I know the ones sold at mine are grown at one guy’s property and greenhouse by volunteers. There was also one little nursery present with a few plants. Never heard of that nursery before.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

My brother in law gave me a daylily, and when it bloomed it almost looked just like stella which I hate, but the worst part was that it was infested with goutweed which took 2 years to eradicate!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I had to look the goutweed up. Should have gotten some black Swallowtail caterpillars to help you out with that!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I've read that they will eat it, but I don't think they prefer it to other hostplants. Aegopodium podagraria is the Latin name. Iris, would you like some purple milkweed seeds? I have more than enough and some will have to sit in the fridge for another year if they don't get planted.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I would, but I am really terrible with seeds. That’s why I mostly stick with plants (other than things I can just scatter on the ground) I bought the latifolia as seeds before the plant and it didn’t work. Neither did the “man of the Earth” sweet potato vine. The only ones that worked well for me in pots were Frostweed, tick trefoil, tropical milkweed and Mexican sunflowers. Everything else got spindly and didn’t survive the transplanting after. So I don’t think I can do you justice. I have some nodding onion and the yellow ironweed outside now. Guess I will see if that works out. I still have some basketflower seeds to try out.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I'm not going to count my eggs before they hatch ,but if I get enough Asclepias humistrata plants I might send you one. They are very hard to come by, and I had to bid on the seeds on ebay lol. It's native for you but not for me, but I had to grow it anyway. It's just as pretty if not more than the latifolia. The leaves have the deep red veins. Those drive me crazy. The Calotropis seedlings have the red veins too.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I am really excited to see how all your projects turn out. Keep the camera batterie charged! By now I am just ready for Spring. Not that I am even halfway done with my Fall cleanup. I should start pruning some trees, too. There are so many of the little ones I am clueless how to though. The ones that got damaged by the deer before being put in cages mostly.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

vielen Dank Iris! If you add all the comments it's 877. But who's counting? Just a few people with really big mouths lol!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I did have one of these starfish cactus houseplants before. The flowers looked like that.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Lucky you! If only I lived someplace warmer I'd have lots of them. There sure is a lot of different kinds.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

That one stayed inside. I have too many plants inside, too. The freshwater tank could use some plant thinning, too. That’s not even close to the native plant forum at all, just plants. So sorry about that.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

You can talk about any topic here Iris. It's my thread. I'm always talking about non native plants. I just did that thing about some non natives. Every plant is native to some place. It breaks up the monotony to veer off topic a little bit! I said in the heading that this thread would also be about butterfly gardening and the milkweed family Asclepiadoideae. We use non natives like porterweed, popcorn Cassia, kidney vetch and other plants for the butterflies, and besides the 140 Asclepias species that are native to North America, there are still over 5000 species in the milkweed family world wide, so it's not possible to discuss our natives a hundred percent of the time. The high temp. here for Sunday is going to be 14! brrrrh! We're supposed to get rain,sleet, and a bunch of snow too.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Skip, this is what you'll be looking at. The Chasmanthium laxum is nice looking too, but a lot different looking flowers than the C. latifolium, but it grows in the same conditions. I wonder if they both mix with other native plants the same?

Chasmanthium latifolium, Northern Sea Oats.

Chasmanthium latifolium

Chasmanthium latifolium

Chasmanthium latifolium and Asteraceae flower. I won't even attempt to ID this DYC! (damn yellow composite).

Maybe one of you 'stars' on ntp can help me out??? LOL!

Chasmanthium latifolium, Rudbeckia

Chasmanthium latifolium

Chasmanthium latifolium

Chasmanthium latifolium

Chasmanthium laxum, had to use a stock photo because it was the best one of the flowers. This is a promotional photo from Jelitto who sells seeds for Chasmanthium laxum.

Chasmanthium laxum

http://www.perennialresource.com/variety.php?ID=CHALA

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Prairie plants in smaller spaces. And they look great!






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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

The Chasmanthium latifolium looks kind of like the mix of weeds I currently have haha, at least from afar heightwise. Ernst seed lists the C. laxum but they dont always have everything in stock. $92/lb, not aweful.

LOL, I just looked at the cost of an actual cover crop, $1/lb. I'll have to go that route before the final seedintg

I dig the garden pics, especially the first one, thats the most similar to what I am trying to do in front of my house. The repetitive grass inflorescences make it look less random and then they hang around all winter after everything else dies down.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

That's why I had that 1st picture. It reminded me of your front yard too. Could you get away with something like that? I could out here, not sure about the old place, but won't have time to mess with that front yard anyway. Do you think you need a whole pound of seed? I guess you haven't calculated yet. I was cleaning out emails and I actually bought the Elephantopus seeds from Missouri Wildflowers, not Toadshade. I haven't bought any seeds from them.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

What do you mean could I get away with it? As far as the township ordinances... Yes I can get away with it, I will try anyway. No grass or brush over 18" within 10ft of the sidewalk, but there is an exception for ornamental plantings. Some people plant the hell strip around their mail boxes without any issues. Someone around the corner had nice 3-4' Liatris or Verbenas around theirs, another has big lillies.

Im already doing it

The little bluestem grasses are already planted in there, roughly in a line 20" in from the retaining wall. They should get big enough to see this year. Im going to add some butterfly weed in the line of grasses to give it more color.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Yes, I meant the town ordinances. You've got a head start already, so that's good! If I get the front area finished and there's still enough time then I can start on the hellstrip. I want to get a few more rattlesnake masters to mix in. They stand out better in a prairie planting. I love the way they look in that Wolf Road Prairie photo. Is your front retaining wall higher than ground level on the house side? It looks about 2 feet higher than the ground. It could keep plants from leaning on the sidewalk.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

The top of the retaining wall and the ground of the garden bed are about the same level. The ground is a little higher and slopes down to the retaining wall a little. Hopefully the plants dont flop

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Great pictures! Little blue stem grass sounded familiar, so I went out to see what I have. Nope. I have narrow leaf blue eyed grass. That’s not even a grass.I really have to take an inventory.....

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, have you ever checked out Santa Rosa Gardens? They sell a bunch of beautiful big and little bluestem cultivars. I'm going to order their splitbeard bluestem, Andropogon ternarius. It's taking all my willpower not to order any of their several bluestem cultivars! lol. Our last frost date is April 15th too I think. I'm going to grow the bluestems from seed. Once I see how they do, and how I like them, I can decide if I want to get any special cultivars or not for next year. I'm thinking I want some Culver's Root now, and if I grow it I want lavender, and I have a link for lavender seeds, uh oh! Here I go again lol! Maybe I'll order a 'Cupid' too. :) The 'Cupid' is my favorite and I love 'Fascination' too.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Ha ha! I thought you were done! It’s not easy if there are people putting ideas in your head....

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Im attempting to grow narrow leaved blue eyed grass. I sowed a whole pack and a half of seeds in a tray. Last year I tried and none of them germinated.

Hey Jay my order from Toadshade finally shipped today. The owner emailed me back yesterday and said they were waiting for the Penstemon seeds to get cleaned and packaged, thats a good sign right? Sounds like they'll be fresh seeds.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

All right, now you're forcing me to say that word....Sisyrinchium, ouch! I'm not sure which species I have, but it spreads everywhere like garlic chives! It's hard to believe your seeds didn't germinate Skip. You can just surface sow those. It's good news to hear you almost have the Toadshade seeds, and that they're fresh. I'd like to grow a couple more Sisyrinchium species. I put most of these tempting species in my own head myself. It just takes someone else to push me over the edge lol. I was going to use my Sisyrinchium as an edging because it spreads so fast. What bluestem cultivars do you have again Skip? Red October? I'm ordering 'Fascination' too Iris, and a couple 'Cupids'. I love the pink tones of the 'Facination' flowers!

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

'Red October' big bluestem (not yet planted) and 'Carousel' little bluestem (planted in front).

Try saying Kosteletzkya and Schoenoplectus out loud

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I just ordered seeds for Veronicastrum 'Carina' from Plant World Seeds. I want the Culver's roots for lighter cotrasts. I need more rattlesnake masters and lead plants for contrast too. I need Amorpha plants. Trying to grow those from seeds is futile.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


I think the bull rushes need standing water. The Kosteltzkya pentacarpos is gorgeous! That's a new species for me. Thanks!

Kosteletzkya pentacarpos, Malvaceae, Malvales.

Kosteletzkya pentacarpos

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay there is no stopping you! You are a bad influence! All these nice plants I have to look up.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

About Golden Alexander. Yay or nay? I think I should....

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Go for it Iris. They are nice plants and they self sow. I going to bring some Zizia vollunteers over here from the old garden. I'm sorry for being a bad influence but I can't help myself lol! Any milkweed,legume and Impatiens species that I don't have, I have to get. The Kosteletzkya is a wetland plant so I can't grow it. Looks like I'll be going back to Menards for more bins. Hopefully they have more in stock since I cleared the out. As long as there's still walking room on the patio lol!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Oh well. What’s a couple more. Still would like the Monarda citriodora.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Plant World Seeds has some very unusual and great looking plants. Things I've never heard of before. They have a couple climbing Aconitum vines. I never knew those existed either. Most of them are non natives so I won't grow them, but they have some nice natives like the lavender Culver's root.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I got Zizia aurea and Zizia aptera seeds in my trays this year. Got to jam pack the garden!

Jay I have an Aconitum bookmarked... http://www.woodthrushnatives.com/am-online/aconitum-uncinatum-southern-blue-monkshood

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, your Aconitum link takes me to a Beaver Creek page but not the Aconitum page. I grew an Aconitum years ago. It never thrived, and declined over time. I thought there was a wild one growing in shade in the back but it turned out to be the invasive motherwort that's ruining our woodland ecosystems. I'd like to grow Aconitum again. I scattered some Z. aptera seeds in the old garden. I'm not sure if I have any aptera plants from those seeds, because there's Zizia vollunteers all over the place and all the plants are crowded and overgrown. The Z. aureas were bought at the native plant sale. Iris, I tried growing some Monarda citriodora from seeds last year but had bad luck. They were still little seedlings when I planted them outside but they never grew. Lack of sunlight I think. I'm trying them again, and this time they are going in a sunnier spot. I'm growing the Monardas bradburriana and punctata for the first time this year. I think the bradburriana is a lot prettier than the M. fistulosa. I love the red flowered M. didyma. It's my favorite Monarda for the hummingbirds. My lone plant of the didyma has been getting choked by other plants. I hope a little piece of it is still there when I check in a few months. I should really start some more didyma plants from seeds so I can have a few nice clumps of them. I love the pagoda flowers of the citriodora.

Aconitum uncinatum, Southern blue monkshood.

Aconitum uncinatum

Plant World Seeds http://www.plant-world-seeds.com/

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Someone was selling plants of the citriodora on EBay late last Summer, but I figured this would not be the right time for it to be planted. Maybe there will be some around April. I have all kinds of bee balm. I know I have raspberry wine, purple rooster, the wild bergamot and two red ones I forgot the name. Oh and I do have the punctata. That was pretty floppy looking last year. Prairie moon has plants for one kind of the Golden Alexander, just seeds for the other.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I've never grown Monarda successfully, I planted one in early spring and it was consumed by mildew within a week. I want to try Monarda 'Claire Grace' which is supposed to be the most mildew resistant one with M. fistulosa parentage.

The M. punctata is supposed to like sandy soil. Its always recommended by the Pinelands native plant groups. The soil is almost like beach sand down there.

I was thinking I could grow the Aconitum because the critters wouldnt be able to eat it.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Surprisingly I don’t have a problem. Mine are doing great even with our humidity. Phlox is a different story though.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

My Monarda fistulosa gets a lot of powdery mildew after it finishes blooming. I just cut them back, because they don't look so good by then. I'm going to plant the punctatas in sandy soil along with prickly poppies and African daisies and lupins and maybe an Asclepias humistrata........ ooooh! Awesome!!!

This Prairie Nursery in Wisconsin sells species with choices for soil types like tuberosas that grow well in clay ect. I'm sorry about the African daisies but I've always wanted to grow them even way before I became a native plants purist and I still like them but I really blame Wildseed Farms for including them in their 'wildflower' catalog and pushing me over the edge.....yet again! lol.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay, with my name I am not going to rip out my Irisses (is that the right plural) or several other things that are not native. As long as they are not of the invasive kind. Then I will get out the shovel, saw or whatever it takes. If these things die, I will replace them with natives. Honestly this non native shrub is the only thing looking like it is having a good time right now.


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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

What kind of shrub is that?

I finally took inventory of what seeds I have left and updated my trade list. I have 70 species left and I also have a bag full of empty seed packs that were sown, maybe I went overboard. Time to prep some new planting areas.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I think too that where you live in the country is a factor in what you grow. There are so many beautiful non native shrubs that do well in South Carolina and Florida, and the rest of the deep south that growing all those types of plants is pretty much the norm down there. Like you day, as long as they aren't invasives, I don't have any problem with you and others growing them. I still have non native plants all over the place. My goal is to replace them all with natives(over time) and get rid of the couple of them that are invasive like the vipers bugloss and the dames rocket. The bees really love the Echium vulgare so getting rid of that plant is kind of bittersweet! Means I have to plant a bunch more native bee plants to make up for its loss. If that plant were to get loose from my fenced yard it could wreak havoc.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, Samstag ist mein Geburtstag. Dein buch war ein schones Geschenk. Ich fuhle mich so gesegnet. Veilen Dank!

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

People should be free fo grow what they like. A lot of invasives are beautiful plants, I just dont want them taking over all the open space around me at the expense of other wildlife.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, I didn't know you did your trade list. I'm doing mine with all the seeds I have leftover, and then adding my other plants to it in the spring after I take inventory and excavation lol. Making a trade list saves a lot of time if you're a serious trader. I can think of a bunch of times where it would have come in handy recently.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

The Edgeworthia is hardy to zone 7. I think our native Fothergilla is a good alternative. Iris, does that Edgeworthia ever get leaves on it? I couldn't find any pictures of Edgeworthias with leaves. The plural of iris is irises.


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Yes, it’s Edgeworthia chrysantha. Not that long ago identified on name that Plant. Seems harmless. It’s slow growing for sure. It does get leaves. Wasn’t what I ordered, but I will let it stay.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It's an interesting plant from Nepal and southern China. Did your's get flowers? Are they fragrant? It's going to drop down to zero here Monday.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

All these white things you see in the first picture of the shrub are unopened flowers. It had some last year, but they never made it to open. I think it just got too cold . I will take a close up later.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

The Edgeworthia flowers are fragrant. It's closely related to Daphne, which is also fragrant.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, when you get a lot of snow do you have to clear it off the row cover?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, what nursery did you get the Edgeworthia from? What was the shrub you were supposed to get? I used to get a couple catalogs, Wayside Gardens and White Flower Farm. They both stopped sending me their catalogs because I wasn't buying anything from them anymore, but they both sell beautiful, unusual plants, both natives and non natives.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

It’s been 7 years, so I am not completely sure. I certainly ordered a lot since then....Maybe it was Plant Delights? I am pretty sure I ordered a virburnum though.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Jay, I dont clean the snow off. The 0.9oz row cover can hold up the snow. The lightest weight .55oz row cover will rip but the other ones hold up. If you put a pole lengthwise at the top of your hoops spanning the whole thing it will help hold up to the snow and rain.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I can’t even imagine how you take care of all these seeds. For a couple of years I had a Aloysia virgata. In my opinion the best smelling shrub. The pollinators loved it. That one was hard to not replace. Loved just walking by and getting a whiff.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

The deer were on the patio and moved one of my bins. I see their tracks in the snow. I hope they didn't eat my Mexican hats that were still green. They can eat the fennel, I'm not worried about those. I always have bad luck with the Mexican hats. Hopefully winter sowing them will prove more successful!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

The sweet almond bush sounds like a really fragrant, nice plant. I grew the lemon verbena, Aloysia citriodora once, but it never bloomed.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

It was a great shrub, but everything non native that dies is replaced by something native. Oh no, Jay! You are having deer problems now, too?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Here are the close ups of the Edgeworthia flowers. Looks they might make it to open this year! With the flowers facing down and the shrub so small it’s not that easy to see.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I think the deer eyed something still green in my garden. I'm afraid to go out and look. I wonder why your Edgeworthia never finished blooming? I think the climate where they come from is a lot milder. I have some European Geraniums and non native variegated Solomon's seal by the front door, on the north side of the house. It's very shady there, so nothing grows. There is a boxwood in there too that gets enough sun to survive. I'm just leaving those non natives because nothing else will grow there anyway. The Solomon's seals are in the back of that bed where it's even shadier. They were spreading like crazy when I kept them watered, but since I stopped watering them they are dwindling. There might be some native colombines and Dicentra cucullarias in that bed too.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I didn't think tending the seeds was that hard last year. I watered them once a day in the morning with a hose on rain-free days and they were fine. Only on the hottest dry days did i have to water again in the evening but it was super humid all summer which might have helped. Even when we had long rain-free periods it was still super humid.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

And here I was going to complain that it is already raining again. It was just supposed to rain on Saturday.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

My 5 Calotropis seedlings all look healthy. I'm going to put them under the more powerful lights tomorrow and then repot them into bigger containers once they adjust to the lights. The bigger containers will hold moisture longer. They already have those beautiful red veins on their leaves. In about 2 weeks I'm going to start germinating the Gomphocarpus physocarpus, G.fruticosa, and G. cancellatus, Asclepias curassavica, Tweedia caerulea, Dregea sinensis, and a few other plants, to give them all a head start. The Dregea sinensis is fragrant and closely related to Hoyas. Thank God my hose is right next to all my bins. I won't have to water them until I pop their tops.....I'm hoping that's the case lol!


Dregea sinensis, (wattakaka) Asclepiadoideae, Apocynaceae, Gentianales.

Dregea sinensis. Thank you for the seeds talencat!

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Pretty plants. Would those survive winter in a green house or would night temps kill them?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

They would survive in a heated greenhouse, unfortunately I don't have one. I really have no idea how this vine is going to do here. I'm under the delusion it's going to look like the picture lol! I'll check to see if cuttings are doable.*÷×+ Dregea is easy to start from cuttings of new growth. Some Ceropegia plant and vine cuttings in Asclepiadoideae can take 6 months or longer to root. Skip, I sent you some fungi........the good kind!


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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Cool sounds good, I am still waiting for my last seeds, fingers crossed for tomorrow. I'll sprinkle some of that micorrhizae on the milkweed trays. To he honest with you, I always look for the rattiest worst looking pictures of a species to get an idea of how it looks in less than ideal conditions. Hope for the picturesque specimen but prepare for the floppy aphid infested mess lol. The Illinois wildflower page said the Desmodium canadense was particularly susceptible to damaging insect pest but I was pleasantly surprised by mine. Maybe i have enough predatory bugs around, I had a wide array of wasps visiting my plants.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

That's a wise idea about plant photos. I'm going to start doing that lol. There's enough fungi to hit all the milkweeds and maybe then some. Your most prized ones, but hey, aren't they all? haha. Actually I'm hoping my Desmodium canadense plants do get eaten up by a bunch of butterfly caterpillars, just as long as I get to see some flowers.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

So how do you look for the rattiest pictures? This might help stop me from getting any more plants. Of course the nurseries wanting to sell them have the prettiest. Google “(name of the plant) after a hail storm?” Or “after the herd of deer came through?”

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I just google search the species/latin name and go through the pictures. The best example in my mind is Helianthus salicifolius, it looks beautiful in some pictures, especially in the german gardens and dry looking settings, but in other pictures its a floppy mess. A lot of species like that will stretch and flop if they get too much water or fertile soil. You can kind of tell which pictures are for professional gardens and catalogs. and which ones are from wild plants or amateurs.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

That's hilarious Iris! Those vender photos are very deceptive. There are a lot of plant species that you can't find pictures of on google. If you hold your finger on a plant photo and then press 'search google for image' you can find out the name of the species, most of the time. I too, was wondering how you look for the rattiest pictures?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Just for fun I tried the Asclepias latifolia. Since mine looked ratty last year (was just the second year and I was glad it even came back, but still). The pictures of it look great. The ones that even are the latifolia. Should try this with something I am considering to get and is more common to get some more real images.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

A. latifolia is native to the western part of the country. I winter sowed seeds for it. There's a good chance it will overwinter here. I'm growing the A. hallii too which comes from even further west. You know when you look at google images, the further you scroll down the more you start seeing other species and also things that aren't even plants. There's a lot of very rare species in the milkweed family that when you look for their image, the best you can find is this.


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Your picture reminds me. Did you find a great place for the print you accidentally got instead of seeds?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

No, it's around here somewhere, buried under clutter, no doubt lol. I like spartan suroundings, kind of monestary-like. Not into decorations, knick knacks and crafts. I don't watch much tv. Too many commercials! I feel that watching it is an insult to my intelligence.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)



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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I think I watched that ecobeneficial bog garden interview last weekend lol. I have been looking into bog, pond, and even rain garden building and it is a lot of work and engineering! Im still thinking over it.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I liked that bog garden with the sundews. They are a.lot of work to create.

Convergent evolution of tubular flowers for the consumption and manipulation of insects.

Ceropegia, Asclepiadoideae, Apocynaceae, Gentianales

Ceropegia

Nepenthes, Nepenthaceae, Caryophyllales.

Nepenthes

Aristolochia, subfamily Aristolochioideae, family Aristolochiaceae.

Aristolochia

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Silene caroliniana

Geranium carolinianum

Geranium carolinianum

Illicium floridanus

Illicium floridanus

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Look what I just found!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

You are so lucky Iris. I still can't understand why all these leps use your property. I've never known or read about anyone who's had as much activity as you......except maybe Doug Tallamy lol. I put that video about South Carolina native plants for you. I'd never heard of Illicium. Do you think that's a Polyphemus cocoon? I get some bagworms on my bald cypresses but since I've started hanging wren houses in them they've pretty much dissapeared. I do have decorations that I've collected over the years, but nice things like native American pottery, hand carved Chinese soapstone sculptures and Aztec copal incense burner for cerimonial use???

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

It looks like the one I had in Summer. It is on an oak, so hopefully it is. I will watch videos tonight.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I was actually just looking at my trees to see where I should start pruning. There are some really neat looking fungi. No wonder since it is still so wet. Some puddles have been here so long, there is algae growing.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Does it get real wet there around this time every year? Now they're saying 27 for Monday! There's a lot of cute birds around. They sing by my window in the morning when I wake up. I want to start putting out seed for them but I know the squirrels and the chipmunks will give me trouble!





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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Iris, what kind of tree was that cocoon on? I have to talk irises. I don't like those fancy, big frilly ones that have new cultivars churning out all the time. I like all of our native irises and the Sisyrinchiums.


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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Ive seen a couple chipmunks on the ground in my yard and lots of squirrels on the bird feeders. I argue with my wife about the bird feeders because they just draw in rodents when she fills them all the way every day. I like to fill them most of the way once a week, see the flush of birds, then let them empty out. Im trying to plant berry producing shrubs instead.

You guys are going to be my caterpillar people this year, I saw a lot of them last year but only recognize the woolly bear.

As for irises... I dont know anything about em. If I cant get my Sisyrinchium seeds going again Im going to buy some, the nursery down the road sells the Sisyrinchium angustifolium "Lucerne" cultivar. I see Iris versicolor for sale at all the plant sales but dont want to bother with something that cant handle it if the soil dries out for a day.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

We have caterpillars covered and we know others like Miss Sherry that are amazing. She knows so much about host plants too. I'm losing my blue flag iris to dry soil. I had the water from the downspout channeled through pvc to empty in my garden and making that small area hold more moisture. The blue flag iris and the obediant plants flourished in that spot. Then the Empress tree got big and the roots changed the topography of that bed and the underground pvc got plugged up. Now that the blue flag has to grow in dryer soil it's declining. I might try to create another moist area for it because a big clump of them is beautiful and they look nice when not in bloom. I'm torn on the birdseed issue. I have these beautiful birds that I want to help out but attracting rodents could cause garden damage. As far as filling them every day. It seems like they will eat as much seed as I put out. Birdseed isn't cheap so I can only afford to fill them once or twice a week. I have a baffle. It keeps the rodents from climbing the pole, but they will still climb other things and jump onto the feeders.The Sisyrinchium 'Lucerne' is a nice looking cultivar. I was viewing purple leaved Heucheras as being non natives, but they are native. I think it was because I was grouping them together with daylilies and Hostas. The 2 other species that also generate 'cultivar crazes'. The list of Heuchera cultivars is reaching mind boggling proportions.

Sisyrinchium Lucerne (on a really good day lol). Skip, did you watch the video where the woman said she uses her blue eyed grass as an edging too. Maybe you got some bad seeds??? Just would like to add that Irises have such a clean and pleasant fragrance that any type of Iris with a killer perfume is ok in my book!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Color combination comparison.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I have the Lucerne. It didn’t get to flower because of you know who.... the deer started now eating the foliage of the big frilly Iris, too.