What natives are you growing in 2019?

Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

As a result of my time spent on GW I have been introduced to a great number of beaitiful, interesting plants. I wan't my plantings to look comepletely natural, yet at the same time I want to grow about every species imaginable. Needless to say, I think I've gone overboard, but I'm going to embrace it and run with it. What plants do you want to grow next year. Millions of plants, millions of topics. Talk about whatever you like. Discuss matters with a friend, whatever, use this thread as a meeting place, I don't care. These are the seeds I'm sowing for next year. If any of you have any tips about germination issues with any of these species, they would be much appreciated.
Schizachyrium scoparium
Allium stellata
Hieracium maculatum
Hieracium auratiacum
Anemone virginica
Eurybia divaricata
Chasmanthium latifolium
Agastache foeniculum
Commelina virginica
Anemone cylindrica
Dimorphotheca aurantiaca
Cirsium discolor
Symphyotrichum laeve
Campanula americana
Dalea villosa
Cirsium altissimum
Callirhoe bushii
Callirhoe involucrata
Beckmannia syzigachne
Pilea pumilla
Amsonia illustris
Anaphalis margaritacea
Argemone polyanthemos
Thermopsis caroliniana
Verbena stricta
Verbena hastata
Triosteum perfoliatum
Triodanis perfoliata
Thaspium trifoliatum
Solidago odorata
Vernonia fasciculata
Monarda citriodora
Ratibida columnaris
Silphium perfoliatum
Phlox pillosa
Polytaenia nuttallii
Solidago caesia
Lobelia syphilitica
Dalea foliosa
Dalea purpurea
Desmodium canadense
Delphinium exaltatum
Vernonia noveboracensis
Carex sprengellii
Lespedeza violacea
Buchloe
Sporobolus heterolepis
Panicum oligosanthes
Rumex altissimus
Monarda bradburiana
Bouteloua gracilis
Carex pennsylvanica
Bouteloua curtipendula
Boechera canadensis
Antennaria neglecta
Agalinis tenuifolia
Agalinis aspera
Agalinis auriculata
Monarda punctata
Taenidia integgerima
Eragrostis spectabilis
Scrophularia marilandica
Scrophularia lanceolata
Glandularia bipinnatifida
Plantago rhodosperma
Scutellaria suffrutescens
Lobelia cardinalis
Oenothera pilosella
Vernonia lettermanni
Blackfoot Daisy
Scutellaria resinosa
Linaria purpurea ( name change ?)
Helianthus salicifolius
Hydrophyllum virginianum
Gnaphalium obtusifolium
Osmorhiza claytonii
Gentiana puberulenta
Heracleum maximum
Impatiens pallida
Impatiens balfouri
Machaeranthera tenacetifolia
Lupinis petennis
Gaillardia aristata
Anthyllis vuneraria
Asclepias viridiflora
Gomphocarpus cancellatus
Tweedia caeruleum
Gomphocarpus physocarpus
Cynanchum laeve
Asclepias viridis
Calotropis procera
Calotropis gigantea
Asclepias sullivantii
Asclepias stenophylla
Asclepias speciosa
Asclepias hirtella
Asclepias hallii
Asclepias incarnata, species
Asclepias incarnata, ice ballet
Asclepias curassavica
Asclepias purpurescens
Asclepias cordifolia
Asclepias asperula
Asclepias latifolia
Asclepias oenotheroides
Asclepias arenaria
Asclepias exaltata
Asclepias ovalifolia
Asclepias perennis
Asclepias pumilla
Asclepias tuberosa
Asclepias verticillata
Asclepias variegata
Silene regia
Plantago virginica
Apocynum cannibinum
Senna obtusifolium
Annuals
Dwarf Helenium ( the one that likes dry conditions(
Gaillardia nuavis
Gaillardia pulchella
Zinnias
Cosmos
Tithonia
Coriopsis tinctoria
Drummond's Phlox
Ipomopsis rubra
Verbena tenuisecta
Salvia coccinia
Verbesina encelioides
Well, I know I forgot a few. Are there any plants that any of you are drooling over ???

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Reptibark is fir bark, similar to pine bark. The reptibark/fir bark is good, its just more expensive and the bags I tried were mostly pieces larger than 1/4". Some people on here take the larger pieces and run them through a blender, coffee grinder or leaf shredder to make smaller pieces.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)


I intend to jam all these in the strip next to my driveway :) the sisyrinchium, zizia and mertensia should be spent by summer and give way to the purple love grass, milkweed and finally smooth blue aster and blue-stemmed goldenrod. The thermopsis and zizia should be flowering during the transition to summer (in their second or third year).

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Sounds like a great plan. The seeds came in I think. I am watching over my 87 yo dad. I'll mail them tomorrow.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

There are 50 Nasella tenuifolia seeds. They are tiny. 25 is plenty for me. Wish I could get ahold of some Asclepias lanceolata and rubra seeds. I'm still shocked about the mycorrhizal reveal.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Some more new plants on the list. A seed is waiting in the Earth, for rain to come and give him birth, that's all he really needs to set him free!

For the painted ladies!


Painted Lady Butterfly

Cirsium discolor, pasture thistle. Hostplant.

Antennaria neglecta, prairie pussytoes. Hostplant.

ceonothus americana, New Jersey Tea.

Asclepias cordifolia, heart leaved milkweed. Monarch butterfly hostplant.

Delphinium exaltatum.

Plantago rhodosperma. I really wanted P. patgonica but it was immposible to find seeds for it, so I settled on this one from Native American Seed. I quite like it, but my search continues. Plantago species are hostplants for Buckeye bitterfly caterpliilars.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Boutelua gracilis, blue grama.

Verbesina encelioides, cowpen daisy. Loved by most, hated by a few ( barron :). It's a hostplant for the Borderpatch Butterfly.

Borderpatch Butterfly

Borderpatch Butterfly caterpillar.


Tweedia caerulea. South America. Asclepiadoideae, Apocynaceae, Gentianales. From the 0.01 % of me that likes growing unusual tropicals and exotics. Monarch caterpillars don't like eating Tweedia for some reason. Tweedia has some close relatives in the 0xypetalum genus. One of them has flowers that are flaming red. A vine. Native.........to South America.

Calotropis procera. Asia and Africa. A giant, fragrant milkweed.

Pilea pumila, clearweed. A nettle family member with no stinging hairs. A hostplant for the Red Admiral Butterfly.

Red Admiral Butterfly.

Red Admiral Butterfly caterpillar.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Hellenium amarum. A Hellenium that likes it on the dry side.

schizanchyrium scoparium, little bluestem.

Phlox pillosa.

Oenothera pilosella. Prairie Phlox.

Mentzelia lindleyi, Lindley's blasing star. Just added to the list.

Panicum oligosanthes, Scribner's Panic Grass.

Phlox drummondii, Drummond's phlox.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

BIGGEST ALL TIME THUGS

The biggest thugs I ever grew. Paulownia tomentosa. I grew it from a seed 'gifted' by a gw member. It was such a horrible experience that it's hard to talk about. It grasped all my perennials in it's thisty tentacles and rearanged my flagstone walkway. Not to mentiin all the suckers that grew 6 feet every month. Keep it in Asia where it belongs!

Campsis radicans. The battle continues. Hacking, burning, poisoning, and it's still going strong.

Phyllostachys nuda. The hardiest running bamboo. I wanted it to reach its maximum height of 20 feet, but mine never got taller than 6 after 5 years. It had the fastest running roots out of all the plants I've ever grown. The good thing is that the roots stay close to the surface. It's like pulling a long rope out of the ground.

Helianthus tuberosum. Jerusalem Artichoke. Perennial sunflowers are known for their spread but out of all the species of them I've grown, this one takes the cake! Evergrowing roots radiating 360 degrees infiltrating every perennial they can slice into.

Ipomoea, the annual morning glory. 'Mourning gory'. No deadheading of them for years. They are the Kudsu at my old garden, and they're banned from the new one. This is a funny subject. When I tried to grow a large red flowered Ipomoea I had a bunch of problems with bugs and voles eating them, but all the morning glorys that came up naturally weren't being touched. After using repellants, insecticidal soaps and chicken wire I managed to grow out 2 or 3 plants. They bloomed, but the flowers were just the usual purple :(. I tried growing a yellow one under another species name, but had no luck. Always thought it would be cool to grow the yellow, bushy Hawaiian species.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Next year when I go to the native plant places I'll ask about Asclepias lanceolata and rubra. The places I usually go are in the west in the Piedmont and along the Delaware river but there are plant sales in south jersey where the soil is sandy and the conditions for A. Lanceolata exist. Those people would know something about it. It looks like you will have to create a bog garden and a sandy garden for each plant, could be a fun project.

Ive talked to my wife casually about installing a pond and she is all about it, some day i will be out there with a shovel bumbling through that project haha

I bet you could get away with a sort of hugelkultur design for a bog garden, dig a shallow depression where water will collect, then dig down more, fill it with rotting logs, cover those in soil, then plant your plants.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, your seeds are packed and ready to mail. Same kind of package as before. Be expecting it!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

My spring ephemerals. I want to start a new spring garden with ferns in the mix. I've been drooling over maidenhairs for a long time. Adding those and Dicentra eximia, awesome. I think the Maianthemum stellatum and the Caulophyllum thalictroides aren't true ephemerals.

Maianthemum stellatum, starry Solomon's seal.


Geranium maculatum, wild geranium.


Erythronium americanum, Trout lilly.


Didecatheon meadia. Shooting star.


Dicentra cucullaris, Dutchmans breeches.


Caulophyllum thalictroides, blue cohosh.


Sanguinaria canadensis, bloodroot.


Arisaema triphyllum. Jack in the pulpit.


Trillium cuneatum, wake robin.

Claytonia virginica., spring beauty.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)



"hugulkultur"??? say what. Bog garden, yes I figured I'd need one to grow rubra. Hope those native people out there do have a lead. I'd have to have Justicia, cardinal flowers, Rhexias and horsetails in there too, and that little white aquatic smartweed. I got a neighbor couple hooked on gardening. They got so ambitious they made a pond with fish and everything.

I'd make one this year, but I think I'm already 'bogged down' with enough to do. There are smartweeds in the pond but they're little. Now that I see how hot that rocking pitcher plant is next to Rhexia's, I want it. lol. Dandy, my address is jbirdyj@gmail.com

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dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)

Jay-your post has gone viral! I go away for a week and it's way more than I can read at one sitting.

I grew Rudbeckia maxima up here about ten years ago and they survived, but only for a few years. But sure loved those gigantic cone heads. I found R triloba growing by itself one year and collected the seeds and germinated them, set a few plants in the garden and the following year had the most interesting discovery with something I didn't recognize so just let it keep growing and then in mid august, it started blooming, and did it ever bloom. Must have been 500 blooms on that 4 foot plant. Absolutely spectacular for two months straight. R triloba planted in sun with moist soil(and only a few plants!) can be a show stopper.

Although a southern species, Amsonia hubrectii is one of my hardiest plants up here in z3a. Thirty two below zero doesn't faze it at all. Seeds for this came from Easy Living in Missouri.

Those of you in the central NA flyway need to have what I call the Monarch filling station, Liatris ligulistylis. They just have to have it. They will swarm over it above everything else. Unless of course only the Joe Pye Weed is available.

Joe Pye Weed during migration.


Rudbeckia triloba

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Dandy, great pics and write up, thanks!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, I sent your seeds out yesterday. They are supposed to arive on Monday.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Dandy,the Amsonia sounds interesting. I'm surprised it's that hardy. So the R. triloba doesn't get out of control for you. Here it seeds everywhere, but it is beautiful.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Thanks Jay, cant wait! My trays and containers came today, Im ready to keep going.

My mom used to grow R. hirta and it took over the whole garden too. The Amsonia sounds nice.

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dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)

The Rudbeckia triloba does seed itself around everywhere, but there's a lot of places it's needed.

Jay-I had hoped we could do a trade as I have some things I'm sure you don't. But I never heard from you.

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texasranger2

Dandy, Thats a great photo of the monarchs. I'm too dry for Joe Pye Weed but I like them. I've only got one Rudbeckia maximus but the plant has become gigantic here in zone 7. I'm sowing seed to start a couple more up front.

The monarch's prefer my lantana's over everything else including the liatris here in Oklahoma. I replaced a privet hedge with various types of large, hardy Lantana, Salvia greggii, White Mist Flower, Turk's Cap Malva and Flame Flower (Anisacanthus wrightii). Its become a long row of hummingbird/butterfly heaven along the back border.

The most monarchs I ever saw at one time was on a bank of penstemons in a yard up the street where we walk. I could not believe my eyes, it was solid monarch butterflies, literally hundreds of them like a cloud. We wished we had a camera but didn't. I walked over there and was surrounded by monarchs in fall. Unfortunately the penstemons died or didn't winter over and we've never seen such a sight again. All of the penstemons I grow bloom in spring but they do attract hummingbirds.

A yearly spectacular siting is at the History Museum where there is an area planted in asters which I think are Aromatic Asters. These attract all types of butterflies including monarchs which seem to ignore the other plants when the asters bloom. I collected seeds the other day and I am testing them in a damp coffee filter in a baggie. Prairie Nursery says they only need warm; time will tell.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Dandy, I never got a message from you. I had no idea! Sure, I'd love to do a trade. Hi Texasranger, love listening to you ,as always! Skip, they were a bit stingy on the Mexican Feather Grass seeds. I sent you about 30, but I'm thinking that you couldn't possibly grow that many plants at once, or could you??? Dandy, I liked the Monarch photo too. I didn't catch what species of joe pye that was. There's a few. I was swamped with Monarch caterpillars this year. They were roosting in my oak trees on there way back. I was wanting joe pye seed. It's a staple, that's why I need it lol.




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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I was looking at arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi. An best kind with 16 different species is $15 an ounce, there's another one that has 4 species that's $27 a pound. I have to get some for the sake of my milkweeds.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Google is offering to translate this page from latin, ha!

TR, your post really got me jonesing to order some more Penstemons, but Im going to stop myself before my family stages an intervention. Your privet to hummingbird/butterfly heaven conversion is a perfect illustration to me of how small changes can help out life a little.

Jay, could I grow that many, is that a challenge? Im sure I could but what am I going to do with them all? ahh you're making me think about moving shrubs around in anticipation of the day they start casting shade on perennials.

I have a pack of hollow stem Joe pye if you'd like some. I planted 5 or so last year but something ate the seedlings after I planted them. Fingers cross they come back from the roots.

Are mycorrhizal inoculants necessary for in-ground plantings? What are the chances the spores are already in your soil?

You seemed to have a question about Hugelkultur before, its just a name for a gardening method where rotting wood is buried in the soil, or mounded and covered in soil, and then plants are grown on top. If you've ever stepped on a rotting log or picked one up in the woods, you see its soft and wet like a sponge. The idea is that it holds moisture in the soil and slowy leaches nutrients, and the garden seldomly has to be watered.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Actually 30 of the feather grass isn't a lot, you could grow that many easy, but it's enough for a start. Very small seeds. You have to squint. I was thinking of the pink muhly grass when I was picturing it duh. Now, you wouldn't possibly be growing 30 of those? There's way more than 30 seeds of those. I like that crumbly rotten log material that you find in the woods. I've collected it and mixed it with my garden soil. I think I brought a colony of woodland ants to my yard that way. There is a spot where I'm piling up fallen logs. Skip, you probably had it written down in latin and the joe pye went over my head. Dandy, I got your message and sent a reply. I don't know if you got it, the pm here doesn't work all the time. Let me know if you got my reply.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Thaspium trifoliatum, meadow parsnip.

I like growing ubellifers and my butterfly gardening gives me even more reason to collect them. I only had one black swallowtail caterpillar this year. I found it on one of 4 rue snippings that I was going to try to root (fail :(). The cuttings withered, ( too much humidity), I ran out and got 2 mature rue plants. Glad I was on a milkweed mission of mercy and focused because that nursery had some amazing plants. Didn't make it out without a sensative plant sticking on me. They had bananas and everything OMG Succulant specialist. Get your Duddleas while you can, the rustlers are depleting them fast! Anyways, umbellifers, some of the new native ones that are Black Swallowtail host plants

Common rue, Ruta . Interesting because it's in the citrus family and Black Swallowtail butterfly caterpillars only normally eat plants in the carrot family BUT Giant Swallowtails and a couple other Swallowtail species do eat citrus trees, so both plant families must have some common chemical, molecular, terpene connection.....woh ... deep man!!!


Bronze fennel. I find the Black Swallowtails prefer the more aromatic carrot family members like dill and fennel. Of the fennels they seem to prefer the bronze.

Bronze fennel. I like a little bit of crushed fennel seed in pizza and spegetti sauce. The fresh is good on baked fish or in tuna salad. Italians like to eat a salad made of fresh fennel and oranges. I made it once and it was nothing to write home about. I don't get it? There's still a couple Italian foods I'd like to try like garum. The Romans ate it on bread, I want to try it on some crusty bread.


Dill, I like using dill a lot too. On baked fish, in tuna salad, deviled eggs, soups, fish sauces.Pirogies, an eastern european thing I come from the area of Transylvania, no lie, not me, my ancesters ! Love dill on the pirogies, don't get me started on potato sausage.

Osmirhiza Claytonii, Sweet Cicely. I love the smell of the leaves. So fresh. I've scattered seeds of it before with no success. This time I'm winter sowing it and not taking any chances. I think all the Ageratina vollunteers made germination impossible. God knows how many dormant seeds lay in my soil and which kinds. I once had a climbing fumitory appear after years in the ground. I babied it all that year and it seemed very healthy. I was sure I'd see flowers the next year. I didn't. It ultimately dissapointed me twice, insult to injury, I haven't tampered with it since, I have enough of its close relatives already anyway. Weird, I just drifted to a( whole nuther) plant family entirely!


Polytaenia nuttallii, prairie parsley. Delicious to both caterpillars and humans.

The flower of Thaspium trifoliatum. There is also a rare purple flowered subspecies of it puctured below. I've tried to find seeds for it but no luck. It's another on my 'highly desirable,but unatainable list'.

Purple flowered subspecies of Thaspium trifoliatum.

Heracleum maximum. Cow parsnip. Might cause a skin rash I DON'T CARE I WANT TO GROW IT! Gets big, really big, 12 feet. I like big tropical looking leaves tucked away in a small corner solwhere near some choice potted exotics and I won't have to worry about their size until year 2 when they bolt.

Heracleum maxumum. It's one of our natives and closely related to and very similar to its evil cousin Heracleum, yeah I think I finally have this crazy name memorized. It was as agonizing to learn as schizachyrium lol, mantegazannianum, piece of cake, Heracleum mantegazannianum. It blisters, it blinds! I hear that in some parts of the country this dissapearing, but essential native is being sprayed because of its close resemblance to Heracleum mantegazannianum. The umbellifers seem to draw a lot of wasps to their flowers, which isn't very good for the caterpillars. In my sandy garden where I grow the leadpkant, manfreda, rattkesnake master, talinum,ect I get these large wasps sort of like tarantula hawks and they dig holes down in the sandy soil, bury paralized spiders, and lay their eggs on them. I've also had wasps that built tubular mud homes. They would make them in the shade out of the rain. I broked one open and looked inside and saw an orange pillbug spider. I need all the pillbug spiders I can get. Actually the crustasions don't do much damage other than mow down precious seedlings when I try to start them in the ground. Never do they touch any of the nearby, similar, fresh seedlings that popped up on their own, just the ones I planted. ??? It's a conspiracy!

For the bees. They are needed for milkweed pollination and they are the reason all the flowers still sing.

https://youtu.be/IJrKlSkxRHA

I'm not finished with all the native umbellifers but I maxed out the photos.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I will probably grow 2 or 3 pink muhly grasses for myself, however my sister is coming over tomorrow to talk about getting a native garden going, and the pink muhly grass could be a part of her scheme. She has brutal full sun in a suburban corner lot, and that grass would be a good choice for her.

Is that second picture fennel?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Yes, it's fennel. I forgot to label it. The guy who sent me the variegata seeds, the one who I got pissed at for hoarding them, and then selling them for more than the price of gold..... He lowered the price, I bought them, he sent them, I recieved them,..... and then.......yesterday I get another letter from him with perennis seeds in it. ??? What's up with this? In my attempts to procure an enemy I somehow made a good friend. I feel like I should send him some seeds.lol. Yeah Skip, 3 sounds about right with all the other stuff you have but those 3 will really stand out and warm everything up! I considered growing the hybrid Muhlenbergia cultivar 'Pink Flamingo' but I'm at the northern tip of its range and M. capillaris does better here. There's a nursery in North Carolina that should have A. rubra and A. lanceolata in the spring. They do offer a nice selection at my native plant sale but it's more geared towards people starting out. I'm growing a whole bunch of natives from prairie moon that they don't offer and even some natives that Prairie Moon doesn't offer. But like with the milkweeds for example. You can only get common, swamp, butterfly weed, and rarely verticillata, but never anything else like A. exaltata and A. ovalifolia.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, if your sister would like and of my sunnier or xeric flower seeds shes more than welcome!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I was thinking of using some of the rotting logs for my edible mushroom garden. Amanita muscaria grow on live oaks. I wonder if a tree can be innoculated?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/terra-preta

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

https://youtu.be/lh6RWgyDnJw

There was once an expansive natural wetlands close to me, but greedy men destroyed it.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

That was a really sad video Jay I had never heard of the Grand Kankakee swamp. Here is that version of what has gone on in NY/NJ. https://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/07/nyregion/nyregionspecial2/07rCOVER.html "The first settlers encountered the dense historic Eastern deciduous forest, and promptly cut it down not once, but many times over for farmland, pasture and lumber, and for fuel for homesteading, brickmaking, mining and a cornucopia of industries."

Well I suppose we can consider humanity itself a force of nature and try not to lament the loss of biodoversity and biomass.

On a brighter note, here I have created temporary homes for several more species

I have to mix up more soil to fill a few more trays. These are species I have left to sow:

Agastache scrophulariifolia
Anaphalis margaritacea pearly everlasting
~Antennaria plantaginifolia
Asclepias curassavica
Asclepias purpurea
Asclepias variagata
Asclepias verticillata
Asclepias viridiflora
Campanula americana
Circium discolor- pasture thistle
~20 Elymus hystrix
~30 Eragrostis spectabilis - purple love grass
Gnaphalium obtusifolium- sweet everlasting
Helianthus salicifolius
Ipomopsis rubra
Lobelia cardinalis- cardinal flower
Lobelia siphilitica- great blue Lobelia
Mimosa pudica
~Panicum oligosanthes
Silphium perfoliatum- cup plant
Scrophularia marilandica- late figwort
Thermopsis caroliniana
Triodanis perfoliata (annual)

?Muhlenbergia cappilaris
?Elephantopus carolinianus
?Ratibida columnaris

I saw these aerial pictures on another website, I hope the creator doesn't mind me posting it here. I was blown away by the space commited to the native plant garden. There is even a fallen log from a red oak purposefully left laying on the ground near the back.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Why do you have question marks in front of the last 3? I know you haven't got the Muhlenbergia yet. There's another 3 that aren't up there. The Nasella tenuifolia, the Aruncus dioicus, and the Amsonia illustris. Those are nice sized pots. A lot less scrambling in the spring. The arial garden is nice but I wouldn't have so much pokeweed, I'd mix in a few nicer looking natives instead. And I don't know what the grape vine project is? I tried growing concord grapes for a few years, but it was a waste of time.A lot of those seeds you're sowing are tiny and dustlike. A little funnel seems to help on a lot of them. Especially the ones that bounce and roll. I could have never pulled this off using milkjugs. I ordered 5 pounds of arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi. The mix has 7 species. There's one that has 15 species, but it's expensive. Now I'm wondering if bio char would be good for plants. I could learn how to make it and put all the fallen wood to good use. It would be too expensive to use on a big project.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)
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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Today I'm finishing sowing. I'm sowing the milkweeds 10 to 12 seeds per bin so they will have more room. This is what I'm sowing.

Asclepias perennis

Asclepias humistrata

Asclepias variegata

Asclepias arenaria

Asclepias hallii

Asclepias curassavica

Asclepias tuberosa

Asclepias incarnata, white

Asclepias incarnata, pink

Mentzelia lindleyii

Commelina dianthifolia

Senna obtusifolia

Aruncus dioicus

Papaver somniferum

Muhlenbergia capillaris

Nasella tenuifolium

That should almost wrap it up except for a couple milkweed seed packets I somehow misplaced, and had to reorder. Looks like everything is neat and under control on your end Skip.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Jay, I had the question marks because I thought I had Ratibida already but cant find it and I wasnt totally sure what else was coming. I dont know what the grape vine project is either, and Pokeweed is ugly and common but still valuable to a lot of birds, its also pretty much a pain to get rid of so I can understand why it's there. I thought it was an interesting garden nonetheless. I have a clean funnel I can use for the tiny seeds. I'll finish mixing the last of my pinebark and fill and sow as many trays as I can tonight.

How many milkweed seeds should I put in each pot? I know theyre rare, maybe 2 per container?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I wouldn't crowd them. I'm doing my milkweeds now. With 12 or 10 seeds in each bin. They have a lot of room. A lot of the hard to find milkweed seeds come in 10. I have 4 bins just for variegata because I went through so much hell to get them. I'm pretty sure I sent you Mexican hat seeds. I don't know. I misplaced some milkweed seeds and I treat them like valuables so I might have messed up. Was thinking of a safe for my milkweed seeds. One that I can't break into lol. If you don't have the ratibida I've got extras I can send in a real white envelope. Be real careful with the Nasella grass seed. One wrong move and their history, unless you have an electron microscope! That kellogs soil is pretty good. It has lots of wood particals. ritabidabadoo!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, I'm sure I sent you 4 different kinds of seeds, the Amsonia, the Aruncus, the pink Muhly grass and the Mexican feather grass. I remember you saying you wanted to grow the Mexican hat. I guess I spaced out and forgot. I had all my seeds out and was sending seeds to 6 other people at the same time I was doing yours. I'm really sorry, I'll send them to you tomorrow.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I finished winter sowing the milkweeds and ran out of coco peat. I'll have to get another bag at the hydroponics store tomorrow. I got this liquid fertlizer that's for plants in coco. It's Sensi Grow part a and part b.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5556102/another-article-about-bugs-and-not-a-goodone#23346085 read the link in this thread, same vein as the stuff we were talking about last night

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I'm jay1959 at i naturalist. A citizen scientist. Doing important milkweed and insect interaction observations. Nice artcle, upsetting. And Doug Tallamy got a mention in the comments. I have no recollection of what was said last night but I'll take your word for it lol.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

As a kid, every milkweed I walked up to had a Monarch caterpillar on it. Caterpillars of all kinds were more noticable on plants everywhere. There used to be a couple species of large moths that were common. There cocoons used to hang everywhere. I raised some of there caterpillars. The Cecropias liked box elder leaves. In real life these moths are more than 5" across.

Cecropia moth.


Polyphemus moth.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

https://youtu.be/BZ-kCBwmiB8

The wildflowers of the New Jersey highlands featuring the endangered yellow flowered Hammond's Spring Beauty.

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texasranger2

Native American Seed offers Gallardia aestivales seed in D-paks. $6.00 per pack.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

TR, thanks, I must have missed that when I was looking at the site. :) .....TR, they have the big red sage. Do you grow any? The aestivalis is a big player imo.

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texasranger2

Jay

Big Red Texas Sage is at the top of the list I posted a couple days ago on the thread 'Strange Exercise (for you and me)' on the Perennials Forum listing seeds I am sowing which you have been posting on.

I want to try it in full sun to see how it behaves.

We talked about this plant once before some time back. I posted pictures of it from my garden to show you the flowers were more purplish than red but maybe you forgot. It has a very distinct smell which is strong on warm humid summer nights. To me it smells like fine old furniture, like the inside of some antique cabinets.

I can't really see how G. aestivalis is a bigger player than the other varieties of Gaillardia. They all attract the same pollinators and are similar in every respect.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Your comments are often rich with info and pictures so it's hard for me to remember everything perfectly. I remember talking about the big red sage with mara I think. I wouldn't even attempt growing this far north, I'll just settle with the S. coccinia. Aestivalis, I wanted to do a garden heavily inspired by yours and for some reason I feel like the G. aestivalis will give it more that effect though it's interesting to hear your take because you are already there and light years ahead. I do have a thing for Gaillardias. I want to grow them all. Good there's only a handful of species.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I just looked at the Native American Seed site, and even typed in Gaillardia aestivalis, and nothing came up and they don't seem to be offering it anymore. I went through the entire paper catalog again and didn't see it there either. Helenium amarum and Mentzelia will substitute, but it just ain't the same :(


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texasranger2

Its listed in my 2018 Spring catalog in the D-pak section

Page 71

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

TR, I found it, thanks. Can't believe I missed it!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

This is frustrating. I can't find a way to order the D pack of seeds online. It's not included in their online list, and there's no place to just write in the item number. I may have to order the aestivalis seeds by mail but it's worth the hastle.

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texasranger2

Check the mail order station near the end of the catalog. You can order online, mail, phone or fax. They have a 1-800 number. Minimum order is $15 so make sure you have some other choices ready.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Other choices? Hmmm! I don't know where to start lol! Put another bin order in lol!.....EDIT, I'm waiting to here back from the online help at NAS, or I'll just try ordering the G. aestivalis seeds by phone in the morning. The other choices will take about 2 minutes.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Claytonia virginica.


I've always liked spring beauties. I had no idea there were 26 species of them in North America. Most are in the west. Claytonia is in an obscure family, Montiaceae. Seeds for a few species are available. C. virginica, C. caroliniana, C. siberica, and C. perfoliata, miners lettuce, ebible I take it.

Claytonia virginica var. hammondiae. New Jersey highlands. Endangered. Currently being protected.

containing obscure genera. It's still very apparant that they're Caryophyllales. The rare and endangered yellow Hammond's Spring Beauty is a subspecies of Claytonii virginica.

Claytonia lanceolata

Claytonia rubra.
Mostly in west but also in east.

Claytonia umbellata. Western

Clatonia perfoliata. Western

Claytonia ozarkensis. Ozark area.

Claytonia navadensis. Western.

Claytonia caroliniana. Eastern

Claytonia megarhiza var. megarhiza. Western

Come to think of it. I haven't sown any spring beauty seeds. There's a bunch of it that persisted in the lawn next door and it runs right up to mine. I suppose it's impossible to find seeds for the yellow one, with it being endangered and all. I did have a little clump of Claytonia virginica at the other garden but the Erigeron took it out. I do really believe that Claytonias are the true heralds of spring. Pasqueflowers, Hepaticas, and 'prairie smokes' are cool too. Prairie Smokes, for those back to nature smokers. Coming soon to a tall grass prairie near you lol. :)

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Claytonia siberica. Far northwest Alaska

Claytonia arenicola. Western

Claytonia gypsophilloides. Western........seems to be taking the succulant route

Claytonia saxosa Brandegee's Springbeauty Western

Claytonia washingtoniana. Western

Clatonia washingtoniana.

Claytonia multiscapa Western

Claytonia palustris. Marsh Claytonia. Western

Claytonia parviflora. Western

Either it has close company or some of the most bizarre leaf form variation.

A familiar spring sight. Just pretend there are Claytonias in there. Arkansas has it's very own springbeauty, Claytonia arkansana. There are no photos or descriptions of it on the internet. I suspect it's similar to virginica and caroliniana, but who knows? Maybe someone in Arkansas??? Overall, a regal genus of plants bearing flowers in 5 petaled configurations. 5 is a magic number! So is 3. I think these native Claytonias rival the moist and tempting blooms of every alien contender you might see in those 'exclusive' catalogs!!!

That age old problem. I want to rip out the lawn and go totally native, but my spouse, roommate, parents, grandparents, landlord won't let me. I say start the expansion immediately, little by little, and it's going to take time and work to get that person to come around, but little by little, as they see the eye candy and smell the sweet fragrances, and enjoy all the butterflies, bees, and life that your plantings draw in, they WILL come around, but it takes a LOT of patience. I think that everyone on Earth, way deep down inside, in their innermost core, wants to rip out their lawn lol ! The granite dust and turface sounds like a great idea for sowing little seeds like Lobelias, unfortunately I already sowed mine.........but I've got 5 pounds of mycorrhizal fungi. With the Lobelia and everlasting seeds it seems kind of hard using a funnel because you can't be sure the seed even dropped. I usually line the seeds on a sheet of stable paper and push them off the end into the place I want them to go. In the past I've just sprinkled Lobelia seeds into the germination trays because they were so small, and then I paid for my laziness later with a tangled mess of cardinal flower seedlings all growing on top of each other. When they're real little and in such large quantity like that I'm always tempted to oversow them, BUT they grow quite big actually! Starting Lobelias inside under lights wasn't a great idea. They grow so slow it's maddening. Winter sowing is the way to go with them. They need real sunlight.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Claytonia is one of the few pleasant native plants in my yard that I didnt plant myself, but they get eaten up by the lawn grass by mid spring. I have to kill the grass and warm season weeds after the claytonia goes dormant one of these years.

I overcrowd each cell of the tray with multiple seeds. I had 2 or 3 plants growing in one cell last year at times but one always becomes dominant and the other ones dwindle away or I pinch them out. I need redundancy in the event of poor germination rates

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Texasranger, I called NAS and they don't have D packs, but they do have seed packets even though they aren't listed. I ordered 3 packets and they say the germination rate on them is only 50%. Do you find that to be the case with your own seeds? One down, thanks!!! I think Claytonia sticks around in lawns longer than the other wildflowers when woodlands are cleared for housing.

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texasranger2

Jay, The first photo you posted is different than the seeds you ordered. That one is G. aestivalis var flavovirens. I've seen it offered as plants in catalogs.

I only had one plant come up the first year I planted it which was year before last and one last plant year. I planted a few seeds up front hoping to get maybe one.

Its dainty and subtle, not showy compared to the other gaillardias, especially Indian Blanket. It blooms late in summer and not that long compared to the common Indian Blanket. The plant is a bit straggly and thin, the flowers don't have a lot of punch and there aren't many blooms on the plant. I have some other variety that comes up each year which has tube-like petals but I have no idea where it came from or what it is. Its mostly red but quite showy on robust plants with lots of blooms.

Unless you are just into collecting specimens which is the impression I get, or want it for the sake of novelty, its not going to add much visually to your overall native landscaping scheme.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Thanks for preparring me for any letdowns. I wasn't counting on it to be the cornerstone of my planting, just one of several players. It will be great getting to know all these new plants and seeing how they do here. Once I see what does good and what doesn't I'll have a better idea where to go with it.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I sent out some seeds and got seeds for this beautiful Dregea chinensis in return, not bad! Asclepiadoideae!!! Share your diversity with everyone! Enrich North America!!!

Dregea chinensis.

Ceropegia seeds would be awesome. I may have to move to California lol. The ash heap. The Dregea chinensis ( a species new to me) is very fragrant and hoya like. Thank you Joy for sending some joy my way! I'm glad there are moths in California that pollinate these very difficult to pollinate vines. I keep hearing about 'the pod' so I'm thinking there is only one seedpod on the whole vine. That's why each seedpod has so many seeds. So now, I'm growing 3 vines in Asclepiadoideae. Tweedia caerulum, Cynanchum laeve, and Dregea chinensis, along with the 30 other species of native and tropical milkweeds. Normal, typical behavior for a milkweed nerd. The genus was named in honor of the Greek god Asclepius. Milkweeds have been used as medicine since before recorded history. When Lineaus was naming milkweeds, one of his samples that was being identified by someone else. There was confusion about the samples origin. That sample was named Asclepias syriaca. That explains why our most common native milkweed is named for a plant that comes from Syria. It would stand so bold and proud as the true Asclepias americana!

THE STAFF OF ASCLEPIUS

Asclepias americana (syriaca)

Reassigned by........Jay

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Gaillardia suavis, pincusion flower


Blackfoot Daisy, Melampodium leucanthum


TR, along with those Gaillardias I'm also growing 2 kinds of Gomphrena, Mexican hats, Gaillardia pulcellum, Gaillardia suavis, Gaillardia aristata, Helenium amarum, Phlox pillosa, Zinnias, Prairie sundrops, plains coriopsis, yellow coneflower,blackfoot daisy, Erigeron formosiss ,Erigeron pulchellum,coriopsis tripteris, Mentzelia lindleyii, Hieracium 2 species,. I think I left out a few but I was just showing you that there are enough other flowers to support the Gaillardia aestivalis. There's also all the grasses, Scutellarias, and plantains, ect that will be in the mix. It's like I've got all the mixed pieces of a picture puzzle. I just have to figure how to put it all together, which is something you've had much, much, much, experience with. There's also volunteers of 3 Rudbeckia species all over that I can add for more flowers. There is still a flutter of activity with seeds and sowing. Once this ends then the serious planning begins! Other plants that I might add to that planting are things like, purple milkweed, showy milkweed, Sctellaria ovata, Monarda citriodora, Rudbeckia salacifolius, Monarda bradburiana, Echinacea, ect. I need to add my own flavor to the planting so for it to not be a direct rip off of your garden Texasranger lol. Edit, throw cowpen daisies to that list. I just collected a bunch more seeds of it yesterday. And I forgot the Verbenas, hastata, stricta, bipinattifida, teniusecta, urticifolia, bonariensis, Stachytarpheta, red, purple, popcorn Cassia. Thanks again for the popcorn Rhonda! When we start talking about all the grasses, things should get interesting! I will have to wrap the G. aestivalis around my brain and figure out what to expect.

Androgopon ternarius, fiber optic bluestem, splitbeard bluestem


Ratibida columnaris, Mexican Hat


Muhlenbergia capillaris, pink muhly grass

Oenothera pilosella, prairie sundrops



Phlox pillosa, prairie phlox


Helenium amarum, yellow sneezeweed, bitter sneezeweed, yellowdicks



Space.......the final frontier. This empty space is dedicated to all the seeds I couldn't find. :(






Mentzelia lindleyi, Lindley's blazing star, golden bartonia, blazing star, evening star

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I just got 12 more plastic bins, a bag of Kellogs potting mix and a coco perlite mix. I will finish everything tomorrow except for any straggler seeds still coming. Anyone interested in 10 pink Tweedia seeds. I like the blue one. This is a close species to it.

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dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)

Jay-check your messages, Been trying to contact you!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Dandy, I've got it. You can delete it now!

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Just finished up another tray. 5 Amsonia illustris, 8 Aruncus dioicus, 7 Aster macrophyllus, 8 Cinna arundinacea, 3 Eupatorium fistulosum, 7 Muhlenbergia cappilaris.

That was the last of my pine bark mulch. Now I will just mix the bagged soil and perlite I have 50 50.

Starting to think about site prep. Im already planning to dig out whatever invasive shrubs and vines I can find sticking out of the ground in late winter. Im going to mow down whatever area I plan to plant, then spray it, maybe several times if necessary, then plant. I'd hate to use roundup but am thinking about an organic herbicide like ammonium nonanoate applied repeatedly. My neighbor has a weedy hedge between his house and the intersection, adjacent to my property. I want to rip it all out and plant something better. Its got an alien maple, white mulberry tree, japanese honey suckle, multifora rose, blackberries, yellow nut sedge, poison ivy, canada goldenrod, pokeweed, and garlic mustard. The city came and brush hogged half of it, but I might try to finish it off. I'll be up there swinging from branches with a chainsaw taking out those trees.

Is it a bad idea to use preemergents to control stilt grass and garlic mustard? Will I kill soil microbes and invertibrates and turn the frogs hermaphrodite? There is too much to pull by hand

Scientists say that without action, when the large old trees of the eastern deciduous forest finally die, they will be replaced by something unrecognizable, like this agglomeration of weeds.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Skip, you may want to reconsider using a chainsaw while dangling like a monkey. I don't think it's a safe idea!!! lol I might bury bombs and explode all my alien shrubs out of the ground. A fitting end. Or maybe not! Illinois and New Jersey have the same weeds. Do you get a lot of yellow Oxalis and Portulaca there too? I can't wait to go to town on my white mulberries with the new oscillating recipricating saw! I think some amphibians can change sex at will, for when there's a shortage of one sex. Fish too. Everything in the photo is recognisable. Mushrooms, including what looks like a couple Amanita muscaria, ferns and mosses. Scientists say a lot of things.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Peruvian shaman, curandero,healer, + + +


Medicinal, spiritual, sacred, healing plants.

Salvia divinorum The Shepherdess

Turbina corymbosa, Ololiuqui

Psychotria viridis, Chacrona

Lophophora williansii

Catha edulis

Mitragyna speciosa

Mimosa hostilis

Erythroxylum novogratense

Puedes andar sobre las llamas y no quemarte!

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I see portulaca/purslane from time to time but it doesnt stick around and spread like some places. Its transient. Yellow oxalis is all over the place but I dont really mind that one. Its weak and easy to pull or chop down. I have prostrate spurge and some kind of weedy veronica springing up in my front bed all the time. The veronica grows out of the joints in the retaining wall. I want to plant the Triodanis perfoliata basically right at the edge of the retaining wall and let it seed down into the cracks below. That will look cool if it work.

The stunning diversity of invasive and foreign plants on my property is what got me into native gardening.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I get a lot of little Veronica in between the patio bricks. There is a never ending supply of Portulaca. It must be in the soil bank for centuries. A lot of Oxalis too. They are low growing so they don't effect the plants around them too much, but if you are trying to grow small, slow growing seedlings like Amorpha canadense then Oxalis could smother those small seedlings. There's a kind of geum around here that's sort of ugly and boring. I'm trying to get rid of them by pulling before they seed. I get a lot of nightshade plants in the shady areas, do you get nightshades. I've heard a couple remarks about not everything germinating with winter sowing. This is really my first time, so I don't know what to expect, but I think I covered everything pretty good and talking to others at the same time they were doing it too helped me stay on track, so I'm thinking that overall I should get good germination on most everything I sowed. I'm hoping to finish the sowing within a week, and then start setting up the seed trays for the indoor lights, so I will be messing with plants all winter too. Looks like a bunch of rain is headed your way.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I havent identified any nightshades.

Not everything will germinate right away but dont dump the bins. I had a lot of seeds come up in june and later

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

When I was a kid my dad bought this cheap boat that was loaded with crap like a horder house. We cleaned it out and found a bag of M80s and quarter sticks of dynamite. So there was this old double tree stump in the yard, and he and my crazy uncle dug under the crotch of it which was rotting, and stuck a quarter stick in it and blew it to pieces. That was ridiculous.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Where did you get granite dust? I can't find it anywhere. I got to drill holes in bins again and I'm becoming a real pro at it lol.



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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I got it at Agway, any animal feed or farm supply place that sells chickens and stuff should have it. Its called Gran-I-Grit Grower Grit. If you are using it as a mulch for seed germination you can substitute with coarse sand, small lava rock pieces, pea gravel, perlite or anything like that.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Oh yeah, we have a place like that close by. It's where I get hay bails. Thanks for jogging my memory. This political stuff, wtf.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

94 bins. I had to buy the 12 yesterday at a different Menard's because I bought them out at the regular store lol. This is it, no more! Skip, its kind of mind boggling that you're growing so many species in such little space. I don't know how great the bins will work but I think I'll have way better results than I would have had with milkjugs.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Thats a lot of bins, what size is the footprint of the bin again? Do you drill holes in the top too?

I like the trays, they are 1.39sq ft and hold 38 or 50 plugs, and I dont have to try to prick the seedlings out before they get too big. I left coreopsis, rudbeckia laciniata and agastaches in the plug tray the whole year and they were stunted but otherwise healthy. I like that the trays can hold the plants a day or two without water. I could probably get really lazy and put them on a capillary mat next year.

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dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)

Jay-its name is Amorpha canescens, FYI.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

The bins are 10"×12". About twice the inside space of a milkjug. I could have gotten something bigger but this size is more managable. A lot of holes in the tops and drzinage holes on the bottoms.


It looks like enough holes to me. Coco peat retains water better than regular peat. I've drilled a whole lot of holes!

height is about 6". Tall enough for early developement without restriction. I will have to get them out before they get root bound and tangled. I've ordered a lot of plants that came badly rootbound. Then, places like Missouri Wildflowers send their plants in tall pots with loose free roots. Those are the kind of nursery people I like buying from! I think my bins will do the job, looking at it from a milkjug point of view. Or did I just drill 40.000 holes for nothing?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Dandy I looked the name up right after. There are so many botanical names in my head. Thing with me is, if I don't use the latin name on a regular basis I forget it. Then there's the mispelling! I can go months and years misspelling a species name. And I'm asking why did they make these names so confusing, is it perfoliata,perfoliatum??? I had to delete my autocorrect because of latin names, and then learn how to spell all over again.

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dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)

Jay-so sorry to do that to you. I can be such a nerd some times!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Dandy, how tall does your Cacallia get? I read they can reach 9'. Did you start your Liatris from seed, and if so, how many years before blooming?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Well I now have bins to use for any new seeds coming in, so when they get here I can just pop them in and set outside. I'm sowing the last of the seeds I have now tomorrow.

Asclepias viridis

Asclepias viridiflora

Papaver somniferum

.Aruncus dioicus

Nasella tenuifolia

Muhlenbergia cappilaris

Commelina dianthifolia

Mentzelia lindleyi

Perilla fructens

Senna obtusifolia

Clump grass, Division st.

I think that's it. There may be more great finds while the ws window is still open so I'm ready for more seeds, who knows I still may find some rare ones. I've seen other winter sowing setups that I think are way better, but I'd already invested too much in the bins to trash that idea. Had I known of better methods earlier I would have went with something better, but for a long time I just assumed that everybody used milkjugs so I thought I was doing better with the bins.



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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Just filled a tray of 38 with Antennaria plantiginfolia, 9 of the 3.5" pots with May Apple Podophyllum peltatum, 9 3.5" pots with more Asclepias variegata, and a milk jug with Veiny pea Lathyrus venosus. I tried Veiny pea last year but the one seedling that sprouted didnt survive, I had another seed packet left over from then. The May Apple has been in the fridge since last year as well. I'm up to 10 50-plug trays, 4 38-plug trays, 18 3.5" pots and 3 milk jugs. I still have a bunch of species to throw on trays that dont need cold stratification. Im getting this tool for planting plugs I hope the thing works. Its basically a tapered pipe with foot steps, you jam it in the ground and it pulls out a soil core, then you flip the tool over and the core falls out of what was the top of the tube.

Jay you have 78.33sq ft of containers out, thats like a 20'x4' raised bed. Your way with the bins has its own advantages, to each his own. The bins will collect dew and sweat more than a cold frame. I think your seeds and seedlings are more protected too. Slugs could rip through my bed unobstructed no problem for example. If my cover rips Im in trouble too, I just ordered some insect netting and additional clamps to double up under the row cover fabric to reinforce it some.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I think I ordered more Asclepias perennis seeds and they came from the same guy who is selling the variegata. He must have a bunch of plants. Kind of getting me thinking about selling seeds of the rare ones. I ordered Senna obtusifolia seeds online and they were taking forever, so somebody on the butterfly forum sent me some. The ones that I ordered finally came in. Now I have about 1000 Senna seeds. I think I'm going to scatter some down the street at the prairie. There seems to be a shortage of native legumes there, but a whole lot of invasive crownvetch that migrated from the highway. The weird thing was the size of the seeds. The ones from China were a lot smaller. Maybe I should start growing Chinese natives and sell them back to them? There is no label with the botanical name, nothing except Chinese writing. I think all these plants will take up a lot more space than a 20×4 raised bed unless they were stem to stem. As seedlings maybe, but not mature size. I may spray herbicide on the front lawn. The one wildone guy who has a native nursery had part of his lawn sprayed when I went to pick up my plants last year. He also had a beautiful clump of purple prairie clover. He operates his nursery out of his house. There isn't a lot of space in the front yard. My driveway is a horseshoe so the hell strip is an oval with one straight side. It would be easy to plant and it gets the most sun. A backhoe would still help a lot. There's all this buried landscape fabric that's going to be strenuous getting out. I've had a couple Antennaria plants in the past. I remember there being Painted Lady caterpillars on one of them. I thought I lost the last one, but then spotted it again. Very cool plants. I've grown sweet peas before. They're hard to get going and you need to start them in cooler temps. I did get one plant to flower. There's a wild pink bean at the old garden. I brought it from the woods and now it's everywhere. I guess you have to stake the row cover down so it doesn't blow away with all your seeds?

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dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)

Jay-the Cacallia atriplicipholia gets about 6' tall. Not weedy compared to C suavalens(?) that is on watch for me now.

The Liatris blooms in 2nd or 3rd year. Will get 6' tall and wants to flop over. I tried pruning one year and that killed the blooms. But it's such a killer for the Monarchs, I've had a dozen hanging onto one plant during migration.

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dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)

Alert: I'm looking for seeds of Senecio aureus, aka Pakera aurea. I found a plant growing in a ditch about ten years ago and transplanted into my garden. It did well the next year with bright yellow flowers. Local butterflies loved it. But it disappeared the next year and I haven't found seed since then. If anyone has some for trade,please let me know.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I was just watching a video with Packera on it. I had some appear by the house and they ID'd it as another Packera species. I never collected seeds of it. There's a butterfly that uses them for host plants.

Spring wildflower videos!

https://youtu.be/dBxGWYqIGW0

Spring wildflowers!
https://youtu.be/yjnRPuQpmb8

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Toadshade nursery has Packera aurea seed packets for $4.00. Prairie Moon has a closely related Packera that's the same height and it likes dryer conditions than P. aurea. I scattered some seeds for P. aurea a few years ago but they never germinated. I think the vollunteer Packera I had was P. glabella. Most places just offer plants of the aurea, not seeds. I know I'll have some vollunteers to use in the spring, and I remember where they were.

One man in India planted an entire forest! Nature is God!

https://youtu.be/U1jtd3MrFQM

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dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)

Thanks for the posts. I do have a smallish type Packera growing in my yard too but the blooms are just blah. The P aurea has very nice large blooms. Also, I require the right zonal type for my geography. Made that mistake once with Button Bush, got southern seed and could never get the buds from freezing off up here

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Packera aurea.
Dandy, did you ever look around for any seedlings from your plant, or was the surrounding area filled with other plants that can hinder germination?

Packera glabella.

Packera plattensis.

Bonap lists 57 species of native Packera species.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Dandy, I've never looked for local ecotypes. Who sells them? Prairie Moon seeds are probably local for you. They are in Minnasota. Were your fire pinks local ecotypes? Etsy has 50 Helianthus salicifolius seeds for $6.95. That's a way better deal than I got!

Helianthus salicifolius. crazy beautiful

Silene virginica. Fire Pink

Asclepias ovalifolia. Oval leaved milkweed.

Asclepias viridiflora. Short green milkweed.

Lespedeza violacea. Wand bush clover.

Ceanothus americanus. New Jersey Tea.

Trillium pusillum var. taxanum.

Texas Trillium.

??? The plant with a thousand eyes. From the dark side of Asclepiadoideae. Nested in Ceropegia. Mind boggling, isn't it? It's native somewhere!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, can you post a pic of that new plug tool you're getting? It sounds intersting. I think you will need something like that with all the plants you're growing. There is a kind of knife some are using for gardening. I forget the name, but Mara and Texasranger swear by it. They might carry theirs in holsters with their other gardening tools, plyers, cable cutters,chainsaws,dynamite, lolol. Those cacti are a bear! lol

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

you're probably thinking of a hori hori knife Jay. This is the plug tool, the rings on the bottom are removable for different depth plugs and bulb

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Where did you get it, and how much? How do you feel about hori hori knives? I'm done sowing everything, but I still have more seeds coming in. How many Helianthus salicifolius seeds did you sow? The tool looks like a larger scale of a dadelion tool I have.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Its the ProPlugger for about $40 on Amazon, I havent used it yet but someone is getting it for me for a christmas secret santa thing. I never used a hori hori knife and I have no experience with them. I have some nice Wilcox 9" and 14" trowels that I would recommend though. The hori hori looks like it would be useful for the same role, and a flat blade has its pros.

I only did 3 Helianthus salicifolius plugs. I looked at pictures of it, and it looks nice in some places, but I see it can get ratty and floppy in other pictures. It just looks like a dry soil full intense sun kind of plant, which I dont have, but 3 plants should be enough to give it a try.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, that's all you had was 3 seeds? I ordered 50 more. It's from the same place, but more seeds and cheaper this time.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

No I have leftover seeds and I planted a few seeds in each of 3 cells, with the intention of keeping 3 plants.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Yeah buddy, got the trays I sowed this week outside. The row cover already ripped, I didnt get a long enough piece when I made the hoop house, it should have been draped looser on there but I had to stretch it lengthwise to get it to fit. I have insect netting on the way to place under the row cover and patch it up.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It looks awesome Skip! Seriously! My new toy.......

Your setup looks like something at a native nursery.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Texasranger, if the Gaillardia seeds aren't var. flavovirens then they must be var. aestivalis. They wouldn't be selling Winkler's white. They bred the grape cultivar from the winkleri. I've seen pictures of var. aestivalis with yellow petals. They look similar to flavovirens, but the petals are more relaxed. It's a specimen until I see how it does here.

Gaillardia aestivalis var. winkleri

Gaillardia aestivalis var. flavovirens

Gaillardia aestivalis var. aestivalis.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Callirhoe bushii

Senna obtusifolium

Boehchera cylindrica

Antennaria neglecta

Anemone virginiana

Plantago virginica

Hieracium maculatum. not venosum, but close.

Dalea villosa

Solidago odora

Solidago caesia

https://youtu.be/Lk9fpESv3Iw

https://youtu.be/quOty4Rn8dI

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Hey Skip, I was looking at that soil plug on amazon and I couldn't find any measurements for it. The pictures look like it removes a nice sized clump. It says it's amazons choice for bulb planting.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Centaurea americana

Sium sauve

Commelina dianthifolia

Erigeron formosissimus

Ratibida pinnata

https://youtu.be/F0-xBg3RAFU

https://youtu.be/zFJwO86FIqY


https://youtu.be/6hgVihWjK2c

https://youtu.be/xK9I3ncCrSg


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

What can I say. Wired and bored! Just one bin today, seeded with Gaillardia aestivalis var. aestivalis, real thick due to poor germination. I'm hoping to get some perennial Gaillardia phenotypes of aristata and aestivalis that will do well in my area. I'm looking forward to the new jungle. A jungle filled with new plants.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I like poppies. I grow a few different ones to keep my poppy jones at bay! (?) From the order Ranunculales. Appearing at the late cretaceous.

Stylophorum diphyllum

Eschscholzia californica

Papaver somniferum

Aregemone albiflora

Papaver rhoeas


I really like my seed sowing soil mixture. I think it's better than that 5-1-1 mix by what's his name? Judging from appearances it's obvious I should have 'specimen collector' tatooed in my forehead lol! My site prep might just be clearing the space for each plant as I go. Thugging out the thugs. All kinds of weapons for their dispatchment at my disposal! Seeing pictures of how others have transformed their yards using winter sowed plants makes me very hopeful!

https://mjbizdaily.com/farm-bill-agreement-allows-nationwide-hemp-cultivation-for-any-use-including-cbd/


https://youtu.be/54vD_cPCQM8

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Yes Jay watching all the new plants is going to be fun. Im planning to take a "vacation" or two next year for site prep, planting, and fixing crap around the house.

I dont know the overall length of that plugger tool but it makes a 2" diameter hole and is adjustable between 2", 4", and 6" deep by removing the rings on the bottom. It says push it in, twist, pull, and flip. Im a sucker for tools and gadgets.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Beckmannia syzigachne, American slough grass.


These are some of the grasses that will be mixed into the new plantings.

Sporobolis heterolepis, prairie dropseed.

Bouteloua gracilis, blue grama grass.

Andropogon gerardii, big bluestem.

Dichanthelium oligosanthes, Scribner's panic grass.

Chasmanthium latifolium, river oats.

Muhlenbergia capillaris, pink muhly grass.

Nasella tenuissima, Mexican feather grass. An honorable mention to Buchloe, buffalo grass which I couldn't fit in.

Egrostis spectabilis, purple love grass.

Schizachyrium scoparium, little blue stem.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Elymus villosa, silky wild rye. It's on my wish list.

These are the rest of the grasses and sedges that are available to work with. Some are old, and some are new.

Koeleria macrantha, June grass.

Carex pensylvanica. Pennsylvania sedge.

Carex sprengelii.

Carex rosea

Buchloe, buffalo grass.

Elymus canadensis, Canada wild rye.

bottlebrush grass.

Andropogon ternarius, splitbeard bluestem. I'm ordering them from SRG in the spring. Party of one! The plants with the smallest seeds in the world are certain tropical species of orchids. The seeds float like smoke and attach to trees where they germinate. Not something that I would enjoy winter sowing. :) I want to join the Illinois Native Plant Society, but you have to do it through facebook.

https://youtu.be/0_RnlOWmZD4


https://youtu.be/rLm7O2hIYIo

https://youtu.be/LUAOwceIzRM

https://youtu.be/R8GCc8OhTz8

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

This is the area I need to replace with better plants. This second picture is taken from near the back of the shed in the first picture.




All weeds. I was removing mile a minute vine all year too.

Im reading an article by Cornell University on using 6mil black plastic to clear planting areas. https://smallfarms.cornell.edu/2018/04/06/take-me-out-to-a-tarped-field-needs-sidebar/

The only thing I dont like is that water ponds on top of the liner, which is like mosquito heaven right? Will that damage the trees near the tarp too? I am wondering if heavy duty landscape fabric or geotextile fabric weighed down with sandbags and logs and stuff would block enough light to kill seedlings and emerging perennials, without having ponding water. Then I would remove the fabric entirely before planting.

I am thinking about removing the black locust trees and pruning the osage orange, planting better trees and let them get rooted in a few years then prune more or thin or remove the Osage orange.

These are some replacement plants:

Cinna arundinacea Wood Reed grass

Ageratina altissima White snakeroot

Verbesina alternifolia Wingstem

Verbesina virginica Frostweed

Smallanthus uvedalius Bears foot

I think these plants can compete if I continuously remove other weeds.

https://youtu.be/HwPe5jVYKe4

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Even with the weeds it looks scenic. I don't have any areas here that are that nice to work with. I like the reed grass. I wanted to grow frostweed but never got around to it or the didn't germinate. The bearsfoot is a cool looking plant. I've never tried killing off large patches of ground. At least you don't have a bunch of 30 yo nasty landscape fabric burried everywhere. Skip, how long and wide is that wood frame again? I'm thinking around 18 feet long. There's a big old blue spruce tree in the back. It has weeds and mulberries growing underneath it. I want to prune the lower branches so I can get in there and plant some shade plants and poke milkweeds. Those areas are perfect for planting I can't wait to see what you do with it. I like the music! Thanks. I have never heard you mention ferns. Were you thinking of adding any?

https://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/making-biochar-improve-soil-zmaz09fmzraw


Terra preta

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

That June Grass you posted looks cool. There is a bunch of random crap buried everywhere- lots of broken glass and metal pieces like an old barn or shed was knocked down. Im going to have glove up and suit up to dig with all the poison ivy too.

My wood frame is 12'x4'.

Im not sure I could get away with half burning a bunch of stuff in my backyard. There's space but the neighbors are not THAT far away.


I planted bareroot ferns one year but didnt do much site prep and planted them too late in the season and the summer heat and weeds killed them. I will try again at some point when the ground is cleared more.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Ferns are hard to start. They have to be kept moist for a long time. I've lost a lot of nice ones over the years. I don't put as much priority on them as with the other plants. The terra preta is just an idea that's cool and a good way to get rid of falling branches. I don't know if I'll get around to doing it. The seeds are all sown except for a few still not here. I have this good feeling thinking about all the plants that are sitting outside in seed form, and all the life they are going to bring to my yard when I plant them. I couldn't find any coneflower seeds down the road, so I ordered 100 Ratibida pinatta seeds. Got to have it if you're doing prairie. Your yard looks nice with the weeds, well I mean you have some nice areas to work with. Not as many obsticals in the way like there is here.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

You are doing the prairie in the front right? Got any pics of the back full of brush you want to reform? I spent a lot of time with loppers, an old limb saw, shovel, and mattock removing burning bush volunteers, barberry, multiflora rose, norway maple, tree of heaven, large poison ivy vines, small tree stumps, trash, bricks, and anything big that could damage my mower. Then I mowed the path to be able to keep it somewhat weeded, otherwise it gets too dense to work in. If you get a few dry snow free days in early spring, its the best time to get out there with your tools and start removing weedy trees and shrubs. A sawzall would have made a faster time of it.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I want to remove 3 burning bushes in the back. There's brush on the side of the shed too. A big wild grape, buckthorn, hackberry, mulberry, poison ivy. There's a mulberry stump I want to remove also. The front gets sunnier the closer you get to the street. The hell strip isn't big. A lot of semis go up and down the road to warehouses. I have a light pole in the hell strip so the trucks should steer clear. I'll try to take more pictures.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Time to start growing Calotropis. Winter gardening.

And in February, Tweedia caerulea, Gomphocarpus physocarpus, Gomphocarpus cancellatus,Gomphocarpus fruticosa, Asclepius curassavica, Dregea chinensis, popcorn Cassia.

Holostemma ada-kodien, India.

Periglossum mackenii, South Africa.

Orbeanthus conjunctus, South Africa.

Asclepias cryptoceras, western U.S.

Asclepias asperula, North America. More cool 'specimens' for my collection, whenever I build my conservatory lol! The Calotropis seeds are soaking. I'm using my coco germinating mix. I'll be starting them under a germinating light here and then I'll move them to more powerful lights. 1st this single light, then to a T5 and then 600 watt metal halide. The Calotropis come from tropical Asia and Africa.

Still room for more. The milkweeds are all together on the left because they're 'special'. 30 milkweed species, 127 other species in bins. More to come! I think I've saved work on the watering side of things. The bins hold moisture very well. I don't think I'll have to water before they start sprouting, and I know from experience letting germinating trays dry out isn't good.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Driveway, hell strip, birm accross the street.

The house taken from birm.

Down the road. It's a hill. A patch of trees and scrub after the neighbor on the west. They seem very protective of that patch even though it isn't theirs. Makes me wonder?

The neighbor's house. I get maybe 6 hours of full sun in the front. The 4 oaks in the yard on the east side block the sun in the morning, and this silver maple in the picture blocks the sun in late afternoon.

From the top of the birm looking north. There's a field of weeds at the bottom.

Looking up the road due east.

The west side. A large crabapple in the front and a line of large, old Japanese yews.

I walked over into the late neighbor's yard and was shocked to find huge areas of space with mowed grass. No plantings of any kind, and he was the head of agriculture at the junior college. (?) It's hard to tell in the picture, but to the south of my house is a huge field. It doesn't look huge in the picture. Then there's a tree line, and on the other side of the trees is the Illinois-Michigan canal, and the prairie. There's a train track back there too. I'd love to plant that field with all natives, but I'd need lots of help. There's a lot to explore around here.

The back of my house from the neighbor's yard. This is a squirell haven with all the oaks.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


The back of my house from the neighbor's yard. The pen where he kept the dogs. The shed.

I want to make a small garden here in front of the sunroom. There's 2 burning bushes here that I need to 'take out'!

The old blue spruce. I want to cut the lower branches so I can shade garden underneath.

The east side of the house. It's where the ferns are. The huge cottonwood, a row of old lilacs and a hedge that never grows because of no sun. I don't know what the guy who planted all this stuff was thinking?

The back, the patio, my bins. There are 2 gardens. One on each side of the green sprinkling can. It's where I'll plant things that don't need 8 hours of fulk sun and plants that need moisture since it's right by the hose.

The west side. An ash tree that I wish wasn't there, the Japanese yews. There's a lot of gravel and no doubt landscape fabric around the yews making planting difficult. A few Asclepias syriacas have volunteered in there. I'd like to add some poke and oval leaved milkweeds in there too with other natives.

The shady raised bed area where the wild geraniums, Virginia bluebells, Solomon's seal and Celendine poppies grow. They all get most of their sun before the trees leaf out. I want to cut down all the small trees to get more sun in there. I'd be able to make this area nice if I only had the high shade from the oaks without the mulberry, buckthorn shade.

The neighbor's back yard. They don't weed or anything. There's an old above ground swimming pool growing reeds, but you can't see it.

This huge oak branch is my neighbor's, but all of it here is hanging over my front lawn. I'm going to ask if I can prune it off. I can't have this, totally ridiculous!

The ugly old landscape fabric looks even more disgusting in winter. Maxed out on photos again!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


The front. I have this nasty red barberry that needs to go and this thing sticking up, I'll have to hide that. There's that nasty silver maple again. There aren't many silver maple volunteers. The chipmunks eat the seeds.

These 2 privets have to go. They seem to have an incredible will to survive. I don't care! Hopefully the pics answered questions! I think a lot of the prairies around here need a good burning. I'm trying to restrain myself lol. I will try to get the most out of the 6 hours of sun I get in the front. The pots positioned at the south end of the patio get a decent amount of sunlight. For the tropical big time sun lovers I'll use my other full sun garden. Not looking to add much in the way of shrubs other than buttonbush, Calycanthus and Triosteum. I'm planning another part sun garden on the west side of the shed moving out. It could all be made to blend in with the area on the east side of the shed once the weed trees are delt with and new plants are added. The most physically hard thing will be removing the shrubs. I'm not sure how I'm going to do that. There isn't a lot of brush around here, but my other garden is nothing but brush, starting with the 10' lambs quaters trees and working down from there lol. Morning glory vines for days! If you notice the kitchen sink lying on the driveway it's because I didn't have enough seeds so I decided to winter sow the kitchen sink.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

A sawzall or limb saw will annihilate those little trees. Then either paint glyphosate on the cut trunk or put a flower pot upside down covering the whole stump and weigh it down with a brick or something. Or use a stump grinder. You have plenty of nice space to work with though, I could see an open woodland or oak savanna going on. Your bins look nice and organized too. It all looks more possible in perspective.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I could do an oak savanna on the whole south side. I need to get rid of the ash heap. I'd just rake them into the grass, but lighter fluid was used so I think the ashes are toxic. The pictures don't give depth. The field next to me is huge, but you can't tell from the pic. My hell strip would be easy to do. There would just be more pressure to keep it looking good and that would be easy too. If the neighbor limbed up his oak trees in the front, that would help a lot too. I still can't believe the vast expanse of sunny lawn on the neighbor's south side where I thought it was just the field. It's south of all the oak trees so it gets sun. I should take another pic of the main area I want to plant in front. There are the 2 horizontal yews and the serviceberry next to the house in the front. They're old and established so I'm leaving them. There's too much shade on the east side to grow anything other than ferns and spring wildflowers. The lilacs haven't been pruned in years, but it wouldn't matter. It's so shady there they wouldn't bloom anyway. Need music for later. I'm planting native sedums around the edges of the patio. There's some native and non native sedums started in there already. The roomate thinks the weedy trees in the shady raised bed area are a good screen, but I think I can cut the trees down and plant some taller plants towards the back that will be a better looking screen. The Calotropis seeds have to soak for 10 hours, then they have to be kept moist for 3 days until roots start showing. The seeds aren't really very big considering it's the giant milkweed tree. The seeds of the much smaller Asclepias perennis and antenaria are huge in comparison. I will be able to show real living plants in real time during winter. If that doesn't motivate me........... 10 C. gigantea seeds and 15 C. procera. I'm sowing them all to be on the safe side, because you never know, 1st time and all. The hedgehunter hori hori knife is coming tomorrow. Think I'll test it on the landscape fabric. I have a chainsaw from when I chopped down the empress tree. That would work too. I saw a picture in one of the books. It was a clump of purple milkweed with sedges growing around it. It looked really nice. I think I'm going to do that with the milkweeds. Skip, are you going to plant a lot of the flowers in drifts within the main plants?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Calycanthus floridus

Coriopsis tripteris

Aralia racemosa

Amsonia hubrichtii

Calycanthus floridus

Coriopsis tripteris

Amsonia hubrichtii

Aralia racemosa

Amsonia hubrichtii, autumn colors

New seeds, not listed.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Still room for more!

Lilium michiganense-Michigan lilly

Liatris ligulistyllis

Eupatorium maculatum, Joe Pye weed

Silene virginica- fire pink

Chelone lyonii- pink turtlehead

Arnoglossum atriplicifolium- pale Indian plantain

New seeds, not listed.

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dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)

I wish mine always looked as good as that!

New pi:

Beware: Death Camas !

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I have been following this thread with interest and made a bunch of notes. You are all so ambitious. Jay, I had dozens of Frostweed seedlings popping up last Spring. If this happens again next year, I would be happy to mail you some. Is the first picture Carolina Allspice? I love mine, but it looks like it will have to be in a cage forever. The deer love it even more than me. Looks like Google Earth updated our neighborhood sometimes early Summer. My attempt to grow a forest in the back looks pitiful from above. The trees just look like little freckles in the grass for now.

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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

I have all those you listed most recently Jay, except the Calycanthus, which has never appealed to me.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I think the Calycanthus was the only picture of a plant I posted that I don't have seeds for. They are pricy. I have one Camassia scilloides bulb, but its not the death Camus. Barron, why don't you like Calycanthus? Not enough of a hot red for you? I like the raspberry color. The shrub wouldn't look right with hot red flowers. Just go buy a Jatropha! Hi Iris, you and all your critters! There's still lots of host plant seeds left over if you want any. Dandy, I thought all your plants looked like that all the time. Have you ever tried growing any of those wild orchids you see all the time up there? More bins to winter sow tomorrow.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Thank you for the offer, Jay! I am still pondering if I want to expand a flower bed or two or start a new one. Having a hard time figuring it out, suggestions would be appreciated. I have been looking at the Google Earth pictures to see what would make sense.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris,I have a book on gardening with native wildflowers in South Carolina by Jim Wilson. I'll take a look and see what plants are good to use there.

How to bust a planting hole in hard caliche.

https://youtu.be/WDuBkyvB9FU

Recommend spear chucker caliche rod. ->

The video would be funnier if it was a certain someone I know doing it in neck deep caliche country. You know I'd help and put in my 110 percent lol. I don't think she'd use bagged ammenments. She's way too bright and resourceful for that!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Well, where do you think I should put new plants?

should I combine the 2 new flower beds in front (yellow)? Widen the one along the fence so it flows into the one in front of the house (red)? Or just make the new flower bed in the backyard bigger (blue)?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I would connect the 2 small gardens in yellow and make it bigger. It looks like it gets a decent ammount of sun. The area in the blue circle looks shadier. I can't tell where the fence is.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Thanks, Jay! That confirms it. All the areas still get a lot of sun. The blue area Flower bed just has some morning shade. Well, part of it.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Morning shade is good for a lot of plants too. Do you have any ideas on what plants to use? Any butterflies in particular that you want to attract? They all seem to find your yard anyway lol.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

What I would really need are nectar plants flowering very early in Spring and something flowing just about now. The only thing still hanging on after 20 degrees is my climbing aster. And some dandelions. We had a few days reaching almost 60 degrees now. So I had a couple of honey bees and hoverflies looking around for something to eat. Even some moth and a little butterfly I didn’t see close enough. Makes me sad if there isn’t anything.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I have a lot of those. Lets work on it tomorrow. There hasn't been anything still blooming up here for a while now. You're pretty ambitious too. Would your husband be game for a bog garden lol ? You're in South Carolina, you can grow venus flytraps, how cool is that!?!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

It’s not visible in the pictures, but under the trees on the left of the blue circled flower bed is actually a pond. Well, two of the pre fabricated plastic ponds running into one out of pond liner. We were going to put new rocks around the bigger one. Once we get to it there is no reason to lower the edge a bit for a bog, right?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, here is a list of just pollinator plants. Agastache foeniculum- anise hyssup

Eurybia divaricata- white wood Aster

Circium discolor- pasture thistle

Symphyotrichum novae- angliae

Solidago rigida- stiff goldenrod

Cirsium altissimum- tall thistle

Symohyotrichum laeve- pale blue Aster

Dalea purpurea- purple prairie clover

Dalea foliosa- leafy prairie clover

Dalea villosa- silky prairie clover

Ipomopsis rubra- standing cypress

Elephantopus carolinianum- Carolina elephants foot.

Verbena stricta- hoary vervain

Verbena hastata- tall blue vervain

Coriopsis tinctora- plains Coriopsis

Solidago odorata- licorice scented goldenrod

Solidago caesia- blue stemmed goldenrod

Vernonia fasciculata- smooth ironweed

Ratibida pinnata- yellow prairie coneflower

Monarda bradburiana- Bradbury's Monarda

Monarda punctata- spotted bee balm

Helianthus salicifolius- willow leaved sunflower

Gaillardia aristata- perennial blanketflower

Gaillardia aestivalis var. aestivalis

Centaurea americana- American basketflower

Asclepias tuberosa- butterfly weed

Asckepias sullivantii- prairie milkweed

Asclepias curassavica- silky yellow

Asclepias syriaca- common milkweed

Heliopsis helianthoides- false sunflower

Asclepias incarnata- swamp milkweed

Tweedia- pink, not caerulea

Cynanchum laeve- honeyvine

Verbesina encelioides- cow pen daisy.

These are all pollinator plants. I'm growing the native thistles because the flowers attract the Swallowtails and Monarchs, and the Lady cats eat the leaves. The Asters and goldenrods are for fall migration. The big basketflowers draw lots if butterflies too. The honeyvine is both a great nectar and host plant. The Tweedia will attract pollinators but the Monarch cats don't like it. All milkweeds have lots of nectar and they keep making it constantly. The cowpen daisies attract lots of butterflies and are also host plants for Border Patches and other butterfly species.

Bordered Patch Butterfly, Chlosyne lacinia

Bordered Patch cat

Bordered Patch crysalis

Verbesina encelioides- cowpen daisy.

Bronze Copper Butterfly, Lycaena hyllus

Grey Copper Butterfly, Lycaena dione

Our native male Checkered White Butterfly, Pontia protodice

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Obviously really old, bad pictures. A lot more shade by now, but the frogs and some turtles love it. My husband is really careful with the Spring cleaning now since he picked up a good sized snapping turtle.


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Thank you so much! Will start my research on these. I have some of them, will look up the ones that don’t sound familiar.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, these are the host plants.

Black Swallowtails, Papilio polyxenes

Thaspium trifoliatum- meadow parsnip

Polytaenia nuttallii- prairie parsley

Osmorhisa claytonii- sweet cicely

Heracleum maximum- giant cow parsnip

Taenidia integgerima- yellow pimpernel

Cryptotaenia canadensis- honewort

Buckeyes, Junonia coenia

Plantago virginica- southern plantain

Plantago rhodosperma- redseed plantain

Verbena hastata- tall blue vervain

Verbena stricta- hoary vervain

Red Admirals, Vanessa atalanta

Boehmeria cylindrica- smallspike false nettle

Monarchs, Danaus plexippus

Cynanchum laeve- honeyvine

Asclepias syriaca- common milkweed

Asclepias tuberosa- butterfly weed

Asclepias incarnata- swamp milkweed

Asckepias curassavica- silky yellow

American Lady, Vanessa virginiensis

Painted Lady, Vanessa cardui


Painted Ladies and American Ladies

Antennaria neglecta- prairie pussy toes

Cirsium discolor- pasture thistle

Cirsium altissimum- tall thistle

Gnaphalium obtusifolium- sweet everlasting

Anaphalis margaritacea- pearly everlasting

Clouded Sulphur, Colias philodice

Sulphurs, White butterflies

Boehchera canadensis- sicklepod ( brassica)

Anthyllis vuneraria- kidney vetch

Karner Blue Butterfly, Plebejus melissa samuelis,(endangered) Lupinus perennis- wild blue Lupin

Purplish Copper Butterfly, Lycaena helloides

Coppers, grey, bronze, and purplish. 2 species of moths.

Rumex altissimus

Rumex altissimus. Not ornamental but it's a host plant to 3 species of Coppers and 2 moth species. Thats why I'm growing it. For those little metalic jewels!

Many Skippers feed on grasses.

Big Bluestem- Andropogon gerardii

Little Bluestem Schizachyrium scoparium

https://www.dailypress.com/features/family/home-garden/dp-fea-diggin-1005-20141004-story.html

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, wow, thats a really nice pond. I love the water lillies. You have a very wonderful homestead there. And all those different trees, awesome! I will have to post a pic of my yard on google earth. I found it once before. Do you have any Sassafrass or tulip trees? I love snapping turtles, especially the baby ones!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

AGPG The avian gift package gang!

This is how it starts, not really, it's a Viceroy caterpillar disguised as............

They just show up uninvited.

Always beneath where birds perch.

Causing rashes and blisters.

They sneak into shady areas unnoticed for a time.

I don't have 100.000 of them but these things are very bad. How many do you have left Dandy. Or did you totally destroy them?

The worst for last! Another notch on my oscillating reciprocating saw! Those birds are some good planters. The avian gift package gang.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Jay what is that plant with the berries you posted and what is the last plant in that comment? Im interplanting everything/planting everything in drifts except for the verbesinas since they want to grow as a monocolony anyway.


Iris, I like your idea to join the beds circled in yellow too. Is it currently planted like a garden with space and mulch between plants, or is it more of a meadow?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I labeled the plants. The one with the berries is Aralia racemosa. I like it's look and it would be a good transition to a tree line. The orange plant is Amsonia hubrichtii in it's fall colors.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Skip, these flowerbeds were just in their second year, so you can still see some mulch. The plants have been growing nicely though, so hopefully it will look more natural by next summer.

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dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)

The Aralia racemosa is a wonderful woodsy/shade plant. Deciduous with berries. 3' tall it can even be used as a hedge. Very easy to start from seed in fall. So far I haven't ever seen volunteers either.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I don't think the fruit taste good but they grow another species that's edible, A. cordata. Dandy, do you have the yellow coneflowers, Ratibida pinnata?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

You are all so organized with your seeds and plants. Look what I found in my junk drawer today. Now why didn’t I plant them? Just forgot? Waiting for Winter? Did someone warn me not to because they are terrible?


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

The name yellow ironweed threw me off, and then I saw Verbesina, and that was strange. I've always known that plant as wingstem and that's what everybody calls it up here. Ironweeds are usually AFAIK plants in the genus Vernonia, not Verbesina. Iris, I'm not organised enough. I somehow lost a few seed packets. I don't know how, but I did. I had to reorder. As far as the sowing goe s I've sowed 170 species with only 1 or 2 screw ups. And they were minor.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It does say wingstem on the packet. Where did it come from? I don't see a name. Seeds of sunflower family plants can stay viable for a long time. Have you ever scattered those wildflower mixes?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

They were from Etsy. Must have been from last year. I might just put some of the seeds in pots next week. Long rhizomes sounds scary though. Thinking of my swamp sunflowers and common milkweed.

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dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)

Jay-I don't have the Ratibida any more I did about 10 years ago but I think they were short lived plants. Maybe meant to flower and then reseed themselves.

I have moved on from the property with the 100,000 Buckhorn and have now taken on the immense problem at the local Arboretum in my area. Fortunately being this far north, the Buckthorn hasn't exploded as much as it did farther south where I lived before.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I've never been crazy about wingstem. I've come accross it many times in the wild while trudging through tall grasses. It never stood out as strikingly beautiful. If the petals wrapped all the way around the disc it might be different. The frostweed usually grows further south. The main reason I wanted to grow it was for the frost. I try to collect the prettier fall blooming plants like Asters, goldenrods, elephants foot. Cowpen daisies are Verbesinas that I like a lot. There are some very nice alternatives like Carolina elephants foot and Helianthus salicifolius.

http://www.scwildlife.com/articles/marapril2013/boggarden.html

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Rhexia virginica, Sarracenia leucophylla

Lobelia cardinalis

Sarracenia leucophylla

Persicaria amphibia

Eqiusetum hyemale

Asclepias rubra

Justicia americana

Scirpus atrovirens

Iris virginica

Marshallia obovata

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Wingstem just checks a lot of boxes for me: medium wet soil, part shade, spreads by rhizome, black walnut tolerant, deer resistant.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, I know you grow it and I'm not knocking it. My garden was so small with so many plants that I had to draw the line somwhere. If I had a bunch more space I'd be growing a bunch of them because they are important natives. You have more room to grow plants like that.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I think I will try some and put them somewhere by themselves in the back. As you can see my not in my lifetime forest is probably not going to shade them out anytime soon. For now it just looks like mulch freckles. And it will not be a problem if they go wild.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I looked at my house on google earth and it looks like it's getting engulfed by a giant oak from outer space. I won't be posting it! The hight of the oak tree looked like it was in the clouds. The hellstrip and small area I want to plant in the front were the only sunny parts in the photo. I need a selective tornado.

Adiantum capillus-veneris

Calopogon

Woodwardia areolata

Sarracenia purpurea

Osmunda regalis

Sarracenia purpurea

Nymphaea odorata

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Ha ha. I had another 3 inches of rain since yesterday, so my whole yard is a bog. This must be the wettest Fall/ Winter since I moved here.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

This has been an insanely wet year, 68" of precipitation. Over 20" higher than average.

Jay time to get into woodland gardening. Plant some trees and shrubs :)

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Trees????? If I have any more trees I'll only be able to grow parasitic plants that don't use chlorophyl. lol I already have a woodland, I just need the plantings.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Gaillardia pulchra
I'm still looking for seeds for these species. I've been searching for a long time. I'm desperate! I hava a few fishing lines out but still no bites. The milkweeds are native to my area.

Asclepias meadii. Threatened, endangered. It takes 15 years to flower. Fragrant, pendulous flower umbrel. The plant has few leaves. Female Monarchs usually lay their eggs on the flower clusters which the caterpillars eat and then defoliate the rest of the plant. In the past when there were still prairies, the plant stood a better chance of survival because all the other Asclepias species were also more plentiful. Monarch host plant.

Asclepias longifolia, Monarch host plant.

Asclepias amplexicaulis, Monarch host plant.

Asclepias quadrifolia, Monarch host plant.

Asclepias lanuginosa, Monarch host plant.

Hieracium venosum

Agalinis purpurea, Buckeye host plant.

Gamochaeta pensylvanica, Pennsylvania cudweed. It's just a weed, but I can't find seeds. Painted and American Lady host plant.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

What I would really want is the property behind mine. It’s about 14 acres. It belongs to the guy (blue arrow) that has a really big house on a hill, so I suppose he keeps it for his view. By now there are so many Callery Pears and all kinds of invasive weeds in there. But oh the possibilities! The pond is a drainage pond, didn’t dry up this year at all. It’s really high now, lots of pines in the water. No idea how I would be able to fix it up, but if I ever see a “For Sale” sign.....


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay, as for the cudweed it looks kind of like some of the weeds I have growing around. Of course I have no idea what they are. I will go take pictures of them as soon as I am not up to my ankles in mud.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, how do you take a picture of your house on google earth? I have it, but I can't take a picture. Miss Sherry was the one who told me about the cudweed.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

What are the Gaillardia pulchra? They look similar to the normal blanket flowers.


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay, since I am usually on my iPad I just do a screenshot.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

The pulchra are simular, just a little different. I collect all the Gaillardias. Luckily, there's only a few.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Shrubs are a good idea. These are a few I want to grow. If I could get a pic of my yard on google earth, you'd understand why I don't want any more trees.lol

Sambucus racemosa

Sambucus racemosa

Aralia racemosa

Aralia spinnosa, another eastern native Aralia.

Calycanthus

Triosteum perfoliatum, I had never heard of this plant, but I saw it at Prairie Moon and thought it was unusual. I'm happy I decided to grow it. It's small and unbranched, so it won't cause problems and it's a host plant for the Snowberry Clearwing.

Triosteum perfoliatum

Triosteum perfoliatum

Cephalanthus occidentalis, representing Rubiaceae

Cephalanthus occidentalis

Has anyone seperated a seed mix and planted the single species?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

https://earth.app.goo.gl/?apn=com.google.earth&ibi=com.google.b612&isi=293622097&ius=googleearth&link=https%3a%2f%2fearth.google.com%2fweb%2f%4041.48568817,-88.17505434,174.70584731a,90.74646673d,35y,0h,0t,0r

Skip, this is my yard on google earth. The only part of the yard that has sun is the hellstrip and little area in the front that I was going to plant. I'm glad I have the other full sun garden. I really like the woods and all but.....




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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Wow, yours is so three dimensional!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I might have had it on 3d. My next door neighbor's yard isn't that big, but he has 6 oak trees, ridiculous! What all kinds of plants and shrubs and trees are you growing now Iris?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

You don’t mean all kinds of things I planted, right? That list would be really insane. Just in the recent years I planted everything from Carolina Laurel Cherry to Buckeye to button bushes to red bay to white oaks (since it seems to be preferred by the Polyphemus Moth in my yard) to Sassafras and countless other things.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)



Yeah, I guess you're right. Mine would be a long list too. Those moths are rare up here. I think I've only seen 2 of them my whole life.


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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Maps on my phone has a newer actual photograph, while Maps on Firefox and Earth on Chrome on my computer are only giving me a 3D rendering type picture.

Where's the sun? I have that area along the driveway and along the street. I want the rest to be woods. Theres a ~160 year old sycamore at the entrance of my driveway, 5 old silver maples, 3 norway spruces including a tall mature one, over a dozen canopy height black locusts, 5 or 6 canopy height black walnuts, 2 40+ year old and one 20 year old pin oaks, several black cherries and choke cherries, a line of old osage oranges at the back, and norway maple, white pine, eastern red cedar, and white mulberry near the street by the cross walk. I still want to add more trees! Asimina triloba and Ilex opaca this year. I planted a 2 or 3 gal Magnolia virginiana, 3 Cornus florida seedlings, 5 small Staphylea trifolia, and 5 Quercus prinus seedlings this year. You can see an opening in the canopy at the back of the lot where there is mulch on the ground, that is where I put the chestnut oaks. There were 4 huge trees right around the house I had removed when i first moved in, then I had a couple fall and removed 3 white mulberries last year. I have in my mind a bunch of black locusts and a couple other trees I wish to remove one day, and like a real forest I will have replacements in the ground waiting for the chance to take their place.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay,I can do bigger than that!


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Thanks for the pictures. Skip, I think you have more trees, but also more sun, a little more, not a lot. Iris, is that the turtle that bit your husband? It looks like it wants to eat your dog. I switched the google earth to 3D. I'll do it again regular, soon. Those are nice trees you planted Skip. I'd be planting them too if I had the room. There's a lot of trees and shrubs I'd like to grow. I'd love to grow fruits and nuts, but I can't.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Oz native,

Wollemia nobilis

Wollemia nobilis, the oldest and rarest tree on Earth. 200 million years old. Discovered in Ausralia in 1994, growing in a deep, shaded, sandstone gorge.

Wollemia nobilis

It was listed as critically endangered in 1995. The entire wild population is only 40 adults and 200 juveniles. They are in Wollemi National Park in New South Wales. It's common name is the Wollemi Pine, but it's not in the Pinus genus, but is instead in the family Araucariaceae,, and is related to Agathis and Araucaria.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)





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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)






"Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you shall never enter the kingdom of heaven!"

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

https://youtu.be/W8y9tUzrNKU

I've always wanted to grow paw paws!

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Anyone have experienced direct seeding? Im thinking about making seed balls with the Zizia aurea seeds and putting them directly in my front bed. I haven't had any luck direct seeding most things, but the Lupinus perennis seed balls did work.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, I know nothing about seed balls. I thought you were supposed to throw them like seed bombs. I didn't know you had the Lupins. They sell a lot of milkweed seedballs on ebay. How do you make them?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silphium

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma_(drink)

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

My one Lupin did pretty well, the other one not so much.


For seed bombs you combine 4 parts air dry clay, 1 part seedling mix or compost, 1 part seeds, mix it up and flatten it into a sheet, then roll it up into like a snake and cut or break it into pieces and form them into balls. Let them dry and then they are ready to throw

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

"Humility? I'm probably the humblest man on the planet"

orange headed bandit

https://youtu.be/_zu53yAoTJE

https://youtu.be/_zu53yAoTJE

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Is there an advantage to throwing the seed balls rather than just planting them? I could see doing it for hard to reach places.

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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

Yes, like I remember TR threatening to make some and lob into her neighbor's yard (lol). But otherwise, I'd say why bother (unless hard to reach).

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

The ball could supposedly protect the seeds from floating away or being eaten. Planting or throwing the ball I dont think matters.

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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

And if you were planting seed purposefully, you'd probably disturb the soil and try to cover the seed anyway.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Well, good comments. Around here the ants don't seem to eat the seeds, but when I was sending seeds to family in Southern Texas the ants were eating the seeds. I know they play some part with some spring epheral seeds. They eat off the waxy coat and move the seeds around, probably aiding germination. Feminised seeds don't have balls. lol

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Debarron, do you grow Silene virginica?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, if you're making those seed balls now can you take a picture? I myself was leaning more towards making bombs for my militant guerilla gardening! I'm going to seed ball a long stretch of the I&M canal with a bunch of missing and needed natives! My Calotropis seedlings are showing so I'm now winter gardening.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I havent made any, I was just trying to think of ways to help seeds grow directly in the garden. Especially small surface sown seeds. I purchased and planted the lupin seed bombs a few years ago.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

So did your lupins bloom? I don't remember seeing any pictures. I like the blue lupins a lot. I've always added sand to the soil when I've planted them. I've always wanted an expanding colony of them. I don't think I'll be planting any seeds directly in the ground. You should build a little greenhouse in the corner then you can do seedlings all year long lol.



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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Yeah Jay scroll up 10 comments, there are 2 pictures of my Lupins. You know I still have the frame from the other mini green house I made last year, and now I have some insect screen cloth I could cover it with.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

The lupins are awesome! Sorry I spaced about the pictures. They look like they're doing good with the wood mulch. I might use it to keep the weeds down. Is that the same lupin from 2 different angles? Is that all creeping moss in the front? What are those young trees in the background. Did you fertilise anything that was mulched?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Hot colored milkweeds

milkweed

milkweed

milkweed

milkweed

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I think Tex did scatter cowpen daisy seeds along the fence on her neighbor's side, and then was upset when they started looking ratty and she couldn't cut them back unnoticed lol. :)

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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

Lol, sounds about right. Hope they reseed.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

She was afraid to ring the door bell and ask permission to tidy them; probably because she didn't ask permission to plant them, but it's compensation because she has to pull up a million of his hackberry seedlings every year. Funny maybe the neighbor, sitting on his living room sofa, seeing her, dangling from a ladder, taking fell swipes with her hori hori knife lol !!!.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Jay those are two different Lupine plants. I dont fertilize anything, I mulched with the municipal compost last year, but I'm trying to have enough plants where I dont need mulch.

The young trees in the background from left to right are a black walnut, a mostly dead apple of some kind, and eastern red cedars. When I moved in the red cedars were completely covered in a curtain of japanese honey suckle.

That is all creeping Phlox subulata in front. It looks really brown and sad all winter then almost glows when it blooms in spring, then turns that nice bright green in later spring.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

So is that mulch just the city compost? It looks like wood mulch.

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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

At least in Tulsa, that's what city compost looked like (appeared to be mostly slightly composted wood chips).

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I think it's great to look for local ecotypes, but none of the native nurseries around here advertise them. I just figure that after growing a species for a few years the remaining decendants will be adaptable phenotypes, I may be wrong, but doesn't matter because nobody offers local ecotypes around here. If I had gotten local ecotypes of Barbara's Buttons they might have survived, but I think they ranged further south in the first place. You never know unless you try to grow! lol

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Debarron, you never answered my question about growing fire pinks. I suppose because I want it so bad and have trouble with it, I suppose for that reason it grows like weeds in your yard and you stop mowing all of it that's in your lawn when it goes into bloom lol. The compost here looks like that too. I think they deliver truckloads.





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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

I've haven't tried them for years because they seem to require special niches in the woods. They're also quite short lived.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Thanks, I'm going to try them one more time. Maybe I'll have better luck. I was not very experienced back then. Silenes in general all seem to need a little fussing with. At least all the ones I've grown.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, why did you use seed balls to plant your lupins?

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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

Stellata and ovata seem much easier than most (had stellata in Oklahoma, but think Im just too wet here).

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

My stellata doesn't get enough rain. I really like it. I wish it would reseed. I want to grow the S. stenoohylla. It's the one that was extinct for 32,000 years. Have you ever thought of trying Silene caroliniana? It comes in a hot pink. I had a volunteer bladder campion onces. I kind of liked it.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Enjoying all the pictures!

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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

Jay, caroliana is a flat-growing dry lander. I live in a swamp. It'd either rot or be totally overshadowed by other things. I can't grow things that like really dry or don't get any height to them (I have other things that are taller already).

Of course the contradictory thing is part of the yard (unless I move hoses around) doesn't get watered in summer, so it may be totally crispy July-Sept. Worst of both worlds.
I am adding Heliopsis Burning Hearts this year...since heliopsis helianthoides is such a work horse and blooms forever (even here). Rogue posted it over on the Perennials forums sometime during the year, so I started looking for it. It has a striking red center with yellow petals.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Psychotria, Rubiaceae

Psychotria viridis

Psychotria viridis

Banisteropsis caapi

Mix P. viridis and B. caapi together and you get ayahuasca.

Psychotria elata


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Raphionacme, Asclepiadoideae. Houseplant worthy.




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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

For all you Indian plantain haters lol. At least my giant Heracleum maximum won't look so out of place.

https://www.louistheplantgeek.com/a-gardening-journal/395-arnoglossum-atriplicifolia

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I have a couple Silene caroliniana plants right next to the concrete steps in the front. They seem to still be alive after one season, lets see if they bloom next year.

I planted Lupine seed bombs because I had no idea what I was doing at the time and ordered them on amazon not knowing what a seed bomb was.

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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

One we see here is Arnoglossum plantagineum

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)



Iris, all these milkweeds are native to South Carolina. Better start digging!

Asclepias tomentosa

Asclepias tomentosa

Asclepias pedicellata

Asclepias pedicellata

Asclepias obovata

Asclepias michauxii

Asclepias connivens

Asclepias connivens

Asclepias cineria

Asclepias cineria

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I was looking at the A. plantagineum. It's a nice plant. More practical height, and it would blend in better. The leaves are nice too. They both range in our areas, but I've never noticed them. Skip, from the looks of it, the bombs paid off!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Callirhoe alcaeoides

Callirhoe bushii

Callirhoe digitata

Callirhoe involucrata

Callirhoe leiocarpa

Callirhoe papaver

Callirhoe pedata

Callirhoe scabriuscula

Callirhoe triangulata

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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

Involucrata and bushii have always grown best for me, though I love this group. Alceoides does well too, but not very available.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I have some of the Callirhoe. Not sure what kind, but they are a favorite of the rabbits. Can’t win against the critters.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

You have to love the C. papaver. That's just gorgeous! The pink one is nice! I like the digitata too, for something higher. Not much difference in the flowers.

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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

Sad thing is it (callirhoe) doesn't seem to reseed itself much for me. I have (now) two bushii's in the front yard. One is a seedling of the other. That's after 4 years in that spot. It flowers (and sets seed) all the time, they just don't seem to make it.

In the backyard, I have a involucrata that I've had for ten years or more. It's never had an offspring, even though it does have other plants to provide cross pollination.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I lot of people say it helps germinating by soaking their seeds in hot water. I'm trying it both ways to see if there's a difference. I don't know why they would need hot water treatment unless they only grew near hot springs. The papaver is native for you. Have you thought about growing it? It reminds me of a pasque flower.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Hoya, Asclepiadoideae, Apocynaceae, Gentianales. 300 species.

Hoya carnosa

Hoya pubycalix

Hoya flores

Hoya carnosa

NOID

NOID

Hoya odorata

Hoya lauterbachii

Hoya carnosa

NOID

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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

I think I've tried (once) a long time ago with papaver.

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dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)

I like the involucrata as it needs to find something to climb on. It's at its cutest when peering down to look at at something else there will be a bright red flower peeking out of the foliage. Maybe its heritage comes from the short grass prairie and in order to find sun, it points face up and grows that way.

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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

It's purely a crawler for me...but a stout enough one to find sunshine at need. I've seen it growing in TGP conditions in Nebraska.

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dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)

Jay, you can cover that post(or pipe) in your front area with a fake rock. I did that with the well head sticking up in my main garden.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Seeds are hard to find, impossible actually. 2 native nurseries sell papaver plants. It looks like it may be hard to get going. Have you seen them in the wild, there in Arkansas?

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dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)

It doesn't have tentacles, just leans on something else.

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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

No, I don't frequent hot dry places (where papaver would grow).

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I was wondering what Skip was talking about. That big metal thing sticking out of the ground. Yeah, that sounds like a good idea Pat. I never even thought about using a fake rock. I thought of planting a shrub to kind of cover it, but the fake rock is a better idea. I wonder if I can find one locally. I'd hate to have to spend a lot to ship a fake rock!

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dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)

I paid around $45 on Amazon or eBay shipped.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Pat, I need one that's about 3 feet tall. They had a jumbo one on Amazon for $135. I might have to make a diy faux one.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I would just plant big upright grasses around it


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

That would be cheaper and easier. I have enough grasses. I was going to make my own rocks to edge the gardens once. I wanted them to look and fit together like at Machu Pichu. It never happened lol. But it was a cool idea. Then there was the elvish garden architecture from Rivendell in Lord of the Rings. Like I was really going to pull that off!

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texasranger2

Barron, I didn't have luck with the Callirhoe bushii seeds but I get several volunteers each year from C involucrata ---both wine colored and white, some are light pink, probably from crossing between the wine and white. I never thought of it as a climber and don't think it has parts to hold on with to climb on anything, its a horizontal spreader. I cut mine back around mid July when it's bloomed out and starts looking ratty. It takes up a lot of horizontal space and grows onto the sidewalk making a spread about three feet from the center in every direction. Several volunteers come up in sidewalk cracks or right next to the sidewalk and elsewhere, I pull them but left a couple in the cracks which are cute. I tried to get rid of the white one because it grows over the water meter and onto the street; I got a message from the Water Dept about it. I tried digging it out but no luck, huge tap root, so I just keep it cut back.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I planted I think 4 Callirhoe involucrata seedlings this year. One went in early-ish in the year, got attacked by spider mites, but was still alive in the fall and looked healthy. I didn't plant the other ones until late in the season maybe October, they're more questionable to survive. I planted some other seedlings around the same time, I'm interested to see what makes it.




This is the kind of garden I like. Not my photos

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I think I bought a winecup one year as an annual. It was probably involucrata. Pat I was just looking again at the seeds you wanted and you did put involucrata down. Skip, how hot was the water you soaked the seeds in? What's that first picture? I winter sowed some Callirhoe seeds without soaking and I'm going to sow more that are soaked.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I boiled water in a tea pot then poured the water over the seeds which were in a cup, then let them sit 6-8 hours I think. The first picture is the same property as the second, just a different angle. Before and after, lawn to meadow.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Prairie Moon sells seeds for Callirhoe digitata and triangulata too. I thought boiling water might kill the seeds but I guess not.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

The Callirhoe leiocarpa is an annual. It's native to Oklahoma. I'm growing Gaillardia aestivalis var. aestivalis from Native American Seed. The one I want is Gaillardia aestivalis var. flavovirens. I wouldn't mind having a real Winkler's White!

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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

Well, I could have collected you that one if i was still living in Oklahoma (I knew where some grew about 6 miles from the house). It tended to not bloom a whole lot though (the ones I knew/saw).

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Gaillardia aestivalis var. flavovirens


So, it didn't look like this? It's no big deal, I have 4 other Gaillardias. I'll find them eventually. A lot of places don't specify the variation part. This doesn't happen that often where there's a variation or subspecies. There's a variation of the Thaspium trifoliatum I have. It has purple flowers, but it's rare and hard to find seeds for.

Gaillardia aestivalis var. aestivalis

Gaillardia aestivalis var. winkleri

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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

I like winkleri, haven't seen that variation before.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

There is a plant I've been wanting to ask you about. Salvia reflexa. I just learned about it not too long ago and it looks interesting. I see some with white flowers and others white and blue. I'm just interested in new plants right now. I'm not looking for any more seeds, except the rare, elusive ones that continue to evade me!

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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

Don't know anything about it, but it does look very closely like salvia azurea.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I didn't think so, but there's not any good photos online. Like the Callirhoe, it was hard to find good photos of the foliage, and the only big difference between the species is the foliage. I like the winkleri too. The pure white one. I think that subspecies only grows in one small area in Texas. I'd be shocked if the reflexa sprawled as wide as the azurea.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I looked at more pictures and the reflexa looks similar to azurea. I like the reflexa better, it looks more tidy. The foliage looks like a cross between azurea and farinacea. No doubt you can't find seeds for it. The only Salvias I'll be growing are coccinea and lyrata. I think my nervosa kicked the bucket, good riddance!

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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

I grow azurea, it can be very impressive (in particular central Nebraska has a strain, which Harlan Hamernick of BlueBird Nursery, selected 'Nekan' from). I haven't grown Nekan, but I saw the native population there being very tall/stout and with relatively huge sky-blue flowers. Very lovely.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

That sounds like a beautiful population. I had a huge and beautiful azurea years ago. After having it a few years, I felt it was taking up too much ground space. I moved it to a less sunny area and it started to decline and go downhill from there. My garden was so small and I had so many plants. I would like to grow azurea again. Now I know it needs full sun and space. It was the same situation with my Missouri evening primrose. It took up a lot of space. You can't find seeds or plants for S. reflexa anywhere. I don't understand why Prairie Moon doesn't sell seeds for it. It ranges further north. They do carry things that range more in the south. There's just little things about prairie moon that make me wonder like, how long does it take to snap a picture of Salvia lyrata and put it on your site? Their Agalinis purpurea crop must have failed because they never had seeds for it. I did plant 3 other Agalinis species, but I'm still wanting the purpurea.


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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

Yes, and forget about transplanting a good sized one :)

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

There was that too lol. I'm sure moving the monster played a huge part.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Threatened and endangered plants of Illinois.

Tetraneuris herbacea, Lakeside Daisy

Boltonia decurrens, Decurrent False Aster

Cirsium pitcheri, Pitcher's Thistle

Isotria medeoloides, Small Whorled Pogonia

Platanthera leucophaea, Eastern Prairie Fringed Orchid

Dalea foliosa, Leafy Prairie Clover

Lespedeza leptostachya, Prairie Bush Clover

Apios priceana, Price's Potato Bean

Asclepias meadii, Mead's Milkweed

https://youtu.be/xuvOZ2vuOT8

Video is about Aralia racemosa

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Amsonia hubrichtii

https://youtu.be/3wZs6XgTo7M

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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

That apios priceana is a nice looking bean. The Tetraneuris herbacea daisy is quite nice too (too bad I couldn't grow it). Most of the rest are at least ok looking. That amsonia footage wasn't just hubrichtii, they also showed at least one other (didn't really listen to it..just skipped through).

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

https://youtu.be/n9WMUSex-j0

Video about Silene virginica. I like all the endangered Illinois plants. Both videos included related species. I didn't know the Amsonia hubrichii was from Arkansas.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I have faith in the plan, to lay waste to my yard as it is now and turn it into something else

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Go for it!!! Is that your yard on tv? lol

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

that was a page in a book lol

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I know that ain't your yard,......yet! I can't edit my heading. I liked the old hippie teaching about Aralia. I didn't know they had medicinal properties. And it's in the ginseng family, that's awesome. I got 10 more bins today. It should be enough to finish sowing what's left. I'm going to sow some more flower fillers like Gaillardias and Ratibidas that I can spread throughout the plantings.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Yeah that guy has a bunch of videos, he has one about porterweed. I had a teacher who knew all about the herbal and edible uses of all these wild plants, he would make dozens of different teas and infusions from them. I would probably accidentally destroy my liver and kidneys if I tried that.

The bin farm grows.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I want to see his video about porterweeds. There was a guy back in the late 60s, early 70s who started a movement about eating wild herbs and plants. His name was Euell Gibbons. I have to see if ginseng is hardy for me. I wouldn't use it. It's too pretty to destroy, unless there's lots of them.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Panax quinquefolius, American ginseng

Panax quinquefolius

Panax trifolius, dwarf ginseng

Panax trifolius

Ginseng roots

http://www.nomadseed.com/2018/05/dwarf-ginseng-panax-trifolius/


https://youtu.be/nwhch3icVvw

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Merry Christmas and a very happy, healthy 2019! May it be filled with lots of caterpillars!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I want to grow these species in pots.

Cassia didymobotrya

Cuphea cyanea

Tweedia caerula

Stachytarpheta

Stachytarpheta

Gomphocarpus cancellatus

Gomphocarpus physocarpus

Petunia exserta

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Aristolochia,Aristolochiaceae, Piperales, Magnoliids, Angiosperms. All species mimic decaying protien odors to lure insects. Once inside the tubular flowers, they are temporarily trapped, affecting pollination. This pollination mode has convergently evolved in a few other families like Araceaae, Asclepiadoideae, and Rafflesiaceae, 500 species. Closely related to the very similar genus Pararistolochia. Aristolochia species are host plants for butterflies in the family Papilionidae the world over, including the largest butterfly, the Queen Alexandra Birdwing in the genus Ornithoptera.

Aristolochia chilensis, Chile

Aristolochia gigantea, Brazil

Aristlochia fimbriata, South America

Aristolochia foetida, Mexico

Aristolochia salvadorensis, Brazil, Darth Vader flower

Aristolochia cathcartii, eastern Himalayas to Southern China

Aristolochia sempervirens, Crete

Aristolochia didyma, South America

Aristolochia grandiflora, Caribbean, Central America

Pipevine Swallowtail caterpillar, Battus philenor

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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

Plan on starting the porterweed soon then, they grow slowly (I grew three species one year in Oklahoma).

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I'm ordering mail order plants and about 5 people have already offered me cuttings.(backup) I've heard contradictory things about their growth rate.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Indian plantains. They're starting to grow on me.

Arnoglossum album

Arnoglossum album

Arnoglossum atriplicifolium

Arnoglossum diversifolium

Arnoglossum diversifolium

Arnoglossum floridanum

Arnoglossum ovatum

Arnoglossum plantagineum

Arnoglossum reniforme

Arnoglossum sulcatum

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Debarron, your peony seeds have weird germination requirements. Don't they? Warmth, followed by cool. Panax quinquefolius takes 2 years to germinate. I hate messing with anything that needs more than 60 days of cold stratification.

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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

Yes, but they're not the only ones. Any number of plants have that requirement, the peonies actually germinate in the first warm season but don't throw up topgrowth till after a cold period, hellebores (if not fresh) require warm, cold, for germination.

Due to not getting enough cold last year (planted about 5th of January), I have dicentra and corydalis that I'm hoping to see this spring, though all week it's been about 60...so who knows. But that's another story.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Yeah, those fumitory plants are weird. I had a climbing fumitory (name look up) and it germinatied after being dormant for years. It put on a lot of growth that first year, but it never returned to bloom the next year. I haven't tried growing it since. Here's a question. When ephemerals have seedlings, do the seedlings last all season in order to put on growth, or do they go dormant at the same time as the adults? I noticed a few D. spectabilis seedlings in the spring. I should move them to where they get a little more sun. There's big gold standard hostas nearby that shade them. All the hostas are headed for the compost pile. (at some point). EDIT. Adlumia fungosa, climbing fumitory. A delicate, thin covering vine not unlike Tropaeolum peregrinum. At one time I thought it was the ultimate.

Adlumia fungosa

Tropaeolum peregrinum

Dicentra spectabilis

Dicentra spectabilis

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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

It depends Jay, like most everything else. Habitat, climate, genetics. I've had some mature ephemerals given the right conditions last till autumn. This year, my hymenocallis occidentalis had foliage till frost, instead of losing it by June as it usually does. I *still* have foliage on my polemonium which is against a north wall.

There are no rules, and plants do as they like.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I meant more their seedlings. Of course none of us pay much attention to miniscule seedling ephemerals.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip and Pat, I mailed your seeds today. Estimated delivery date Sat. 12-29-18.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I could grow Hymenocallis occidentalis here if it was swampy. But it's not. Mesic,dry.

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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

I wish I could trade you a couple sq ft of swamp and you could give me in exchange some dry mesic feet so I could grow a few more things.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Jay I'll get that purple top grass out to you tomorrow.

I was looking in one of my books and saw this sweetshrub variety that apparently will grow in shade to sun, swampy to all but the driest conditions, has high verticillium resistance, glossier foliage, and seeds true to form, wondering if its worth the extra cost and small size to mail-order a few:

Will marginal wood fern Dryopteris marginalis handle short periods of winter and spring flooding?

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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

My take (since pages say well-drained soil), is probably not. Other than a few ferns like osmunda regalis, I don't see ferns growing where they are likely to be submerged for any length of time (but that's my observations from my part of the world).

Dryopteris tends to like something like heucheras like in the wild. Well-drained, slopes, but high humidity where they won't dessicate between rains, ie even moisture maybe tweaked toward dryness.

I have sometimes seen Christmas fern (Polystichum acrostichoides) in washes that only run for hours after rains, but they look the worse for wear when savaged by water.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I did grow Hymenocallis once as Peruvian daffodil. It never came back. Same with the Polianthus tuberosa. I tried the Bletilla orchids. They lasted only a couple years but were spectacular when they bloomed. I tried a foxtail lily, but it never bloomed. That was during my exotic bulb period lol. These new native lillies are gorgeous. I really like the look and shiny leaves of the Calycanthus. Who has it Skip? Wouldn't sensative fern take flooding? I like the Onclea, but some don't care for it. I tried hard at growing it, but it needs a lot of moisture. Some have too many of them. Jewelweed could help remedy that by thugging them out. I have a link about plants and runoff. There might be something good in it. We have 2 days in the 50s,(heat wave) but it's raining non stop. Looks like the east coast is getting clobbered again.

Hymenocallis, Peruvian daffodil

Bletilla striata orchid

Eremurus, foxtail lily

Polianthus tuberosa

https://www.post-gazette.com/life/garden/2017/08/04/Wet-zone-plants-stormwater-drainage-clay-soils-flooding/stories/201708060024

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


The natives.

Erythronium americanum

Camassia quamash

lilium michiganense

Trillium erectum

Maianthemum stellatum

Clintonia umbellata

Stenanthium gramineum

Stenanthium gramineum

Smilacina stellata

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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

Yeah, I don't have clintonia, but have the rest of this last batch. I was sent some bulbs of Michigan lily fiveteen years ago, and loved it. I had several populations going at my property in Oklahoma. It doesn't flower a lot, but spectacular when it does.



Yes, sensitive fern is usually growing on the side of creeks, if not in the water. It would be a great choice for occasional flooding, but probably also has high requirements for staying moist.

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