Please critique our kitchen design!
Hi everyone. This is my first time posting here but I have been reading a ton and it has been so helpful so far. My husband and I recently purchased a 1914 bungalow in an estate sale and are updating the kitchen, which is currently down to the studs. I am writing to ask for advice/feedback about our proposed kitchen design from our kitchen designer.
We have a number of limitations since this is an old house and we don't want to do anything to the exterior. The exterior door (bottom right) and windows cannot be moved. There is no other logical place to put the fridge - it is located in a preexisting niche. We cannot do anything about the dummy cabinet at the bottom left - it is covering a pre-existing door that leads from the exterior to the basement below (old house weirdness); that door is the only basement egress and we don't want to get rid of it or get involved in foundation work. The ceiling is 84" in the area towards the bottom (there is a beam running across, starting from the bottom edge of the fridge niche), ~8'4" in the rest of the room. The house does not have gas and we are not planning a conversion at this stage; the range will be induction. The appliance dimensions in this plan are based on the appliances we already picked out (but have not taken delivery of). This plan is for Schrock semi-custom cabinets.
The door between kitchen and dining room (top center) is actually slightly further to the left than this preliminary plan shows, so the "L" at the top right is larger and there is space for one more cabinet between that door and the corner at the top right.
Preferences: I cook a lot and am left handed; my husband also cooks and is a righty. I would like the sink in front of a window and a range hood is a must have. The wall between the back door (bottom right) and the counters is something we want to have because we live in a cold climate and that wall will keep gusts of cold air from making the kitchen into a tundra. We have never had a microwave before so it's not a central item for us, so it's fine to shove it out of the way on a shelf.
I have never designed a kitchen before and as it turns out, I am really not good at space planning. My questions are:
1. Does this seem user friendly? Is there a way to improve the flow? I love to cook and this is my one bite at this apple, so feedback is very welcome.
2. During demo we uncovered a large cavity in the wall just to the right of where the fridge will be, starting at counter height (it's a weirdo space between the levels of the staircases). Would be nice to use the space for something, but nothing beyond some sort of appliance garage (which would only use part of the space) is coming to mind.
3. What size sink should we get? Planning on a single basin with a right-offset drain. Should we be trying to put the garbage in a roll out under the sink, or will it be OK not to have the garbage right next to the sink?
Thank you so much for any thoughts!
Comments (9)
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Don't hold back...critique our kitchen design
Comments (14)Wow, thanks for the quick feedback! I've wobbled a little about the upstairs or downstairs laundry. I decided that it would be a major pain to drag the two year old upstairs with me if I wanted to throw a load in during the day...of course the kids will grow up and they will be throwing the loads in (Hah!). We've been trying to find a laundry chute area and will have to ask the builder about it. (I grew up in a 1920s home and we used to lower ourselves down the laundry chute when our parents weren't home...did anyone else?) Shifting the sink to the right makes alot of sense. I love the idea of space for team clean-up, especially if I am still sitting at the table with my evening glass of red wine. Moving the oven next to the fridge would be easy, and would get it out of the doorway. Plus a recess for the fridge would make it look like it blends in better. Thanks! I appreciate the concerns about the banquette, too. I hadn't thought of the "booth" situation. Everyone has to slide off the bench so the youngest (or oldest!) can use the potty. We'll cut off a little from the end cabinet and research the dimensions of a banquette. Thanks for the positive feedback as well as the criticism. It is nice to think that the whole mudroom-laundry-pantry idea meets with approval since it was my desperate attempt to combine passageways and function. I think about this house plan while I do the "Mommy Taxi" and sketch out ideas on junk mail envelopes at red lights. Any more feedback is much appreciated. I'm starting to feel like this plan is coming together, thanks to your help!...See MorePlease critique our kitchen layout, thank you!!!
Comments (14)If you're willing to move the kitchen entry a few feet (6'?) toward the top wall, you'd still have traffic coming through, but it wouldn't pass by the ovens and fridge. In this plan you still have a snack center on the periphery, with the ovens close to the cooktop. You still have a view while you prep, and a second prep area by the clean-up sink. There's room for a small appliance in the corner between the cooktop and ovens. (Forgot that the fridge is drawn too small--the pantry on the right of the fridge might need to be a pull-out, or make each pantry smaller.) In the laundry area there's room by the W/D for a short counter over a pull-out for storage. This close to the kitchen sink, I'd skip the sink in the mudroom/laundry. I wanted to post this plan, but also want to say (and I'll take the hits) that I don't think the ovens in the original plan are much of a problem. You won't be carrying hot dishes--with the oven door open and racks extended, you'll be pivoting in a 3' arc, to set them on the end of the counter by the cooktop. Turn the other direction, and you can use the island as landing space, if you have more than one hot dish. Ditto for anything you want to set down long enough to open the oven for loading. Just yell, "Oven's open!" before you use it. If you have small kids running in and out through that entry, you can always put a latch on the sliding door, and get in the habit of latching it when you open the oven. :)...See MorePlease Help Critique Kitchen/Dining/Utility in Our New Construction
Comments (28)This plan puts the fridge on the end by the doors, but still has prep and cooking on the same wall. I moved the sink the other direction, to make room for the DW, and moved the island toward the utility room. You might not want the fridge to be seen from the LR, but it makes a more functional layout, and the peninsula is not changed. I had to look up the NKBA guidelines to check the smallest recommended landing space beside a cooktop (12", #17) so I'll include a link to those: NKBA guidelines In both plans, I moved the island toward the peninsula, which gives you a few more inches in the working aisle. Also, if you haven't started framing, can the window and walls be changed? If the wall between the kitchen and utility room can be moved here are two more versions. The first is similar to the first plan I posted above, but with more room on each wall. You lose the larger pantry in the UR, but there is a pull-out or tall cab on the window wall. Where I have the shallow cabs you could have base cabinet only, with open shelves above, or have standard uppers--you would just need to make sure that there is enough elbow room to open the oven door. The blind corner (base or base and upper) could be used for storage for the bathroom, since the linen closet has been taken by the kitchen. In the next one I took a stab at recessing the fridge into utility room. There is pantry space between the oven and fridge, but part of it could still be used for the bathroom. You'd need to be careful not to hit the pantry cab with the fridge door, so I'm not sure if this is a good plan....See MorePlease critique our kitchen design
Comments (15)> What type of range do you want and what is your cooking style? > The over the range microwave is (at best) marginal for a standard range > but if you want a professional style range with high BTU burners it will not work. > Personally I would not want an over the range microwave/vent combo but > if you seldom cook (you live in NYC after all) it might be OK. We do cook a lot (both stove and oven) so I was trying to stay away from the microwave/hood. The original layout above actually gives us more counter space than we currently have which is why we considered it, although it sacrifices 30" to the wall oven + microwave, but also makes them more usable. > Any chance you could put the cabinets closer to the window? > Instead of the over the range microwave I'd try for a 24" microwave drawer > next to a 15" or 18" wide stack of drawers like you show in your rendering. I haven't looked into microwave drawers yet, that could be a good compromise, although not sure how usable they are at that height....See More
emho23
5 years agoemho23
5 years ago
mama goose_gw zn6OH
5 years agosarah and dan have good suggestions. I'd also put the sink under the other window, and make it a straight run, so that the DW can go to the left. I'm right-handed and my DW has been on the left for 24 years--one becomes accustomed to whichever side it's on. When I use the DW at my father-in-law's, it seems awkward, although it's on the right, because it's different than mine.
I pulled the cabinets out on the sink run, and pulled the fridge out on the other wall, to allow you to use all 24" deep drawers. I added countertop and a drawer base in the corner, with filler in front of the stub wall. You can barely clip the countertop on the outside corner by the hall, with a minimum of filler on that side. I have a 28" wide entry to my kitchen, from the LR, and I have the corner countertop clipped. Both corners are clipped on that run in my kitchen--I like clipped corners in a cottage/bungalow kitchen. You can also do the same on the counter by the back door.
emho23 thanked mama goose_gw zn6OHemho23
5 years ago@mama goose -- thank you for this. It's definitely something to consider, whether we would be better off without the L in the corner (although it's a more substantial L than this initial plan shows). My thought with the sink location was more about the amount of counter space to the left of the sink and less about the d/w, but this is food for thought. Definitely planning on putting an open shelf or two on the wall between the back door and the counters. Do you think if we clip the corner leading into the hallway, we won't need to do the 45 degree angle? Would the clip be enough to keep us from whacking ourselves on it?
The dummy cabinet is really difficult. I'm attaching some more renderings to make it a little easier to see the problem (don't mind the random "cabinet" writing - that is the dummy, my PDF conversion software is wonky). That stub wall can be as big as we want it to be because right now the kitchen is down to studs, but I think if we pull the fridge out more or add drawers or deeper cabs to the left of the fridge, it will block off the window too much.
mama goose_gw zn6OH
5 years agoDo you think if we clip the corner leading into the hallway, we won't
need to do the 45 degree angle? Would the clip be enough to keep us
from whacking ourselves on it?I don't recall anyone hitting his hip on the clipped corner in my kitchen. Our extended family dinners are served buffet-style from that counter, and everyone comes through the narrow door on the right from the LR. This is an in-progress pic of the corner on the right side of the run:
(The cabinets are vintage, bought from a Craigslist seller, and while I'd love to have all drawers, I also love these old cabinets. I used all drawers on the other side of the kitchen, to make up for the inconvenience. My house is a bungalow, built in the late 1920's, and comes with it's own quirks. ;)
The following pic is the other end, after cabinets were painted and doors were replaced. The narrow cabinet on the end was built to fill in the gap because the vintage base didn't take up all the wall space--as you can see, that cabinet actually has a narrow, angled corner, to match the clipped counter corner. That angled section lines up with the stub wall; although I could have made it a 'dummy' section, it has a little alcove in front of the stub wall, where I installed some left-over adjustable shelving track. Small shelves hold plastic Tupperware cups that I no longer use, but that my kids can't seem to give up, and they're easy for the grands to reach. I keep cutting boards and baking sheets in the deeper section of the narrow cabinet:
So, you could have a clipped corner, rather than the 45 degree angles, and lose less space in the base cabinets, but seeing the renderings, maybe pulling the fridge forward to match the cabinet bases would restricted the area between it and the stub wall by the back door.
I think I'd omit the stub wall by the back door, unless you have constant traffic from that door. How many months of the year do you have frigid weather? Omitting that wall would open the kitchen to light from the door, and improve traffic flow, and it would gain you a few more inches of counter and base cabinet space.
Making the sink run straight, instead of an L, will give you space for another drawer base, which will be more useful than a corner susan, and relocating the sink to the other window will put it and the DW closer to the DR entry, and you have a wide section of prep space to the right. It would also keep the DW out of the main prep space, so a helper could load the DW while you are prepping. If you omit the stub wall by the back door, and pull the fridge forward, you also gain counter space, and a drawer base, to the left of the fridge.
Another idea would be to center the sink between the windows, with a shorter upper cabinet above (or open shelves). You'd have ample space for prepping on each side of the sink, and dishes could be kept near the DR entry, so a helper could also unload the DW, or gather dishes to set the table, without interfering in your prep and cooking tasks. In that case, you could still have the L (green rectangles), but I don't think it would gain you that much useful storage space over an extra drawer base. You would gain the extra upper cabinet:
emho23 thanked mama goose_gw zn6OHemho23
5 years agoYour cabinets look great and I love the countertops. Gorgeous.
This is New England, so it's frigid 9 months of the year. I'm exaggerating, but it's at least 6 months. The back door is in real life going to be our main entry (it's right by the driveway) so I think we need that stub wall to block the wind and also to give us a faux mudroom with some cubbies for dog leashes and hats and things, corral the mud a bit.
Centering the sink is not a bad idea. The previous owners had it between the windows. We had planned to center it on the right hand window because I'm left handed and everyone seems to like a sink in front of a window. I'll mention that to our KD. It would be nice to have the two prep zones. It would also let us put the dishwasher on one side of the sink and trash on the other.
I'm attaching an updated schematic. This reflects the actual framed-out kitchen. The L is longer and there is one additional cabinet on the L wall (18" drawer base and upper), so I think it is probably worth keeping. Our current thought is to get rid of the upper cabinets in between the two windows in order to bring in more natural light. I'll also talk to the KD about the clipped corner on right of the stove, but I do think it might make the hallway too much of a tunnel.
Thank you for your excellent thoughts!!
sarahachevalier