There really is not as much space there as you think. Leave it open. Plenty of seating options already.

Thanks everyone for your wonderful comments.

1) The laundry room/ DOG ROOM (sorry I should have mentioned why it is so big) stays as is. We have 3 rescue dogs that will be contained in that area during the day when we are at work. As the planned room is now smaller than the current laundry room we have, I have no extra room that I am willing to give to the kitchen. I LOVE my huge laundry room that I have now.j

2) I currently have 42 inches of space from my dining table to my current island (with overhang and stools) I use those stools at the island constantly, friends perch there while I cook, or if doing a quick meal my husband and I sit there together instead of at the dining table. We will keep the same dining table and number of chairs as it works for us.

3) the dining table stays, it is a beautiful table and it is currently placed in a space that is actually smaller than the space it will go into and we have no sense of feeling squeezed in tight. Plus it is currently in a kitchen with 8 foot flat ceilings, this room will be cathedral ceiling with 9 foot walls (roof pitch is 12/12 so I am not quite sure what the ratio will be in the interior itself

4) The back of the house where the dining room is will be over an exposed basement/very steep hill. The deck will remain minimal and located off the front of the living room only. The door will stay in the dining room to the deck as there will no access from the living room to the deck.

5) the size of the kitchen stays as is. I currently have a large kitchen with a lot of cabinets, we eat a whole foods diet and do not need a lot of "processed food storage" What I need is prep space, hence the current size of the island on the drawing. My husband (the Drafter ;) ) is looking at decreasing the island length by a foot to give more room between the fridge and the island and then shifting the island back away from the cooktop a few more inches. I love the curve, it stays. :)

6) The beams will be decorative painted foam, their position the plan is not necessarily where they will land as they will be added with finishing touches. I will be sure to pay attention to how they layout in the overall scheme, thank you for pointing that out.

I really do appreciate all the advice everyone has given, we have done many renovations and have learned from our mistakes along the way. The size of this kitchen will be perfect for me, maybe not someone else. The pantry is huge, so if we should decide to sell it will be easy enough for someone to bump the kitchen back into some of the pantry. Personally I prefer to do minimal really beautiful upgraded cabinets and have a huge pantry to store things I do not use every day.

Merry Christmas!!

Oh, I forgot to mention the door that goes between the cabinets leads out to an enclosed 3 season room, the back of the house (where the dining room is, overlooks a probably 20 feet slope

"My husband (the Drafter ;) ) . . . "

He he!!

He actually is a project manager for an engineering firm that specializes in food processing company layouts. He has been doing commercial design for over 30 years and loves to dabble with house plans as we did renovations to houses over the years. This will be our first new construction build

Are you having any issues yet?

(sorry, I just have to give you a hard time)

That explains a lot.

No you will not have room for two islands. You barely have room for the one currently on plan.

This plan could use a lot of work, important areas are really tight while other places are overly open.

Too Funny. I did not take offense to your warning flag. We are veteran DIYers (25 years renovating, married 25 years) with a very good friend in "the business" who always directs my dear hubby if he veers off course.

I recognize a lot of people look at my layout and find fault, but for the first time I am designing a build for "ME" not for resale.

I do love to hear what everyone has to say though. I cannot wait.... four rolling wooded acres in the country is calling my name!!

My sister added a feature to her kitchen that I have not seen anywhere else, but thought was genius. On the wall that is shared by the pantry she has secret doors under the cabinets. The counter extends between the kitchen and the pantry and she keeps her small appliances on shelves in the pantry. No more lifting the big kitchenaid mixer, no bending and searching in a cabinet for the blender, toaster, waffle iron, crock pot. whatever you need you just lift the doors and push the appliance through into the kitchen.

The idea behind the layout is great, but it is made to look good on paper. Not to flow in real life.

Flip door for powder bath.

Move W/D to outside wall.

Change walkway in kitchen closer tot he exterior wall. This will create a large entry closet w/ same pantry but moved up and then in the walkway I would install a butlers pantry. This will be a great place to add a beverage fridge.

W/D= washer and dryer

P= Pantry

O= oven/micro cabinet

R= Refrigerator

B= Butlers

Thanks Satvia, however I need to leave the laundry room as is, I have to have rooms for three dogs in there Plus with the dogs I cannot have a walk through butlers pantry...for obvious reasons. The dogs would be like "jackpot" and there would be dog hair in my pantry which is why it needs to stay contained...

"Should I add a 2nd island, or do conversation area"

No.

I don't care for the above suggestions that route traffic from entry and laundry through the kitchen work zones. Despite the needs of the three rescue dogs, I agree with all who suggested taking some space from the laundry/dog room. Here's my version of that idea:

ETA, the aisles in the plan above are narrow, but workable, IMO. If you can add another 2 1/2 feet to the right side, you could have French doors or a slider, as Jan M suggests below.

The entire dining area needs a four foot bump minimum. . End of story, since you like all else, just as is, are convinced you have adequate kitchen ,island and dining space. Which you do not ; ) Sorry, It's crowded on paper, will be crowded in actuality.

That would allow perhaps for sliding doors, versus the numerous swing.

Everyone realizes you're happy, it's for you. But when a dozen people, trained and untrained tell you the same thing? There ya go.

Steph, I hear you. I don't know the dimensions of your dining room table or the dining room space, but I can tell you that I have a 44" table in a 9' wide dining room. I stole a foot off the 10' dining room to add a wider counter so that I had additional prep space. Is it ideal, no. But normally there are only 1 or 2 people seated at the dining room table. The 6 times a year that I have my extended family over or several friends over at the same time it works. The space at the back of the table is slightly cramped. People can sit just fine with 30", but the person in the center cannot get up and out without others having to also get up. Then again, if we went out to eat your often stuck in a booth and have the same issue. The people who come to my house are good friends and family. They love me and know that I live alone and don't need the space on a regular basis. No one complains and truthfully, the same thing happens at several of their homes.

I would not suggest trying to get away with anything less than I have or people would not be able to sit comfortably at the table. I also would not suggest this small of a space if you are entertaining to impress.

At my last home I had an 8' x 3' counter without anything in it (no stove, no sink) just prep and serving space. When someone needed a dining room table I gave them mine because we never used it. We ate all of our meals at the counter and it was the gathering spot for friends and family. I had extra stools that could be used on the kitchen side of the counter when I had more than 4 people over for dinner. I could seat 8 at the counter. The 3 on the kitchen side of the counter just didn't have an overhang so you straddled the stools. Again, no one cared. It was about enjoying each other's company and sharing a meal together.

The experts know the rules and to have 8 people sit comfortably around a table and be able to get up and leave the table you need the recommended space around a table. I have 30" and many homes are built with 10' wide dining rooms, that only give an additional 6". Ideally you should probably have 12" and have 48" around the table for true comfort. My mother had that in her formal dining room. We never used that room. It ended up as the place to hang coats over the chairs and drop your school books. We used the big 6' round table in the family room off the kitchen. It was in a corner and once my dad was seated in the corner the kids gathered around the rest of the table. My dad was not able to get up, but he wouldn't have thought of leaving the table as long as there was still any of my mom's food left on the table.

Hope you are happy with your new home. Follow the rules when they apply to your lifestyle and budget. Bend where they don't fit.

By the way, I would not do a second island. I might push the first one out toward the living room another foot, giving a bit more space behind the counter.

and there would be dog hair in my pantry which is why it needs to stay contained...

Girl...If you figure out how to keep this from happening, even with it contained, Please let me know!!! HA!! I have a contained reach in pantry. 5 dogs, & 5 cats. Every time I open the pantry fluff flies out. Even after I've just swept!!

I love that you're making a room for your fur babies :)

By the way, I would not do a second island. I might push the first one out toward the living room another foot, giving a bit more space behind the counter.

I agree with this! :)

You've gotten great advice here, but at the end of the day, it's still your house, and you do you!

I love to read the comments though and rework things in my head!

Good luck!!

OP: You asked questions, got answers and good advice, then you basically told everyone, Thank you but I'm not changing anything so go away. If you have learned so much over a 25 yr period of DIY, why did you come here? You say you can't change the laundry room, the pantry, the kitchen, the dining room or anything it appears. And I wouldn't want any who "dabbles" to design my house. Dabble: " take part in an activity in a casual or superficial way. " A house design is too serious to leave to dabblers.

You do not have room for a second island. That area between your island and your living area is smaller than you realize.

Also, if you were concerned about dog hair in you pantry, I would definetly reconsider your plan to make the laundry room a place for your dogs as well as not making the laundry area a pass through from the garage (not sure if it is because the garage is not shown on the plan). When I do laundry, things fall on the floor (and I do sorting on the floor as well). I want my laundry room to be CLEAN and dedicated to one purpose. If the dogs are locked up in that area most of the day, there is going to be hair and dander and doggie “stuff” that will accumulate all over the floor and in the air (not to mention grit from paws etc.) I would definetly see if there was a way to make your laundry room a separate private space and not a doggie hangout.

Lori Wagerman-- off topic. Roomba is the answer :)

Hmmm.... seems peeps love our "Dabbles" Houses always sold like hotcakes.... but that little unnecessary nastiness aside in the spirit of this most generous and kind of seasons.

I showed all your ideas to the Drafter. After some long discussion here is a new plan. And please if you have nothing nice to say, just go away.

I am sure many of you understand, when you get involved in such projects that you actually live in you get very attached to your ideas and kind people as Satvia and Mark the Architect and many others gently guide you away.

Once again, I do greatly appreciate the kind comments and guidance provided here by the Pros and not so pros.

Ha ha, Mark the architect. I just noticed the 3 doggies on your drawing.. SWEET!

YESS!!! This is going to feel and live so much better.

Look forward to seeing photos of the space.

I am a bit unnerved by how far the powder room feels from the living space. This is only going to be an 1880 sq foot retirement home. We will only have the master on the first floor with its own ensuite, we will eventually build out extra bedrooms/bath living space in the daylight basement over time.

I should say 1880 sq ftfirst floor, daylight basement will double that

The bathroom and storage closet could easily flip places.

Would you bother, or just leave well enough alone?

If you are concerned with bathroom access you could give up some storage space and try this.

Ah ha!!! Now I just need the Drafter to come home.....

I’m sorry, but for functionality, I much prefer your original kitchen plan. Your new fridge placement puts it in the middle of a doorway (with the fridge doors open no one will be able to get by) and your sink and stovetop have now been moved further away from one another....do you really want to walk down an isle and around the island to drain a pot of pasta). I think it’s important to really analyze the way you cook and how you function in your kitchen. For me personally, I like to have my food prep area and sink close to my range so I’m not dribbling cut up veggies/food all over the floor because i have to bring it down kitchen isles and past an island to get it to the stove.

I’m not a pro and not sure if I was one of the people you would like to have go away, so I apologize for any unwelcome suggestions.

Nidnay, I would not consider this an "unwelcome" suggestions. You did not belittle me. :)

My island is HUGE, we are thinking of adding another smaller sink on the island to deal with food prep and pot drainage. the other sink can be for doing dishes. :)

Ok....so another little suggestion if you do a prep sink in your island. Don’t do what I did and get a ridiculously small prep sink. I can tell you from experience that a small one is almost a complete waste of plumbing and will frustrate you. I have a prep sink very close to my stove and every single day I wish it was larger. Overall it’s 17” but the interior length is 13” (interior measurement is what counts anyway). I would do no smaller than 21” (interior dimension) for a prep sink (I think overall that would normally be a 24” sink).

Here is the prep sink I have next to my stove. Love the placement, but it’s way too small to be fully functional :(

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Would cantilevering a 3-4’ addition to the dining room be an option for your steep lot? That way you can can maintain the basement footprint but still get a little more width to the dining area?

Nancy R, design for that done, will post when "the drafter" emails it to me. :)

Shead, thanks, will consider it.

Satvia

I'm liking where this is heading. There is always going to be some trade-offs in everything. You just have to decide which is better or worse.

In your last one I'd switch the powder room so you have a toilet and sink along the same wall ie facing the opposite wall and put them along the left vertical wall in your drawing no matter what. Then I'd also add an access door from the laundry to it, but that is only because of how we live it would be useful for my family's usage in daily life - ie leaving/coming home with kids who have to go or forget to go before we leave or come in from the outside and need to go. I know you have easy access to front door from outside, but it would give me two dirty areas to clean daily. Now having the access from the front door side will be nice when in the main part of the house during the day or when having guests so they don't have to walk into the laundry for access. Seems like your arrangement is the best of both worlds if you can accomplish that.

I'm not bothered by the fridge location. In our house even when there are 4 kids hanging around they wouldn't be in that area long enough to where it would be an issue with accessing the fridge. Not like anybody keeps the fridge open for very long. The only thing to consider is the traffic path into the house will be through the prep/cooking area. This is where you have to decide if it will bother you or not. With sometimes 4 kids hanging around my house that path is the shortest path so would be used and they wouldn't walk around the island. In my house I would consider it a potential accident waiting to happen. The worst I can think of is carrying a pot of pasta to drain and having someone collide with me.

On the other hand this arrangement allows you to be much more social while cooking as you are able to partially face the family room and also face the dining table.

If there was a way to rearrange and actually have the entry from the laundry be between the kitchen and family room that would keep the traffic out of the kitchen and also make access easier from all other parts of the house to the laundry as well. Meaning you don't have to take your laundry all the way through the kitchen to wash. It would be a closer walk to where the laundry comes from and needs to go in the end as well.

Here's a rough idea. You could put access from laundry to pantry for ease of putting groceries in too.

I've posted this before, but this is an opportunity to repost...when it comes to the number of islands, Hawaii seems to have figured it out...

omg.............. Thank god my installs are done and all I must do today is approve a stain for a floor. Celebrating the insane year with wine, and I think Virgil has a head start on me. : )

mimimomy

Lori Wagerman-- off topic. Roomba is the answer :)

LOL Thank you! It USED to be answer but the last one I had couldn't get around one room without being full... Way too much hair now!!

Laughing at Virgil! Well done.

Stef, I love the last version you posted, and I also love the idea of doors from both sides of the powder room!

This is good!! :)

What about moving the exterior garage entrance up a bit towards top wall, making it in line with the kitchen opening? This keeps your original L shape kitchen and maintains traffic out of work zones. Maybe a built in/reach in closet instead of the walk in along top wall?

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Also, would a banquet for dining space help to give a bit more room?

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Adjusted the powder room

Can you bump the dining space a few more feet to the right? So the dining table isn’t halfway on the living room wall(sorry, I can’t get away to draw it, hopefully this makes sense!)?

Not sure where you've ended up with your design, but I'll add this: I wish when we did a big reno I had built in space for pocket half doors to keep my sweet dog enclosed, but where I could see him. (e.g. between the kitchen and mudroom and between the kitchen and front room.) I use a wooden pet gate and shuffle some chairs around to keep him away from certain rooms when we have company (or when the mailman comes!) A few nice pocket half doors would be so much easier.

Also, check the specs for your intended refrigerator and make sure the wall next to it allows full door swing.

Consider how you will vent your cooktop.

Finally... ARG adds nice clouds, and Mark adds dogs! Love it!

The big red flag in your design for me is the island. Have you actually tried to reach across the island depth to clean? I'm not a fan of the wide curved island. If it were my island, I would lose the curvature and straighten it out into a rectangle. I would also decrease the depth so I could use 1 slab of countertop material and save some material/fabrication costs. In doing that, it would give you more walk space.