I didn't manage to upload the photos in the original post, so here you go:

Repot into a regular commercial mix. Keep it watered.

I agree, ditch the gritty mix.

Thanks for your input, everyone. I'll try and water the plant more often, I guess I was overly cautious here. Also I was a bit put off by the way the new shoots died off by turning into a moist and rather mushy brown instead of crisping. But maybe that's just how they die, I don't know.

Dave and Lucille: Could you elaborate a bit on why you think I should change the soil instead of just watering it more in the mix it's in?

While I agree that the 5:1:1 or similar would have been a better choice for this plant, I don't think the soil (gritty mix) is the actual source or cause of the problem. Given the soil you're using, the pot size, and the plant size, there should be an ample supply of water to allow for at least 5-day intervals between waterings, even in settings where humidity levels are extremely low. In my basement grow area where plants are under lights and relative humidity kept at 53-55%, I would probably be watering your planting, exactly as it is now, every 6-8 days. Because I'm primarily focused on bonsai, a very large % of my plants are in very small volumes of soil. I water most plants every 4 days, those in very small pots get watered every other day, and succulents get watered every 8 days.

How often are you watering? Does your house have an ionic exchange water softener (the kind that needs to be recharged with salt)?

You could water thoroughly, wait 2 days, then - while holding the pot in one hand and the plant in place with the other, tip the pot upside down so the mix empties into a pan or bowl. Is the soil that remains in the pot, or the soil on top of the pile in the pan still moist? With some of the soil removed, inspect the condition of the roots and examine the plant where it transitions from the stem to roots to see if there is a fungal issue impacting the plant's health there. If, when you inspect the roots, the soil seems too dry, you could water every other day (or repot) until summer when you can repot into a more water-retentive soil.

It's not generally a good idea to repot now because of how long it takes the root system to come back on line, but your plant has such a small volume of foliage that it shouldn't be a major issue, though recovery will still be much slower than it would be if you could do the work in summer. In this case, with the decline continuing, it would be better to intervene at this point and have a look at the roots than let the plant continue to decline and hope for the best. Mother nature is always going to side with the hidden flaw(s).

Al

Thanks for your comment Al, I appreciate you offering your time and experience to help me (and possibly other readers with similar problems) out. It's always a pleasure to read your extensive and thought-out posts, I've learned a lot from them so far.

"How often are you watering? Does your house have an ionic exchange water softener?"

I water with the wooden skewer method, so I can't tell you exactly. Being really strict with it and waiting for the skewer to come out completely dry the intervals were maybe around 6 days if I had to guess. Lately I was a bit more generous with water, but intervals never got shorter than 3 days. The house doesn't have a water softener and I suspect the water to be pretty hard around here. Could this lead to a build-up of minerals - even when watering always to the point of saturation?

Today was two days after the last thorough watering so I did as you proposed and inspected the more superficial roots. The plant seems to have developped a surprisingly extensive root system and they seem to be in great health. Roots are mostly firm, white and with fine hairs intact. The stems as far down as I could see were green and firm. I took some pictures of it that I can upload if it helps.

All but the most superficial layer of soil mix was still very moist so I held out from repotting the plant into the 5-1-1 mix just yet.

Next week I'll install growlights for some of my plants (succulents, herbs and hot peppers), I'm thinking maybe it'd help to let the Monstera have some of that too.

Thanks for the kind words, G. It's always gratifying to learn someone found some value in an offering.

Very often, those who have never grown anything in the gritty mix would be willing to swear under oath that in order to grow anything in it, you have to stand steadfastly over the pot with a watering can, else the soil immediately go dry if you stop pouring to take a phone call or answer the door bell. As you know, it's designed to hold much less water than other soils because appropriate screening all but eliminates perched water, the root cause (no pun ....) of a huge % (nearly all) over-watering issues. In order to bash the gritty mix for its inability, one has to ignore the fact that in order to increase water retention, all one has to do is vary the ratio of the mineral ingredients. 3 bark + 3 Turface + 3 grit = average water retention and is what I use as the base of all gritty mixes I use. If I want more water retention, I add enough Turface and bark so the ratio of ingredients is 3 bark, 4 Turface, and 2 grit. This increases water retention significantly w/o introducing perched water.

I didn't think your issue was related to water retention, because you had very little top growth to pull water through the plant. The sum of water lost from the soil by through evaporation and the process of transpiration is called evapotranspiration. A clay pot doesn't contribute to the total process of evapotranspiration that much, and with limited green mass, I expected your plants water needs would easily be met for a week or more per watering.

A healthy root system is a good sign. Can I assume you noticed nothing that looked suspiciously like a fungal issue in the transition zone from roots to shoots?

Build up of (bi)carbonates in the soil can impact/raise pH over time, but there is usually evidence of it's build-up on the soils surface. The evidence is particularly evident in soils with large mineral fractions, but that doesn't mean the problem is more critical - just more evident. If you're using FP 9-3-6, an acid-forming fertilizer, there should be no problem. I water from the hose all summer long with water from the tap at around 8.5 and have no problem. I DO see some precipitation of carbonates on the surface of gritty mix indoors during the winter, but I don't flush nearly as thoroughly in winter with a watering can as I do in summer with the hose; and when I move plants outdoors, the minor issue resolves itself - same as the 5:1:1.

I can't remember if we talked about fertilizing. If the roots are healthy, you can fertilize regularly at lower doses than you'd use in summer.

With healthy roots, and hopefully no evidence of fungal issues, I'd suggest all you need to do is keep the plant warm, give it lots of light, and put yourself on 'plant time', i.e., be patient.

Best luck - Merry Christmas if you celebrate it - Happy Holidays if you don't!

Al

.

Don't take my word for it, or even my photographic evidence. Let the hard work of the late, great Steve Lucas (who grew his own rainforest where there was none..) speak for itself:

"The leaf size of Monstera deliciosa can reach nearly 90cm (3 feet) but can be controlled by simply not watering the plant as often. The variations of this species may be somewhat smaller in size. Some websites claim the leaves can grow to 150cm (5 feet), but no scientific documentation to prove that size leaf blade can be found. If you like big leaves as much as I, then pour on the water! The plant grows in nature close to water and water tends to increase the plant's size."

http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Monstera%20deliciosa%20large%20pc.html

Yet again, not once have you bothered reading what I wrote. Typical...

*It's hard to fill a glass that is already full*

I never said not to use the mix that they had it in already, or what type of pot they should be using. I simply pointed out that this plant is not getting the water it so desperately needs.

Also, I only pointed out that I use a cacti and succulent soil, mixed with 50% orchid bark, planted in a plastic self-watering container. Not only that, but I let my plant soak quite regularly; more than any other plant I own, and it still soaks that water up like a sponge and dries out the very next day (during the hot summer months). Now, if mine is planted in a plastic self-watering that's designed to hold a small amount of water in the bottom reservoir and still dries out the very next day, then how is theirs going to react is a mix and pot that's designed to hold little, if any, moisture at all?

Well, considering the fact the most of its foliage has died back significantly, then it won't need as much water to support the foliage that it no longer has. Unlike others on here, I continue to provide sufficient evidence back up my claims. If people don't want to follow that advice, then no one's stopping them. Not once have I dictated how people should or shouldn't care for their plants, much less what they should or shouldn't plant them in. They asked for advice, and I gave them info that I use to grow mine successfully. Whether on not they decide to follow it is entirely up to them.

No one was talking to you, or about you that I noticed ........ so I'm not sure how you became a victim. Interesting that you brought up Steve, though. He and I have had many discussions on this forum and through email conversations. I think you'll find that Steve Lucas and I were pretty much exactly on the same page. Whenever it came to discussions about soils, and root health (essential to the o/a health of the entire organism), you'd find Steve's offerings peppered with comments like these (and you still can find them if you want to search):

"In a variety of links on this site Al offers very good porous soil mixes that can encourage an aroid to live a long time and grow to a larger size as well as remain healthy.

The correct mix and proper watering are far more important than the size of the pot ........

Al, can I suggest you post a link to some of your articles on soil?

Steve
Corresponding Secretary, The International Aroid Society"

"Again, I have to say I fully agree with Al's writings. Pot size is not nearly as important as soil mixtures and proper water (along with adequate light) are the most important factors to successful growth.

Like many things in house plant growth, pot size is not well understood nor well explained to many growers."

"I have spent a great deal of time studying this subject just as Al has, especially with botanists such as Dr. Tom Croat at the Missouri Botanical Garden and many others. I am also well aware that many people on this and other forums prefer that discussions not be based on science since this is a place where the average grower asks questions. I cannot help but believe many of those people want really good answers to their questions so again my thanks to Al."

"Whatever anyone chooses to do is their business. Any grower is entitled to do anything they choose to do but if my email is any indication there are tons of folks out there that want to know how to grow plants as they grow in nature. We receive about 1/2 million hits to our website every year from all over the world and most of them are seeking scientific answers just as Al provides."

"I just don't know how to explain things without explaining enough so a grower understands both the concept and the background provided by science. You can find some very good discussions on this forum about soil so if this is useless, please try to find a few of them now, mostly written by Al Tapla."

"Just a word of thanks for the information [Al]. I have agreed fully with Al's information for many years .....

Thanks again!

Steve Lucas
www.ExoticRainforest.com"

"Al, that is one of the finest growing statements I have ever read! I try to explain this all the time but you have made the statement concisely and quite clearly! Where do people come up with the idea plants "like" to be in such conditions? [root bound]

Thanks!

Steve"

There are many more .... and I used to email back & forth with Steve from time to time when he had questions or comments about soils. I wish he was still around so he could have offered input on some recent threads here. Steve was always well thought of, and I always appreciated his comments and support. Glad you brought him up - hadn't thought about him in a while.

Al

WoW! Color me impressed! I truly am in the presence of greatness; the "upper crust" of plant society, if you will.

Again, you blow out even more hot air, rather than bothering to read what it is that I wrote. Not once did I ever claim that you were talking to me, or about me, but you were passively aggressively referencing my advice and you know it:

"Very often, those who have never grown anything in the gritty mix would be willing to swear under oath that in order to grow anything in it, you have to stand steadfastly over the pot with a watering can, else the soil immediately go dry if you stop pouring to take a phone call or answer the door bell."

Unlike you, I offer reason-based evidence, while you spew out nothing but hearsay.

Not once did I ever claim that my way was the only way. Nor am I trying to claim that I am right, and that everybody else's methods are wrong. I just pointed out that their plant was dying of thirst, and you get all bent out of shape.

Again, I'm putting forth Steve's own advise, not my own. Surely, you must agree with him in his own assessment of what this plant needs. Yes? Being buddy buddies and all...

What do you have to offer? More hearsay?

Interesting conversation. Going back to the original post, though, this doesn't look like a watering/soil issue to me. This looks like something more drastic that occurred over a short time. OP where do you live? Could this plant have gotten damaged from cold either in the move or in its current spot (e.g. from a nearby door left open etc.)? Of course this is only applicable if you are in a part of the country where it is well below freezing. Alternatively could it now or at one time have been in front of a radiator or similar blowing hot air onto the plant? Could icy cold air be leaching in around the window.

The leaf damage doesn't look to me like the type that occurs from over/under watering on this plant. In fact, I have seen folks at my office torture Monsteras I gave them with no water for days/weeks/months. These plants look off, get limp, and the lowest leaves slowly die off one by one. Takes a while.

Is this plant getting enough light where it is now? What sort of neglect/conditions was it in during the transition?

If it were mine I would completely cut off the damaged leaves. Moisten the soil to the point it is thoroughly moist but not soggy, and put the whole plant inside a clear plastic bag. Make sure it is in bright light (but not direct sun which would cook it inside the bag) until the plant is rerooted and putting out new leaves. In a few weeks months when new growth was good I would slowly (over maybe two weeks) open the bag more and more to get the plant used to normal conditions again.

I have more than 500 followers, all because of my efforts to help others get more from the growing experience. I think that's a rather clear illustration that either I'm fooling a lot more people than the average forum participant, or quite a few people think I might know what I'm talking about. When I disagree with the advice someone offers, I state clearly why I disagree. Every time I offer an opinion that varies from yours this is what we end up with. You were so willing to take on the mantel of victim, claiming I was being passive aggressive, when I was talking about a period of time that goes back almost 10 years and lasted 4-5 years, and didn't even involve you. I was referring to a small group of people who somehow found a good deal of satisfaction in going from thread to thread, pushing buttons and disparaging both the 5:1:1 mix and the gritty mix for a number of reasons but particularly for a lack of water retention, which is untrue.

I'm perfectly happy to remain on topic always, and support what I say to the nth degree with science and sound reasoning. Disagreement can be an excellent source of information when folks present their case and point to any errors in reason or logic in others. That's how civil people debate. The issues arise when someone is so sensitive, they can't tolerate disagreement, or entertain the idea they might be wrong. Making a statement, then supporting it by getting angry and attacking someone else because they disagree doesn't count as support. I've said nothing in this thread that warrants the attack you've mounted, and the advice/commentary I gave was on topic and meant to be helpful.

No one slandered you; in fact, no one even disagreed with you in this thread, yet here we are ........

Al

So now i attacked you? HaHa, thats rich. Please point out to me where I criticized you or your growing practices before you chimed in and criticized mine. Because it seems to be eluding me. All I said was the plant needed watered and it escalates into this ridiculous nonsense.

I provide evidence with my advice. Evidence that's corroborated by that of Steve Lucas's very own knowledge. What do you provide? More hearsay? Hmm...

When you grow your own rainforest known the world over; one rivals that of Steve's, please let me know. At the very least, show us your gorgeous Monstera. I'm sure it's a beast by now, growing to its full genetic potential. Wait, what...? You don't even grow one? How interesting...

Precisely what I meant when I stated this particular quote in my second response in this thread: *It is hard to fill a glass that is already full.*

There are many posts on here for which I leave no responses because they deal with plants for which I have little to no experience with. I never said he didn't know his stuff, just like I've never criticized his growing methods as being wrong. I can see that they work for many people on here, even if I don't adhere to those methods myself. I simply offered up my own advice, based on what I know and what I've learned over the years. All I said was for the OP to water their plant because it's dying of thirst. Nothing else.

PS - I didn't reply to this thread initially in order to disagree with you. By relying on reason, i.e. the plant is using very little water (next to none) and the gas permeability of the clay pot can't account for enough added evaporation to move that much water out of the pot, and the experience of growing hundreds of species of plants in gritty mix over more than a 30 year span, I knew it wasn't an issue of under-watering. And based on what Galamathias said, it wasn't an over-watering issue.

• "Today was two days after the last thorough watering so I did as you proposed and inspected the more superficial roots. The plant seems to have developed a surprisingly extensive root system and they seem to be in great health. Roots are mostly firm, white and with fine hairs intact. The stems as far down as I could see were green and firm. I took some pictures of it that I can upload if it helps.
• All but the most superficial layer of soil mix was still very moist so I held out from repotting the plant into the 5-1-1 mix just yet."

If after 2 days nearly the entire soil mass was still wet and the root system was extensive, it couldn't have been under-watering - not even if there had been a recent oversight and G had skipped a watering. The reason, roots wouldn't appear healthy due to the fact G would have observed a significant volume of dead/slimy roots throughout the soil. G also did the right thing in choosing not to repot at this time. As noted, the 5:1:1 mix would probably have been the better choice for this plant, not because the gritty mix is inappropriate for this plant, but because it's overkill. IOW, plants with aggressive root systems that quickly fill the entire pot would benefit from an annual repotting, so there is no need for a soil that is made to retain its structure indefinitely. That combined with the knowledge that the roots are healthy and there isn't a watering problem pretty much eliminates any incentive to repot at this time.

From the beginning, instead of a watering issue, I suspected one of the fungaluglies to be in play. G says:

• "The newly sprouted leaves got plenty of dry brown spots and eventually turned yellow and wilted. The plant has continued to put out new leaves, however, every single one of them has gotten mushy/moist brown parts even before uncurling and subsequently died as well." and later adds,
• "I was a bit put off by the way the new shoots died off by turning into a moist and rather mushy brown instead of crisping."

Al

As a long time reader may I say

"essentially we all win by you two sharing your knowledge and collaborating.... Or keep arguing and proving each other are idiots, and only you individually benefit and win that scenario. "

says it very well!! w/ all due affection & respect.

Going back to the original topic, initially, the cuttings rooted successfully and began to grow. But then they endured a period of hardship and neglect:

"Ever since a short period of neglect due to my moving house and the subsequent environmental change its health has only gone downhill though. The newly sprouted leaves got plenty of dry brown spots and eventually turned yellow and wilted..."

Before any new growth had a chance to completely harden off, it is still susceptible to being underwatered. Which led to it drying out and dying back. I've seen this happen to many other types of Aroids when their newly emerged leaves are still tender and vulnerable. When the plants were watered again, the growth tips most likely had gotten wet when it was watered. Growing indoors, in an already weakened state, this proved to be a perfect breeding ground for any pathogenic fungi to gain a foothold:

"The plant has continued to put out new leaves, however, every single one of them has gotten mushy/moist brown parts even before uncurling and subsequently died as well."

This is when Galimathias comes here to post about their plant's dire situation. Going by the original photos, it's clear that its mix was bone dry. Which is where I commented that the plant wasn't getting the water it desperately needed. It wasn't until after this that they go ahead and water it again. Without the foliage there to soak up the water at a faster rate, of course it's not going to immediately dry out. That doesn't mean that the plant was "overwatered." I could've pointed out that they should avoid getting the foliage wet, but this whole thread spiraled into nonsense before I even had a chance to. That's when Al insinuated that I was suggesting to stand over it with a watering can and water it nonstop. The rest is history; ancient history, for all I care. As far as I'm concerned, this thread has run its course.

Hi everyone again and thanks again for all your comments. Even though the discussion has become a tad heated it proves to be a fertile learning ground for less experienced growers like me. Sorry for taking so long to get back to everyone, I'll try to answer some of the questions that have come up.

Al: Can I assume you noticed nothing that looked suspiciously like a fungal issue in the transition zone from roots to shoots?

Indeed I didn't, even though I might not have known exactly what to look for. I didn't see any mushy or slimy roots, just some dried out ones where they broke through the soil line. I also didn't dig any further than where the soil fell out with minimal manipulation as I didn't want to disturb the roots if I could help.

Here's what that looked like:

I can't remember if we talked about fertilizing. If the roots are healthy, you can fertilize regularly at lower doses than you'd use in summer.

I use a 10+4+7 fertilizer and add epsom salt (+ there's gypsum in the soil). This was the closest in ratio to the fertilizer you commonly recommend that I could find around here. Right now fertilizing frequency would be around every 4th watering or so, maybe even more sparingly as of late.

Woodnative:

I thought about heat or cold drafts damaging the plant and indeed conditions in the appartement aren't optimal. But I'd say the plant is reasonably far away from my electric radiators as well as slightly drafty windows. I do air out the room it is in regularly but again, it isn't in the direct way of sustained cold drafts. I live in central europe and during the move temperatures where far from freezing. Neglecting around that time consisted mostly of irregular watering schedules and a leaf or two nicked.

What would I hope to achieve with the plastic bag around the pot? As I said, the roots right now are looking rather healthy and extensive.

Photo Synthesis:

It's true that it was mostly newer leaves that dried and died off and old growth hanging on well. But the initial pictures are misleading with regards to the soils moisture content. There's a small layer at the top that always dries out really fast and gives it that "bone dry" look, but just underneath the soil stays moist for a pretty long time. Even before I started watering a bit more frequently following your advice intervals where at most at about 5 days with maybe once going to 7 days - which should still leave some moisture deep in the pot judging from my last foray down there.

I'll try and keep the leaves and leaves' tips dry while watering now!

So if it's really a fungal issue, how would I know and could I resolve that? For now the plan is to keep it well watered, out of cold drafts and to put it under some growlights when I receive them next week.

Thanks again everyone and happy holidays!

As you can see, the fungal issues were near the tips where new growth emerges from and not down in the root system. The stem and roots that were under the soil line still looks perfectly healthy and viable. The problems you were having were most likely from getting the foliage wet when you watered, and not because you watered it. These plants can easily handle lots of water. Although, for the time being, it won't need as much without any foliage to readily absorb it. Once new foliage starts to grow from it, then you can water it more often.

For now, I would prune back any infected sections of the stems, until you see only healthy tissue. Dust the pruned tips with ground cinnamon and keep them dry until they have had sufficient time to heal up and callous over. Keep it in a warm spot and wait for new growth to emerge. These plants aren't called monsters for no reason. It can bounce back from this ordeal and grow as if nothing has ever happened to it.

Also, in the future, you won't have to worry about disturbing the roots. These plants don't mind it one bit. Back when I repotted mine, there was no chance of untangling the roots, so I just chopped off perhaps two-thirds of the root mass and did my best to loosen up what was left of them. This didn't phase it one bit and it completely filled in the whole pot yet again.

I went to move mine the other day and I noticed that the saucer which holds the water reservoir had cracked. So I took it off to replace it with a new one. The whole entire reservoir was filled in with roots growing out of the bottom of the pot. I had to cut some of them back just to be able to snap the replacement saucer back onto the pot. I wish I had taken a picture of it, because I always keep the reservoir filled up with water, and my plant soaks it up like there's no tomorrow.

Dave and Lucille: Could you elaborate a bit on why you think I should change the soil instead of just watering it more in the mix it's in?

I do not think gritty mix is the answer to everything, and while fast draining porous mixes are beneficial, some of my plants do better with a bit more peat. If you search you will see others have come to that same conclusion, but it is difficult to have a discussion because of the personalities involved, I've tried and was mocked for my contributions to the conversation.

G - given your plant has a healthy root system and a very small volume of foliage the roots need to support, there is no reason to bag the plant. Plants are bagged to limit the amount of water lost via transpiration when the root system is unable to move enough water to support existing or new top growth. Obviously, that issue is not in play here.

Just in case there is something nutritional going on - when you mixed the Epsom salts (Es) into the water you were using, what volume of water did you use, how much Es did you use, and were you fertilizing at the same time? Does your fertilizer list either ca(lcium) or Mg (magnesium) as an ingredient? Does it contain micronutrients? They would be listed as Fe, Mn, Cu, B, Zn, Mo, Cl, Ni.

To me, it looks like the plant has contracted any one of the many fungal infections that are commonly grouped under the umbrella of "damping off disease".

Al

Al: I use about half a teaspoon Es per 4 litres, always mixed with fertilizer. Myfertilizer has neither Ca nor Mg but it does list micronutrients (B, Cu, Fe, Mn, Mo, Zn).

I've only ever heard of "damping off" in the context of seedlings, how does it typically present with a mature plant? Does it only affect newly emerging leaves? How would I treat the plant?

Photo Synthesis: Your suggestion of pruning back diseased parts and dusting with cinnamon powder seems sensible, I guess I'll do that. Also, nice to hear about the plants (usual) hardiness. I'm already not squeamish when root pruning so I'll go to town with it once it's time to repot my plant ( it still being alive for that long).

Damping off is a fungal infection caused by any of at least 15 different fungal pathogens. If you want to do some research, the major players are Pythium, Rhizoctonia, Phytophthora and Fusarium. The plant is usually first affected in the root to shoot transition zone. I don't think the reason the new leaves are dying has anything to do with how you watered in the past, nor do I think the issue is localized to the point only new leaves are infected. The plant, considering the organism as a whole, is currently not healthy as it's unable to sustain new growth in a viable state. When that occurs, there is usually a biotic pathogen at work.

Several of the 'damping off' fungi also cause vascular wilt disease, which is what I suspect to be the issue with your plant. When the pathogen enters the vessels in the xylem (which supplies the top of the plant with water and nutrients) and multiplies, the end result is the blockage of the vessels, followed by wilting then death of leaves, followed by involvement and death of the whole organism. It's extremely common in cuttings, which is why I try always to stress cleanliness and assert that when you are trying to get a cutting to strike, you're actually in a race to get a connection between newly forming roots and the shoot's vasculature before the fungaluglies clog up the plumbing. Older plants that become infected often remain viable for a period after infection but usually die. Often, seemingly healthy basal shoots or leaves will occur, only to collapse from the infection after a short time when the pathogen spreads systemically into the new growth.

Plants are organisms that tend to wall off injuries and decay so it can't spread throughout the plant. Use the search words CODIT "Alex Shigo" for more about how plants that eventually lignify (grow woody) wall off injury. Surprisingly, it's not the pathogen that clogs the vessels, it's the gelatinous material produced by the plant as the beginning of a potential barrier to the spreading of the pathogen that occurs when the plant senses the invasion. Too, the pathogens have very limited ability to invade healthy tissues. They reside in the plant's water conducting plumbing until the plant is so weakened by water stress it it can no longer mount a defense.

Al

Thanks Al, that was really interesting.
I'm a physician and I always find it fascinating to see evidence of how our physiology and pathophysiology is really not that fundamentally different from our green relatives. Like how animals will occasionally find walling off (like plants do in CODIT) to be the most viable - or only - way to control an infection (e.g. abscesses or TBC granulomas). Or the whole thing about the ability to fend off (opportunistic) infections/infestations as a function of overall vitality levels you reference over and over.

But to get back to the topic at hand:

"Older plants that become infected often remain viable for a period after infection but usually die. Often, seemingly healthy basal shoots or leaves will occur, only to collapse from the infection after a short time when the pathogen spreads systemically into the new growth."

That's the most fitting description of what I have seen happening with my plant. And while you have avoided spelling it out so far (or well, maybe you did: "followed by involvement and death of the whole organism") my conclusion is that what I have at hand is a systemic infection that is too advanced now to be controlled. Sooo, aside from sitting the plant under some lights and hoping for a miracle I guess I should look at getting another set of cuttings from the mother plant for a second try...

Which leads me to my next set of questions:

- Can these fungal pathogens survive outside a host for some time? As in: Can I reuse the pot and soil mix for the new cuttings or do I have to treat them in some way beforehand (with heat for example)? Right now I feel like just letting them dry out completely should suffice.

- Can you give me a quick reminder for the correct handling of cuttings? I remember the following:

• Make clean cuts with a sharp blade to avoid jagged or crushed edges
  (another parallel to human medicine) and sprinkle the cuts with cinnamon
• Be sure to include at least one node of the trunk for each cutting.
• Cut leaves in half to reduce foliage that has to be supported.
• Plant immediately in soil (I'll use the 5:1:1 mix now) and water daily until enough roots have formed. Hold back fertilizer until there's new growth.
• After taking the cuttings I won't be able to plant them for a day and I'll have to transport them. What would be the best way to handle that? Wrap the cut ends in a clean paper towel? Dry or wet?

Thanks,

G

G - for some reason your most recent post shows up in the 'Activity' tab on my user page, but not here. I sort of deduced you were in some manner a part of the medical care community by way of your phraseology.

Edited to say: The lost post showed up around 5PM Christmas Eve - strange, that.

.... I always find it fascinating to see evidence of how our physiology and
pathophysiology is really not that fundamentally different from our
green relatives. Like how animals will occasionally find walling off
(like plants do in CODIT) to be the most viable - or only - way to
control an infection (e.g. abscesses or TBC granulomas). Or the whole
thing about the ability to fend off (opportunistic)
infections/infestations as a function of overall vitality levels you
reference over and over. I see many similarities as well, even with my pitifully limited knowledge compared to yours, and it makes me tend to want to draw parallels and comparisons between plants and animals. The problem with doing that, even if the equivalence offers a path to instant understanding, is, a lot of folks know what anthropomorphism is and have often point to it as a logical fallacy. I often refer to and get away with using phrases like 'plant central and its chemical messengers' because it saves a ton of writing and I'm pedantic enough as it is. I use those terms to convey the idea that, for the most part, plants' responses to their world are more orderly (until they can't be) than it would seem. To illustrate that I'm intentionally being anthropomorphic, I usually recognize it in advance by setting the word/phrase apart with "quotes" or an 'apostrophe', which seems to work reasonably well.

But to get back to the topic at hand: Yes .......

"Older plants that become infected often remain viable for a
period after infection but usually die. Often, seemingly healthy basal
shoots or leaves will occur, only to collapse from the infection after a
short time when the pathogen spreads systemically into the new growth."

That's the most fitting description of what I have seen happening
with my plant. And while you have avoided spelling it out so far (or
well, maybe you did: "followed by involvement and death of the whole organism")
my conclusion is that what I have at hand is a systemic infection that
is too advanced now to be controlled. Sooo, aside from sitting the plant
under some lights and hoping for a miracle I guess I should look at
getting another set of cuttings from the mother plant for a second
try... I'm not sure what additional info you're looking for, but: For vascular wilt diseases, think of the xylem as where the battle takes place. Vascular wilts can also be bacterial or caused by water molds (oomycetes). Usually the pathogen enters through a compromised root or through cracks that often form at root laterals, but there are several other POEs, like stomata, hydathodes, insect penetrations, grafting, notching, poor pruning practices .....

Even though both xylem and phloem are accessible to the pathogen, and the phloem is rich in sugars, it usually 'chooses' xylem tracheary elements that provide a nutritionally poor environment. It's widely thought that this occurs because the high osmotic pressure of living phloem cells makes penetration difficult. Symptoms of the disease are usually made manifest acropetally, which is why I wasn't convinced the disease was localized in the termination of the foliage.

Which leads me to my next set of questions:

- Can these fungal pathogens survive outside a host for some time? Definitely. Spores can survive (even over-winter outdoors) in soil, plant debris, dead host tissues (bark, .....) an infected water source, in insect vectors. Spores can also form a hard mass that includes a food source, and the pathogen can survive as mycelium/ hyphae. As
in: Can I reuse the pot and soil mix for the new cuttings or do I have
to treat them in some way beforehand (with heat for example)? Right now I
feel like just letting them dry out completely should suffice. Given the persistence of the pathogen, you shouldn't reuse the soil or the pot w/o treating it. I would clean the pot thoroughly and soak in a .05% solution of water/sodium hyperchlorite (9 parts water: 1 part household bleach @ 5.25% so-hypo). Rinse thoroughly and allow to dry in full sun. You can reuse the soil w/o worry about fungal infections if you bring a pot of water to a boil, add the soil, cover the pot, return water to a boil, turn the burner off and allow to cool w/o removing the lid, strain, allow to dry.

- Can you give me a quick reminder for the correct handling of cuttings? I remember the following:

• Make clean cuts with a sharp blade to avoid jagged or crushed edges
  (another parallel to human medicine) and sprinkle the cuts with cinnamon. Best to use something razor sharp - I'm thinking scalpels, for you. I normally use a straight edge razor blade (I buy in boxes of 100) or any of 3 high carbon steel tools I keep sharp on a 3,000 grit water stone to way beyond shaving sharp.
  For better results, skip the cinnamon - flowers of sulfur is widely available and much more effective as a fungicide. No need to use anything else on propagules if you're using a rooting aid that includes a prophylactic fungicide.

• Be sure to include at least one node of the trunk for each cutting. Depending on the distance between nodes, 2-3 nodes beneath the soil line is best. At least 2 nodes above the soil line is a good call, too. If one of the distal nodes fail to push a branch from the leaf axil, you have a spare/spares. If you want a single stem and you see more than one axillary branch, rub one off after roots are established enough that you won't be breaking a bunch of roots if the propagule is disturbed, rub one axillary branch off (or snip with sharp scissors) and retain the preexisting leaf for the time being (food factory). I use mostly gritty mix for cuttings, and the uppermost of the nodes covered by soil will tend toward going dry unless the propagule is tented, you're diligent about spritzing (the soil) to keep the top moist, or you covering it (soil). I often cut a slit in Al foil and fashion a loose cover from that in order to ensure the entire soil mass remains moist. If ever you're using a medium that supports a perched water column, please to be sure the proximal end of the propagule is not submerged in the perched water (hypoxia/ anoxia).

• Cut leaves in half to reduce foliage that has to be supported. This is often a judgment call, but it's better to err on the side of too much reduction of foliage rather than not enough. The drought stress can cause abscission of ALL of the foliage, which is very counterproductive and to be avoided. You'll often hear that NO foliage should be removed, but those with a long history of repotting and propagation know that you have to be able to adjust your thinking at times, so there is no hard/fast rule when it comes to adjusting the volume of foliage to arrive at the desired end.

• Plant immediately in soil (I'll use the 5:1:1 mix now) and water
  daily until enough roots have formed. Hold back fertilizer until there's
  new growth. Depending on the plant material, it's sometimes better to wait for callus to form over the wound before you stick the propagule. For instance, dormant deciduous cuttings, most evergreen cuttings, and a good measure of succulents do best by waiting an appropriate interval for that plant. I've pruned Aeonium in Feb and left the snippings on a paper towel on the basement work bench. Roots grew from the stems and the snippings too right off in mid-May when I decided they'd earned the right to remain viable by virtue of their mulishness.
• After taking the cuttings I won't be able to plant them for a day
  and I'll have to transport them. What would be the best way to handle
  that? Wrap the cut ends in a clean paper towel? Dry or wet? A moist paper towel in a bag or simply lay the cuttings on their side and cover with the moistened medium you intend to use.

Whew! You really made me think!I hope that was what you were looking for.

Al

Thanks, that was a very interesting read again! If/when the current plant finally succumbs I'll make sure to treat pot and soil like you have described before reusing them.

In the end I didn't get around to take new cuttings from the mother plant this time but I will certainly do that soon and it's great to have your advice concerning cuttings concentrated here to look it up then - definitely what I was looking for, thanks for that.

I'll try to make an update about my current and/or future Monstera plant when there's anything interesting to say ;)

Happy growing in the meantime!

Good health and much prosperity in the coming year ......

Al