please provide constructive feedback on home layout

5 years ago

The following is a layout of a four bedroom three bath home we are working on from an existing ranch. The left is a new master bedroom and bath where there was originally a den. The guest bedroom in the back of the house will be used as a gym/ spa wellness room opening to the backyard and pool. We also have a finished basement where the tv and bar will probably be. Goals are for indoor/outdoors living and open concept. The plans show our intent to remove a wall that was dividing the living and kitchen. Some concerns are: lack of entrance to remove shoes and small master closet but understand that we may need to leave be or edit. Thank you in advance!

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Mark Bischak, Architect

5 years ago

last modified: 5 years ago

" . . . our intent to remove a wall that was dividing the living and kitchen."

I have one word for you, "Structural Engineer".

(yes, there is suppose to be some humor in there, and mostly very serious)

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Comments (13)

emilyam819
5 years ago
Are you planning on a table? I’d reduce the island. Too big for the space.

Do you need three full baths? Do you have laundry anywhere?

And I’d lose the tub in the master in favor of more closet space, even if it was only for linens. You don’t have a lot of closets... how many people living here? How much is within the scope of the project? More info would help.
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DON'T PANIC! It's going to be ok - if you're looking at framing with a 3 foot rough opening, it gets more "door frame" tucked in and may end up being another size. If you are measuring the current opening and its not a pocket door, your contractor can close up a bit of it when re-framing for the pocket door. You can get a bit by reducing the oven cabinet down to the absolute minimum. You could easily be looking at losing less than a foot. If it does come to that, I think the reduction in the baking center will be ok. I really think you won't use the baking center as a "baking center", but as a simple storage area and for overflo cooling. Doing assembly and mixing will be easier on the end of the island and that's what I think you'll use. I think so because of the better access to water, better lighting, better available space without things overhead and doesn't have the stools behind you occupied by wiggle rats. If the wiggles are cooking, you'll probably have them use the island so you can see what they're doing.
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You have a good space with a lot of floorspace to work with! Here's an idea. As you an see in the Zone map below, this layout allows you to have several people working in the kitchen at one time. Other notes: All perimeter counters are 28.5" deep. The extra 3" adds workspace and allows you to have deeper upper cabinets. All perimeter cabinets are 27" deep, if you can get them. If not, then pull them out approx 3" from the wall. Note the DW is not 27" deep - but with the extra inches behind it, it provides more space for water lines, etc. All uppers are 15" deep. The refrigerator is on the perimeter and near the Morning Room. It is next to the Prep Zones and the Cooking Zone - where you will need it the most. Is the Morning Room going to be used for table space? Or, will it be a "sitting room"? It appears to have benches and shelving, so can't tell what it will be used for. Cleanup Zone: The Cleanup Zone is on the "bottom" wall It is separated from the Prep and Cooking Zones so that you can have someone cleaning up and/or loading/unloading the DW while others are prepping and cooking. It includes a Dish Hutch with a 15-inch deep upper cabinet that goes to the counter. The extra depth will accommodate dinner plates and, perhaps platters. Dish Hutches hold a lot of dishes - in many cases they can hold all your everyday dishes and glasses. The DW is situated such that it will not be an obstacle to traffic entering the kitchen from the bottom or leaving the DR from the kitchen end Prep Zones & Baking Center: The primary Prep Zone is in the island. It has plenty of workspace as well as a water source. The secondary prep zones flank the cooktop. Probably the most useful space for a secondary Prep Zone is "below"/to the right of the cooktop. The primary Prep Zone has over 4 feet of workspace on one side of the sink and around 20 inches on the other side so you have some landing space. The larger secondary Prep Zone has over 6.5 feet of workspace. The sink on the island is situated so that it can be used for filling/emptying pots. I left the ovens on the lower wall b/c it's better not to directly block a doorway with a hot oven door if you can help it - and you can. Do you bake? If so , the 6.5 feet to the right of the cooktop could be your Baking Center. It has plenty of counter space for rolling dough, etc. as well as space for the pans/cookie sheets to be right there. The "Baking Center" is also near the ovens - so it will be easy to b/w the Baking Center & the ovens. The primary Prep Zone contains the trash pullout. The trash pullout is also across from the Cooking Zone. The trash pullout is easily accessible from the island Prep Zone, the Cooking Zone, and the Baking Center/secondary Prep Zone. Cooking Zone & Right Wall: The Cooking Zone is across from the primary...
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Overall, it's a pretty good layout - once you move the Cleanup Zone off the island and the Prep Zone onto the island. . Some things to note: Regarding aisle widths...aisle widths are measured counter edge-to-counter edge or counter edge-to-appliance handle -- basically, b/w items sticking out the farthest into an aisle. Your layout appears to be measuring cabinet-to-cabinet, which means your aisles are at least 3" narrower than you think. You need to account for the door & counter overhangs - usually around 1.5". So, b/w the range wall and the island, you really have only 45" counter edge-to-counter edge and even less b/c the range door and handle stick out even further. Refrigerator and Freezer...are they built-in? If not, they will stick out further into the aisle than you show. Most counter-depth refrigerators are actually around 30" deep (then you need an inch or more behind it for air flow, power cord, water line). The only "counter depth" part of a counter-depth refrigerator is the refrigerator box/carcass. The doors must stick out past the surrounding items (walls, counters, cabinets) to open fully and allow you full access. Some of the higher-end CD refrigerators are closer to being true counter-depth as are built-ins. I don't know which you have, but I wanted to bring it up b/c it will impact your actual aisle width. (Standard depth are usually around 36" deep.) Table and island aisle...be sure you have at least 60" (5') b/w the island counter and the table behind it. You need to have room for people sitting in both locations and have room for (1) seating at both island and table and (2) someone to pass b/w them. Prep Zone on island...As others have said, you generally do not want to center the prep sink on the island. One of the biggest advantages of an island or peninsula is the wonderful extensive workspace they provide - and accessible from multiple sides. You don't want to break that up with a sink stuck in the middle. In addition, Prep Zones should have a minimum of 36" of clear workspace - and 42" to 48" are much better. Prep Sink Location...Whether you put the sink all the way over on one end is personal preference. Some people like it on the corner b/c then they can access it from two sides. However, having landing space on both sides will give you more landing space options and prevent accidentally pushing things off the counter onto the floor, That space will also minimize splashing water onto the floor. ... My preference is at least a 15" cabinet on one side of the sink (18" are better) and then at least 42" on the primary working side, Prep Sink Size...the interior of the prep sink should be at least 15"x15", which means an 18" sink base. If you have the space, then one at least 18" wide is recommended (21" sink base). If you have a lot of space, I would go for one that fits in a 24" sink base. Seating overhangs...should be a minimum of 15" of clear knee/leg space after accounting for cabinets and decorative doors/end panels. Note that this space cannot be shared by two seats on a corner - each seat needs its own 15" of space. You appear to have 17" (18" - 1" for cabinet doors = 17") and no shared corners, so you should be fine. Seating space...each seat needs at least 24" of linear space. So, for 4 people, the island should be at least 8' wide. This is assuming you don't have island legs, etc. getting in the way. Space taken up by island legs do not count toward the space needed for a seat. In addition, with legs, you need a few more inches to allow someone to maneuver in/out of a seat with the island leg in the way. Your island is 10' long, so 4 seats are OK. If you want to add 4" legs, I would not add anything more than a leg on each end. As to using legs to separate seats - first, it doesn't work to keep kids from fighting; second, you are drastically reducing the flexibility of that seating by constraining seats to one small space; and third, you will need to add another couple of feet to the island to accommodate the legs. Some things sound good at first thought, but when thinking through all the ramifications, they aren't always that great overall.
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If I were to give up the prep sink on the island, and I'm assuming you don't want to move it to the perimeter and have the cleanup sink on the island (I'm doing that but most people prefer not to have their cleanup sink on the island) then I'd do the following, which is to switch the sink and the cooktop. The disadvantage is if you still want two dishwashers, you'll lose pantry space. If you can get away with one dishwasher, then you'll be fine. However I personally think Mama's arrangement is a heck of a lot better and allows for more than one person cooking at the same time. This arrangement doesn't.
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Jisun1
Original Author
5 years ago
Thanks you all for your feedback! Yes we knew we would need to have structural engineer as the wall is load bearing and we are working on opening the roof. It is the two of us. Laundry is in the basement. One bathroom would be accessible to outdoors via glass door to exercise room and the other from the inside hallway. We thought that would be functional for our purposes and entertaining. Our initial intention was to forgo formal dining for the island and bring out a table to the side as needed which would be infrequent. We are minimalists in terms of possessions but may revisit with our architect to take a little back from bathroom for a little more closet space. Towels would be stored under floating shelf under sink once we get to more of the design stage.
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Hal Braswell Consulting
5 years ago
Built-in closet · More Info

For the reach-in closets, get rid of the returns and the wall above the closet doors. Create floor to ceiling built-ins with drawers at the bottom and butt doors at the top. This will provide not only much more accessible space, but more efficient space as well. Incorporating drawers should eliminate the need for dressers or chest of drawers, thereby saving bedroom floor space. Obviously some of your closets are only half a wall wide but same principle applies. This photo is from Spaces Inc.
zmith
5 years ago
Can we see the existing floor plan?

Do you plan on having a TV in this living room?

The public side of the two-sided fireplace is in a spot where it will never be enjoyed by anyone.
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Sina Sadeddin Architectural Design
5 years ago
Pretty poor design overall. If the goal is indoor outdoor living flow this plan definetly does not achieve that at all. None of the main living spaces open to the outdoors. So what, guests have to go through the gym to get there? Not ideal.

Then you don't even have a dining place. An island doesn't count as a main dining space IMO. Every home needs one place for a decent sized table. Also, you only have the island for eating but put the stove there? Again not ideal. The stove should be on an exterior wall at least.

The home has not real functionality. All the main daily living activities are shoved into the basement. You have your master off the garage (not ideal), the living room will be difficult to layout, no storage, and no real entrance. This would be a complete do over for me.
Jisun1
Original Author
5 years ago
Thanks for continued comments. The floor to ceiling closets are a
nice idea. The fireplace wall and main hallway walls are original. A wall and staircase between the kitchen and living were also original before the presented draft. We do not have a original floor plan document though I can try to sketch one up. Of the dual fp the one facing main living/ kitchen is a hearth. The other side is wood burning fireplace and was originally a den with door to garage. We wanted a master away from guests so decided to convert the room and add bath. I do admit at first I thought a cooktop on island was strange but then it made sense for us since many of our dishes are shared/ eat as you cook. There are plans for large sliders in back of house from kitchen. We would only have tv in the basement.
PRO
Mark Bischak, Architect
5 years ago
Remodeling/additions are unique, and most times, beasts and should be designed and advised by someone that can be at the site to gather and evaluate the plethora of information that effects all design decisions. In other words, present your questions and concerns to the Architect you have engaged in your project for the best answers.
just_janni
5 years ago
You have a lot of "no mans' lands" in the kitchen, living, master area. You could dance in front of your master bed placement - but to me that's wasted square footage. That area to the left of the huge island is completely wasted and not insignificant.

The island needs to be shrunk - there's not room for 6 there, and the people sitting around the corner can't occupy the same space. Besides - sitting that many people around a cooktop just doesn't work. Shrink the island and get a proper table in that space. At least then someone would be close enough to enjoy that fireplace.

Is the basement all below grade? is the main level at ground level to foster that indoor / outdoor relationship? If so - then agree on the bath accessible from the outside - but it it's up in the air - it won't get used. If the basement is all blow grade -I tend to agree with the statement that you are pushing too many "daily" activities below grade.
rockybird
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
I agree that the island should shrink, at least by a foot width and length wise. It’s too bad you cant get a table in there.

I’m not sure how much work you are doing - if it’s a gut job or if you want the plumbing to stay where it is. If it’s a gut job, could you move a bathroom to the wellness space closet? Then you could buy a little more space in the kitchen. I’d get rid of the bathtub in the master and move the sink over, then add a closet there. You could probably shorten the shower a little and make the counter longer too. I’d put a bathtub in a guest bathroom so you have one elsewhere.

I have an open entry like that. At first it bothered me, but now I’m used to it. The air bnb we stayed at in Palm Springs was a beautiful midcentury home and it also had an open entry. We didnt even notice it.

I have my cooktop on the island and it is fine.

I’m assuming the thing between the master and the kitchen is a fireplace?
Jisun1
Original Author
5 years ago
We have had contractor and architect to the house and limited to keeping the overall footprint. So basically a gut renovation not rebuild or new build which would be great in another state, but not practical in our nj area.
So shrinking the island seems like a good idea and having a table. The floor is level with the backyard and pool area so going through the glassdoor to sauna/ gym room to bathroom makes more sense than having people go around to the hallway bath. The finished basement is below ground level. We actually prefer to have the tv as not the focus on main level. The dual sided fireplace/ hearth prevents us from relocating that wall to the master bedroom. We prefer small bedroom and open layout, minimal furniture, natural light in living and kitchen area.
David Cary
5 years ago
Speaking from an area of the country where we can do new builds.....

There are so many things to dislike about this plan - agree with comments on cooktop and island.

Can you drop the fireplaces? Such a huge waste of room and is really strangling your layout.

You can throw one somewhere else if you feel the primal desire to have fire in a living space.

As a buyer (who admittedly would never be in your area) I would walk right out because of problems with the floor plan. I am currently living in a mid 1980s build that has a way more functional floor plan. But it is still frustrating. 3 weeks to move in on new build!
User
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
You needs much better architect or a different house. Spending the $$$$$ money to do this level of a project, only to end up with that plan, is a huge scam by a builder and home designer. They're getting paid to ruin your house and you're left with an unlivable and unsellable end result.

You need a better design professional. Or this might be the wrong house for you.

please provide constructive feedback on home layout

Mark Bischak, Architect

Comments (13)

emilyam819

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please provide constructive feedback on home layout

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