It looks like you have a cooktop and microwave on one side along with the exhaust fan. You have the oven on the opposite wall. How will you exhaust the oven? My kitchen has the fan about 4' from the oven and it does not clear steam or smoke. What software was used?

I think the layout looks great!

All of the detail looks well thought...on your way to a very
comfy, warm and friendly kitchen! It will be wonderful.
vic

One point...you still will not be able to seat 4 at the island as shown. The two people at the corner are sharing leg/knee space.

Additionally, the recommended spacing is 24"/seat. Right now, you are cramming 2 seats in approx a 39" space...7" short of what is recommended. If you have small people, it will probably be OK, not ideal or the most comfortable, but OK.

What you have available for seating:

Seating part of long end: 15" overhang + 15"W cab + 18"W sink base = 48"
Short end: 1" overhang + 15"D cab + 24"D cab + 1" overhang = 41"

Diagrams of what you propose & what you can realistically expect for seating:

Your proposal: Note the overlap

Realistically, what you can fit: Option A would be the most comfortable for your visitors.

oops...correction...41" space! (I got the 7" right, just forgot to correct the 39 to 41!)

Isn't Rhome the best!!!!

Looks pretty good to me. My only question is if you feel you might be running back and forth from the cooktop to the ovens if you are using both appliances at the same time. Cooking on the cooktop, yet wanting to check on something in the oven. If this is not a concern, I think it looks great!

Thanks for the replies. It is nice to get some positive feedback after so much time spent trying to get this right!

Buehl, thank you for pointing out the shortage of knee space. I don't think I can squeeze any more width out of the island, so I'm okay with it as is. Most often it will be kids sitting at the island, so I'll probably have 4 stools there for them. When entertaining for adults, 3 seats will have to do. Option A it is! :)

One more quick question...Does anyone think it looks awkward to have the hutch height lowered, but the cabinets on the other side of the window up to the ceiling? The kitchen is open to dining and living rooms, so the window wall is always directly visible. I thought it would be okay since the hutch looks more like a piece of furniture than like the rest of the cabinets. Any thoughts?

Yes, malhgold, Rhome is the BEST!

Your concern about running back and forth from ovens to cooktop is a valid one, but I think I'm willing to take that risk. I've had such a time trying to find a good placement for those ovens, and that is the best I've come up with. Plus, I get that neat-o baking center next to the ovens there! :)

I have to agree with Malhgold. I think it's too far from the ovens to the range. It's just me and DH and I'm certainly not a gourmet, but it would be too much space between the two for me. Sorry if this has been suggested before, but what about switching the refrig and pantry to the oven wall and put the oven on the end run of the rangetop wall?

Barb

I'm almost embarrassed to chime in...All I can say is that it's a genuine pleasure to help those who appreciate it! You know it's fun for me to see kitchens take shape...and to chat with you both by email. :-)

Anyway, back to the kitchen:
If all new ovens are like mine, the light stays on while it's in use, and I find it so handy to be able to see in and check things from across the room...at least it's easy for the upper one.

Using the 2 ft per person rule, my family wouldn't have fit at any of the seating areas or tables we've had, including the dining table we have now. ;-) But we can even add 2 and still be perfectly comfortable...And this is with full-sized dining chairs, which are larger/wider than what I bet you'll have at the island. I think your seating will work for what you envision. It's good to be aware, though.

If you take the island sink base and make it a 24" cab and slide the rest down a bit, the knee space issue will be solved and you'll be able to choose from a wider variety of prep sinks.

I'm really sure that the doorway into the kitchen at the front door should be wider. A 26" door isn't wide enough for people carrying grocery bags or platters - it can easily be a 32" door or a pair of 20" ones that slide into both sides.

The distance between the ovens and the cooktop does not concern me a bit. I purposely did this in my new kitchen to get the heat of baking as far away from my main work area as possible. Since things are usually just popped into the oven and not fussed over much, having the distance has worked out really well for me. I think your layout looks really good! Your oven is located in a spot where you can easily keep an eye on what's cooking, but do not have to hover over it's heat while you are cleaning up or preparing other food.

That doorway is 2'6" by 6'8"...It's just drafting notation that can be confusing. I think that doorway is a 'just in case,' not a 'groceries-come-through-here?'

I love it! -

And the distance to the ovens would be a total non-issue for me because of the way I cook. I understand that other people cook diferently, hence their reactions. So how do you cook? Would *you* run back and forth constantly?

On the knee-space issue, how often would all 4 stools be filled at the same time? For my family of 4, it's pretty darned rare.

And I think you're right on target with your 'hutch as furniture' logic.

It doesn't look like it - but maybe the ovens or the oven cab is drawn weird in the elevation by the software.

Can't it have a bit more space generally - it's so crammed in, the dish cab cuts into the casings around the door. Maybe two - three inches each side of the casing of wall?

I'm think it hurts the presentation of the fake leg on one side for it to be tattooed with molding and is too jammed up at the oven side.

Okay, I have a small crisis. While my husband was out at the house this weekend, I had him take exact measurements of everything that was framed in in the kitchen. I totally forgot about this until just now (stupid me) when the door measurement was brought up, so I went digging through his coat pockets for the measurements. I've been out and seen everything--looked just fine--but I wanted him to measure to make sure. Now, I may be having my GC move some walls.

Everything is fine except for the hutch side/door/baking center walls. Here's the measurements:

The wall on the side of the hutch is 33 1/4 inches. So wouldn't that make it stick out almost 10 inches from the front of the hutch? Is that too much wall?

The door opening is actually 3 ft. wide. Too wide?

The baking center wall is 6 ft. 3 in. I was aware of this, and was debating lengthening it to have my 4 ft. baking center (as it is pictured) instead of 3 ft, but that would cut into the walkway to bedrooms, to basement stairs, and to living area.

I don't know if this makes sense, and I can't believe I didn't search for those measurements before now. To be fair, my GC was going off a previous drawing but I'm still not entirely sure where he came up with those measurements. Sorry rhome, as this messes up the renderings that you did so nicely.

So, if I'm going to have him move walls, what would the ideal measurements be? How much wall should stick out from hutch before doorway? How wide of a doorway? If these are both cut back, it would give me extra inches for the baking center.

Sorry if this makes absolutely no sense. I'm panicking a little bit because I just can't believe I didn't catch this earlier. And thank you, everybody, for your thoughtful replies thus far. It truly helps to get a variety of feedback!

I'm confused. It sounds like the wall to the immediate right of the hutch (when looking at it) allows more room for the door into the entry? And allows that doorway to be wider? So far, that's good. It also sounds like you might need to shorten the baking center...Couldn't you used some of the room between the front of the hutch and the side of the oven (the doorway area) to get more room for the baking center by sliding the oven toward the hutch?

What walls would be moving?

I think I may have figured out what you meant and what you are asking: Are you saying the wall and doorway are already framed? So it wouldn't need to be moved, but reframed to move the doorway and/or change its size to match the plan?

If that's the case...

First of all, having wall in front of the hutch isn't a problem, because it gives room to stand and open drawers without standing in the doorway.

As far as minimum space around the doorway, I like to leave room for the trim plus about 3 inches of wall.

3 ft is a nice width for a doorway, but maybe not necessary in that spot, if it's not often used and you won't be bringing armloads of groceries or produce through it. If that's the case, I'd keep it to 30" to allow your baking center as much room as possible. Most of the doorways in our house are 30".

I'm sorry that was confusing. I'll try to be more clear.

The wall to the right of the hutch (before the door) is framed in at 33 1/4 inches. The current rendering shows it at about 27 inches.

The doorway is framed at 3 ft. wide, instead of the 2' 6". This is not a "carrying groceries" entrance, so it doesn't need to be very wide.

The baking center wall is 6' 3", not the 7' 3" pictured.

I was thinking it might make sense to shorten the wall to the right of the hutch, move the doorway toward the hutch and possibly make it more narrow, and lengthen the baking center wall.

Perhaps I should've figured this out in my head a little more before blurting it out to all of you...sorry!

OK, sounds like we're on the same wavelength.

If I was planning that wall from scratch, I would allow 25" for the hutch, then 6 inches for trim and wall space, then 30" for door, then another 6 inches for trim and wall space, then the rest for baking center.

So basically, from what you have, you'd gain 8+" for the baking center wall...If you can use a 30" cabinet for your oven, that would leave you just about 4 ft for the baking center...You might have to add an inch or two to that wall to make it work.

I hope that all makes sense!

Oops, posted at the same time. Yes, that wall is already framed, even though I hadn't given him finalized kitchen plans. And I guess I'm saying 'wall' when I should be saying 'doorway'. Yes, the doorway is moved up the wall and wider than I thought it was going to be.

So it sounds like the only thing that may need to change is the doorway? Make it 6" more narrow and gain that space in the baking center. Makes sense.

Thanks Rhome, I'll take a deep breath now! I just looked at those measurements and thought, "Wait, that's not right!" Should be easy enough to adjust if needed.

Certainly easier to adjust now rather than later! :-)

DON'T PANIC!

It's going to be ok - if you're looking at framing with a 3 foot rough opening, it gets more "door frame" tucked in and may end up being another size. If you are measuring the current opening and its not a pocket door, your contractor can close up a bit of it when re-framing for the pocket door. You can get a bit by reducing the oven cabinet down to the absolute minimum. You could easily be looking at losing less than a foot.

If it does come to that, I think the reduction in the baking center will be ok. I really think you won't use the baking center as a "baking center", but as a simple storage area and for overflo cooling. Doing assembly and mixing will be easier on the end of the island and that's what I think you'll use. I think so because of the better access to water, better lighting, better available space without things overhead and doesn't have the stools behind you occupied by wiggle rats. If the wiggles are cooking, you'll probably have them use the island so you can see what they're doing.

Bmore, that's so funny! Did you know your 'don't panic' linked to the wikipedia list of phrases from "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"? I'm guessing you did indeed! :-D

You could be right about the baking center. I'm sure it will be easier to spread many things out on the island instead of that countertop. But it will be nice to have the storage for all baking supplies, etc. right there. My three year old wiggle rat :) loves to help me bake, so the island will probably be the perfect place for us to work together!

Funny how some things hit you and are so easily blown out of perspective when building a house. I just cringed because I've already had my GC move a few things around, so I don't necessarily want to do it again. But I'm going to go take another look, hopefully tomorrow evening, and see what's what. Thank you both for the reassurance.

Too bad we're not closer...My oldest son is experienced at moving doorways and otherwise making framing changes he already built. ;-) One of the advantages of breeding your own work crew... Your builder may roll his eyes, but it really shouldn't be a tough change.

Ahh....another "Hitchhiker" fan!

:) for everyone (and the dolphins). I hope to see the series someday.