Job/HR related question, not showing up for a shift

always1stepbehind

If an employee handbook says you can be fired for not showing up for 3 days in a row...does that mean if someone were to just not show up one day or even two days and then roll up the next day like no big deal, they can't fire you because it wasn't 3 days? Personally, I think you should be fired for missing/no show/no call unless it was some emergency type reason.


My son just started a new job and he didnt have his schedule (his fault) for the next week...the day he checked and set up the app, he had missed a shift that day. He seems to thinks it's no big deal that he missed that shift..."they can't fire you for missing one day"...he's got that 3 day thing stuck in his head.


What gets me is that he would think it's ok not to show up for work. Seriously??


Any HR people here that can answer that? Not how my kids thinks, but about the 3 day no show/no call...

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tackykat

Are you asking if the employer can fire someone for the reason stated in the handbook? (Not showing up for 3 days?) Basically yes.

If you live in a state where employees serve at will, an employer can fire you for any reason (such as not showing up for 1 day or mouthing off to your boss) or for no reason at all (we don't like you). The exceptions to this are if the employer is violating the employee's constitutional rights or if the employee has a contract.

The fact that it's in the handbook doesn't really govern the issue, but its smart for the employer to put in writing.

If your son can't be bothered to show up for work, don't expect his employer to care too much about him.....

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dees_1

New job? Might be in a probationary period where anything goes, rules aside. I'm surprised his manager has not spoken with him about missing a shift, especially since he's a new employee. Good that your son read the handbook...but he needs to think about how his behavior looks on a general level. He's certainly not setting himself up for employee of the year.

The at will employment laws of a state pretty much say you can be fired for any reason.


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always1stepbehind

Tackykat. No, I figure they can fire you for 3 day now show, I'm asking if they could fire you for not showing for 1 day. Which I think they would be able to. Otherwise people could not show up for work for one or two days and then say "it's under 3 days".

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tackykat

I'm asking if they could fire you for not showing for 1 day.

Always, the first two posts have your answer. Depending on your state, an employee can be fired for any reason, or for no reason.

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Uptown Gal

or possibly a whole different answer if it is a union shop. Surely, he must know that,

though? His attitude sounds like he may not be there long, no matter which it is.

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tackykat

Yes, Uptown Gal raises a good point. Unions are a different story - no idea what their rules are. What I have stated are some general rules.

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always1stepbehind

No not union, nothing like that. What I'm worried about is with this type of attitude of my son, when he gets a job worth keeping, he's going to blow it. I really do think someone, meaning his friends has put this idea in his head. He was at his previous job, 1st job he ever had for over a year and never had any issues and always worked his shift but this flippant attitude is going to bite him in ass.

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always1stepbehind

Tacky I know it was answered, I was just clarifying I was asking about 1 day, not the 3 day as stated in the handbook.

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joyfulguy

Has he no concern as to how much difficulty there might be in getting his work covered if he not only didn't show, but didn't call to give his overseer a head's up?

Has he next to minimal concern as to the reputation that he's establishing with his employer?

Does he want to work there for a substantial term, or is he O.K. with being there for a while and then having them to tell him to get lost?

It seems to me that if his main concern is about whether he has transgressed the rules enough to give them cause to fire him rather than his lack of responsibility for seeing that his job is getting done effectively, building a good reputation as to his worth as an employee, his perspective as to what the hierarchy of levels of concern needs to be needs some major overhaul!

Especially since he's a recent hire.

Not setting himself up for a good possibility of becoming a valued employee, whether with this employer or subsequent ones ... and in these days of temporary and uncertain employment for many, establishing such a reputation has developed increasing importance.

Robots have a good reputation in terms of showing up for work.

ole joyful

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Anglophilia

Sounds as if his work ethic needs a bit of readjusting. Getting fired might do that for him.

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maifleur01

Back off as he does not care. You can tell him lots of things but until he is faced with reality he will do whatever he wants. If he does not live with you or even if he does at this stage of his life you need to be setting boundaries for him. Things like you will not support him or allow him to live with you if he can not get and keep a job. He is now an adult and must live with the consequences of his actions. You do not want a thirty or forty year old still living with you because they could not keep a job because the boss made the rules not them.

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OutsidePlaying

I am not HR but was a Director at an engineering company before retirement and supervised many people, none shift workers. It was expected by me and my subordinate managers that anyone not able to come to work call in with an excuse. No exceptions. A new employee is looked at hard in this regard, so a no-show would have resulted in being called in to explain and probably being at least having a written record put in their file for a certain period of time. That is then a part of consideration at evaluation and bonus time

Is it a fireable offense? Depends on the job and the need for people at the company at the time. If no one has had the talk with him, he may think it was over-looked but I assure you it was not, and he will be on the short list for people who will be let go if a lay-off occurs.

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Lucille

My concern is that he may think, since unemployment is so low, that jobs are plentiful and that being fired is not going to affect him. I'm with Always in being perplexed that he thinks it is ok not to show up.

Employers in an at will state can fire for anything or nothing. If he attempts to argue and point to the handbook he will simply be fired if not for the lapse, then certainly for the attitude.

On the other hand, if he had received only the vague instruction of setting up the app if he apologizes and pleads his case with no trace of attitude, and is exemplary as an employee from then on he may still recover.

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rob333 (zone 6b/7a)

He sure as heckfire can get written up. Three times and he'll be out the door. He'll never get promotions either.

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ldstarr

As many have already said, the 2 big questions are 1) the state of employment and 2) union representation. In most places, the handbook would be interpreted to mean "an employee WILL be fired after not showing up for 3 consecutive shifts". The handbook is simply not addressing lesser time periods. That means it will be up to the supervisor or HR what, if any discipline a lesser offense leads to. It will most likely be a written or documented verbal warning. Either way, if it is during a probationary period, it will definitely be a black mark on his record. In my company, we have a 90-day probationary period and a no show (without a call-in) would most likely mean termination.

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sephia_wa

If he gets fired from one job, his next potential employer may ask to contact his previous employer. That would be awkward. "Uh, I was fired from my previous job."

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tackykat

Yes, that is a good explanation of at-will employment. It does not help your son if he decides not to go to work/ forgets to look at the schedule/oversleeps.

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arcy_gw

That is correct Lucille. We are at a place in most cities where teen workers are few and far between. Those willing to work, don't hold the work ethic needed to sustain a job, many times. Parents/schools/clubs have all taught young people they can't screw up. They believe there is ALWAYS another chance. No shame no blame. What you as mom will learn, he will continue to drop shifts. He will get fired. He will continue in this manner until he hits the age where they don't give adults a pass and he gets fired once or twice the first time he drops a shift. By then he will have bills he HAS TO PAY and he will maybe figure it out. You might consider calling the manager and insist your son feel the sting of this stupidity NOW and fire him so you can save him and you years of this silliness.

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maifleur01

Someone mentioned asking a previous employer. Things may have changed and each state has their own laws at one time all a previous employer could say was if an employee would be rehired. Looks bad to be told someone would not be rehired but gone are the days when an employer could actually tell why an employee would not be hired. Has worked well for several embezzlers here.

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always1stepbehind

"They believe there is ALWAYS another chance" = SO my son. Drives me nuts. I try to tell him but it's always "it's not a big deal mom". oh I 100% agree, if he gets fired it's all his own doing.

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grapefruit1_ar

First impressions mean a lot and can be remembered for a long time. A positive first impression can set you up for bigger and better things to come.

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patriciae_gw

He will do what he will do but if I were you I would certainly not cushion any problem he has during his learning curve. That simply protracts the process. Make sure if it is going to hurt it does, No pillows to fall on.

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nannygoat18

always, I work as an addiction counselor--when clients fail to adhere to our center's ground rules, I often have to remind myself that I cannot be more invested in their recovery than they are. They always have my support but I refuse to enable.

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bostonpat_gw

His work attitude will play a part on what, if any, consequences your son may suffer. His current attitude does not project an image of someone an employer can depend on. At this point, it sounds like the best thing for to you to do for him is to let him fail. If he rejects your advice, let him suffer the consequences, it is hard to watch this as a parent. He's making his bed, let him lie in it. I wouldn't contact his employer, it is not their job to raise this young man.

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Elmer J Fudd

Is this the same kid who hit the neighbor's garage and caused $$$ damages? Who dropped out of community college and got fired from a job?. Had his car totaled and somewhere along the line has taken up with "friends" who are not a good influence? And who wasn't looking for a new job until he ran out of money?

Sorry, but his problems have nothing to do with labor law or HR practices. This kid is in a downward spiral and he and perhaps parents too need professional counselling and intervention ASAP.

Doing nothing and waiting to see what happens isn't the right approach in my opinion because things will only get worse and worse, as seems to have been the case judging from recent comments about the sequence of incidents. You need to be proactive, like now!.

Good luck

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always1stepbehind

Elmer, I did not say his problem had anything to do with labor laws. I was just clarifying that he could be fired for missing a shift. Not trying to blame my sons "eh" attitude/wrong choices on anyone. When I posted about him wanting to be able to stay out all night, I'm told by many here "hes an adult" he can do what he wants, I have no say. If I've tried to guide him, his father tried to guide him and he still chooses not to take our advice...what else are we supposed to? I'm trying not to fix everything for him, he has to feel the effect of his mistakes so hopefully he'll make the right decision next time.

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maifleur01

Sorry but my take was that you were looking for suggestions that would get through to him that he needed to take responsibility. At this point you must just stand aside and watch the train wreck. He may straighten up but with the chances he has had it is not likely. I would suggest that when he gets into more trouble, which he will, do not even attempt to bail him out or provide any resources for him. You are being an enabler and that will not help him.

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maddielee

“. If I've tried to guide him, his father tried to guide him and he still chooses not to take our advice...what else are we supposed to? I'm trying not to fix everything for him, he has to feel the effect of his mistakes so hopefully he'll make the right decision next time.”


since he is over 18 it may be time to tell him you love him and that he has 6 months til he is on his own. His phone,auto expenses, food and room will not be covered after June, 2019. Then stick with it. (That’s what we would have done.)


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DawnInCal

I'm not an HR expert, but I can't imagine that many employers are going to put up with an employee (especially a new one) missing shifts and not notifying their employer that they will not be in to work their shift. If he were to miss more than one consecutive shift, it's a distinct possibility that the employer will assume he has abandoned his job and will terminate his employment. I imagine it varies from state to state and employer to employer.

Having said that, whether or not he can get away with it is one thing and the reputation he is establishing for himself is another. It's very hard to correct a bad first impression and it's something that could make it difficult to advance to better positions in the future. Unfortunately, some kids don't think about these things and have to learn the hard way before they decide to straighten out. I'm sure it's a worry for you and I hope the situation gets resolved in the near future.

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watchmelol

Missing a shift without notification will be a write up at best. Strike one. It wouldn't surprise me if he was simply told he no longer worked there.

Even Union employees are expected to call in if they won't be coming in. Most places require a doctor's note after 3 missed days in a row for illness. Even if you call in.

The handbook is basically saying miss 3 days and don't bother coming back. That doesn't mean you can't be fired/reprimanded for other offenses and missing a shift without calling in would be good reason to let an employee go.

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kris_zone6

i'm sorry, but I have to agree with Elmer on this. From your other postings it appears that there have not been consequences when he screwed up. In my opinion he will never shape up without professional intervention. It is imperative to start now or he will continue down this path.

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always1stepbehind

A therapist will help my son be responsible??

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maifleur01

A therapist can ask why he does the things he does and perhaps get him to think of the consequences of his actions where a parent is just ignored. I think though that he probably would not even show up.

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nannygoat18

A client must be motivated to seek therapy. As long as he has a safety net, there is no inclination for change.

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saltylime

I retired from HR. The company probably has an "incident" count that equals termination. In my company, if he no called/now showed 2 days, that would be 2 incidents and 3=you're out. Unemployment is so low now, the employer may not have time to counsel and inquire about absences. It's just a matter of him not coming to work means he gets fired if it happens too often. Right now, they probably know that he's not going to be a long-timer, and they are just waiting for the other shoe to fall.

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Elmer J Fudd

I sure hope not but a future incident may involve "therapy" from the criminal justice system. That's anything but voluntary. There's nothing like getting doses of reality from cops when you've run afoul of the law.

This might be a situation where only tough love and a discussion about non-negotiables concerning his conduct will get through to him. Failing a willingness to do that, and I think such a willingness has not been present given the list of past incidents, it might be time to change the door locks and wish him good luck



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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

How do you jump from not going to work to getting into trouble with the law? I have not seen anything suggesting this. I have seen the staying out all night. But he may just sit on a couch somewhere playing video games with his friends. Would I give him money to support him if he doesn’t make the effort to earn it himself? No, I would definitely not.

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maifleur01

Iris I have known people who do this and they have almost always gotten in trouble with the law. Just because you have been lucky and not known someone does not mean that this is not a common occurrence. It is always someone other than themselves that is to blame.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

There is a wealthy family in our neighborhood. 25 years ago, when the boy was about 12, we sent him from our property because he was tearing up everything with his 4 wheeler. 2 days later the windows on our garage were broken. His father paid another neighbor because he put graffiti on their house. Since then he had a dozen arrests, the latest a year ago for kidnapping and attempted murder. The father keeps on paying the bail. I am not seeing anything like this here. I am seeing irresponsible and probably lazy. Not criminal.

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maifleur01

Iris he backed into a carport/garage a couple of months ago and was apparently not made to pay for it. It was posted on here. Why would he improve if there were no consequences. Unless he finds something within himself one of these days he will have to face the consequences of what he is doing.

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graywings123

Getting back to the employee handbook, have you actually seen and read it? I have been retired for many years, but back in the day, you could have excused absences. You called in sick - you always had to call in - and you had an excused absence. Then you could call in sick on Day 2. But by Day 3, you needed a letter from a doctor verifying you were sick.

Like others have said above, it is never OK to just not to show up for work. You might want to clarify what the employee handbook says.

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Debby

I don't know about the US, but in Canada you're on "probation" for 3 months and your employer doesn't need any excuse to fire you. None. Nada. And that would be one of the reasons they would call and say don't come back. It's the employees job to check and double check their schedule and the employees responsibility to call the employer if he can't make it in at all.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Oh. In that case my kid would have paid or worked for it (as in doing yard work or something). I have two daughters. The younger one is now a Senior in College. I never had a problem with them not trying to do the best they could, so I am really feeling for always1stepbehind.

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sushipup1

You said before that poeple (we here on the forum) advised you that when he wanted to stay out all night, that he is an adult. Go back and read that thread. If he stays at home, goes to college or works and pays his own bills, he's an adult. I think the consensus was that if he can not do those things, it's your house, your rules. for as long as you want to enable him. Otherwise, kick him out.

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littlebug zone 5 Missouri

I'm going to speak plainly, and I mean no offense.

Is he over 18? Shove him out the door and tell him he's on his own. The things you are doing are NOT helping him. You are hurting him because you are enabling him.

Before retirement, I worked at a fairly large company. In the rear of my building was the HR department, and one day an older woman came down my hall looking for that office. Trailing behind her was a man of about 30. She told me she was taking her son to the HR office so he could apply for a custodial position we had open. I looked at him incredulously and he smirked at me. They were two of the most pitiful people I have ever seen in my life: Him - because he so obviously was trailing Mama just to appease her, and Her because she was being so foolish. That happened about 10 years ago and I imagine she is still supporting him. WE certainly didn't hire him.

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ratherbesewing

I am a little surprised that your DS told you that he missed a shift at work. He will probably have an excuse for his mistake and the employer will let it go. I don't know your entire situation, but it's hard to watch someone not help themselves. Failure to Launch is real and can be attributed to many things from learning disabilities to substance abuse to depression. You describe that your (you and your DH) guidance with your DS is not working. Time for a professional.

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pb32

We have a policy that if you no show and no call 3 days in a row, it's job abandonment.

That does not mean a single no show is excused. Nor does it mean someone can no show 3 individual times before they are fired.

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tackykat

I agree with graywings above, but I don't think you should have to look at the handbook. It's your son's job.

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joyfulguy

What will he say when you tell him that he's to help with household chores (that he should have been doing increasingly as he grew up)?

Time for him to learn that we all need to pay for our own way in this world.

Further ... since he's now an adult, he's to pay for his room and board ... and if he doesn"t pay his phone bill, the phone is gone.

If he doesn't pay for his accommodation, make clear what the consequences will be e.g. gets away with one partly missed payment, more will mean his stuff on the front porch and the locks changed.

ole joyful


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kris_zone6

He should have been learning about consequences of his actions since he was old enough to talk.

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nickel_kg

On the other hand, perhaps the young man has a better understanding of what his boss expects than we do. By now he should! Good luck to him.

If it were my kid, I'm not sure I could resist pointing out "Gee, it's taking a long time to get help in this store. I wonder if everyone showed up for their shift!" It's a fine line between passive-agressive and innocent talking out loud. LOL.

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