Love it, jwnd!!! BTW, even though I try to behave in public as if I'm NOT the Center of the Universe, there have been a handful of times where I made my opinion known as to how I had been treated, but that was in cases where the customer service person was completely out of bounds with intentional rudeness. There is no excuse for being mistreated and I don't let it slide. We have a huge grocery chain in our area where the customer always comes first, it's been the policy since day one when it opened way back in the 40's or 50's. If someone isn't polite and kind in that store they don't work there very long. I've seen lots of lax customer service skills all around but most of it is just poor training, lack of personal or company pride, etc. Rarely anything that is actually intentional. I think most people get all offended over stuff that the people who did the deed aren't even aware that they even did it.

Kathsgarden,

I'm sorry you had to go through not one but two negative customer service experiences in one day.

I follow up on out of the ordinary customer service experiences good or bad. If the service was bad I email, because those filter down and people at several levels see them. Especially for employees who stand around talking to each other instead of doing their job, I think the company involved should hear about it.

For outstanding above-and-beyond service I will immediately go to the customer service department even if I have to stand in line, and describe the employee and his/her special contribution. It brightens their day and I like to think that maybe the employee will get special recognition.

Anyway, I'm hoping that Karma will come up with an extra special nice experience for you in the next couple days.

I almost always use the self-checkout if available unless I think I might have a complicated item to deal with or gift card at checkout. Home Depot seems exceptional, both in their order pick up, returns, and checkout. We get a military discount which requires the attendant to enter a code before we scan the items, and it’s always fast. The times I have used Target self checkout it is hit or miss for problems. I don’t shop Wal-Mart much but seems about the same.

I do use Wal-Mart’s app to order ahead and use curb pick up on occasion and that is excellent. You determine the pick-up time, pay, they bring the items to your car, and off you go.

Eld, I don't think that was an option or I didn't see any. I should have just moved to another scanner, like I said in my post.

I use the self scanner most of the time because it's faster. Kroger and Wal-mart here usually only have one or two regular isles open.

I usually don't have horrible service experiences. Oh, and getting a degree doesn't always help with you not working in customer service. I got mine and work with "customers", most are nice, but a lot are jerks that yell and scream at you, hang the phone up when you tell them you can't do what they want you to do...like send them a taxi to get to the hospital.

We used to use the self-serve machines until they went to debit or charge only. No cash. I pay cash for groceries.

I thought the idea of the self-serve was for few items, to get through quickly. But seeing a single person pull an overflowing cart to one, and laboriously unload and scan each item, takes a heck of a long time. It would be quicker for the cashier to ring you through.

I'd been trying, several times/day since hubby passed to get through to his ophthalmologist to cancel an upcoming appointment. It says on the business card that patients have to give 24-hr notice of cancellations. I've never been able to get through........a constant v/m......stating that the office is very busy and they're either assisting patients or on the phones. Finally, I looked up their number and sent a fax. I also mentioned that they need to hire more front-line staff to man the phones. Hopefully the fax got through.

Ah, Jasdip, I'm sorry you had to do deal with that. When someone passes away, there are these constant little reminders the first few months. I remember having to cancel a doctor's appt for my dad after he died and when my brother died, a jury notice came in his mail a few weeks later, so I had to notify them too. You expect to have to notify creditors and whatnot, but those day to day life things can be unsettling.

When I was at Macy's the other morning, I was being rung out by a clerk who was friendly, but through our conversation, and the conversation that I overheard her to have with a phone caller, it was clear that she had had no training in representing the store or making the best impression on a customer, and didn't really care because she was "just a temp". I didn't hear her say "I don't know, I'm just a temp" once, I heard it 4 or 5 times. Clearly no intention of making an effort to find out what the customer wanted to know (if something was in stock, for one thing).

I like to use the receipt and go on line and fill out the surveys from different places.

I have gotten calls from our local grocery store. Especially when I used their bottle return room and the floor was so sticky my sandal got stuck to the floor and I walked out of it. I was not happy. But, I am quick to praise also. Great service, wonderful. clean store, I'll tell you and say it on the survey.

Cold hamburger, will note that. Quick service at the post office, thank you.

Let your voice be heard!

I pretty much refuse to use self check because I feel like it's just one more way to eliminate decent paying jobs (maybe not at walmart, since they are known for poor pay/hours) and workers.

Labor cost savings translate into lower prices charged to customers. Are you saying that your choice of retail stores for buying various items isn't influenced by item prices? And that you don't shop for low prices for major purchases? And that you are willing to pay more to subsidize higher wages for employees? If so, you're a rarity among retail customers.

Stores try to do what they think customers want and what will bring customers into the store. As an example, I doubt that many customers would go to Costco instead of Sams Club, even if an item's price is higher, solely to support the higher wages believed to be paid by Costco.

I believe more affluent people gravitate to better run stores despite higher prices when proximity, convenience, and product availability are not factors. Wal-Mart and Costco are not comparable shopping destinations.

I avoid Walmart anymore, because of the bad service. The last time I was in, I

asked a service person,supposedly working the floor, for something, and he just

looked blankly at me. Speaking of Home Depot...it never fails to amaze me how

well the service people know the store. I have never asked for help that the

person couldn't start right out and take me to what I was looking for. Great service

in the store here. Also good service at Menard's.

Last time I was in target and asked were something was the employee pulled out a phone and told me the row, section, and shelf number where I could find it. I thought that was neat. I was expecting a "somewhere over there with a vague point ".

Sometimes when something is on sale at our Canadian tire stores, I'll look online. It tells me how many are available in my local store, and even the aisle number. That's pretty slick.

When our Walmart had self-check years ago, I went thru it and as I was about to leave 1 security and one employee asked me if they could go thru my bags. I said yes and as they did. I had tears streaming down my face as people walked by looking at me. They found nothing but I was sooo embarrassed. I came home and was so crushed. SO I went back the next day and asked for those two people. They were not there, and someone else was sent out. After telling him what happened and asking for an apology, he said " well those things happen " and walked off. About a month later those self-checks were all taken out, and then just a few months ago new ones were reinstalled. NOt using the self-checks.

This is not a complaint, but the lady that helped me out at the self checkout earlier had such long fingernails, she had to type with her knuckles. I found this really weird.

"I believe more affluent people gravitate to better run stores despite higher prices when proximity, convenience, and product availability are not factors."

I agree. I respect and probably mostly agree with the sentiment that jobs should pay a living wage. I'm willing to pay more to do that to a point but I'll do a comparison price shopping when buying a bigger ticket item.

When a person feels strongly about supporting businesses that pay better wages, they should vote with their pocketbooks and pay the higher prices such businesses charge. The thing is, few do that. That's what I was trying to say.

Oh, I'm sorry you've had to try soooo hard to cancel that appointment, Jasdip. If they dare try to charge you, I would read them the riot act; you've been bending over backward to try to take care of this.

I didn't read the whole thread so I don't know if it's been mentioned but stores use self-check outs because they're cheaper for them. The more people use them, the fewer real cashiers there will be.

I don't use the self serve registers. It seems so Jetsons. Our grocery cashiers ask if I found everything. Once I said that I didn't find 6 out of the 15 items on my list. She just looked at me in a panic. Apparently they are trained to ask but not how to handle it if the customer says no. That's a management failure. The cashier did the best she could and she couldn't have been nicer.

Yesterday I went to Starbucks, thru the drive-thru. They are always friendly and usually get my order right. I ordered a tall mocha and since it had been a while since I had gotten one, I was surprised by how small the cup was. The cup protector sleeve didn't even fit it anymore. Not even at the top, where the cup is the largest. The whole way home I kept thinking, "you paid almost $4 for this". I hear they pay their people good at Starbucks but why do the cups keep getting smaller and smaller?

I'll use the self scanners, depending on where and what I am buying. For a handful of items, I'll take my chances or walk to another terminal if necessary.

We have a WM neighborhood market (a small walmart grocery store) not too far from the house and it is predominantly self check out lanes. I love the feature there and regularly use it when buying a full weeks worth of groceries- almost never a problem, and when there is, someone comes over to help very quickly. This is in one of the nicest areas of town.

A few weeks ago, we were at the Super Walmart that is more centrally located to the rest of the city. We had about a dozen items and I made the mistake of thinking to just go through the self check. Wow, nothing went right. The machine complained constantly that the wrong items were in the bagging area, the overseer took forever, and then had to go through my stuff to make sure it was legitimate. It was pain and I wished I'd just taken the time to wait in a longer line.

So I know this is off the topic, but I was recently in Bealls in Florida and I almost felt like I was assaulted. I did not keep count but as I was walking through the store there had to be 4-5 sales people asking me if I had this Bealls card or that Bealls card (no charge, but please sign up now) and did I want a shopping cart and please mention my name as you sign up for this or that great card at the front. I did not want a shopping cart and a young gal brought me one saying "I know you said no, but I brought you one anyway" and I said 'no thanks, I'm a germaphobe and don't like to push a cart" and she left it outside the dressing room in case I changed my mind and then when I was in the dressing room, she called in to ask my name. I didn't even know she had watched me go in the dressing room and I just ignored her. Then when I checked out the cashier went through the same routine with asking me to sign up and why didn't I want all of their great discounts????? I just kept repeating 'no thank you' over and over and couldn't wait to get out and I don't think there's any reason for me to ever go back.

Janie, I had to say "no thank you" a dozen times to the cashier at the chain bookstore the other day. He couldn't see why anyone would refuse the offer of a discount and coupons. I was buying a couple kiddie books for Christmas charity kids. For my reading material year round I patronize the library -- so it's not worth it to me to give my info away for a once-per-year store card. So, "NO!". Just "NO!".

I went through that card thing with Macys last summer. I was buying a pair of sandals and was going to use my VISA, but the clerk told me that if I applied for their card, I'd get a discount (can't recall the percentage but it was enough to make me agree to sign up for a card). After filling out their paperwork and attempting to buy the shoes, my application was rejected for reasons unknown to this day, so she asked if I wanted to use my VISA instead. I asked if I would still get the discount. Uh, sorry, no. So, I passed on the sandals and left.

There was a small family owned shoe store next door so I went in there to see what they had in the way of sandals. I found the same pair, same brand for quite a bit less (thinking $50 less) so took them up to the register to pay. They had another discount going on ($10 off at the register), so I ended up saving something like $60 on the shoes.

Even thought I was annoyed at Macys at the time, it turned out really well for me and my wallet!

Elmer, your quote about shopping at a ‘higher priced’ store for the convenience, among other things, is one reason I shop at Publix grocery stores for the most part. They pay their workers well, treat them well, hire the handicapped (we know at least 2 who work there who are high functioning, one with CP and the other autistic), and they take your groceries to your car (no tips allowed). I don’t mind carrying my own groceries, mind you, especially when I have a couple of bags, but it is quite nice when you have many bags and someone takes and loads them in the car for you. And other than Wal-Mart, it’s the closet to us.

> Labor cost savings translate into lower prices charged to customers.

Sure that's the economic theory, but given that they are charging customers the same amount irrespective of whether they use the self-checkout lane or the normal checkout lane, its a theory without without much direct supporting evidence.

I'm fine with them offering the option to use self-checkout lanes, for customers who want that. I pretty much never use them. On one instance after selecting the 15 or so items I needed I got to the front of the store and found no normal lanes open -- only self-checkout. The manager was standing right there, so I asked why there were no checkout lanes open. She responded "Sure there are, the self-checkout lanes are right here." I responded "I refused to work as a cashier as a teen for money, I'm not going to work as one now for free." and I left the cart right in front of her and walked out of the store.

The Walmart that I use for paper goods and cat food from the comments must not be normal. If you ask where something is they take you there. If they do not know they ask one of the leads. This happens at this time of the year because of the temporary people. If the lead does not know they will either find someone, go to the front of the store and ask, or use one of the phones that were/are available for anyone to ask where something is. However in thinking about it I think the phones have been removed.

I try to use the regular checkouts rather than the machines because I am that customer that finds the obscure item that is new to the store and it does not ring up correctly.

Off Topic but If anyone shops there I recommend the Margaret Holmes line of veggies. Most have a nice tasting broth that works well as a fast light soup. Normally I only purchase fresh or frozen veggies but on a whim I tried one of the mixed veggies. Real flavor.

and I left the cart right in front of her and walked out of the store.

Then a grocery store employee had to restock those items. That's disrespecting an employee.

No. The manager was disrespecting her employees by essentially saying they weren't needed. My hope is that because she made it so that there weren't any cashiers there working in the store at that time, that she was the one that had to restock the items.

Unless the manager was the only one working the store, I doubt you accomplished your wishes. There's always a stock person on duty who restocked your abandoned merchandise.

Huh. My Wal-Mart doesn’t seem to restock anything. It’s been 3 weeks since I told an employee that they are out of sunflower seed chips. Thanks to Lowe’s the finches didn’t start a riot. I was honestly thinking of interrupting their morning meeting. “Give me a W, give me an A” doesn’t seem to accomplish anything.

"its a theory without without much direct supporting evidence."

Huh? I'm going to guess you have no business managerial experience. Calling something you don't understand a "theory with no direct evidence" may be a rationalization that works for you in such cases but there's no reason for you to be skeptical.

I used to prefer self checkout when DH and I were driving a lot and so using a lot of fuel. The store I usually go to gives you a discount voucher for fuel on your sales docket if you spend over $30. But however much you spend over $30, you still only get one docket and one discount.

If you go through the checkout, the checker is only allowed to process your purchase as a single purchase. But going through the self checkout I could stop and pay after putting through about $30 worth of groceries, get a docket and start again. This helped with our fuel bills.

I love self checkout. If only one could use it when buying alcohol...

DawnInCal, I have wondered why they can’t just have you scan your drivers license. Works for the cashiers.

That is a great idea, Iris. I figure it's because the scanner can't check to see if the human matches the ID while a human cashier can. Like if a teen boy used my ID, the machine wouldn't catch it, but a human would. I'll bet that one of these days they'll have a machine that can do that.

In theory, the cashier looks at the photo and confirms the person handing over the license is the one shown on the license. Not that of the 5 year older sibling or friend of the 17 year old trying to use it.

If I understand correctly, in my state (Virginia) people under 21 are not allowed to sell alcohol. So the younger cashiers have to call over an older cashier, regardless of the customer's i.d. I'm guessing that's a state law, not just a store policy, but I haven't looked it up.

There is no doubt that not paying employees to work as cashiers, and instead having customers perform that task for free, lowers the labor costs for a retail company. Your contention that the lower labor costs are then passed along as lower prices to customers, as opposed to simply being kept by the company as higher profits, is the part without much direct evidence. IF the companies offered an X% discount for using the self-scanners, that would be simple observable evidence that they are offering lower prices based on the lower labor costs.

I'm sure you will come back citing fierce competition and razor-thin profit margins in the retail grocery business, as supporting evidence that they must be offering lower prices, however I would then contend that in such a competitive environment they don't just automatically lower prices willy-nilly in response to savings in labor costs. Instead every move is measured and calculated, often independently, in an effort to maximize overall profits at every turn. So while somewhat lower labor costs would make it so they could offer lower prices, they won't actually do so unless other data they gather says they need to.

After the instance I cited above (which was at a Kroger's), I immediately went to another grocery store in the same shopping center (a Harris Teeter), and picked up essentially the same items. In the end though the last laugh was on me, since Kroger's had at that point bought out the entire chain of Harris Teeter, so they ended up getting my money anyway.

I wonder if self check outs increase theft of products? It' s astonishing the ideas people come up to steal merchandise. My mind just doesn't work that way, but I have been to self check outs that don't weigh the product after it has been scanned. Wouldn't it be easy to pretend you scanned the merchandise?

I only use self check if I have just a couple of items to purchase. If I have a cartload, it is far faster to go through the regular checkout - the "pro" cashiers are way speedier than I am!! And my local Safeway is just steps way from the high school. If I happen to stop by any time close to lunch time, the self check registers are lined up with students buying lunch :-)) And I really dislike the mass marketing type stores (Walmart, HD, etc.) self check facilities. They just sell far too many diverse products for that to be a trouble-free and efficient process.

Several of the larger, more high end stores in my area have NO self check features. But they do have numerous checkout stations, including the 'express' ones, that are always fully manned so there are few, if any, lines ever. And superb customer service!

" is the part without much direct evidence."

With all due respect, bob, I think this seems to be an area you have little or no personal experience. "I have no first hand knowledge or experience with....." can't be morphed into "there is no evidence that...." This isn't a matter of uncertainty, just seemingly one where YOU are lacking information/experience and so YOU have uncertainty.

A more complete explanation would be too long and I'm mindful of trying to keep my comments short.

nickel, I haven't looked it up, but I believe California law is the same based on my experiences of purchasing alcohol from an underage cashier. They always call one of the older employees over to ring up the sale.

functionthenlook, given how many different ways people figure out to get around things, it would not surprise me at all if smaller items didn't get scanned and were just slipped into a pocket. I know that I have sometimes put in the wrong code for produce only to realize later that I paid less than I should have. In my case, it seems to even out as I have also put in the wrong code and paid more than I should have.

Most systems will sense an item moved to baggage without being scanned. So, if you're stealing, it would have to be placed in pocket or purse.

"Are you saying that your choice of retail stores for buying various
items isn't influenced by item prices? And that you don't shop for low
prices for major purchases? And that you are willing to pay more to
subsidize higher wages for employees?"

Yes, I'm saying that. I don't have a large family to feed, so the amount I pay for food isn't significant. And I'm lucky to be in a position to be able to afford what I might want. I shop the food-coop - good prices, good wages, lots of organic and conscientious sourcing.

I don't shop at walmart, regardless of their prices because they don't pay a living wage to many of their employees. And yes, I am willing to pay higher prices for decent wages for workers.

Outstanding and good for you oly. Same for me.

The number of people who shop from sale to sale and seek lowest prices otherwise fuel the cost containment focus (labor costs included) of grocery stores who compete by price. I understand there are many who do this because of budget limitations and I'd be the last person to criticize them. But those who complain about wage practices and job cuts (especially in the Rust Belt) while continuing to shop by price don't realize their own buying actions contribute to the labor practices and job site relocations they complain about.

As is your usual method, someone has disagreed with you and you defend yourself by springing to attack. Even when you don't understand the point the person is trying to make, you see some one who appears to be disagreeing with you, and you attack. Even when the poster is mostly agreeing with you, but is quibbling about some interpretation, you attack.

I don't need a lengthy lecture about economic theory or the actual business practices of major corporations. I will freely stipulate that you know more about those subjects than anyone, anywhere. But as with the other times when you've attacked me, that is not relevant to the point I'm trying to make.

To break my point down in easy to digest declarative statements

First the assumptions:

1. Self-checkout machines lower the labor costs of a grocery store in because fewer cashiers are needed to service the same number of customers.
2. Just because the company does so and has lower labor costs, that doesn't mean they will instantly and automatically lower all prices by some factor.
3. Instead they will lower some prices, raise some prices, keep some prices the same just as they do virtually every single day.

Are you with me so far?

1. If you as a customer buy 20 items and go through self-checkout, and then immediately reenter the store and buy the exact same 20 items and go through the normal checkout lane and then compare the receipts there will be no difference and therefore no evidence to you as the consumer that the company is offering lower prices because of the self-checkout lanes.
2. If you as a customer buy 20 items at a store that hasn't yet installed self checkout lanes, and save the receipt. And then two weeks later, after that very store has installed self-checkout lanes, you go back and repurchase the exact same 20 items, and then compare the receipts. The second one will be either higher, or lower, or exactly the same. Even if it is lower, there is no evidence to the customer that the prices are lower because the store installed self-checkout lanes.

Therefore there is no direct evidence to the customer that because the store has installed self-checkout lanes that it is using the lower labor costs to offer lower prices.

QED

bob, I think you've said you work in IT at a school. My career was in business, as a manager and as an adviser. I spent about 6 years as a worker (and supervisor) in the grocery business with a large chain early on before I finished my professional education. I have decades of business experience. The customer, revenue pricing and cost dynamics in the grocery business aren't that different from other businesses. I'm not going to argue with you, you're far out of your lane.

Bob _, Personally I find it is best to ignore someone that might have NPD. IST people rock.

I'm not going to argue with you, you're far out of your lane.

You seem to feel that credentials are all that matters and you don't need to (or are not able to) create cohesive responses.

There are many people here in different walks of life here and they are amazingly thoughtful with all sorts of different ideas. After all, the rest of us read to see the different ideas, not to hear once again that you are right by virtue of your past.

Elmer if you are having some personal crisis and need validation that you are special, we'll do that for you because you are unique and special and part of this community.

But if you are saying you can sit on your hind end and declare a win solely because you used to be in business, nope.