robo, your post blows my mind!

Your cookies are gorgeous. I haven't read all the responses but will after I post.

That said, things got convoluted. A friend of a friend.......You personally did not talk directly to the recipient and she had no idea that there was a formula.

Not everyone has cash readily available. I know I don't.

Lesson learned. . Always speak directly to the recipient of the the product to explain your formula and how things work.

There is no excuse for such boorish behavior!

" It is a hard lesson, but I am still donating what I believe the worth should have been."

Your sensibilities and humanity are apparent in that statement. Keep making your beautiful cookies!

Agree there is no excuse. I dang sure would have cash available if I ordered 5 dozen handmade cookies and they were being HAND DELIVERED to my house.

Your cookies are beautiful! And for charity donations? How wonderful of you!! I seriously think you are undercharging for these. $5 a cookie at specialty baker. I have a friend that does them for $3 &ashes undercharging, as well. I always give her more $$, a tip.

I don't know the lady so can't judge, although I want to!! But, even if she didn't have cash-she should've pulled out her checkbook &written a check. Besides, she could've written it off her taxes with a record.

how deflating it is to one’s ego to be told, in cash, what someone thinks your time is worth.

I disagree with you here. It is not about what she thinks your time and effort are worth, it is about what she thinks her money lets her get away with.

Do you think that there is ANY chance that she will wake up and send you a check for more, or is she that unaware of the cost and time that goes into something like that? It's awful of me, but I would have told her what the cost was, and told her if she didn't have it, then you'd only be able to leave a dozen, although $20 isn't enough for even that many.

Oly gave great advice above, and I hope you do this -

" Hopefully, this will prompt you to get your intentions (donating your profits), prices, etc. clearly laid out, whether in a little brochure or a text or email form. Clearly state that you bake the cookies in exchange for a minimum donation of $1.50 per cookie, or whatever your price is, payment upon delivery (or even ask for a deposit). Add that some options will up the price per cookie (like fancier/custom decorations or ingredients or other expenses). "

Being a 'crafter' also, although with fabric, this makes me so angry at her for you that I almost wish I hadn't read it. I'm so sorry that this woman was so cheap! If it was the grandmother, I wonder if she'll mention to her daughter, the mother, what she paid, and the daughter will be shocked and somehow make it up?

Robo, I am still in shock over what your co worker did.

Rita, I didn't want to say it but.....sometimes the richest an be the cheapest :(

The wealthy one is this woman’s mother. She will send more because I demanded she pay more. But I compromised at 60 because of my own neglect. It still is below the $100-120 I expected. I think I will construct a written policy, and insist on acknowledgment by email by anyone I choose to work with. The whole thing kind of evolved because I don’t want a BUSINESS, but people kept asking. I am lucky to not need the money, and, being retired, I want the freedom to refuse. I kind of saw the whole thing as a win-win-win-win. I win because I get to engage in my hobby, the customer wins because they get something custom below market value, the Humane Society wins because they get the donation, and my family wins so they don’t have to eat so many cookies. And, Robo, how unbelievably self-centered!

Dee, I'm just so horrified as the inconsideration of those women, both the daughter and her mother! Pease let us know if you ever do receive compensation for the rest.

This is such disgusting behavior by this woman that I had to comment before reading all the comments.

First of all...I hate this woman and her mom on your behalf (I don't care...I hope she gets a pox in an intimate area),

My ire out of the way...your cookies are beautiful and you are justified by being gob-smacked. I won't suggest what to do in future--I'm sure you have it all worked out--but be assured for every person who gives you a pittance (which to me, is worse than nothing) there will be 10 more who's generosity will make up for it...

I'm so sorry that your faith in humanity (I totally get it, I always hope for, and assume, the best from people and that won't change) has been temporarily lost...

I so wish I could buy some from you---even your trial ones, or your leftovers or your crumbs...YUM!

My son works in a dog daycare type place and someone there leaves a couple of wrapped dog themed cookies on the counter for anyone wanting to donate to the local rescue that she's named...don't know if that might be a way to get the word out. Although it sounds as if you're busy with the orders you have...

Anyway. Forget her! And her mom, too!!!! (However, you DO deserve to have a decent size sulk about the whole thing for the next day or so)

Just commenting again to say that the foul language going on in my head right now would make a sailor blush!

Lol, Penny. The “decent size sulk” is what I was hoping to relieve myself of by posting here. And you all have not let me down. I asked for outrage, and got outrage! I love you all!

Oftentimes wealthy people get wealthy by NOT spending any money. And, like my mother always says, money can't buy class. Ever.

Your cookies look divine. Works of art, even. If you ever decide to make them available on line I would be a buyer. (My granddaughter's birthday is next month and she will be RIGHT HERE with me, along with her mama and daddy. She will be three!).

So many people don't really bake...they think cookies come from a 99 cent mix. I can forgive that (if they don't try to make me eat one). But after being informed of the cost and not feeling at all ashamed....ugg. That's just bad manners!

Sadly, a lot of people don't equate time to money. A friend will not sell her quilts because of the time involved in quilting them -- people don't want to pay her even half of minimum wage for the time it takes her to make the quilt. And it's that way with baked goods.

Just now seeing this thread and those cookies are magnificent! As for the lady the phrase SMH was made for her unbelievable behavior.

I think you will continue to have these problems unless you create some explicit written explanation of what your plan is. The cookies are wonderful, but I think I would be confused as well if the 'deal' was so poorly explained. On the one hand, it sounds like you do the baking because you love it and are trying to add the donation to make it a way of your giving back. On the other hand, you have had more than one instance when it turned out to be a far from joyful experience for you.

Setting up written expectations for the size of a donation per dozen cookies and notations of what 'extras' would cost would go a long to way to avoid the confrontations and hurt feelings, I think. Otherwise, I would probably just bake for my family and make my own donations without trying to combine the two by baking for other people who are having problems reconciling. the two endeavors.

Have you considered actually starting a non-profit?

ETA: just occurred to me-are you taking the tax deductions for your donations?

Yep, you got outrage alright. And then some. I’m still fumIng, especially after reading robo’s post. The girl brings in some love for her co-workers to enjoy, and one person not only spoils it for the giver, she spoils it for the whole dam office! And cheats that charity too out of what would probably have been a lot more money than $48.

wow

people can be you know..on this continuum..from "ignorant and tactless sometimes" to "full-blown idiots". I don't know where this lady lands, since I don't know her..but yeah..I'm in shock a bit here

They give exact instructions, and demands for colors and shapes, and then they think it's a donation because you apparently just can't help yourself, must keep baking..?

Don't be very sad over her..you're amazing..and your cookies are work of art

if it helps a funny story:

I'm a busy young Mom with full time job, studies, all the jazz

my friend is starting her Master's degree. She doesn't have kids yet

totally different field from mine. like, I know nothing about it.

she tells me:

-listen I need to write a big paper. For one of my classes, Can you write it instead of me, 'cause I'm busy?

I say:

-No, dear. Even if I had time..I've no idea what you're studying. It's not my field. and it's Master Degree level of "not my field". How on Earth can I write your paper?

She says:

-But you're smart! Take couple of days, read the materials..you'll get it just like that, and you'll be able to write the paper. What's the problem?

Well I refused.

And she was very displeased with me

Like I'm too capricious, you know..too egotistic..don't want to take responsibility and days upon days trying to write her paper on something I never learned about before

We're still friends..))) Good ones..

this lady-you don't need to meet her again. Makes things easier.

april _ I would love to meet you one day!

Dee, those are the sweetest cookies I think I’ve ever seen and I’m sorry about what happened to you. Some people are too self centered and self absorbed to even recognize anothers generositiy much less to respond to it in kind. They don’t appreciate the effort because they’ve obviously never given of themselves in that way. Being a kind hearted giver is not a trait people can learn, it’s something that blossoms from within and provides some of the purist joy one can have. Just like those beautiful cookies are a reflection of the person who so caringly made them, that woman’s behavior and expectations are a reflection of who she is. Lessons are learned for next time, but I hope that this situation won’t hinder you from doing things like this again in the future. (((Hugs)))

I have been thinking about this...To me, if it's inferred (or even said) that something is "for a donation" (or like wording), it might infer that you are also donating your own time and cost, too...I think if the wording is more along the lines of "I bake these in order to raise money for charity" then it sounds a bit more like you have a cost you have to cover....? Not sure but the two do have subtle differences to me.

No excuse for this woman and still kind of incensed at her lack of manners, logic, and just plain stupidity, though. Hopefully she'll think about this and have a moment of clarity in a couple days.

I hope she's hiding at home dying of embarrassment (or choking on a cookie).

Ditto, Ditto, ditto AND Ditto.

And on ditto on being happy to alleviate the problem of your family having to "endure" so many cookies!!

Those are gorgeous by the way.

That’s really cold. I’ve made many quilts for family, and several for fundraisers, but they were mostly raffles, so they raised a fair amount of money. One king size scrap quilt raised $1500 for dog rescue, it probably cost me $200-300 in materials and countless hours sewing and hand quilting. What it raised was probably about what I’d have to sell it for to make a profit. Others were smaller, throw-sized, much easier and faster to make. The raffle raises the most money, in my experience. People are willing to spend a few dollars on a chance where they might not be willing to spend what an item is really worth.

Maybe you can hold a raffle somehow for several baked goods as first, second and third prizes? Through a FB page group or sports team or other group of people that is large enough to generate some ticket sales. Someplace where you’re not competing with their own fundraising activities. Workplace? Especially with the fall and winter holidays approaching. Rolls of Tickets are available at staples. Make a poster showing the prizes to be won.

I am also outraged. Sadly, I'm not surprised. People just suck sometimes.

I don't have a story as egregious as Robo's but I do know of people who would do that sort of thing-work colleagues are so bad at that. We had a charity silent auction at work-there were things that were donated that were pretty nice but people were bidding 25 cents a pop!

I put down a $10 bid on a simple Christmas bulb that had a beaded 'jacket' and I knew that the woman who made it spent a lot of time in making it. I needed that bulb like a hole in the head but I figured it was for a fund raiser. I got so much flak from people for bidding $10 on it-only one other person had bid and they bid that 25 cent bid.

Both my sister and mother are creators. Their hands are always busy. My mom used to tie fishing flies (she is quite famous in the fishing world, Alice Conba, you can google her, which makes me laugh every time I type that) and my sister designs leather bags and other leather pieces. Both crochet too and my sister and brother are excellent photographers. Christmas is so much fun, we never quite know what any of us will get. I have seen both my sister and mother be financially "snubbed" by other people and it has always pissed me off. Sadly my mom is going blind so the crochet stuff and the flies are far and few between :-(

I am still upset about your cookies tonight. If you ever decide to have any available OL please please let me know.

Just a caution about raffles, each state has their own rules.

Interesting thoughts spawned by some of the comments. As far as the rich getting rich by not spending money. If the RICH are not likely to pay for the custom work of these cookies let alone the quality--who would? I am not disagreeing with that statement per say but I also think the rich want what they want and will pay the price to get it, very often. Heck waltz over to the decorating site and see the INSANE money people are spending to redo perfectly good/beautiful rooms just because they can!! While I sympathize with the awkward situation. These things often happen to those who are uncomfortable with the "business" end of their creating. If I did the math correctly you were hoping for closer to $2 per cookie. Walk into a bakery. See the cookies of similar type (for sure yours would taste 1000xs better) but just on looks. I don't think you could get one for under $4 each. Your pricing seems more than fair, so the only way to avoid this issue is to decide. Will I do this for family and friends as my gift to them or will I bite the bullet and conduct baking like a business and be professional and upfront about my expectations? Truth is the value in anything is truly only what another will pay for it. Craftsmanship, the creators time invested---RARELY is fairly compensated. People do not get rich selling their wares at Vendor/craft shows!!!!

I guess what bothers me most about this is that it is disheartening to someone trying to do good.

I have worked in dog rescue for many years, and two of the many things I have learned are 1) never work through a mediary and 2) there are some cheap a@@ people out there. Fortunately there are also many kind and generous people.

Just want to say that your cookies are fabulous! If I lived in your area I would be thrilled to make a generous donation and receive cookies or buy them outright. You are right that this arrangement can be a win-win. A written policy and written/email confirmation of understanding of the policy will help you avoid people who are either clueless or out to take advantage of the situation.

There is nothing else to say that hasn't been said, just wanted you to know I'm flabbergasted. Your cookies are beautiful.

Awesome job with the cookies and kindness, Don’t let awful people get you down.

From what I hear of some of the fantastically talented people here, it would be great if Houzz could have a marketplace section for forum members to put the word out about what they sell...

Excellent idea penny!

This seems like a communication problem. You need to specifically tell people what your charge ( for yourself or for donation) and they will agree or not. Going thru a 3rd party (your DIL) added to the confusion. Most people do not comprehend how long it takes to create something. Don't beat yourself up over this. Live and learn.

Beautiful cookies, stupid woman.

I think you should charge AT LEAST the going rate if not more. How many of us have bought overpriced KRAP for fundraisers?

Create a very simple webpage, and send people to that page with all the details.

Handmade cookies are luxury goods. Buyers of luxury goods are not usually price sensitive. No reason to give them bargains!

Dee, I don't know why I didn't see this yesterday, but I do share your outrage. I'm glad you were able to recover your costs, but you were nicer than I would have been (if my shock didn't get in the way of me acting). I'd like to think I'd have told her to keep the $20 and go buy the girls some Oreos and then taken the cookies to be donated elsewhere. Sharing this post better prepares us all to deal with these situations. With the sweet 16 theme, the options might be more limited, but wouldn't it have been fun to take them to an assisted living or senior center and let the ladies and gents reminisce on their days of yore? I'd like to think I'd have done that before leaving them with an ungrateful person or less than $100-120. That's really pretty minimal, and it would have been well worth it to sit down and share some stories with those folks or just to imagine them enjoying it. You can't go to a fast food place and get an undecorated, machine made, full of preservatives and other junk cookie for less than $1-2 per cookie. And if she has a 16 yr old daughter, I do not believe she didn't know that. Good grief.

Robo, the only way I would let that woman get away with that stunt is if I didn't know about it before she left the building. That is not just wrong to the person baking but also to everyone else who was intended to enjoy them and benefit.

I don’t understand why you don’t just make and sell cookies and donate what you earn, minus the ingredients’ cost, to charity. If you don’t want to run a business run a boutique—tell people no if you are busy or you just don’t want to make cookies for them.

As others have said the whole thing seems very convoluted and it’s giving you way too much aggravation. The truth is you can do charity or you can do sales and trying to mix the two isn’t going to work. You’re trying to sell while framing it as giving—it’s kind of hard to blame others for being confused.

However please accept this from someone without as much tolerance for foolishness as I once had, who wouldn’t have ever slaved to prepare dozens of bespoke baked creations for someone I don’t know without clearly conveying my expectations to the recipient. Especially if as in your situation the time, energy and expense was substantial.

The recipient may have been boorish but I suspect you are angry at yourself for allowing her to take advantage of you and that’s why it’s hard to let this one go. Clarify your expectations to yourself and then be clear to others is my advice.

Running, absolutely right; I am most angry at myself. BTW, I still have not received any additional money, though she said she would send it to school to my son, who is a teacher. Perhaps, she’s waiting until payday. Again, thank you everyone. I am formulating a better plan.

Dee, thanks for taking my comments in the spirit intended--believe me my tough shell is made of scar tissue! I've lost count of how many times I killed myself doing something, that I volunteered to do, which ended up not only consuming my time and energy but which was met with blank indifference for how hard I'd worked.

One of the only things that I don't mind having atrophy as I age is my give-a-damn muscle. It's attached to my I'll-do-it joint which is also almost gone....LOL

^^^^

Why does it take so long for some of us to figure this stuff out?

I have to admit that I'm a bit confused about what actually happened. Also, why the person specified design, size etc of the cookies. Sweet 16? Did she have a specific occasion in mind?

However, if you want to raise money for charities by donating your amazing cookie baking skills, the easiest would be to say: I am offering hand made cookies to benefit charity so-and-so. If you want to participate by purchasing xy number of cookies, the suggested price is xy.

As mtn said, people buy a lot of stuff to benefit charities and realize that the main purpose isn't to get a bargain. In my area, such cookies go for 4-5.00/piece,and they don't taste particularly good.

nosoccerman, I was only giving cookies to friends and family, then a few neighbors and more casual friends asked, and from those I asked a donation. This woman was the first I baked for whom I did not personally know. She asked for 5 dozen pink and gold princess and number 16 cookies for her daughters’ birthday party, but the request came through my DIL. While I DO blame myself for not setting parameters up front, I think it is the height of nerve to ask for so many specialty cookies knowing you are only giving $20.

Dee, you will get no argument there! And it is even nervier that she has not paid the balance. I like nosoccermom's idea but I would change "suggested" price to "minimum" price, and I would set that price at the top end of the going rate. For some reason, some people think "donation" means that it is okay to give whatever piddly amount they feel like, even if their donation does not cover the cost of the goods that they are helping themselves to. In other words, they are donating to themselves. We here are aghast at that behavior, but I think it is fairly common. Uncool, but common.

You got me all riled up again. $4 a dozen?! Can you buy 'nilla wafers for that?!!!!!!

Unbelievable. The cookies are gorgeous and would cost at least $50 per dozen here if not more. I hope she sends the additional money but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

Robo-That story about your coworker leaves me speechless.