The issues that affect successful plant growth/bloom are the following ...

.

Water (Adequate ... but not too much).

Light (12-14 hours of bright light per day)

Fertilizer (typically, a quarter-teaspoon per watering) - To be more exact in your fertilization, you can make up a gallon of fertilized water to use as the weeks/months go by. I was not particularly impressed with Dyna-Grow. Jack's Classic works well for me.

Pot size (No larger than 1/3 the width of the plant diameter)

Temperature (70-80 degrees consistently - no cold/hot drafts)

Potting material (loose, porous - repot at least once/year)

.

Give us the rundown on what happens after you acquire a new violet.

How long before the violet begins to "fail" ?

Does your violet bloom again ?

Do you wick water ? If not, how do you water ?

What's the condition of the soil tour violets come home in ? I rarely repot right after bringing a plant home.

And I assume that you've checked your water supply for Chloramine ???

Aegis,

Here is the rundown:

Violets seem to start growing smaller leaves than at the nursery very soon after buying, A few weeks tops. You can tell by looking at the new ones coming out from the center.

Yes, the violets have typically bloomed again but never quite with the numerous blooms they come with from the store.

I had one exception...when I left them outside on the deck for 3 months on their own ( with strictly mother nature's care). This was during a long summer trip overseas and my daughter didn't let me throw them away.

When we returned they were blooming happily and one developed some really nice blooms inside, soon after that.

But in my normal conditions indoors...they typically grow smaller in foliage over time and with fewer blooms.

I do not wick water. I water regularly, by hand, from the top (but not on the leaves). I will admit I may have committed some sins such as letting them get a tad too dry before watering, so maybe this adds up over time; but I am trying to keep them nice and moist all the time.

Soil seems fine. They do seem to do better when still in the soil from the nursery which I leave them in for a while. After I re-pot with my own - with the soil recommended on these forums (1/3 AV, 1/3 vermiculite, 1/3 perlite) - they get worse. They don't seem to like this "thirds" combination. I think they dry up too quickly this way. They prefer the mossy moist thing from the nursery.

We have a filter for chlorine so I don't think this is the issue. But it may need replacing so maybe I should start using distilled/spring water?...

Hmmm...

Hi Begonia, I'm responding because my conditions are sort of similar to yours, but I don't have the problems you describe. I grow in an east/southeast window, though I have filmy window shades which are closed unless it's cloudy outside, so they get very little direct bright light.

I water only with spring water - the cheapest store brand - because my tap water is run through a water softener, and years ago all my plants slowly died as a result of watering with that.

I use Optimara potting mix and Optimara fertilizer - 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of water. Most of my plants are in Oyama pots, although a few are in regular pots, and they do well also. I like to keep them in pots as small as I can get away with. Only the largest - 12" -15" in diameter are in 4" pots. The rest I keep in 3" Oyama pots.

Most of my plants do very well in those conditions. Good luck.

Switch to (gallon) jugged Spring water from your grocery/drug-store, etc.

Don't depend on local water source/water filtration.

It made a world of difference for me.

P.S. I don't use Vermiculite in my soil mixture. My plants do fine with half Violet soil mix, half Pearlite.

Also, wait until the top of the soil feels dry and the pots feel light before watering again.

Hello all,

Thank you all very much for your suggestions.

I can switch to spring water.

I am not sure I can change the lighting situation though.

I don't have windows with only filtered bright light and I don't want to place any sheers in the kitchen where I have them now - for esthetic purposes. My kitchen design works much better with nothing in the windows.

They sit on this stand, in the corner:

Now that the strong summer sun is over, I will keep an eye on them to see if the stems get longer and the leaves wider.

I really think it may have been the watering practices or too much fertilizer dropped in the watering can at times.

Over the years, I have found it generally difficult to always walk the fine line between watering enough to always have them slightly moist/avoid letting them go dry and watering a bit too much, too soon.

In my experience, it takes only one wrong watering (too late or too soon) to send the violet into root rot mode.

I have tried wicks in the past but I find them cumbersome.

I really wanted to find an easy-care approach for the few AV-s I keep on this stand, without too much fuss. This is why I have only 3--5 max AV-s at one time.

I am thinking of trying Oyama pots if that would spare me of always trying to remember to water in time and just right.

aegis,

Your violets are gorgeous - but then again, you are the Goddess of AV-s ! :-)

I would love to add Optimara Rhapsodie to my collection - what is the best place to but it from? Directly from Optimara?

Candy Swirls is adorable too!

As for my kitchen windows - yes.

That is the "IT" place in my house. :-)

My most favorite area - because there are windows on three walls here - going all around the breakfast area, plus two ceiling light windows above. So it's almost like a sun room.

This is the only place in the house with taller ceilings which go into a cathedral shape. The rest of the house is 8" ceilings across the board which means it is usually dark-ish except briefly during the morning or late afternoon when the sun is low enough in the sky.

Otherwise, the house gets rather dim - everywhere except the breakfast area.

This is why I can't place the AV-s anywhere else but there and I keep thinking that I need to find some varieties that can deal with my windows as they are.

For years I have favored Optimaras because I'd heard they are tough and easy to grow by amateurs; but I wonder whether Optimaras may actually be bred to do well under relatively low light conditions. So they react with short stems and small leaves that curl under when they are hit by my direct eastern morning sun. (??)

I find that AVs tend to thrive with the most light I can give them (and I'm in Arkansas). I have one that is in a full southern window and it grows the nicest rosetttes (as well as good bloom), so I don't really think that your high light conditions are the problem.

Why is mine in a southern window? That's where I started the leaf and just shoved it where there was available space...and it's been there for almost three years now.

Oh Irina, that's the flour dipped one. All the floury leaves are finally gone.

Probably a combination of high fertilizer and something else - it is not easy to find a good spot with all these gorgeous windows - it will be either too much light or not enough. Great idea - to use Oyama pots. Make sure that your soil has plenty of perlite - like 50% and pure perlite in a bottom well. I think Violetshowcase.com sells Oyama pots with an appropriate soil and perlite in baggies- so you do not need to buy a lot - and you will get everything already premixed.

You have a great resource - African Violet Club of Greater Atlanta

check the contacts on this site. http://avsa.org/affiliates-region4

Every area has different know-how - you better check with a local growers. They say - visitors are always welcome.

Begonia ... first of all, I'm just a regular guy ...

I typically don't make a big deal about it, ... and I used to be a bit embarrassed by my love of growing African Violets, ... but since I met (had acquaintance with) Fred, Jeff, Leon, Paul, and others on this site, I've felt that I'm in better "guy" company. Also, there are the great "guys" of AV provision, Lyndon (Lyon), Paul (Sorano), Ken (Stork), Jeff (Smith), and Ralph Robinson (of Violet Barn),

Honestly, I like to grow all kinds of things. I spent 7 years working on my home landscaping ... before I got back to my love of growing violets. If I had had my druthers, I might have been a farmer.

So, I'm just a city country boy who has spent years working on learning to grow African Violets ... and who, happily, has gained some level of capacity for it. Though I've experienced a lot of African Violet failure, as well. I've discarded hundreds of failed attempts.

.

As to Optimaras, I've had varying success with them. Today, I grow O Harlequin, O Yellowstone, O EverBeautiful, and Rhapsodie Ingrid pretty well.

BTW ... Rhapsodie Ingrid is available from www.SelectiveGardener.com (Optimara distributor).

http://www.selectivegardener.com/INGRID-4-IN-Optimara-New-Variety-p521.html

.

P. S. Like dbarron, I've never had a problem with giving my violets too much light.

AV Farmer Aegis - I was laughing. We oldtimers know that you are a man, more of it - that you have a wife! Who puts up with all these plants.

aegis,

I have been reading your posts on the AV forum for many years now - and please forgive me...I don't know why I walked away with the idea that you were a lady!

It has nothing to do with the hobby of growing AV-s - because I read posts from many other guys here throughout the years so I know there are men interested in growing this plant too.

I sincerely believe that most men nowadays need a good dose of going back to nature, in one form or another.

(Actually, they need a good dose of going back to all sorts of other things, in my opinion :-))))))) ).

Most are now full-blown "city boys", as you put it, who just press buttons of electronic gadgets, watch screens and think that's cool. It's not. Many never learned how to knock a nail, fix something, least of all deal with a yard or plants.

In my book, that's a major loss of manliness per capita. :-)

But I am not going to get into the subject of where exactly our modern society is taking poor guys...because usually, nothing good comes out of such discussions. Not in our times - ha, ha.

In sum - any kind of gardening interest, including growing AV-s, is very manly in my opinion; a whole lot manlier than watching TV and playing video games.

Thank you for the tip on Ingrid - Optimara seems a bit pricey between cost of plant and shopping but I might just have to order this plant from them; unless I can find a leaf somewhere. I have been successful with leaves in the past.

I think the light might only be a problem in the summer.

It is the South here, after all, and even morning/Eastern sun - when it falls directly on the leaves during the summer, it can be a lot. My violets also tend to curl downwards (note the first I posted) which may indicate that they're recoiling from the direct sunlight.

My seasonal homework will be to observe whether they may change behavior a bit during the cold season.

Right now for example it's bit overcast and despite all these windows, they are barely getting 500 footcandles - which is the minimum required.

It's a lot like that in the winter so the difference should be significant from the blast of morning sun they get in the summer for a few hours.

No worries, Begonia ... it's a hazard of the hobby.

As to Selective Gardener, their upside is that you get full-size plants, often in full bloom, and they know how to pack them well. Sometimes, that's worth the cost.

So sorry to bring this back - but I continue to be intrigued by what happens to my AV-s after they arrive in my house. It really is a mystery I cannot figure out, after all these years of trying to follow all the rules.

Less than 2 weeks after I bought my new AV-s (recently), the leaves in the center started to acquire much shorter stems than the outer ones. Leaves' surface is also getting smaller. It's an absolute trend with ALL of them. These new ones sure follow the same pattern as all have before. Here's one:

Even the one I successfully grew from leaf is growing with short stems.

What in the world?

At first I thought it was normal for AV-s to grow smaller/shorter leaves than the ones at the nursery because supposedly, they have ways to artificially force AV-s to grow very large.

But then I realized I have seen AV-s in other people's houses and they all grow larger, more vigorous, and with longer stems than mine do.

There is something specific in my household that seems to make them not like it here and turns them small and tight. They continue to live, some even bloom again several times, but they surely start getting smaller, shorter and tighter right after they arrive. Leaves also curl a bit and tend to form a bubbly surface. Over time, the blooming becomes less prolific too.

At first I thought it was too much direct sun or too much fertilizer (it turned out I might have actually given them too little). But now I don't think it's either of these.

It is surely not disease either.

I think it's either my water or the fact that they are in the kitchen where we have a gas stove - even though the stove is all the way at the other end of the room.

I have started watering them with spring water but it's too soon to tell any difference.

Drives me crazy.

Is there any way to measure if there is even a bit of gas leak? Unless someone fails to perfectly turn the stove knob and then we smell something right after that, there shouldn't be any gas leaks. We sure don't smell anything normally.

Thank you again for all your opinions.

I also wonder whether AV-s are more sensitive to gas leaks than other plants.

My orchid and other plants seem fine in the kitchen.

I don't know, begonia2015. Your plants look pretty good to me. I just looked at my 30-odd AV's and many of them have what you call short stems and smaller leaves in the crown center, and they bloom profusely and do just fine. The new leaves in the crown center are always going to be small until they mature. If your plants bloom well, I don't think you have a problem. If they don't bloom, that's another story.

I’m going to jump in here without reading all the other comments. I live in Florida and My violets look like that too. In my case it is the window tint that comes on the vast majority of windows here. The tint filters out a key component of the sun that AVs need to grow properly. I added a small desk lamp with LED bulb On a table to shine on the AVs in addition to being on the windowsill. What a difference it made! The LED light put back what the window tint took away! Thanks to Aegis1000 for the recommendation on the lamp! Being you live in ATL area I am guessing you might have a window tint problem too!

Marianne,

Would that tint be visible? I am not aware of any tint my windows may have, unless it is not visible to the naked eye.

Judy,

I don't know...that's what I wanted to think too at first. But if you saw them in reality, you would see how tight and much smaller they get compared to the leaves they had at the nursery. Over time, all leaves get much smaller, not just in the center.

Some bloom again but less than originally; and eventually much less, until the violet becomes stunted and it doesn't bloom anymore or too little to matter.

There's got to be something wrong in the culture.

Now I suspect some gas exposure, if only for the fact that we have a gas stove.

I don't think it necessarily leaks but when you turn the gas on and off, some gas is bound to escape.

Well, I will advocate that the gesneriad family does seem sensitive to gas and fumes. I lived with my father while my mother was committed to a rest home, so that I could be near them. They used one of those unvented propane stoves that hangs on the wall. My streps and primulinas complained every winter once that thing got turned on (and even threatened to die). It made me wonder how horribly bad it was on me, as I felt much better when I moved back out.

I didn't have any violets at that time, so...assuming they would have reacted too.

Orchids are quite sensitive to gas so if they are ok, chances are your violets do not suffer from a gas leak. If some of your plants are Optimara, be aware they are really low light plants. Most that I have purchased from stores will eventually bunch in the center and oftentimes the shape of the leaf will change unless I keep them at the very edge of my light stands or at a distance from the windows. I recall a discussion on some forum about the "shrinking Optimaras" so others have this problem also. I don't know if too much light is your problem or if its water, fertilizer, or a combination of all. I realize it is very frustrating not to be able to pinpoint the problem.

Terri

terilou,

Since this is a problem I've had for years and I own only Optimaras - I myself remember that discussion about the shrinking Optimaras.

Maybe I should buy one or two from a specialty store to see how they behave. I had some in the past from Violet Barn and Lyndon Lyon but I killed them all. Optimaras seemed to be much easier than those.

It is possible that during the warm season, the direct Eastern sun my Optimaras get during some parts of the day may be too much for them. But if I place them anywhere else in the house, they will hardly get any light at all, because my house is generally on the "low light" side due to its 8" ceilings, except the kitchen and brief periods during the day for all other rooms. (Ask me how much I like that).

But the cold season sun in the kitchen shouldn't be that much even for Optimaras.

Often times - like right now - it is very cloudy and dreary outside and there's hardly any natural light on them, even though they are surrounded by windows on all sides.

If that is the case, they should start growing better during the cold season.

But I can't say I have noticed a major difference in growth between the cold and warm seasons. I will keep a close eye on them this winter.

To avoid the dry-wet cycle, I also placed two of them on Optimara's Watermaids ( a sort of wicking method) just to see if they do better this way.

It is indeed frustrating to not know what exactly it is that keeps these plants not developing as they should. Light level, watering methods, fertilizer or pollution in the environment? Humidity they get from saucers with pebbles.

So it's kind of like: "Gee, what else can I do for you"?

I mean...they are alive, mind you - but I really wish they had longer, stems, wider, less tight leaves and a less bubbly,curled surface.

And in the end - more prolific bloom.

Fluorescent lights and wick watering will be my hint.

And you need to befriend a local grower.

We all have different issues - we live all over the globe... whatever works for me in CO - is probably counterproductive in FL.

If you attend a local AV show - even if "local" will be 3 hours drive...you will meet the people who figured it out. Talk to them.

Controlled light, higher ambient humidity of the air and soil with wick watering - will enable you to have them blooming most of the time. Windowsill growing gives you good bloom in spring and fall - and they more or less hybernate in winter, and get too much light in summer - it is hard to decide when it is enough - or too much - if you have 3 hours too bright - and then sun hides behind the large tree.

Redeeming thought - there is no fluorescent light in Uzumbara mountains ... so in mother nature Saintpaulias live in cracks in the northern side of the rocks... the caterpillars eat them.. and they continue to bloom and produce seeds. Some more, some less. Depending how good is this spot.

Thak you, Irina.

Maybe I should accept some limitations with my AV-s considering I decided a while ago to stick with window-sill growing.

I do it mainly for decorative purposes and I simply don't have the space or decor to accommodate placing them under artificial lights but also to protect them from direct sun through the window. Maybe one day I will return to growing under artificial lights. I did it at some point and I remember some degree of success but nothing mind blowing.

I just really wanted to switch to only a few that can fit on my window corner shelves without the mess of artificial lighting.

I have a few extended family members who grow them like that, in windows, and they always seem to have a few in bloom, plus their leaves are much larger and less tight.

Their approach seems to be largely one of neglect because I often find their plants with dried leaves and blooms (non-groomed), hardly moist soil (almost dry), etc; yet somehow, their plants seem to do better than mine. They don't know anything "professional" about AV-s either, but just fly by the seat of their pants.

By contrast I fuss around them with all the professional info I acquired over the years and follow as many rules as I can - and my plants do much less well.

I remember my sister once accompanied me at the home of these family members I am talking about and upon seeing their AV-s, she asked me: why are yours always so small?

These people live in the same area as I do, not another part of the country.

I guess all these apparent anomalies will remain part of the History of AV Mystery. :-)

"I just really wanted to switch to only a few that can fit on my window corner shelves without the mess of artificial lighting.

I have a few extended family members who grow them like that, in windows, and they always seem to have a few in bloom, plus their leaves are much larger and less tight."

Have you ever consulted with them to get their advice ?

Generally, shorter stems means a plant is getting more, rather than less, light.

Another thing that I'm reminded of from my distant past, what temperature is the room kept where you have your violets? Excess cold (or lack of heat) seemed to produce symptoms very similar to yours for me, long ago.

For those whose AVs perform better, do they keep their houses warmer?

There are a couple of youtube videos I found informative. Both Optimara and Lyndon Lyon grow finished plants under the natural light. Glass roof greenhouses - with controlled amount of light coming through. Our Polina visited LLG - and they cover the glass with a special paint in summer to reduce the brightness. Since there is no trees - or shingles on the roof - there is a lot of natural light coming - and it is on all day long. With all the plants around - humidity should be quite high, there is an additional heat in winter - and some kind of heat control in summer.

Since we are not going to build a climate control greenhouse anytime soon.. I think... - we can add supplemental light - or not. It is hobby, for crying out loud, not a career for us.

So it all depends on ambitions - if a windowsill is just enough - and 2-3 bloom cycles a year - is plenty to enjoy - and anticipate - it is fine. If you want to have a compact stand in a corner with artificial light - why not. May be not now, but when you will have more time to play.

I.

I am bringing this back for update purposes, just in case it might help others with the same problem.

I think I finally solved the mystery. For years, I had this issue of leaves shrinking and becoming much smaller and tighter than what they came with from the nursery (see pictures at the top).

Well...turns out it WAS indeed my fertilizing habit. I was preparing the solution in a 1 quart container using a 1/4 teaspoon loading about a quarter, at eye level. Problem is with time I had started to err on the side of adding more into that 1/4 teaspoon.

I decreased the fertilizer over the past few months, also at eye level. The plants seemed to have gotten better even though leaves in the middle are still a tad short for my taste. That's probably because they get a bit of direct southern sun through my east-facing windows - so they always keep rather short and flat in the middle, sometimes even bending downwards.

Today it dawned on me that I should go ahead and follow some advice I got here a while ago and just set up a 1 gallon milk jug and mix in 1/4 tsp of fertilizer - which should take the eye-level guess work out.

I used Peter's and when I did this and looked at the water, I realized the solution is much less blue than what I was doing before in the 1-quart jug at eye level.

I was clearly using too much so my AV-s were shrinking.

I will stick with the 1 gal milk jug preparation from now on. I just didn't know where to keep that milk jug handy (can't stand clutter in the kitchen) - but I think I found a well-hidden spot.

Thank you again for the excellent advice!

Novice, Begonia, Irina, Judy, Aegis and others, what fun to have this thread revived because I was not reading the Forum last year and missed some great discussions.

Begonia, Optimara violets were specifically bred for typical home conditions of diffuse window light.

This discussion was a year ago, so Begonia might not see it.

Unlike other natural* plants, AVs, especially Optimara, were man-made, they were developed to do their best under certain specific conditions. Such as being 7 to 14 inches away from bright, indirect window light. Anything else, you won't get the desired results. Many people here do not grow Optimaras. I do, so that is why I know so much about them.

There are numerous ways to know if an AV is not getting the right light. The Optimara website might be helpful.

*Natural plants will often adapt and adjust because nature adapts. Optimaras won't. Think of them as man-made plants developed for indoor decorative use. They need the right spot to do well.

Joanne

Thank you, Joanne.

I would never dream of throwing away my AV-s. I have managed to figure them out - these here were in bloom a few months ago and then they came right back with another flush.

I look forward to adding Optimara Ingrid and Rocky Mountain but I need two extra stands to sit left and right of the stand I have now. I am looking for a wire/metal type stand, about 30" H and 24" wide - but I can't find anything.

Can I order some Optimaras now or should I wait?

I really want 2-3 more but I am afraid it's too hot to order for Georgia right now.

I also thought too much light, but also if you have a water softener do not use that water; it is salty and that might easily build up. It also looks like you are overfeeding them, too, which was mentioned above. Considering the mix you were using I doubt you could over water them provided the excess could drain away. LED lights work very well, but AVs need to get far less light than one provides for garden seedlings. That is my problem. My light garden is set up to feed transplants into the outside garden and to keep my hippeastrums and that is way too much over lighting for AVs.

OldDutch,

Thank you ! They are doing much better these days. I really think it was the extra fertilizer. It is summer now and they do have a few hours where they get direct morning sunlight. They still bloom beautifully.

I am now aching to order Ingrid Rapsodie and Rocky Mountain but I don't want the order to arrive in this heat. I am trying to be patient and wait until temperatures drop in the fall. Tal order.

Severe, Wait. Also, make sure the company has what you want in stock. Many people buy on impulse, then find they lack space or adequate shelving. "Less is more!" Avoid getting the AV collector's virus. It is incurable. ( joking)

Good on you. I sorta got wondering if it looked a bit like fertilizer burn. Roots burn easily if fed when too dry. I tend to water twice if I have left the potting soil get real dry. The first time with plain water, and then later going back over with fertilizer no stronger than half strength once the plant roots have been refreshed.

BTW I draw my water into a 2.5 gallon watering can with the rose removed, and fill my smaller watering cans out of that; so I get my water at room temperature and have a handy size to move around the containers. That is where I add my fertilizer, too, in the bottom of the big can; so the water fill mixes it pretty thoroughly. I just shove the can under the bench after filling and only pull it out to fill the smaller containers that do the actual watering. I also have a 2.5 gallon empty taping mud plastic pail beside the fertilizer one for plain water, also shoved under the table and out of the way when not needed. Which ever I need is at room temperature and should not shock anything by being too cold which tap water might well be here in Minneapolis in the winter.

Fortyseven,

Been there, done that but not anymore. :) Now I am fighting that virus on the rose front!

I have only had two AV-s for a long time and I only allow for what goes into my eastern windows in the kitchen, where I have a corner stand with 3 shelves.

Right now I have the two AV-s shown here and an orchid on the third shelf.

It's just that I realized I will want to add two lower plant stands to the left and right of the corner stand I have now to replace an awkward storage bench which I want to remove.

That is a wonderful spot with lots of perfect light for plants and I am wasting it on a worn out storage bench from Target? Many would probably agree that must change! :)

My plan is to add only two more AV-s there, that's all. That would bring it to four.

And my daughter wants one in her room. :)

Sorry to babble. I find that I cannot open new discussions here at houzz at this time, Real damn frustrating!

Judy, what do you mean by "filmy window shades?" I have a gargantuan window, ESE exposure, and I'm finding that I have to cut down the light using the blinds I have, otherwise some of my violets complain about too much sun! I can install something like a filmy curtain. What would you suggest?

@HU-277684377

I just have sheer white curtain panels hung with tension rods for mine. I have south windows. Some of my violets still say this is too much sun and are happier higher up on the plant stand than at the bottom.