The obvious question: what's in your contract?

Well, I'm assuming the additional work isn't in the contract, but does the contractor have the right to do additional work without telling me there will be an additional charge. That's the question I'm asking. For example if he had explained, dropping the ceiling with cost X or you can do it this way at no additional charge and this is why I might pay X to do it, that would be one thing. But he just said I'd recommend dropping the ceiling and I said Ok.

Did you get an estimate or a binding quote/bid?

If my contractor asked me if I wanted to drop the ceiling mid-project, and I thought he was on to something, I'd ask how much. That seems like an expensive undertaking. Extending a wall 1 foot probably isn't that expensive (depending on the wall), so I might not ask for a quote, but I'd expect to be billed for the extra studs, drywall, and time to do it.

I understand your point but also understand that I know nothing about what is involved with dropping the ceiling and how that compares with not dropping it. In other words had no clue that dropping it would be more expensive than the alternative.

I think we would need to know if there was any conversation about dropping the ceilingand if so did you ask about cost or just assume it was included. You have responsibility to ask questions .

I understand your point but also understand that I know nothing about what is involved with dropping the ceiling and how that compares with not dropping it. In other words had no clue that dropping it would be more expensive than the alternative.

If one can't understand that dropping the ceiling vs. leaving it alone involves work, and that that work incurs costs, I don't know anything I could possibly add here.

Anything different than the original scope of work costs extra. You can not possibly say with a straight face that you expected to get extra work for free?

I didn’t view it as extra work But as alternative option to doing the ceiling. I think it should’ve been explained

Your assumed is your defense? In defiance of any common sense? What does your contract say. In writing.

I didn’t view it as extra work But as alternative option to doing the ceiling.

Doing anything other than leaving it as it was before the contractor started work is extra work.

I think it should’ve been explained

Some of us are having trouble explaining things now.

Well, now you know. If it's not in your contract and you approve something, you must pay. Consider it a life lesson. What if you have the oil changed in your car and your mechanic asks if you want your radiator flushed or leave it alone. Don't you expect an additional charge for flushing the radiator?

I didnt really ask for it. He just suggested it. I honestly thought it was the easier option.

Easier than what? If it's a remodel, it seems like the choices would be to leave it as it was or change it. Was that not the case? How much extra money are we talking about?

I also got some additional costs that weren't part of the original contract but I do think in defense of OP that most GC's would state that it will cost $X to do something versus just making a suggestion that Y is an option without stating what the cost to do Y would be. It is not unreasonable for someone to assume that it is just an alternative way of proceeding with no additional costs.

I am actually not certain every single uncharge was explained to me because there are so many details that happen during construction when they actually open up the walls and discover what is lurking below them which was not contemplated during the initial bidding process.

However, all of the optional stuff was discussed before hand with a charge given for it. I didn't drop a ceiling unexpectedly but I did extend a soffit (for example) over a built in so that it looked better. What I am not 100% sure of is a small discrepancy in the final cost of tile work which was explained to me that additional expense to make the wall plumb. Perhaps they overlooked it because obviously if they had come to me and said we need to do additional work to make your wall straighter so the tiles will lay properly, I would have approved it without thinking twice - it wouldn't have been any kind of option versus stuff that was done for design purposes like extending the soffit so that the top of the cabinets didn't look weird.

When I met with my designer on site this morning to look at progress, she pointed out that she had them replace a T-Bar frame that holds up a drop ceiling in my foyer - my HVAC is in the ceiling mounted above the T-Bar drop ceiling so access is necessary. I didn't think to ask whether there was an additional charge for that nor did anyone ask whether it should be replaced prior to it being replaced. If they had asked whether they should proceed, I would of course have said yes even if there was some uncharge because it would make no aesthetic sense to keep an ugly old T-Bar frame to save a few dollars :-).

I do think remodeling requires such a lot of knowledge on the part of the homeowner so that even if one madly attempts to educate oneself on the process and the best way to proceed, one is not going to have it go 100% smoothly. There were so many moving parts that I had to focus on during my remodel that I couldn't be on top of every decision and move that was made but focused on the ones that impacted design and functionality.

The best one can hope for is that one has hired capable ethical work people who fill in the gaps in knowledge so that one can rely on them to do a good job.

I may not have done the best job explaining what happened. The ceiling was fine as it was. I would have been fine leaving it essentially the same. I did have a ceiling fan installed so that disrupted the ceiling. The paint was spackled. My contractor suggested putting a new ceiling over the spackling since my ceiling is high, and painting it smooth as an alternative to spackling. He made it seem like this was easier than doing the spackling and i didn't really have a preference so i said go ahead. The cost was about $1k.

Any revisions to your agreed-upon price should have been presented as a change order for your review and approval. A contractor with integrity would have made sure you were aware of any additional charges before proceeding.

all of the contractors that i've dealt with whisk out a change order form with a price specified which must be signed by me before they varied what the contract called for. thats 5 contractors doing multiple projects over many years and 4 different houses in 3 states. at this point i'd be pretty annoyed that they dont all work this way!

As a consumer, you need to always ask "how much?". You cannot assume every option costs the same. You cannot know option A is cheaper than option B if you don't know the cost of each. Your contractor is like a salesman. He will try to sell you more than you want/need. It's your responsibility to know what the costs are and make sound decisions.

Thank you, the first twenty posts made me think i was an idiot. Being informed of the charges seems like a step that should be taken at a minimum. A change order form would have solved this problem for sure.

you do come to dread them.....

Yep, I've always signed a change order for any substantive modification to the original contract. Seems like the GC should have provided more information up front, but it also sounds like you didn't ask many questions. Now the work is done. I think you're stuck. =/

I would consider a calm conversation with the guy telling him that you were caught off-guard by the charges, and since there was no change order you falsely assumed the work would not result in an up-charge. Let him know his business practices leave something to be desired. Then write the man a check for the amount owed. If he is anything less than gracious, feel free to post online reviews once the project is complete.

Ed,

Am I correct??? Sounds like...."ED" from other threads?

This guy is still in your house? An eight week thing that turned to six months? Am I right and you are the same "Ed"? You came home day after day to nothing done...., then you had windows with moisture in the drywall below in the same condo and those were replaced to assume a fix to said moisture issue?. Am I correct? Am I correct that you are still assuming...which only seems to get you in trouble? Yes?

"The ceiling was fine as it was. I would have been fine leaving it essentially the same. I did have a ceiling fan installed so that disrupted the ceiling. The paint was spackled. My contractor suggested putting a new ceiling over the spackling since my ceiling is high, and painting it smooth as an alternative to spackling. He made it seem like this was easier than doing the spackling and i didn't really have a preference so i said go ahead. The cost was about $1k."

My name is Alberto, Our specials today are PB AND J ON TOAST POINTS....... We also have Kobe beef, pan seared to ........with roasted fingerling potatoes with a pureed drizzle, and ..............

Which of these is more do you think? : )

If you are not the same "Ed" ignore all above except the "specials" as noted. Aurrgggh.

I don't know Jan. I don't eat Kobe beef. Why don't you tell me. Which is more?

Lol. Not the p b and j ?

I would expect to pay what was in the contract, and if changes were made, we'd do a little paperwork. If you feel you can talk to the guy, talk to him.

There are some here who always side with the contractor unless the contractor is clearly at fault in which case it's the fault of the homeowner for hiring the contractor. :)

This one too, Ed? I really do hope this guy finishes in your lifetime. Glad you found a solution.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/small-chips-in-tiles-new-tiles-remodel-dsvw-vd~5505142

I did have a ceiling fan installed so that disrupted the ceiling. The paint was spackled. My contractor suggested putting a new ceiling over the spackling...

Do you mean that the ceiling was textured?

Is the 'ceiling fan' a bathroom exhaust fan?

What was the extent of the 'disruption'?

...understand that I know nothing about what is involved with dropping the ceiling and how that compares with not dropping it. In other words had no clue that dropping it would be more expensive than the alternative....

Generally speaking, when you 'drop' a ceiling you are going to need to buy framing material (lumber), drywall, nails & screws and materials to finish the drywall...corner bead, drywall compounds, tape, etc. and pay someone to go to the store to purchase the material, load it onto their pickup or trailer and tote it back to the job site. And then install all of it. So, it will cost more than doing nothing.

Because you had a 'ceiling fan' installed where, presumably one did not exist prior to the remodel, the ceiling had to be cut open for the fan to be installed. Which possibly required a large opening for framing to be installed to support the fan, run the ductwork and install wiring and a wall switch to control the fan. So, the proposal to drop the ceiling may have been 'easier' so far as accomplishing all of the above but more expensive because it required more labor and materials.

'Easier' does not always equate to being less costly. It is 'easier' to hire someone than to do it yourself. It is 'easier' to order take-out but it is cheaper to cook at home....

Any timea proposal to deviate from Plan A comes up, the first words out of my mouth are 'How much?' With that info, then I weigh cost vs benefit.

So far as the cost to lower the ceiling, IMO, all things considered (like the cost of doing business for the self-employed) the 1K charge for dropping the ceiling was not out of line. You get a nice new ceiling (vs a perhaps less than perfect patch and attempt to match existing texture), no wall patches? (running the new wire to a new switch?) and a cozier bathroom. And, 'next time' you will know to ask 'How much?'

Thanks that detailed response is much appreciated. i had no reason to ask how much because I had no idea it would cost more than the alternative option. It may be obvious to everyone here but not to me. I’m sure I know a lot about other topics that people here wouldn’t have a clue about. I read through contract this am and says anytime work added should be confirmed in writing. At a minimum I should’ve been notified. That’s just good business practice and an experienced contractor should not overlook that step.

Ed - The fact that the contract states "...any time work is added should be confirmed in writing..." One could then assume if in writing was not obtained then the work is not considered to be added.

IMO, the contractor is asking for customer push-back by not informing the customer of additional charges and not getting the additional charges in writing, regardless of whether the contact calls for it or not. While I agree that additional work calls for additional charges, the contractor needs to let the customer know how much extra they are expected to pay BEFORE the work is done. How is the customer supposed to determine if the additional charges are within their budget if the contractor doesn't tell them how much it's going to cost? If it's a time and materials additional charge, the customer should be informed of that as well. Is the customer just supposed to open up their wallet after the fact and say, "Take whatever you want"?

Ed, dropping a ceiling requires extra supplies, and extra time.

Of course you should have asked.

The horse is out of this barn for you, I fear.

Yes that point has been made.

If I were you I'd ask your contractor if he has his copy of the change order where you OK'd the additional charges. Because any added costs have to be approved in writing before work is done or they won't be paid for. Since he didn't submit anything you assumed his suggestion did not included any more costs and might be a savings for you. This is your understanding and position. It doesn't matter what people on this forum consider realistic. This is what contracts are for.

Kristin Petro Interiors, Inc. is right on point, In construction in general one should allow for unforeseen circumstances that may arise ( and they always do,) your contract and construction drawings are binding. Anything not included in them is extra. But you should be notified prior to your G.C doing anything.

The agreed scope of work should be reflected in the contract documents which should include a well-detailed set of plans/specs and a contract that clearly defines the process for dealing with changes and hidden conditions. The client should always be informed of the need for a change and the associated cost, if any, before the work is performed.

Regarding hidden conditions, it's not possible to anticipate everything that might present itself after the walls and ceilings are peeled back. That said, your remodeler should spend some time performing due diligence to infer what may be in a wall that's getting removed and whether it is load bearing. This may involve crawling around in the crawl space or basement, investigating whatever structure is exposed in the attic and making use of wall scanners, fiber optic cameras, etc. In the limit, a little bit of careful "investigative demolition" can go a long way to preventing "surprises" during remodeling.