Crl, Sometimes it is cheaper to be new than used. My 2003 Forrester new was less than the used cars I looked at, and MIL got a new Mazda 3 for less than a CPO. I want to say my CPO Outback had either 1.9 or 2.9% financing, though I already had a credit union loan approved. I paid it off early so I don't remember exactly.

1929, that was excellent.

No one has mentioned leasing a car. Don't do it. I used to work for an auto financing company and I can tell you that car leases are a big disadvantage to the car owner. The calculation to arrive at the lease payment and the final FMV are both complex and can be arbitrary depending on who the customer is. At least when you buy a car, the price is the price, and you can compare it to other purchase prices.

I disagree with Sophie's rec to keep your old car, for the reasons that Lukkiirish stated. The newer cars have all the safety features the old cars do not. This is life and death we are talking about.

Some tips - 1. don't only research the car, research the dealerships around you. Websites like cars dot com have customer reviews on the dealerships and how good or not they are to work with. 2. If the salesperson is stalling and making you hang out in the dealership for long periods of time, just up and leave. That tactic is to both to wear you down so you just want to get it over with, and also to delay you from visiting competitor dealerships. 3. Similarly, it's OK for one check with "my manager", but if the salesperson is repeatedly going back to check with his/her manager, just leave. 4. Again, the dealership - it's not just the sales experience, but later repairs and maintenance you will have to have with them while the car is under warranty. Make sure you trust them and like them. 5. Be careful if a dealership is the only one for miles for that manufacturer. That means they have no competition in the area, and will have no incentive to treat you well. My mother's dealership is like this; the nearest one besides the one she has to use is 20+ miles away. So they are jerks.

I wish I could just appoint someone--1929, do you live close to me?--and have a new car show up in my driveway. Buying a new car, or even a newish used car, does not sound like fun to me, at all. My old CRV is looking better than ever!

If I can over-simplify: Once the car/model/features are decided upon, it comes down to $$$. Do some research, zero in on a price that seems about right, and shop around until you find something close to it. What's the savings by doing that, as opposed to walking in to a dealership one morning and driving away with a new car? Can I save $1K? More? Because $1K seems a small price to pay to avoid the (perceived) stress of buying a new car. I enjoy research, but not the in-person faceoff.

Ha! I’m in So. Cal.

Remember that the interwebz is your friend. Between the research and the initial contact via email, you can spend very little time at the dealership. You can do the deal before you even get there. You just finish up with the F&I person (finance and insurance). They might try and sell you a warranty or some cr@ppt insuramce, but they probably won’t waste much time trying to convert your loan that already comes with a super low interest rate (cuz you researched that one too.

One last thing about zero interest loans. What makes these loans still possible is they are supplemented by the higher price of the car. If you compare the interest paid on an outside loan, often it’s less than the total you saved on a zero interest package at the dealership.

Buying a new car, or even a newish used car, does not sound like fun to me, at all.

Heh. I just had a root canal to clean out an abscess in my jaw, and I'd rather have that done to all my teeth than go car buying.

When we bought with a zero interest loan, we negotiated price first. We had a pre approved loan from a credit union, Total package was cheaper than buying used with the credit union loan and cheaper than buying new with the pre approved loan.

Our recent purchase of a Forester was negotiated price first then we decided to finance because the rate was low enough that it made sense rather than paying cash.

Is a zero interest loan like when I buy a new iPhone? Zero interest means I pay no interest; I just pay a set amount over X years?

I could pay cash for, say, a Forester.. But I don't want to. After my CRV was paid off in 2008, I decided to just save the $400/mo payments anyway. I'm still doing that today. Of course, the money has found its way into investments and bathroom remodels, but the point is, I can afford a monthly payment.

crl, who gave you the zero interest loan? Was it the pre-approved loan from your credit union, or from the dealership? But that wasn't for your Forester?

*Usually* its either/or. You either get $2500 dealer cash (for example) or 0% financing. Its rare to get both, unless your car choice is one that few people want. The more popular the vehicle the less play there is in the price.

I usually buy vehicles nobody else wants. Right now those are the 4 door sedans.

I tried to help my sister buy a Subaru. In my humble opinion, there are few deals to be had out there on the popular models. Ymmv.

Bunny, there is a special on the Forester. From my dealer website. In the past, the 0% was often for 36 months. If you need longer, it is a higher rate.

• No down payment required. Offer may vary by location. Other rates and payment terms available. Cannot be combined with any other incentive. Financing for well-qualified applicants only. Length of contract is limited. Subject to credit approval, vehicle insurance approval and vehicle availability. See participating retailers for details. Must take delivery from retailer stock by October 31, 2018.

Bunny, this is an aside, but have you considered leasing a car? We always owned, but now we are doing both. I really like driving a new model car and knowing that it will be returned before anything major happens. I'm on my second leased Ford Escape.

We also still own our 2004 CRV. It's the one we lend out to our DD's. It was my oldest's from college.

eld, I haven't considered leasing. I don't care so much about a car's newness or ahhhhh factor. Safety and reliability come first. My CRV has no dents or major dings, just the odd scratch and paint chip here and there. Overall, it looks really nice (when I get it washed) but I don't need to stress over the first scratch.

I'm wondering if I should just get a new roof. :p

You may not have seen my note above cautioning against leasing a car. It is always a worse deal for the consumer, always. The convenience of returning the car after 3 years isn't really an advantage.

Yeah, I'm not considering leasing.

There are zero new safety features in a new car over a 2000 era car that are truly worth buying. There is s ton more wonky electronics and things that are expensive that go wrong. Air bags were the big leap in driving safety. There isn’t anything since then that has made any but the smallest of differences.

The newest vehicle that I own is 2008, and it’s a special exception. Everything else qualifies for antique tags, and costs far less to maintain annually than a new car note. By thousands and thousands. If you pay attention to the service schedule, owning an older car is a way way better financial decision.

On the occasions that I want to drive 600 miles on a road trip, I can spend less on a car rental than I would on a single month’s car note.

No, it doesn't have the new car smell. But if you get it professionally detailed, it can. They have an auto scent called “New Car Smell”.

"There are zero new safety features in a new car over a 2000 era car that are truly worth buying...The newest vehicle that I own is 2008, and it’s a special exception"

Sophie, I do not agree with you. Nor does the Insurance Institute of Highway Safety. Your post reads like you are promoting owning a car that's more than a decade old cause that's what you have.

Dh has been trying to get me to buy a new car for years. I finally said ok to test driving a Subaru. To tell you the truth I can't remember if I drove an Outback or a Forester. Just wasn't for me. I hated all the bells & whistles and felt a little cramped driving. I wasn't, but the feeling was there. It was odd.

I have a 2000 4Runner and love it. Don't care for the design of the new ones, so no desire to test drive. I have been eyeing the Rav4. Maybe one of these days I'll give it a try.

Dh bought his Odyssey at the end of 2008. He got it fully loaded for a few thousand less than a new 2009 not fully loaded.

Good luck!

A friend just bought a new Tesla. Inside it smells like a new, well-appointed office.

Bunny, we’ve gotten zero percent financing from Ford in the past for a Ford purchase (maybe our second Escort?)

Our Forester was not zero percent (I think it was 1.9) but it was lower than we make in mutual funds so it made sense to leave the money invested and finance the purchase.

(Dh’s more recent purchase of his VW Atlas was cash because we didn’t get any good financing offers.)

The zero or really low rates are only through the car makers, not through a credit union. They are an incentive to buy their particular car.

And yes, we just made/make payments same as any other loan.

I hope that makes sense!

(Teslas intrigue me. I think it is possible that eventually we will give my Forester to ds and buy a new car for me. I’d love a plug in with reserve gas tank and all wheel drive. Maybe one will be in the market by the time I’m ready to buy.)

I haven't taken a ride yet in the Tesla. But if I were to pick someone to come with me to a dealership, it would be this guy.

Bunny, Tesla has no dealerships, only showrooms.

Nannygoat, I don’t want a Tesla. Just so happens that the guy I’d ask to accompany me to buy a car, any car, just recently bought a Tesla.

About financing. When we bought a new car, we took out the minimum loan we could to get the dealer $500 discount for financing. Aside from the fact that we had to spend mucho hours at the dealership filling out the financing forms, the bad part came when we tried to get the car title. We paid off the loan right away -- we had the money and the financing was only to save the $500 -- but the title, which the finance company keeps until the loan is paid in full, didn't come. I had to get my State Senator involved, who got someone at DMV to take a special interest in my case, as well as spend hours and days, even, on the phone before I finally got the finance company to clear the lien on the title. It took months.

Suero - same thing hapened to me. Got $1000 for financing. Bought the car Saturday. Tried to pay off the loan on Monday. Haha. Anyway, got it paid off right after the paperwork was entered which they totally stalled on. They hate when you pay it off like that. It took me ages to get the title. I wont do that again.

I helped my mother buy her car. Was a stressful event for her, not so much for me. So many factors are in play unfortunately. I’d suggest driving 5-8 vehicles that are similar to what your really want, and the vehicle that you want. May be surprised that something you had not considered is your new favorite. Otherwise, lots of good advice.

Remember, the dealership wants as much of your money as they can get. This is okay, they are a business. You just want to keep as much of your money as you can. Treat it like a game. There’s not much you can do to offend them. Be polite, but stick to your limits. If you have the cash, it may be beneficial to put down a larger sum and get a small loan for 24-36 months.

I purchased my vehicle out of state. Was thousands cheaper for brand new, higher optioned vs used, high mileage in my state. The prices were worlds apart. Took care of the negotiations over the phone. Cost me a $200 flight. Salesman picked me up at the airport. I got my keys, signed a piece of paper, and had a leisurely drive home.

We bought a new blue Outback on Election Day, 2016. It might be our last car and we wanted a new car. DH bought a Porsche Cayman as a retirement gift to himself but only planned to drive it for a few years. He drove it for five years and was ready to trade it in. He was very happy with what Subaru offered in trade.

We wanted an SUV so we could carry things home from Lowe's and plant nurseries. We also drove the Forester and the equivalent Honda and Mazda vehicles. He really liked how the Outback handled and still remarks today about how much he loves the car. The safety features were a big draw at our age. The Eye Sight Technology is supposed to be the best in the industry. I really like the visibility through the windshield. It seems very open with nothing blocking your view. I liked that the touch screen GPS/audio is lower and built into the dashboard, not sitting on top, which I remember some of the other vehicles had.

Buying it was hassle-free. I test-drove it on all my usual routes and felt very comfortable in it. There are a lot of bells and whistles that I don't use but I do like the steering wheel button where you can tell the nice woman to adjust your temperature and music. There's still a lot of stuff on it I never learned how to use.

swhughes, sounds like you got a great deal.

I'm thinking about those 5-8 test drives. Isn't there a pitch with dialog for each one of those? It can't be like "just looking" as I try on 5-8 pairs of jeans in the store, can it?

Dumb question: If I drive a new Forester at my local dealership and then find the same year/model in Nevada for thousands less, can I be confident that they are *exactly* same, even how the driver's seat feels?

mayflowers, sounds like a perfect car and experience. I have never used cruise control, don't even know how it works.

Bunny- unfortunately, most sales personnel will try to convince you to buy right now. You don’t have to tell them your plans. All they need is a copy of your license and know that you’re interested in a certain vehicle. The Honda people weren’t pushy at all, nor were the Chevy/Caddy people. The rest kind of were. We just ignored them. My mother brought up that issue. She hates the high pressured tactics. We made a game out of it. How long until they ask us how we want to pay, how many times will they ask us about their financing. It was also fun to watch them try to figure out our relationship.

However...she had her mind set on one brand, but after driving all the others, she decided it wasn’t her favorite and is happy she tested other vehicles she wasn’t too sure about at first. That’s why I recommend driving a few other vehicles similar to what you want in the same price range. Check the competition. Never know until you try right?

And yes, the same model at one dealer will be the same as at others. Just make sure it has the options you want. Some vehicles can just about double in price depending on their options. If one has a different engine or suspension, it will drive differently. But, your local dealer should have at least one of each that they will let you drive to feel the difference.

Back in 2002, I was shopping for a Honda Odyssey minivan. Our local dealership in NY had a waiting list and was selling them for about 1K over list price. We went to Vermont for a ski weekend and on a whim checked out a Honda dealer. They had 6 minivans on the lot to choose from and sold one to me for almost 2K under list. We drove home with 2 cars! More than paid for that weekend trip. It is definitely worth shopping around.

I emphasized in my post above, but maybe it was hard to read, so I will repeat. Many of your concerns have to do with how the dealerships will treat you when you are there trying to buy a car. You can go online to sites like cars dot com and see reviews of the dealerships themselves, not just the cars. The dealerships that get high marks will be better to work with. They want repeat and referral business, they want to get stellar reviews online.

My dealership has told me that corporate headquarters emails the buyers after either a sale or a repair with a questionnaire. If the dealership doesn't get high marks, they are punished by corporate (not sure how, maybe by bonuses). I have received those questionnaires each time I have gone to the dealership.

If you are uncomfortable at a dealership, just get up and leave. It's a free country, you can just get up and leave.

As I mentioned, make sure that a dealership is not the only one for that manufacturer in that area. If the next closest one is many miles away, that dealership has no incentive to treat you well.

To be frank, I think your imagination is working overtime on the difficulties of buying a car. Hundreds of thousands of people do it, and it's not nearly so hard as what your imagination's story about it is.

The world of car-buying has changed. The last time I bought a car, 2 of the 3 dealerships I visited the salesperson was a woman. There were no pressure tactics, the pricing was transparent (the internet has taken care of that), they were eager for me to drive several models and compare them, and it was all about what add-ons I wanted and how soon I could buy.

Oh, this reminds me of a story a friend just shared the other evening. She went to a dealership once years ago, saw a new bright yellow car and fell in love with. It was sitting in the showroom backed into the corner. Now I know this was a huge mistake, but my friend is impulsive - she wanted the car and bought it without even a test drive.

She picks it up next day and begins to drive out of the dealership's lot. As she was waiting for traffic, another car entering the lot pulled up beside her and asked, "Did you just buy that new car? Don't drive it off the lot, take it right back, the back fender is smashed in". My friend got out and looked and sure enough it was damaged! Now if she had driven that off the lot, she would have had no way of proving she didn't damage the car herself. Can you believe the dealer did that to her?

Yes I know how dumb it was on her part, but how dishonest was that car dealer?

ETA: And no, the "friend" I'm talking about was NOT me. ha

Wow schoolhouse, I have no words....I’m just glad that it worked out for her. That’s crazy!!!

1929, that's really useful info. Long ago my late husband sold cars. He was good at it, but he hated the pressure applied to close the deal. More than once he took someone aside and recommended that they not get in over their head with a particular car beyond their budget.

I'm not in love with cars. I'm not an impulsive buyer. I'm more likely to end up without a new car than to buy the cute yellow car in the corner. And never yellow.

Frieda, I'm pretty confident that I will not let myself be pressured into anything I don't want. I've actually been around the block a few times. :) I have no problem saying no and walking away.

Food! I just bought a new car a few months ago. It was unexpected. The dealer got a 4runner TRD pro in cavalry blue, a rare color. He called me at 2 PM to say he had one in and would be gone by the next day. I had already ordered another car but went down to look at this one anyway, as my old car was in bad shape and the new one wouldnt arrive for 4-5 mos. Anyway, I hadn’t eaten all day. By 8 PM, I was still negotiating and would have agreed to just about any deal they offered if it included food.

Things I learned:

- If they cannot come to a price you are happy with, walk away. Tell them you are going to discuss it with your brother, fiance, husband or father. They will likely call you back before you get out the door. If they say the car will be gone the next day, respond that this is okay, there are other dealers, other cars.

- If you get them where you want on price, but still want to see if you can get it lower, but they wont budge, start negotiating on the trade in. I was surprised at how much they can raise the trade in value. They may not bring the price of the car down anymore, but they might bring the price for the trade in up.

- Dont forget to negotiate on the extended warranty. I didnt know you could do this, but speaking with my friends, many did.

- If youre still not happy with the price, but it’s close, try asking for something like 5 free oil changes, or something for the car. I got them to throw in blacking out the chrome on the back of the car.

- Insist on a good interest rate! They tried to tell me it would be 5% interest rate. I have excellent credit. I told them other dealerships were offering lower interest rates. I ended up just under 3%.

They had me write down a price that would make me leave with the car. They laughed at the price I wrote down, but ultimately agreed to 1k over that price.

Rocky, I remember when you were buying your car!

I'm good with numbers and comparing different scenarios. What I don't like doing is analyzing numbers while someone is yammering in my ear or pacing around or just staring. I want to do that alone, in my house.

I'll probably never get a new car. :p

My experience at the Subaru dealership was that they were there to educate you about their cars, not sell you. Very low-key. My son-in-law worked at one for a few months and he really liked it because he said Subaru sells itself.

Rocky, I used a similar ploy on my parents, but I was younger and it was for a horse. I finally wore them down. But that's a whole 'nother story.

As Sophie says, your car is young. CRVs are well-made cars. I'd keep on with that car, unless it has issues other than normal maintenance wear and tear.

And if you do go Subaru, I wouldn't worry about a 2018 or 2017 model car being "dated". It's not a kitchen! It's not a phone!

Bunny: I'm good with numbers and comparing different scenarios. What I don't like doing is analyzing numbers while someone is yammering in my ear or pacing around or just staring. I want to do that alone, in my house.

And that's when you say, " I need to go home and consider it. You'll know my decision if/when I come back tomorrow."

Yes, they may high-pressure you, but in my personal experience, NOTHING makes me back out of something I might really want than High Pressure Tactics. There's always another dealership.

I am going to be blunt, and you will probably all hate me, but we do have freedom of speech here. This thread to me just seems so dated. Dealerships are "woke" to the idea that women make most of the car decisions, women do more internet research than men, women are buying cars with their own money not their husband's, and that having a sales experience that uses intimidation and pressure tactics hasn't worked for years.

My friend is a saleswoman at a Honda dealership, and I have sent friends to her. Her role is to go over all the various options of the different models and see what the customer prefers. Yes she of course wants to close the deal, but car manufacturers realized years ago that the hard sell doesn't close the deal nearly as well as the reasoned, educational sell. Think of when you go in a department store, and the salesperson is hovering; you just want to leave. Same with cars, and the dealerships realized this years ago.

They also realized years ago that a pleasant purchasing experience can mean the customer will come back for repairs (where the big profit is) and for their next car, and will refer their friends as well. For all these reasons, the intimidation sell is over, and has been for a long time.

The purchase price has a little leeway, but since you can find prices all over the country on the internet, there's not much hard bargaining there. There is more negotiating--if you want it--over the trade-in (a more subjective evaluation than the purchase price of a car), and extras like winter mats and free oil changes. But the era of pushy salesman, and pressure tactics is over, as should be the era of the nervous woman with fluttering hands who'd rather do anything than buy a car at the scary dealership, and needs a man to accompany her.

To the OP - feel your power. You are the purchaser of a car and the dealerships want your business. Walk in there knowing you are a powerful intelligent woman about to spend your money how you would like to spend it on the car you want. We are almost in 2019 at this point.

Dealerships are "woke" to the idea that women make most of the car decisions, women do more internet research than men, women are buying cars with their own money not their husband's, and having a sales experience that uses intimidation and pressure tactics hasn't worked for years.

Wow, do you live in a different country. I just had my car in for a recall fix and the sales manager gave me the old hard sell for almost half an hour before I just got up and walked away. They haven't learned anything at all in most places.

I was particularly amused to see that just because I let my hair go natural (it's gray now) I got the same old spiel about "I'm a veteran, you can TRUST me" that might have worked on the WWII generation but hasn't worked since.

Big bunch of lies, too--from the dealer, I mean. Don't kid yourself. Just because you are lucky enough to know someone like that, well, there's a reason that online sales and places like costco are starting to cut into dealer sales bigtime.

@Writerblock - well, maybe it's regional. To me, it seems like you live in a different country. I bought a car 3 years ago, went to several different dealerships cause I wasn't sure what I wanted. I am a woman in her 50s, and was treated respectfully each time. The only mild pressure was that I was asked repeatedly when are you looking to buy. I was noncommittal, and was still treated with respect. Other than that, there was a lot of good information provided. A lot of politeness. No pressure. I got a number of follow up phone calls, which was the only slightly annoying thing, but it wasn't that bad. That is a good salesperson's job, to follow up with a call.

sales manager gave me the old hard sell for almost half an hour before I just got up and walked away.

I am a busy woman with a job and a family. If a salesperson started to do that, I'd cut them off mid-sentence and say I don't have the time, and it wouldn't be a lie. If I were stuck there because of a repair, I'd still cut off the pitch and say not interested, and then bury my head in my phone. There is no reason to put up with that nonsense. Every woman I know is too busy for it.

Most people dislike car buying. No reason to put someone down for it.

As Sophie says, your car is young. CRVs are well-made cars. I'd keep on with that car, unless it has issues other than normal maintenance wear and tear.

Artemis, yeah, that's looking more and more attractive. I've been blessed with a virtually trouble-free car. It got the +$1K service overhaul a year ago. If something major were to come up, I wouldn't sink a lot of money into this car.

Question about negotiating on the trade-in price. Is that because the dealer profits more from a higher new car price, even if they have to pay out more for the trade-in?

I had a well-maintained Corolla and was reluctant to purchase a newer model. However, once I test-drove one, the updated safety features convinced me that it was plain dangerous NOT to get a new car.

Why don't you just try one on for size? That may point you in the right direction.

Yes, it's the updated safety features that could save your life or someone else's.

What helped me when we shopped is I watched YouTube videos beforehand where they went through the car's features and drove them. That helped me learn the terminology, so much of which was foreign to me.

Outback did an update the year after we bought our car but the changes were minor. That would be the 2018 model year.

I have always negotiated the new car deal as a separate transaction and once that was settled, I would explore the trade-in options. It just simplifies the process - not sure if I really win or lose with this tactic but it just works for me.

Oh, reading here brings back memories of buying my first car! I was just out of school and had gotten a really good job as an RT down at Children's Hospital of Detroit. BUT, my car loan was going to be through my father's bank, where he was the vice president. And, yes it's true that most bankers are VERY conservative . . . including my dad. I didn't have the confidence to go by myself to look for cars back then and, actually, Dad insisted on taking me. I had my heart set on a red Firebird. What I sadly ended up with was a (poop) brown Dart Sport. I actually had to argue with Dad to get carpeting and a radio included! He didn't think I needed them and wanted to save me even more money (LOL)! The next time I bought a car, I took my then boyfriend and came away with a darling white Fiat Spider convertible. These days, I take along my DH, only because two bargain better than one when it comes to us as a team.

I just bought a new car yesterday. My husband and I test drove it on Saturday and after mulling it over for a day or two, I went to negotiate the purchase while he was at work. The dealership was pretty easy to work with in that there weren’t any hard sale techniques and I’m comfortable with the deal we got. We negotiated price first and if they hadn’t hit the number I was looking for on the trade, I had a back up plan to sell it to Carvana instead. One thing I never do is finance through a dealer because I really like our Credit Union. It’s a little more work in that we have to take a check in before we take delivery but it’s worth it.