I'm probably one of the most vocal people on this forum, and I can look anyone in the eye and politely say I've helped thousands of people deal with and get better results from soils we might describe as bagged, commercially prepared, peat-based, heavy, or any one of several other adjectives, and I've done it without cutting off any discussion. Just SAYING that something is happening doesn't make it a reality. I recognize and deal with that fact that most people grow in heavy soils every day, and I've said hundreds of times that you can grow healthy plants in heavy soils - it's just more difficult and the margin for error reduced. I would ask the question Does anyone think and can they make a case that a heavy soil is better than a light soil from the plants perspective, which would include growth and vitality? When anyone expresses an opinion that almost no one agrees with, it invites disagreement. It's my opinion that to express an opinion that nearly no one else shares and to expect no one to disagree with that opinion is folly. If someone disagrees with an opinion, it is not berating anyone, it is simply expressing an alternate opinion. If someone's opinion flies in the face of settled science and that is pointed out, there may be some sort of emotional response from the person who offered the unsupportable opinion, but where does the fault for that lie? If someone keeps referring to cow's laying eggs, and as the eggs being an important source of sustenance to ancient man, and subsequently it's pointed out to that person over and over from multiple sources each time this is suggested that it simply doesn't agree with known science, and the overwhelming number of people reading the suggestion disagree, where does the blame for the discomfort lie? Wouldn't it be a better thing for the person posting about cow's eggs to become more familiar with the science so they would realize they are banging their head against a wall? Don't we have some sort of obligation to provide accurate information here that we can support? I think a thread should be started about light being king, in which Jane or anyone else that thinks light is king can state their case and others can offer their input. That way, instead of the topic being brought up out of context and off topic in thread after thread, a short statement (when it's appropriate) in a thread with a link to the compilation of all the proof and support can be provided without destroying the harmony/continuity of thread after thread, this one being a prime example, along with at least a dozen others of mine that I can think of. Doesn't that sound perfectly reasonable? I want to look closer at Jane's contention that light is king. "I believe light trumps all because I see houseplants underlit, over-watered and dying as the most common problem people deal with. Changing media will do nothing to help those people. Increasing light will. First, I allow as true the observation that some (most) houseplants are underlighted. I ask sincerely, what about those that are perfectly lit and are suffering from the effects of another limiting factor. Is light then king? What about the plant in poor light that is dying because it's never been fertilized or because it has a high level of soluble salts in the soil, or because it has mites or hasn't been watered in 3 weeks ....... will making the light perfect eliminate these other limiting factors? To logically hold that light is more important than these other issues, you MUST have answers to these questions. I have the answer: light is simply another limiting factor with the same potential to limit or improve growth, as a long list of other potential limiting factors. There is a difference in the way I support my contention than how Jane supports hers. Science, and the contentions I put forth cover all the bases, Jane has put together a scenario that illustrates light as the limiting factor in that particular case, so of course improving the limiting factor will improve growth ..... but ONLY to the degree the next most limiting factor will allow. If this wasn't true, the ONLY thing we would need to worry about in order to have consistently perfect plants is to ensure perfect light. "Of all the 'limiting factors' light produces the quickest increase in growth, causing the plant to use water and nutrients faster improving both leaf and root growth. I am talking about light appropriate to the plant grown. Changing media does nothing for an underlit, over-watered plant. It will still die." Light is necessary for 'sustained growth', but it doesn't necessarily produce the quickest growth. It's probably easiest to illustrate this using a couple of examples. A) What about the plant in either good light or bad light that is stalled because of an N,P, or K deficiency. If it's in perfect light, light can't be improved because it's already perfect. If it's in poor light, the nutritional deficiency is the limiting factor and making the light perfect will not increase growth. B) What about the plant that is horribly root bound? Extremely tight roots seriously inhibit growth and vitality. Will improving light eliminate this impediment to growth. Of course not, but repotting will. Additionally, changing the soil can assuredly correct that over-watering issue referred to in the quote text, as many here will vouch for. The point is, logic won't allow us to devise a situation in which light is potentially the limiting factor, then use that particular situation to suggest that light is ALWAYS the most important factor. For every case we can imagine where light is limiting, I can imagine 30 more where any one of the individual nutrients, plus cultural conditions like temperature, moisture levels, soil conditions, insects, disease, even where the plant is in the growth cycle, can be a factor more limiting than light. This doesn't even take into consideration that we're talking about containerized plants. They're portable - so if they don't like the light where they are - move them. If you can't move them, deal with it and try to make sure that light is the only limiting factor, because if you forget to water, or you leave the plant out on the porch in a sub-zero cold snap, light is not going to be king. Everyone has a right to an opinion, and everyone has the right to post it here at GW, as long as the people overlooking the threads don't think the rules are being fractured. I think our 'rights' stop there. There is no right to expect everyone to agree with us, and there is no right to have our opinions well-received. Those things depend on how we support our opinions with facts and logic - the concrete facets; but, there are also abstract facets that determine how our offerings are received, which include things like timing, whether or not they are on topic, the reason this opinion was expressed in the first place, the manner in which it was expressed, whether it was offered in a positive or negative context .... Opening a post with the statements: "Without light you wouldn't have roots. The information offered above is backward. Light is always king." which are decidedly off-topic and when similar statements have caused plenty of friction in the past is really at the very heart of the sort of thing everyone else is being accused of, and it certainly proved unhealthy for the continuity and harmony of another thread. Suggesting that people would be better served having a realistic discussion about the gritty mix infers that the discussions we have are not realistic. I might suggest that it would be much more difficult for a person who has never used it, and would never use it, to honestly determine what is realistic and what isn't. I'm not asking this to be sarcastic or mean, but only for illustrative purposes: What part of any posts about light shed any realism on the OT, or what was there in any of those posts offering anything that hasn't been discussed at length? No one ever tries to change the way Jane grows or the way anyone else that expresses a wish to grow in a certain way grows. And I don't see anyone trying to change the way she thinks. These things just don't happen unless the person's attitude is conducive to this type of input as far as I can see, so she is left to grow in whatever way she chooses and think as she wishes - as it should be, and I wish her great success - honestly. No one ever forces anything down anyone's throat - people just won't allow it. People do disagree with some of the things she says, but that's normal, people disagree with me all the time. We learn a great deal from disagreement. Key to not being disagreed with is to give people as little as possible to disagree with (a command of the topic) and not go to the other extreme of posting statements we are sure will cause others to disagree. Al

Hey disney. It can be very confusing for sure. the genus is 'Plumeria' the most common species you will see posted here are "Obtusa" and "Rubra". I dont know if anyone here grows the species "Pudica" but they are nice also. thinner leaves and smaller flowers then the other 2. there are a couple other species but I dont believe they are very common. Singapore is the name of the most common obtusa species. There are other names of obtusa such as "dwarf singapore pink. by far the most common you will see posted here and are the most varied are different cultivars of the rubra species. But hang on it can get even more confusing now. There are quite a lot of registered cultivars but there are also many that have several names. for example "confetti" is also known to some as "barbados showgirl" As far as cross grafting I really dont have an answer. Also I am still very new to plumeria and there are many, many other members here whose knowledge far out weighs mine so hang someone will be by shortly to help answer your questions. I attached the link to the plumeria society page if you are interested. they have a list of their officially registered names. Mike Here is a link that might be useful: PSA This post was edited by mksmth on Wed, Apr 24, 13 at 9:41

Plumeria will naturally start dropping their leaves ( turning yellow and usually from the bottom) because of signs of dormany. This is caused by shorter daylight; cooler temps and in the wild; reduced rain showers. They naturally start this process to conserve energy to last through the semi dormant period . The species “ Ruba” that most of us have do this most often and then some evergreen varieties ( Obtusa) will keep their leaves. Examples ( Singapore and Hong Kong cultivars) i will not worry at all when I see them doing this in late September ... I usually bring mine in around mid to late October here in Virginia Beach . They will be brought inside after I reduce watering and I also spray for bugs and use a systemic to help reduce those little critters that aren’t welcome inside the house . i use my great room and upstairs to overwinter trees . The others will be placed in the greenhouse. Remember to lift plants so they don’t sit on the floor if you store them in garage since they need airflow to keep the roots from the cold. ( keep temps in garage from going below 40 -45 degrees) wooden pallets help to lift them. Don't worry when you see those leaves turn yellow and drop... it’s all natural!! Good luck !! Laura

This is what i actually added my original list queen palm mexican fan palm chinese fan palm another pindo palm giant varigated reed cordylines and dracenea in the ground yucca rostrata yucca alofolia yucca elephantipes musa basjoo sabal loisiana elepnt ears more cannas some more hardy cactus what i actually added queen palm- died because i over fertilized it another pindo palm i planted a seedling giant varigated reed cordylines in the ground- im trying to overwinter several green ones yucca alofolia - small one yucca elephantipes - seedling musa basjoo - 5 feet over the summer sabal loisiana - i added two sabal minors and planted two sabal louisiana seedlings elepnt ears - 1 alocasia being overwintered inside more cannas - yes lots of them some more hardy cactus- cow tounge opuntia and thornless opuntia here are some picture http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/palms/msg1116291621269.html?7 i added it as a link for next year i plan on adding ensete bannanas papaya purple castor beans elephant ears Here is a link that might be useful: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/palms/msg1116291621269.html?7