Whoever is going to be the designated person, there needs to be a second and maybe even third person trained and prepared to step in, in case you are absent. Maybe teacher and principal.

Totally outrageous. Would they ask a man to do this?

lisaw, I am so so sorry that you've been put into this position. It seems like a very dangerous situation for this poor child. There's no way that I would allow my child to attend school under such potentially perilous circumstances. Even if you were all gung ho over this new responsibility, the plan is feeble and flawed.

Is the mom passive about this? Perhaps clueless about the gravity of the situation?

I wish you luck and hope to hear that your school leaders come up with a tenable, life saving plan. It seems to me that several people need to be given this training.

I was a K-12 school secretary for 27 years and was required to administer a lot of meds. We had a student who had terrible seizures...I had to get over her, hold her down so she did not hard herself...it was terribly scary at times to see her eyes rolling into the back of her head..but I had no school nurse, so had to do what was required of me.

"Is the mom passive about this?" Um, what about the dad?

I've deduced from Lisa's dialogue that this is a single mother, whose only support system are her own parents.

I may have misread or misinterpreted.

It's not right to ask you to do this when the nurse isn't there. Why not the childs teacher? She would be the closest to him at the time of the seizure. You could be on the phone with 9-1-1 to get him help. It makes no sense to me either. Actually here in Canada, you can get sued for giving medication without a licence. I took a First Aid with CPR course and if someone is having a heart attack, I can hand them their nitro or an aspirin, I cannot administer it. Although if I do and it saves their lives and the person tries to sue anyway, odds are them being alive will save my butt because what I did didn't kill them...……

I used to work in a group home many years ago. I gave out the meds as part of my job description. I really don't remember any "training" in particular.

Fast forward about 8 years ago I worked in a group home, but in administration. Counselors there had to be trained by a nurse, pass a test that she administered to them and take a CPR class regularly.

I am no longer working there, but from what I understand, as the needs change, so does the protocol. one resident needs to have a staff on the ground at all times for example.

Phoggie - do you think you would have been able to give that seizing child a rectal medication?

No, Mom is not single but Dad works away. And no, she is not passive at all, neither, she, nor I were asked to this meeting. That disturbs me a little. I still haven't heard what the out come was....

I would not like being put in this position. It’s a lot of responsibility and just knowing it could happen at any time would hang heavy over my head. So many things could go wrong. Does anybody know how often this little guy has seizures?

Actually here in Canada, you can get sued for giving medication without a licence.

That may be true here in the U.S. also if there are no doctors orders and parental permissions to back up the medication administration. I would think that in Canada with the proper paperwork, etc. that non licensed people can give medication. Certainly parents can give medication to their children without a license.

neither, she, nor I were asked to this meeting. That disturbs me a little. I still haven't heard what the out come was....

Lisa, it is time to decide exactly what you are prepared to do. Don't be a leaf in a creek, carried along to destinations that the creek decides. Apparently policy put out by your school system says that this has to be done by a volunteer. You and I both know that sometimes pressure can be brought to make people volunteer. How much are you willing to resist?

It may be that if no one volunteers they will go ahead and hire a health aide or a LVN full time, and that they are just trying to push the envelope here to save money.

You might talk to some local lawyers, often a lawyer will offer a free 30 minute consult (check and make sure) to determine what action might be needed.

Is there a school district union?

https://bangordailynews.com/2018/02/23/the-point/want-safer-healthier-maine-schools-hire-more-nurses/

Lisa you might want to call the author of this article Kelley Strout, ask for confidentiality and discuss your issue.

Each state has there own rules on who can dispense medications in schools. In PA where I live medication can only be dispensed by a licensed nurse with physicians orders. In Maine where the OP is from a lay person can give meds in the schools.

In PA where I live medication can only be dispensed by a licensed nurse

PA has a list of 'emergency' medications which can be administered by unlicensed school staff with proper orders, etc.

FlamingO - he hasn't had a seizure since they adjusted his meds last week, on Wednesday I believe. So, hopefully he won't have one here at school but we obviously have to be prepared.

Lucille - I have decided that as long as there are at least 2 other "volunteers" to assist and we receive proper training, I will accept this responsibility. I honestly don't have a choice and I am not in a position to ruffle feathers. As I mentioned earlier, I am the newby here, only 4 years in. Everyone in this building, of 10 staff, have been here for over 20 years, some as long as 35. It's hard to explain but I have a feeling the atmosphere here is much different than outside rural Maine. I would not be looked upon favorably by anyone, my peers, parents, the school board, community members, etc. if I were to go against their wishes.

Again, I truly love my job & if this is what I have to do, well, as bad as I hate that saying, "it is what it is".

Hallelujah - I just got word, we won't be administering this med. The very minute a seizure starts, we call 911, then the parent and/or grandparents. Just pray to God someone gets here in time!

OMG, I can sleep tonight!!!

YEAH!

I am betting that this is not over. I think that the next step will be for the parents to either sue or appeal this decision so that the school system has to pay for an aid or LVN full time.

I think that the school board is just trying to see whether it can bamboozle the parent into being quiet. Obviously neither the emergency services nor the parents/grandparents can get to the school to comply with the timing on the doctor's order. This decision is not safe for this child.

There is a huge body of cases affirming that it is the responsibility of the school system to care for a child's health needs during the school day. But of course if a parent doesn't speak up, the school system gets away with not paying for an aid.

We should be advocates for our children. They cannot speak for themselves.

Lisa, although I am glad this is not on your shoulders, the fact remains that this little boy still can be in a life death situation if not given meds within a certain amount of time.

I am hoping that the parents step in to figure out a different plan.

All the best to everyone concerned but I'm sorry, this discussion and many reactions produce a face-palm moment for me. I said before but I'll repeat, I think any reasonable person should want to react immediately to act for the well being of this or any child and should be comfortable doing for someone else's child what they would do for their own child. I see no difference. To stand back and do nothing, when there's something available to do, is unconscionable. Calling 911 or anyone else is simply punting the ball to others and ignoring the situation at hand.

I hope it doesn't happen that the delay to treat the situation causes permanent injury or death for this or any other child. Imagine how one would feel afterwards if the failure to act resulted in serious consequences.

Elmer - I truly understand your point, I swear I do. However, calling 911 is NOT punting the ball to someone else for crying out loud. THEY are the medical professionals, not ME! I would absolutely do anything in my power to save a child from dying but I will not put a child in danger because of my own inadequacies. Again, I am NOT trained medical staff.

Our RN said that his family is completely on board with this decision and someone will always be less than 20 minutes away when he is in school. I have also met with local first responder's and they assure me that if I call 911 immediately, he will be just fine. Boy...I sure hope so.

As relieved as I am, I sincerely hope the decision the Superintendent, Principal & RN made wasn't the wrong one.

"any reasonable person should want to react immediately to act for the well being of this or any child and should be comfortable doing for someone else's child what they would do for their own child. I see no difference."

I see a BIG difference.

Lucille, you are a nurse. My question to you would be this: would there be a way to administer this med and do more harm than good after being trained on the protocol?

Lisa, like you, I was an elementary school secretary for 19 years before retiring four years ago. Loved the job, but certainly dealt with my fair share of urine, vomit and blood over the years. Our school nurse was at the school one day per week and the rest of the time first aid and medication dispensing was part of my job duties.

Besides two severe diabetics, I also had a little boy who had seizures and needed the same type of medication you've described. When he enrolled, we had a meeting that included the principal, the boy's teacher, the classroom aide, the school nurse, the parents and me. We were able to discuss his needs and the concerns of everyone involved. All of us received training on administering the medication using a life size training doll.

The proper paperwork was obtained and we came up with a plan of exactly what to do if medication had to be given, including what to do with the classmates. Fortunately, we never had to administer his medication, but we were prepared if it became necessary. This training was repeated each year with whichever staff would spend the most time with him.

Whenever we had a student with special health needs, we felt it important to have those who would have the most contact with the child, trained on how to help the child. Otherwise, having only one person trained was a recipe for disaster if that person wasn't available for whatever reason.

Another option is a fulltime one on one aid for students who need this kind of support. School districts don't like that option because they have to pay for it, but the parents or the teacher can certainly request it and schools have to provide it, if the student qualifies. EDIT TO ADD that I should qualify the above statement by saying that laws/ed code on this may vary from state to state, but as far as I know all states have addressed these types of issues in their ed codes.

I agree with Lucille that you probably haven't heard the last of this. I think if you might feel more comfortable of you weren't the only person responsible for the medication and knowing others could step in to help would be a confidence booster.

Best of luck to you; I know how challenging, yet how rewarding the role of school secretary can be. :-)

I'm stunned at the decision. I have a feeling when the family has time to digest this decision, they won't be on board with it. The decision is only a Plan A, it doesn't sound like a Plan B or C has been thought out. Calling 911 does not ensure they or a family member will be there within the time period needed to administer the medication. I would not be sending my child to school under the current circumstances and would be fighting this decision. My district has provided medically trained aides in situation such as this.

Eld, my father was a doctor. During his training, he administered an antibiotic, properly. A short time later despite all attempts to help, his patient was dead due to an allergy although there was no history of allergy.

Does this mean that medications should never be administered? Of course not. Whether the person administering medication is a doctor or a nurse or a secretary or a parent, there may be unplanned adverse effects. A better question to ask might be whether this particular school patient due to his treatment plan would be better served with a licensed nurse in the building, and I would say yes. I think all schools should have a school nurse.

During my years as a nurse the district figured it would get a 2 for 1 and have nurses teach. It was a disaster, and I have many personal stories about my short and ill fated teaching career. Our poor school secretary figured into one of the stories, when she gave a student a piece of ice for his obviously fractured hand and sent him back to class while I was teaching.

She was the best secretary ever, and I valued her more than I can say. But a nurse with years of education and experience sees through different eyes from one without such experience.

It is short sighted to try to save money by not having a nurse at every school.

I am glad you are feeling relieved, but I also feel unsettled at this decision. 10, 15, 20 minutes can be a lifetime in a medical emergency. It feels like the school is trying to pass responsibility on and save money, and the child is the one who will likely suffer the consequences.

I don't think the school secretary should have to do it, but I do think they need to find the funding for someone trained for such things. If, God forbid, that child dies because no one was allowed to do anything other than dial the phone, the school board is opening themselves to losing a lot more money.

A child who is only one week out of his last grand mal seizure should under no conditions be going to school to be looked after by lord knows who. Do the parents have the least regard for his life? A school system can only do so much. It is not a hospital. He should be home schooled until his situation is better understood. As it is the effect of medications on him is still up in the air. He is only recently diagnosed. His evolving medical condition is unknown. Hopefully he will be able to go to school but this is too soon. The expectation that a public school can deal with any medical problem is foolish. The fact that people do this is no excuse to continue to do so.

If the med was to be given orally or by buccal administration would people have a problem stepping up to help this child if necessary?

I can not imagine waiting even 15 minutes while a child is having a seizure waiting for emergency personnel to show up. The OP should not Forced to be the backup to administer the medication., if she doesn't think she can.

Are teachers and administrators trained for CPR and the use of EPI pen in the district? They are here. (As well as Active Shooter Training.) Maybe add the training for this medication to the list?

Would a seizure definitely cause physical harm or death to the child? Did his other seizures cause harm or injury? I am not lacking compassion here but, I like many others have no medical training or skills at all. Perhaps the school made this decision to avoid a potential lawsuit, I don't imagine it is lack of concern. Perhaps this child should not attend school until his condition is stable?

Actually there are caveats regarding when and if to administer this medication. Factual information can be found here.

https://www.epilepsy.com/learn/managing-your-epilepsy/using-rescue-treatments/diastat-101

There's no satisfactory conclusion here yet. What can change?

Is it acceptable to have no RN or EMT able to respond to a serious medical emergency with a child or an adult in under 20 minutes?

If the EMTs are out on another call, response will be delayed either from them or neighboring team. I understand your concerns, Lisa, but the EMT plan sounds like a second choice idea.

I agree with a previous post that he should be under his parents’ care until they are sure he is stabilized with the new medication. He can be given school work to do, perhaps attend a few hours a day with a parent or trained aide in attendance.

Perhaps he could be transferred to a nearby school with a full-time nurse?

Elizabeth, that's not a reasonable request. His home, family, and friends are there.

rob333 is correct, there are no FT nurses in any school in this area. As I said before, it's common in Maine for one RN to cover all schools in a district, we have 4.

No sign of any seizures yet, I am grateful!

I am not familiar with the area that this child lives in. I thought perhaps there was another school nearby with a nurse and transportation would be easy enough. Certainly it is unacceptable to send him a great distance from his family and neighborhood.

You would still send him away from his friends and the place he knows. It wasn't right to say.

People having seizures often bite through their tongues, some time multiple times as in hamburger as a friend who had Epilepsy that was mostly controlled would tell me. They can break bones, aspirate fluids, choke and suffocate. Usually the person comes to recognize the signs of an imminent seizure and can position themselves optimally and may carry a bite stick. That isn't something you expect in a six year old.

This is entirely too soon for this child. I understand the desire for him to continue with a normal life but you have to be sensible

I should mention that I used to be an EMT so had all the training though not for medication.

I should mention that I used to be an EMT so had all the training though not for medication.

I respect and value the perspective of EMTs, but there does seem to be an order from the child's physician ordering this medication in the school setting. I'm thinking that if school attendance was medically unsafe, the doctor would have recommended home schooling, he or she apparently did not do so.

Lisa, I can tell that this has been upsetting for you, since you truly want what's best for the child. Assigning one person to be responsible in a life and death situation was not an appropriate plan.

I hope that staff and faculty will receive specialized training so that this little guy can be safe and secure until help arrives. Everyone wants the best for him.

I did a quick search and came upon a drug and delivery system that seems to fit this situation. An anti-seizure item, given rectally, especially designed to be administered by people without any health care training.

I really don't get any part of this problem . Think about what you would hope for as a reaction from the school for such a reasonable request if this were your child. The Golden Rule is always instructive. If you have some reluctance, I'm really surprised that the principal or a teacher wouldn't step forward to be helpful. You're all there for the children after all, good and bad, warts and all.

And I had come around to the decision I would administer this with assistance & training. It is now out of my hands as the "higher ups" have determined we will not be responsible for this. Ultimately, it was the District Superintendent to make the final call.

Doesn't seem like school administrators have handle on this situation. Lisa was willing to do what was required if they'd given her assurance this was a communal responsibility which they didn't.

Unless all the responsible adults involved have already had serious cooperative discussions and drawn up written treatment parameters for all school personnel to be trained with there seems to be some missing parts in this situation. I refrained from commenting on this thread until some outcome was arrived at with school officials but some people here seem to be missing relevant facts. This is not the same as measuring glucose level and administering insulin shot.

This little boy is newly diagnosed, probably has not even processed what his limited experience can understand and seizure regulating medication protocol is still in very early stages.

Has anyone even asked this newly diagnosed 6 yr. old child how he feels about a stranger administering medication with rectal applicator? When/if he has a seizure in school they need to have previously done an age appropriate explanatory presentation to his class so they have some understanding of epilepsy and likely embarrassment and/or emotional impact on this little boy is minimized as much as possible.

If you look on any site dealing with epilepsy and the Diastat manufacturer's site there are measurable criteria for giving medication and person administering/responsible adults are supposed to determine if it's grand mal, petit mal, etc. before giving this break through medication. Diastat site gives very specific observational, administration, after care and recording instructions which are probably most important when a child has been newly diagnosed.

Also, according to all these epilepsy sites everyone on school staff who will come into contact with child must be trained to recognize seizure (sometimes as subtle as continuous blinking or staring for certain amount of time which may be prelude to more serious seizure or totality of that one seizure episode) and it's type and be completely familiar regarding very specific "seizure action plan" with which all school personnel coming into contact with this little boy must become familiar with.

I originally thought a child would be home schooled until daily/emergency meds are regulated. According to both fed/state disability regulations the child must be admitted to school if that is what parents want. Part of child accepting diagnosis and treatment plan is going on with life as normally as possible. For a new kindergarten student he hasn't had much "experience" with school at all with which to compare. Hell, he may have been a little tentative about moving up to the "big kids" school before he was just diagnosed with epilepsy!

I know I'm inclined to over protectiveness with children but going through the time tested and medically relevant protocols and meetings may not have been thoroughly addressed here and they don't seem to have been communicated to the school secretary asked on the fly to be responsible for administration of emergency medication. There's more to planning for this child's physical and emotional well being than just giving him a suppository.

I'll get off my soapbox. I hadn't consciously known what was involved in monitoring and administering meds for a child with epilepsy (particularly one newly diagnosed) in a school setting. This little 6 yr. old and his family are likely still feeling their way through a new diagnosis so seems everyone has to get together on specific way to handle possible emergency treatment.

Hopefully people in concert will learn to deal with it properly and everyone will play their part to aid this little boy in acclimating to his new school surroundings, epilepsy and meds while his classmates have been properly educated as well.

Makes you want to just hug all the little ones in your life and be aware that love and knowledge will make us able to address any challenges with them. If only....

MissMyGardens - I wish I could hit the "like" but 100 times. THANK YOU!!!

Good for you, Lisa. Yay you!

With a few exceptions I think this has been a courteous and fruitful discussion. I do understand Lisa's apprehensions, the child's needs both for safety and to continue to be in a familiar setting, the financial budget stresses that may be preventing a nurse in every school.

This is not an adversarial debate, we all love children. It is an honest presentation by Lisa of apprehensions and tensions with a school admin which in my opinion by not including her and the parent in the discussions do not appear to have the best interests of the child as a top priority.

I hope although we all have differing backgrounds and perspectives that Lisa feels the concern and care we have for both her and this child.

I completely agree, Lucille.

I'd also like to add that I'll be surprised if the school district is able to wash their hands of this matter as it appears they are trying to do. It'll depend on how willing the parents are to pursue this latest development. I honestly don't believe the district's decision will stand up if the parents decide to contest.

I agree 100% Lucille. I appreciate everyone's advice, comments and shared experiences. It truly is what helped me come to the conclusion that I did, even though it's now irrelevant. But, you never know, the situation could change & I do feel better prepared either way.

Again - Thank you. I may not post often but I read nearly EVERYTHING all you interesting, caring, knowledgeable folks post.

Back at you, Lisa! Keep on keeping on.