Faux custom hack. Real custom comes finished. In a clean room. And not with some hokey useless sink base modification.

Do you as a rule make them like this, or by request? In the scheme of things, I know its not that important. Your opinion please, when all is painted and done, will it look ok? Does it match the rest of the kitchen?

Sophie Wheeler, what do you mean?

I'm sorry but that just looks weird.

Was this indicated on your design plans?

No. And my painter is painting them on site.

It does look a bit odd. Do you have it in writing (email, text) that you wanted it flush?

No, it was verbal.

This is not standard for a sink unless requested. He just needs to make a new box, should be able to reuse the doors/hinges.

Agree this is odd looking. I think Sophie has it right. Faux funky thing to make it look more custom. Paint on site?! Yikes. That should all be done in a pro spray booth

Looks awful! I've never seen any sink cabinet like this. The triangle cabinets at the end are a waste of time and practically useless.

None of that is standard for cabinets. A true custom maker applies a conversion varnish in a clean room. Otherwise he is not a cabinet maker. He is a woodworker who lacks the skills to finish his product properly.

And he is the worse kind of hack if he palms off finishing to an on site house painter using house paint. Bugs and dust should not be part of your finish. And your glides and hinges shouldn’t have to be taped off to keep the finish off of them.

I don't have a recessed sink base so just guessing that the recess helps to somewhat protect the doors from water gone astray. And possibly help keep them cleaner. (My below the sink doors are grime catchers.). Also, as PPF mentioned, it probably helps to make standing at the sink a bit more comfortable as opposed to a flush front cabinet with overlay doors and door handles.

OTOH, it does rob you of some storage space, creates more surfaces to clean...

Definitely more work and materials for the cabinet maker to build them that way.

Also note that he's making fewer, longer boxes with divider partitions which indicates a full custom build and best use of available floor space. Vs multiple small boxes and more gable ends and probable use of filler panels because factory cabinets adhere to set widths...

Fewer boxes means quicker, easier install, too. At this point, I don't think the guy is a hack, pending something that crops up later to change my mind.

Unless you have the flush front sink cabinet specified in your contract, I would probably let this go and see how it works out in real life. Keep in mind that the view of the sink front is very limited in this kitchen. Not like it is on an end wall and you will be looking at it every time you sit down to dinner...

An an aside, I would remove the island. It's just going to get in your way because it is blocking the sink/ cooker and refrigerator/ cooker and refrigerator/ sink paths. Doubly, triply, quadruply if kids, bystanders, pets are added.

I don't think you will really notice it once installed. But, if you think it will bother you forever, I would definitely ask for it to be remade. If you do the ask tactfully, it shouldn't affect your relationship for future projects. You might end up "eating" the cost, tho, since the exact design wasn't originally specified in writing.

You (no need to name names) should be ashamed of yourselves. OP came on here asking a question about her sink base - no need to lambaste her choice of cabinetmaker or design when, in all likelihood, she has already paid 75% or more of the cost. She didn't ask what you to speculate on the quality of her cabinetmaker or on his finishing technique nor on her layout - she can't do anything about it even if she wanted to at this point. Just on whether you had seen something similar to this sink cabinet. There are plenty of people asking for advice on those topics for you to show off to all of us how smart you are on those topics (though the rank speculation based off of photos is often absurd - I saw one of these 'experts' who prides herself on her frankness recklessly attack a recently widowed woman and falsely accuse her of of doing illegal, unlicensed work on her house based off of nothing).

If it was not on the final approved set of drawings, then I would have him remake it to the proper approved specs.

It can be fixed. just tell him now before they paint.

Ha. I doubt Sophie looks anything like her pic. If you spend much time on here you realize she’s a character and a fixture of the board. She calls it like she sees it, and I agree the way your guy is making the cabinets isn’t really like a true custom cabinet maker would do it.

I think it looks strange and I’d request a re-do.

Very cool photos The Cook's Kitchen. Thanks!

"your choice of haircolor tells me all I need to know"

LOL that photo is Mrs. Slocombe, a character on the British TV comedy "Are You Being Served".

LoL, just sayin...

I've actually had sink bases like that in very old kitchens and it is ergonomically quite nice. But they had a cute vintage look whereas yours is sort of not right looking. Just ask him to redo it. It shouldn't be a big deal.

I've only seen that in older kitchens and occasionally under a farm sink....

It keeps the water from rolling off the sink on top of the doors...

I don't think this looks bad - but if you are doing a regular undermount I would ask if he can fix it.

Good luck!

And Mrs. Slocombe is related to Dame Edna.

Go right ahead and mock Sophie. She is 100% correct in her comment despite you may not want to hear it.

She has more knowledge under her silvery hair, than you will garner in the rest of your days spent on this site.

PS, Every bit of of door hardware needs to be REMOVED for an on site paint job. All the door and drawer faces must come off. They must then be re attached upon completion. ..........NO TAPE. Re do on the sink base btw. and then a lot of prayer ..........regarding paint.

It’s always interesting to see how one question on this site generally opens a virtual Pandora’s box. Ask “ how does my hair look?” and get “ your dress is all wrong” in response. No judgement here....just an observation.

Can someone post Sophie's resume? I want to copy and paste it every time someone says she has no clue what she is talking about :)

I did not ask for comments on my paint choice. My cabinet man does finish paint or stain a booth in his paint shop. It was my choice to use my excellent painter for everything in my new home, the doors will all be removed and sprayed in a controlled setting. All of our woodwork, including the cabinets will be spray enameled in place in the home. This is my understanding of how its done here in my area. The model home we toured had a beautiful, smooth as silk, hard as nails white enamel finish that was utterly flawless and that is my goal. My cabinet man was affordable in my price range as opposed to box cabinets. K now lets lighten up guys! Have a great weekend.

Sophie has saved my behind several times over the years. She knows everything about almost everything....

These are great boards and you will get lots of help. You just have to grow a thick skin and be open minded about the great advice offered free of charge.

Just to be clear, no on this thread said that about Sophie.

It's totally possible to get a good onsite paint job. It's even totally possible to do it oneself, although one only does that once, when one is young...

Ignore the comments about your paint choices. :P

Faux custom hack. Real custom comes finished. In a clean room.

A true custom maker applies a conversion varnish in a clean room. Otherwise he is not a cabinet maker. He is a woodworker who lacks the skills to finish his product properly.

There are a lot of things said as if they were fact, that are in fact, not. The above are some great examples. The number of people who have never sprayed a finish in their entire life who are experts at spraying finishes is astounding. In reality, quality of materials never has and never will equal quality of results.

Just like everything else, there are advantages and disadvantages to shop spraying and site spraying cabinets. A lot of the things that are touted as the advantages of a conversion varnish shop finished in a "clean room" (which really isn't a clean room just a spray booth) is mostly marketing.

Yes, conversion varnish is the best cabinet finish. But what does that really mean? Is it ten time better? Is it 1% better? How much better is it? In reality, for most users they will never notice the difference between half a dozen finishes. In reality it is like picking the 250 mph sports car over the 225 mph sports car. Which is important if you are a race car driver, but largely unimportant if only drive in heavy commuter traffic.

A conversion varnish is harder to work with than a non-yellowing lacquer and many reputable custom cabinet makers choose to use a high build lacquer because it is much easier to get a good finish with. The village idiot could learn to spray a lacquer in a few days of practice and never ruin a piece beyond easily repaired the entire time, on the other hand after 500 gallons of conversion varnish a sprayer still might not be good enough to work well with it. Which is important because in general the sprayer at a cabinet maker isn't going to be that artisan guy. That experienced artisan sprayer is going to a body shop where he will make three times the money.

As for the "clean room," a good painter can create a negative pressure environment anywhere, and since you can get a good lacquer that flashes in 20 minutes versus 60-80 minutes for a conversion varnish some of those concerns are alleviated. Remember that a finish that takes 3 times longer to dry must have 3 times less dust to get the same purity of finish.

Which brings us to the pictures of a giant exhaust fan above... Do you know how much dust that thing will move around? One reason that many cabinet shops stick with non-yellowing lacquers is because conversion varnish is nasty stuff. I mean there are substantial health risks from conversion varnish, so you have to have either giant exhaust fans or supplied air respirators (my preference), and those giant exhaust fans are going to move a tremendous amount of dust around an area.

A finish is the top coat of the cabinets, the thing that people see and when site sprayed it is essentially the final construction of the cabinets. Small modifications made during installation can be addressed, all intrusions can be addressed, etc. when field sprayed. However, it is much harder to get a perfect field spray, however, it is fairly easy to get an acceptable field spray.

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Having written, what could charitably be called, an entire book about this let me say that I am a fan of conversion varnish, however, I don't think it is a mark of quality. Mostly it is another selling point, for cabinets to people with no real perspective on it. You can say it is the toughest and the best finish without ever really defining how tough or how much better and then someone is going to consider that a mark of quality. If you really want to compare several finishes don't ask about materials, ask to see the tax returns of the guy who is going to be spraying your cabinets. Because in reality, if you aren't a bit impressed by how much he gets paid, then don't expect to be that impressed with your results.

These are the boxes that are finished flat, before the glides are attached, and they are put together. That is the only way that you can properly finish a box. You cannot spray a put together cabinet box and get a good job, ever.

LOL...

We pre-finish because it is easier. Every piece of wainscoting I make is pre-finished because it makes my life easier. However, you can absolutely spray a "put together" piece of furniture and get a good job. In fact, properly done a finish sprayed after assembly is best, it just happens to take 4 times longer.

Lacquer is much too succeptible to damage from moisture to be used in a kitchen. Period. Just try to spray it on a humid day, and you won’t get that white blush of trapped humidity out without virtually baking it.

Which is what happens with lacquer in real world kitchen use. Moisture damages it. It’s fine for furniture that doesn’t deal with moisture. Nothing beats a French polished piece of fine furniture for depth and beauty. But that’s not what we’re talking about here. Just set a glass of iced tea on that piece without a coaster though.

Yes, the faux custom guys love lacquer, because it’s easier on them. Boohoo and tough noogies that spraying a conversion varnish is hard. If local custom can’t produce a product that is equal in durability to a factory finished product, they don’t deserve the label of custom cabinet maker. I’m not lowering my standards because someone can’t meet them. I bet you don’t give out A’s because someone is having a really hard time getting a C.

Lacquer is much too succeptible to damage from moisture to be used in a kitchen. Period.

LOL...

Conversion varnish is a lacquer. Period.

And the lacquer used on cabinets today is the same lacquer that was used on cars for decades and is still preferred by collectors today.

It is simply a lacquer with higher solid contents. A high build lacquer will approach the solid content of a conversion varnish. In fact, at some point you have just added enough solids to a lacquer for it to become conversion varnish. All of the difference comes from higher solid content, which we have achieved in high build lacquers that don't need formaldehyde or some equivalent .

ETA: Traditionally, once your solid content got too high you had to post cat the lacquer with a stronger catalyst (really you almost had to use formaldehyde), which essentially turned it into conversion varnish. That is all a conversion varnish is, a lacquer that will not properly catalyze without formaldehyde (or xylene). However, there is actually a lot of competition in paints and research is actually very impressive, so today they have managed to invent high build, non yellowing lacquers that have substantially similar performance to conversion varnish with limited amounts of pre catalyzed formaldehyde that is much safer than post catalyzed products.

I'm sorry that you're upset that people commented on something you didn't ask about (painting onsite). However, most of the helpful people here have a difficult time letting go/ignoring other issues they see. They want to help you get the best that you can get everywhere, not just on the small part of the whole that you asked about.

It's like seeing someone crossing the road into oncoming traffic after they've asked you for directions -- they didn't ask you about pedestrian/road safety, but you warn them anyway.

Just keep in mind that this is your Kitchen and in the end you can do whatever you want -- good or bad. At least you will be aware of the pros/cons and be making an informed decision.

Lacquer is much too succeptible to damage from moisture to be used in a
kitchen. Period. Just try to spray it on a humid day, and you won’t get
that white blush of trapped humidity out without virtually baking it.

Oh. my. gosh. Thank you for this!!!

Two of my new espresso-colored cab doors have a Milky Way thing going on, present since installation, and NO ONE from the cabinet company or the builder knows what the heck is going on! They've tried all manner of "cleaning" and are all flummoxed. The guy who came yesterday just tried using more Gemini Lacquer stuff without success. This makes so much sense now.

Thank you, Miss Sophie. <3

Very informative bry911!

I have seen great “paint finished on site” cabinets that are still looking great 15-20 years later. I have factory finished myself but like you said, all that means is a spray booth and the real “experts” go to the auto restoration side where they have car nuts who willl throw fistfuls of money at them for the perfect “enviable” and show winning paint job, not homeowners counting their dollars on their Excel spreadsheets. Though maybe when I am 80 I will say “f@&$ it” and ask an auto guy to makeover my cabinets with flame breathing dragons and unicorns since I can’t take my money with me anyways.

Anyway, OP, getting answers on things you did not ask questions to is rather par for the course here. The funny thing is because your cabinets are new people will tell you about how you should finish them for longevity to enjoy them for 30-40 years. If you had 15-20 year old cabinets though and wanted to lengthen their use to YOU by having them painted professionally to give you another 10-20 years you would likely be hearing save your $8-10k as it is a $60-70k+ “gut job” as your cabinets are too dated to salvage and it is lipstick on a pig anyway. So either save to do it right or move. Then in another post where someone wants to keep their original cabinets just like those 15-20 year old cabinets but change counters they are praised for keeping them. You often just can’t win!

As to the sink cabinet: like others I have seen that in older homes including one of my own with a 1950s kitchen, and it does seem to be an “ergonomic” choice. I don’t find it ugly or hideous at all and I think when painted it will be less obvious (right now the wood v MDF make things look a little wonkier as the darker middle panels recede more visually. But, if you really hate it, see if he can remake them since that was apparently what you had originally discussed.

The island may get in your way. But it all depends on how you use your kitchen. You may also find the tradeoffs worth it for YOU. I am sure Houzz would rip my kitchen layout apart, but I feel very comfortable moving about in it. I am also not a major cook and didn’t need or want tons of storage (all it does is allow me to collect things and forget about them - I am trying to have less, not more!) so for me my priority in my small kitchen was simplicity and something that “blended” in my open floor plan not dominated. Meanwhile my friend who bakes almost everyday put a significant amount of thought into what they wanted for their new kitchen for how they liked to bake - including a huge island that likely would be accused here of being too large but she looooves it and it is worth trade off to her to have a little more walking around it to have all that space for rolling out dough, setting out baking sheets, and so on. Another friend of mine wanted tons of storage for special occasion items as she entertains a lot, so ran her cabinets right through dining nook in her open floor plan. To me it is “too much kitchen” but she loves all that storage space and does not believe there can ever be “too much kitchen”.

Like anything there is always a way for something to be done “better” but that does not mean better for you, or your budget, or other personal considerations.

ODD, if they used lacquer, one of the great properties of lacquer is that a new coat melts into the old coat, and that occasionally will resolve a trapped moisture issue. Which is why you will sometimes see someone mistakenly refer to repairing moisture damaged lacquer as “refinishing”. It’s technically not a full refinish, but it can repair the existing finish. Or, you can place the product with an issue in a heated environment and it can occasionally dissipate.

But, the larger issue is it’s susceptibility to moisture in the first place.