Should have mentioned in my original post...Town recently passed allowing ADUs, and the “living spaces” above garage is also allowed so long as it does not contain stove and is attached to main. Airbnb’s are allowed here - there are currently over 1000 of them on the OBX. We are a family vacation rental community, for sure. No HOA to deal with. Second floor (studios) will have ocean and golf course views. Was thinking that because one of the bedrooms will be connected via Hall & stairs to the first main (but still have it’s own separate entry so could be closed off entirely), the main could also be considered a “two bedroom” home. Most rental homes here are HUGE, though, with 8 - 10+ bedrooms, and we were thinking that down the road someone could live in the ADU or main and rent out the other spaces to singles or couples, either short or long term, as those types of rentals are very hard to come by these days. Not as many hotels around - older ones get torn down to put up “McMansions,” so smaller rentals are very hard to find.

The question was: Where is it located? What city/town?

Kitty Hawk

Kitty Hawk has no golf courses that are close enough to the ocean to be able to see both at the same time from a second story house. Have you visited this property?

Are you familiar with the Sea Scape area?

Yes, but put it in on Google Earth. You may be able to see the golf course, but you won't be able to see much of the ocean except for a blue haze, there will be too many houses in between and it can't be counted as an ocean view property. It's located "west of the bypass," which is a term of demarcation on the Outer Banks.

To answer as to whether a compound would be a good resale performer: Probably not. People are looking to build "cottages" that sleep 15 people and they can get $6,000 a week for a rental in the summer. My best bet is that people who will look at that property when you decide to sell will be more interested in knocking down what's there than they will be buying it and occupying it. My sister rented a cottage between the highways (in-season) that slept 10 and she paid $1k a week. It had a large living area with sofas, chairs etc that the whole group could gather in and socialize.

Can you pinpoint where it is in that photo?

I don’t think pinpointing where in Kitty Hawk is necessary relating to my original question, is it? The point of whether it has an “ocean view” is not the issue, it is my wondering whether several small units might be an attractive property to someone else in a resort area, to use as either live in one and rent others either year-round or summer months to pay mortgage, rent all during summer and come down yourself rest of year, etc. Here are some views of the “blue haze” from 2nd floors of some neighboring properties, though... which I know many in the real estate industry might consider to be “ocean-view.”

You will never get a bank to finance it, or a town to permit 4 separate dwellings on a single family lot. So resale is entirely moot. One ADU is one thing, when there is a 5 bedroom house in front. This is just a bad apartment complex trying to skim around zoning.

I know that you want this to work. Location matters a lot in the area. As a couple before kids, we looked for 1 bedroom rentals all the time. But we would never ever rent that "ocean view". So it really really matters. I have stayed in 3 bedrooms much closer to the ocean for pretty cheap as a couple. Why? because location mattered that much.

So don't ever pretend that feet to sand doesn't matter when it comes to rental viability or resale. It is everything.

Well healed DINKs don't rent that far back. Well healed DINKs go to Wrightsville or MB and stay in a hotel or they rent closer to the ocean. The customer you are looking for is not 2 people and that is why your plan is not that viable.

Have you looked into what AirBNB would take in this instance? I have to admit being ignorant of such things. My realtor takes 15% and that is just fine when the weekly rental is $5k.

(Sent from an AirBNB in Maine. The 2 of us in a 2 bedroom. Water 15 feet from back door)

Realtors call this "ocean view" but renters do not. It's not a walk but a drive to the ocean. People who live year-round on the beach mostly live west of the bypass where prices are lower or have a home that they've owned so long that it's still affordable for them to live there.

Pinpointing is not unnecessary. The value of homes depends on the distance to the ocean front, like down to the foot. Houses on the east side of SeaScape Golf Course are more expensive than the houses across the green on the west side of the golf course.

I'm not just talking out of my arse. I lived there year-round for several years and as tourist housing is a big part of the revenue on the beach, the locals all understand it; at least half of the year-round population have summer houses they rent out for income. Locals still call summer visitors Tourons and Visitroids and they still wish the tourists would just leave their money at the bridge and go away.

And as I said before, if the home you want to build is atypical for the market there, the re-sale will be lower. IF you want this kind of home and will be using for at least 20 years or are willing to sell it even if the buyer just wants to tear it down and build, then buy it. This is about your happiness, just don't try to talk yourself into thinking it's a good idea. It may be, but make the decision based on the facts, not on wishes.

Maybe the OP doesn't need any financing. Regardless, someone out there will be into your idea of living in one, renting the others. Just not the majority of people or maybe even the majority of tourists. Really, you should call an established realtor in KH and ask them.

As far as the internet wisdom, the only time I'd go all the way to OBX is for something like a family reunion, where we'd want to stay in one of those 15 bed things on the water that can hold families, singles, kids, grandmas and have a pool table, grill, and hot tub. I'd consider your setup if I got transferred there to work for a while, assuming it's cheaper because the view seems way too far away. I don't imagine there is much of a demand for temporary worker housing there. Is there?

Maybe for seasonal workers, like college students who want to wait tables at the beach for the summer?

Correct that we don’t need financing. Incorrect (Sophie Wheeler) that we are trying to accomplish a bad apartment complex skimming around zoning. This town, as well as some of the others on the OBX, (Chamber of Commerce is involved as well) are actually trying to come up with ways to help the housing situation for full time/year round singles, couples and families as well as find housing for summer “temporary” work force. Up until about 10 - 15 years ago it was not too hard to find an affordable year-round rental if you lived and worked here. Quite impossible now... most houses are on summer rental programs or airbnb, then closed up for the winter. If you do find one of those it is just for the off-season Sept. to May, then you are stuck with no housing in the summer. We are a couple who is divorcing, don’t want to leave the area, but neither can afford to purchase our own home here, and also don’t want to have our son uprooted, having to split time between two places. Since we get along so well, we decided to share the property and build two separate small structures, with studio space for son to grow into as well as a spacious studio room for guests who come to visit (never-ending supply of those when you live at the beach, and who wants them underfoot all the time in your own home?). Not trying to skirt zoning, but we are trying to get the most use of the property for our own purposes. I merely asked the original question to get opinions from those in the real estate industry if years down the road we needed to sell, there would be some market, however small, for such a unique property. Thanks for the suggestion to ask local RE agents... I should have probably started with them first!

A friend of ours has a unique property that looks like a beautiful stately house on the outside but on the inside it's two condos. One enters in the front, the other enters in the back. I suppose it could be put back together in to one big house if they broke down a couple of walls and combined the kitchens. Something to consider if you are thinking about selling one day.

Also, inlaw apartments are very appealing to a LOT of people. Explore "Aging in Place" plans.

The more I think about it the more appealing your complex is to me. I could have my place, decorated my way, my husband could have his place, not decorated at all, our college aged kids could have their places, and I'd never have to step over someone else's dirty whatevers again. Maybe your son's spot could be in the middle if you don't want to share a wall with the ex. Just an idea. If you'll be there a long time, it sounds like a decent plan.

Could you build two side-by-side beach boxes? You know, the ones that line the business side of the beach road? I knew a lot of college and just out of college kids who rented those, in fact, some landlords had most of their inventory in housing they'd rent to year round people (not now, though). My folks even had one west of the bypass down First Street in KDH.

You don’t need financing and this plan works for your family now and the foreseeable future- which doesn’t include selling. So do what works for you! Maybe in 15 years it’s a tear down- whatevs, it’s the land that will retain its value, build the structures that allow you and your family to live well now.

Title of the thread: "...Outer Banks, NC - Resale Advice Wanted Before Building..."

"Do whatever you want to", isn't really a response to the request, is it?

Thanks for all the comments! The Town’s ADU laws stipulate that your square footage can be up to half the total of the main (with 800 sf being the max). That is why we plan to incorporate (attach somehow, via roofline and/or stairwells/halls but maintain separate entrances) the main small home w/the two “studios” for roughly 1200 - 1400 sf total, and the ADU would be 600-700 sf. As for the beach boxes and smaller, more affordable rentals... I kid you not - watch the Outer Banks’ Craigslist & real estate companies’ long-term/year-round rentals. It is unbelievable how few & far between they are, and the prices are out-of-reach for most singles. Everyone going for the summer $$ - can’t say I blame them.

Call some local realtors. Get advice from some rental angencies as well. Most people here don't know the market there.

You can’t get a mortgage for 4 units, you have to apply a business loan for it or pay cash. I think it would be easier to sell in the future if you have 2 bedrooms 1 bath units. It sounds like a singles compound with 4 x 1 bedroom 1 bath. :-) But if it works for your family go for it.

Sometimes a divorcing couple can fall back in love as lightning, I hope that could be the case for you two. :-) Get some rose quartz, it may help. https://www.energymuse.com/rose-quartz-meaning

You should probably talk to realtor in your location. My thoughts are you might be better with some sort of multi-family duplex - with 2/2 units in each side - plus an actual 1 bedroom (not studio) ADU if resale is a concern over . Even if you need to apply for rezonig. That way down road you are not limiting yourself to singles but open also to families who want some rental income or multi families (like family with children plus in-laws). Many singles or couples will even want more than a one-bedroom or studio for office space, a den, etc.

I suspect the other issue might be getting approval for this. If the town has ADU bylaws it is because they are trying to regulate them...you won’t be fooling anyone by creating walkways between units to get them to count as “one” so you can build a bigger separate ADU if they all clearly have separate entrances, their own kitchenettes, etc.

But, I am not of the area and don’t know your real estate market or planning and development office.

Correct, Virgil! I’m suggesting that the OP can reframe her thinking to not include resale as a high priority because a) as it is often noted on this very forum, if you plan to be in the home longer than 5-10 years then resale is a nebulous and challenging set of parameters to meet. And b) she seems pretty convinced that there is indeed a market for studio/1Bdr abodes for year round or seasonal residents, not just vacationers. If she has 10+ years of successful renting of the fourth unit when it does come time to sell it stands to reason that a buyer would see the value.

Not being able to afford separate dwellings after a divorce and the ability to pay all cash for an expensive build like this does not compute. If you cannot afford one, the other will not be any more affordable. It’s going to be more expensive in the end.

I think ninigret's idea is the best, it's basically a duplex. It might be out of sight for college students (seasonal) or construction workers (year round) but a young family could afford to rent it. I wonder how a cluster of tiny houses would go over in terms of year-round rentals. It wouldn't fit for your purposes but the area needs to tackle the over-the-top housing prices or there will be nobody left to work in all the restaurants, stores or hotels. There are a lot of cottages that are closed up in September and not re-opened until April or May.

This morning I heard a story on the radio about how prices have not really gone up for Outer Banks real estate, especially ocean side because of the encroaching ocean. In 20 years, your house could be beach front property.

Over the top housing prices?

Kitty Hawk is about like Cary prices. And there is the option to commute. I haven't looked but 10 min inland I suspect you can buy a big house for $150k.

Try Northern CA for over the top.

Interesting how you say "over the top" in one part and then "have not really gone up" in the next paragraph.

Sophie Wheeler - we own our current home. With the sale of it, we can accomplish a build ourselves (ex-to-be has been in construction 40+ years) and have new digs to suit our new dynamics. If we instead split proceeds and EACH have to buy a lot upon which to build ($100K - $150K + in our area for starters) it dramatically cuts into available building funds.

David Cary - Homes 10 min. inland in the $150k range are manufactured or trailers. A stick-built of about 1000 - 1200 sf begins in the low 200s.

There is totally no way Kitty Hawk and Cary housing prices compare. A new house on the beach in the Outer Banks would be "over the top" upwards of $1.5 million (see the link) A family of four making about $100k a year wouldn't be able to afford it. Cary may have a few $1.5m houses but it's predominantly middle class and above, people who work for the hospitals or at RTI. Cary has neighborhoods with families in it but KH has two types of housing: Summer rentals and year-round residences. If you're buying a house in KH Woods or Colington, it will be much less expensive than if you're buying a house on the Beach road and there may even be a few trailers back up the road in Colington

You can commute from Point Harbor and Currituck County, which would be fine if you worked in Kitty Hawk. Any further down the beach means the drain wouldn't pay off; forget a commuting to a job in Manteo unless you were making good money. In the winter it'd be fine but commuting in the summer with all the tourists there would be a nightmare. When I lived there, the Trailways bus ran a route down through Currituck county to ending at Manteo at 9am and leaving Manteo at 5pm. All of the hotel maids who lived in Currituck county rode that bus and employers made their schedules to accommodate it, which made it worthwhile for people who commuted from Currituck. I doubt it's still running like that anymore.

The Outer Banks will soon become too expensive for a regular family to live there, unless the county figures out some way to slow down or stop the growth.

"On the beach"

Off the beach is wickedly less expensive. There are townhouses for 150-200k. 2000 sqft houses for 325k. Pretty much like Cary.

On the beach and new construction is $1.5M. Not surprising and completely not relevant to a discussion about affordable housing. Guess what, new construction and on a golf course in Cary is usually $1.8M and up. Again, completely irrelevant.

Why would a county want to slow down price growth of housing which is their primary source of income? That would be insane. And to your prior point, the price growth has been stagnant. Returning to sometime when middle class could have an oceanfront house and not rent it? Not going to happen.

Because the more it grows, the more environmental problems begin to crop up because it's a very fragile ecosystem and people are trying to overbuild that ecosystem. Heck, it's against the law to pick the sea grass that stabilizes the dunes.

If you look at the aerial photo mousymiss posted, you'll see NC Highway 12 and to the right of that you see the beachfront. There are some brown roofs that indicate where houses are and there are many big gaps in that line, not like on the other side of the road. In the 70's, the houses were packed in tight next to one another but over time, about half of them in the KH area have washed away. The beach road (hwy 12) is sometimes undercut by the ocean, especially up near Kitty Hawk Road and they have to close it temporarily until someone comes in and shores it up.

I knew many kids who lived on the ocean or the beach road year-round. Now it's all tourists. It will never go back to being a place where a middle class family can rent a cottage on the beach and that's why the monstrosities that sleep 15 people exist. Two or three families get together and rent one cottage for the week, that's the only way renting on the beach is affordable for such a family. Those monstrosities aren't going up in value in any noticeable way because no one can be sure if they're going to be there in 20 years.

There is nothing about Outer Banks real estate that is like Cary, NC. A tourist area and a business area are two different creatures. People in Cary don't knock down an 1,800 sf house built in 1960 to put up a 3,000 sf cottage with three floors and an observation deck above and then rent it out in the summer. Yes, there's residential housing, but that's not the booming real estate market that drives the Outer Banks.

Interesting side note/follow-up regarding OBX market... just received a mid-year report flyer mailing from a local real estate company: Year 2018 as of end of June, units are down 4% overall but sales volume had 1% increase. Average days on market = 134 compared to 167 last year. Of the 379 properties listed & sold since 1/1, average days on market is 27 and high being only 131. Average sales price is $424,626, the highest seen in nearly 10 years.

All immaterial unless the planning department and/or HOA approves a 4 unit project on a single family site... doubtful.

Different RE markets but similarly affordable. What does picking sea grass have to do with RE values?

I built at Topsail recently and my structure impacted the environment less than any existing house. It wasn't a tear down though.

Erosion has little to do with well planned structures. Tearing down a 1000 ft cottage and building again is not making hwy 12 go away.

Erosion happens because ... it does. For those who don't know NC law, we build 60 feet back from the stable front line of vegetation. We can't touch the dunes when we build. In my town, we have to install gutters and run them down to an underground cistern. Though rainwater has little to do with erosion.

So yes the ecosystem is fragile. Don't ever walk on the dunes. But waves and storms are the real issues. Since I built 5 years ago, our dune has grown 8-10 feet. Despite our new construction...

My point about the sea grass (name: sea oats) is that the environment, specifically the dune line, something that's always been true. It's subject to extreme storms and nor-easters blow in, often doing more damage than hurricans. Topsail doesn't get that because it's protected by being in the curved coastline, below Hatteras and Ocracoke. The continuing coastal erosion problem affects home prices, as I mentioned above. While still desirable RE, beachfront housing prices are not going up exponentially like they were before.

Topsail is oriented on the coast differently, it faces southeast instead of straight east like the OBX. Just because the dunes are growing on Topsail doesn't mean they're growing on every beach. Jetties are often proposed in order to mitigate that.

So how much time have you spent in the Kitty Hawk/Nags Head area, David?

OBX realty is pretty unique. If you haven’t spent a LOT of time there, and don’t know folks in the related industries there, it’s darn near impossible for you to “get it”.

Personally, I think such a build would be very popular as a rental. I know many single people that would love such a unit. And the seasonal worker industry is just insane there...but whether or not they could even afford a single unit....that might be a problem. Lots of migrant workers....Russian women...that sort of thing.

OP, you might peruse this forum for more info:

http://www.obxconnection.com/outer-banks-forum/default.aspx

FWIW, I frequently walk that Seascape area - and I would never call that an "ocean view", nor would other folks that are familiar with that area.

Multiple kitchens - that definitely doesn't meet code in Kitty Hawk, for "residential", which is limited to ONE kitchen.

https://www.kittyhawknc.gov/vertical/sites/%7B991BBDF3-791F-4435-80BA-FEB8F8D09BA4%7D/uploads/RESIDENTIAL_BUILDING_GUIDE.doc

Also, not sure you would meet these guidelines. Definitely need to do your research before putting any of your eggs in a basket.

https://www.kittyhawknc.gov/vertical/sites/%7B991BBDF3-791F-4435-80BA-FEB8F8D09BA4%7D/uploads/February_5_2018_Council_Minutes.pdf

Do you ever go back into Kitty Hawk Village? I used to have a lot of friends there, and my Mom went up there every day to get her mail at the post office, before she moved to First Street in KDH.

Not sure where that is...I don't live there, but am there many many weekends, year-round, as my BF lives just across the bridge. We do a lot of walking/hiking/biking in the woods right there (as well as many other places in the area) - I've walked/biked down Eckner St. more times than I can remember. :-) Ever eat at Art's Place? Hurricane Mo's?

Nope, but have you ever eaten at Sam & Omie's? They're down at Whalebone Junction at the southern end of Nags Head and their crab cakes are to die for!

A bit of advice no one asked for...

This is just a bad idea. If you can't live together in the same house, then you probably can't live together in different houses either.

The things that make living together difficult are going to be amplified by living apart and having a vested interest in the other's choices. The more each person develops their own life, the more chance of resentment.

I grew up in an area with lots of family farms and I saw this all the time. Land given to a son or daughter to build a house, and then years later the son or daughter just want out of the house or are getting a divorce and things will turn ugly.

I admit, this doesn't happen every time, but the problem is that there is no criteria for determining whether it will happen to you. You are going to be a different person in 5 or 10 years and so is your soon to be ex spouse. Whether or not those two people are still compatible in this arrangement is chance.

Good luck

A bit of advice you asked for...

Go talk to a mortgage broker or apply for a few mortgages on the plan. If you can't get a mortgage on it noone else can, and you can assume that a property without mortgage is going cheap.

The whole idea of someone wanting it for rentals is a bit meh. I looked into the vaca rental business and it is OK, but half of the people on Airbnb are owners who couldn't sell the property and so they rent it out. The other half are people who loved it for their family vacation but want to offset the cost a bit.

Also remember there are two parts to resale... price and time. Great resale value is worth less if you have to wait years for it.

Nope! :-) We don't spend a ton of time at that end, but once in a while we get down there - I love Jennette's Pier, but now you have to pay to walk on it so we don't. :-) I'm not a huge seafood fan (don't like crabs but BF freaking loves crabcakes so I bet he has eaten at Sam & Omie's). Hurricane Mo's has outrageous shrimp - and that comes from someone is not much of a shrimp fan either - but I can put away some of theirs!

This sounds really weird...

The answer to your question seems to be a resounding "no it is not good for resale" from those who know the area.

I hate to bring this kind of thing up on houzz, but are you sure that living situation will work long enough to make building the tiny units worth it? It is great that you and your ex still get a long so well, but what if one of you decides to start dating again? Or starts get serious with someone else? That sounds super awkward no matter how well you get along still.

"The whole idea of someone wanting it for rentals is a bit meh. I looked into the vaca rental business and it is OK,"

The vacation rental business in OBX is pretty busy. I know at least 5 people that have built there (one is family) JUST for rental income. They stay a few weeks a year themselves, and rent it out the rest of the year.

" but are you sure that living situation will work long enough to make building the tiny units worth it?"

I agree that that^^ is probably the more serious issue.

The vacation rental business in OBX is pretty busy.

I was typing on my phone and really just went for brevity. I should have been more clear. I have a place on Longboat Key, which is the market I was looking at, and while that is certainly a different market, the business isn't actually that different.

I never said that the rental business isn't thriving, I just said that the idea of someone wanting it for rentals is a bit meh. There are really three kinds of people in the vacation rental business. (1) Those who want a vacation property, but only want to use it part of the year, (2) those who wanted to sell it but couldn't get their asking price, and (3) the pros (which is closer to what I would be).

The problem with small separate units is that it is only a great opportunity for the pros. People who want a family vacation home don't want separate one bedroom houses, and so you are going to have a tough time marketing to that group. The pros, are all about buying cheap. Someone who is actually in the rental business would salivate over this property, but not because of all the income it will generate, but because it screams all cash deal and those who regularly do all cash deals tend not to overpay.

My rental profit is made the day I buy a house. I know what rent is going to be, I know what occupancy rate is going to look like, so the only variable is what I am spending on the house. I don't know that I have ever bought a rental property that was marketed to the general public, either it was put up for investors or it never hit the market. I would guess the real estate investors in OBX are looking for a 12% ROI. So I just don't see them lining up with their checkbooks to buy this property for top dollar.

So I would be cautious building a property that you hope someone interested in owning a rental will purchase. It isn't that they won't, it is just that as a group real estate investors tend not to pay as much.

ETA: Yes these are generalizations, but that is what you use for trying to look at a future resale value.

Is this ocean front? I just read in the paper today that houses on the Carolina's coasts have lost billions in value in the last 10yrs due to the ocean rising. It was in the Charlotte Obs. I live near Charlotte. My wife and I went on vacation on the outer banks for 20 yrs. LOVE it!

It is not ocean front. The problem in the coast is generally erosion. Yes that is made somewhat worse by rising ocean levels over time but it is more about currents and storms. The sea level rise in this part of the coast has been modest. So as someone who is frustrated with the lack of action on AGW and subsequent sea level rise, I would say what you read is likely an oversimplification or just wrong.

But maybe I am just defending my building on the coast? Our ROI is not quite 12% (closer to 5%) but we use it. I would mention that I think at current RE prices, the coast can be a good investment. There is somewhat of a misunderstanding about sea level rise and the future of the coast which negatively impacts purchase price.

Topsail is of course affected by nearly the same sea level rise as OBX (it varies regionally but they are perhaps 200 miles apart) but has far less erosion issues. The north side of Topsail has houses falling into the ocean but the south side has expanding dunes. It is erosion and not sea level rise that is the primary factor. The expanding dunes have much to do with an aggressive beach renourishment project that is not a one-time deal but is a long term maintenance project.

Our house's floor structure is 24 feet above sea level. The worst projection I have found is 6 feet rise by 2100. Now - at that level - probably access to the island is compromised - but we are talking 80 years. But our house will still be way above the water line even during a decent storm.