Mostly her blooms stay in the shape they are in the photo of the vaseful. They don’t often show the stamens, often remaining in a ball shape.

Edited to add; Some blooms DO look like yours, Jeri. But my blooms don’t show stamens very often. It always bothered me that Louise Odier is reported to have leaflets of 5, while mine has 7. Carol(?) I think DID find a book with a photo that showed 7 leaflets for Louise Odier. I wish I knew how to post a link to that thread. It’s called, “Is this a Louise Odier sucker?”

Lisa

If you mean, “Do the blooms vary in color as they emerge?” No, they do not. They are always brightish pink. Lisa

Edited to add; I see what you mean about the leaf shape. As I was quickly scrolling down to the bottom of this thread, the photos were flashing by, without my knowing which were Jeri’s, and which were mine. Just a quick second glance at a foliage picture told me it was Jeri’s picture, because it looked so different from the foliage I see every day on my “Louise Odier”. (I don’t know what to call her anymore.) She smells like my other Bourbon’s, but I don’t have the best nose. Her NOT being Louise Odier would certainly explain her wonderful behavior in my garden. I DO have quite a few other Bourbon roses, and they are blooming ok for just being planted in January. (Except for Boule de Neige. As soon as I have the energy, that one is going to the great garden in the sky.) Most of the Bourbon roses that I have are doing great. I actually went ahead and chose many of them from Cliff, based on how well my Louise Odier was performing.

It’s not that I mind so much if she’s not Louise Odier, but I’d like to know what rose this is. I’m also feeling terrible about recommending Louise Odier to so many people, if this isn’t Louise Odier.

This rose roots from cuttings easier than any rose I’ve ever tried to root, btw. It blooms from April to November with very few weeks without any blooms. Who in the world is this amazing rose? Thanks Lisa

On HMF LO blooms seemed more cup shaped vs GH had more reflexed back petals and stamens showing. I only have GH from Annie's Annuals so I'm no help. I just looked at my GH and I see what Kim and you mean about the peach leaf look to the leaves, Jeri.

I am inclined to think that you have "Grandmother's Hat".

The thing is, there are several different clones of GramHat -- and there are subtle differences between them. One thing to look for is that Grandmother's Hat is a rather "smooth" rose. Not that it has NO thorns, but it does have few. Let's see what I can find to illustrate that . . .

This sort of shows it. You can't see any prickles in these images, see? Where your images have a lot of prickles.

My LO has five leaflets... your rose does not resemble my LO. It looks like a Hybrid Perpetual but I cannot identify it...

I think it's "Grandmother's Hat" -- The only thing that gives me pause is those prickles you showed.

I’m all sorts of confused. I’m inclined to think Grandmother’s Hat, although it’s obviously from a different mother plant (clone) than Jeri’s. Mine has very ball shaped buds, not elongated. I see what you mean about the thorns and prickles. Whatever she is, I’m beginning to seriously doubt she’s Louise Odier.

Does anyone have a Louise Odier or even better, a Grandmother’s Hat from Rogue Valley Roses? I’d really like to see their clone of Grandmother’s Hat, and whatever they’re selling as Louise Odier. I would love to know who this “superstar” of my garden is. Thanks so much. If I can find more “picture clues”, I’ll post them. Lisa

Ok, more pictures. I feel like I’m really hacking this rose down, for pictures, but she always makes new blooms, usually in clusters of round buds.

New growth tip

Sorry about the bug droppings. This rose is NOT very pleasant to handle without gloves. I rarely wear gloves, but there are lots of small prickles that make her unpleasant to grab tightly.

I don’t know how well you can see the prickles.

Thank you. Those do look like my blooms, but I don’t know what to think. She certainly behaves more like GH! Lisa

If your rose has ". . . lots of small prickles that make her unpleasant to grab tightly" it is NOT "Grandmother's Hat."

Vestfl, thank you for uploading the pics on HMF. That is so sweet of you and I love it.

Jin

I hope that this thread will eventually help id your stupendous rose, Lisa...for purely selfish reasons LOL! so I can hopefully get one for my own garden!!!

I agree with Bart! I want one too!!

What ever it is, it is gorgeous!

I actually think regardless of what this rose turns out to be I’m going to have to plant Louise Odier somewhere in my yard next spring, I started researching it after seeing Lisa post great things about it and it’s a truly beautiful rose and bourbons have done well for me so I’m going to need LO in my garden lol.

Lisa I honestly do hope you figure out the correct ID of your rose, I think it would make be nuts not knowing.

I thank you for all your help and comments! I AM going nuts not knowing what I’m growing:) Strawchicago really tipped me off the other day, and pretty much convinced me that she just couldn’t possibly be Louise Odier. She said she had been wanting one from Burlington for (I think) 3 years, and it was never available. Finally, she asked Burling about Louise Odier, and Burling said that she hadn’t been propagating LO, because she did so poorly in the heat of CA. Straw and I both know how honest Burling is, so it makes no sense that Louise Odier would bloom so well for me. I do have other Bourbon roses that do very well, so it’s not all Bourbons that don’t like our warm winters and hot summers. Jeri’s experience with ‘Boule de Neige’ convinced me that BdN is one that hates it here! No blooms at all for me, and one beautiful cluster for Jeri in 5 years!

I really wish all this had come up a few weeks sooner. I’m sure Kim Rupert would have made short work of identifying my rose, if I had only known to bring him a sample. Next time I see someone “in the know”, I’ll do just that.

I don’t blame you for wanting one, Bart and boncrow! Whoever she is, she’s the best rose I have! ( Oh, wait a minute, maybe almost. I forgot about my beloved Mel’s Heritage for a minute.). Lisa

Lisa...I'm not experienced enough to answer the question of the identity of your rose, but why do think she's not Louise based on her constant bloom in your garden? All the descriptions of LO say she's a near continual bloomer.

Also, my rose garden is still young, but I have been STUNNED by how well roses are doing that have reputations as being difficult to grow, stingy bloomers, etc. I think If a rose really likes it's particular "home" it can really thrive.

I just looked through my papers and my Louise Odier is from RVR. I'm going to look at it now and take a pic for you!

My GH from Annie's Annuals is relatively smooth, but has 5 leaflet leaves. Is that wrong? It is a baby, does that matter? Will it get 7 when it is older?

Now I think I see a 7 leaflet leaf on my own photo. I give up.

Oh dear! It seems I've lost the labels to 3 roses that all look alike and are planted near each other: Baronne Prevost, Mrs. John Laing, and Louise Odier. Not only is the foliage similar, but the spent blooms are as well. When they bloom again I may be able to tell them apart.

They are all small plants planted last summer.

Hallelujah, Roselady! That should help tremendously. I’m SO glad someone has a ‘Louise Odier’ from RVR!

There are several reasons I doubt my Louise Odier’s ID. Yes, one of them is her continuous blooming, especially through the summer heat. But, that’s not the only reason. Mine has leaflets of 7, while usually Louise Odier has 5. I once searched the entire bush, and found only 3 leaflets containing 5 leaves. Others have commented here and there that she didn’t quite look like Louise Odier. Mine never has quartered blooms, nor a button eye. I’ve seen photos of Louise Odier blooms with both,(not all though). Her scent, although wonderful, isn’t quite the same as the rest of my Bourbons. They all have a “distinctly Bourbon rose” scent, while hers is different. She doesn’t get any “yucky” leaves like some of my Bourbons do. (I spray NONE of them.) Burlington Roses isn’t selling Louise Odier because she performed so poorly without a winter. And, let’s face it. She came from Rogue Valley Roses, and they have a reputation for sending out incorrect roses. Lisa

No problem, Roselady:) Easy to do. Anytime you have any pictures, I’d love to see them:) Someone once suggested mine might be Mrs. John Laing. IIRC, it was Marlorena.

I have Baronne Prevost myself, and my BP has MUCH brighter blooms and larger, coarser foliage. I just took a photo of my Baronne Prevost for another thread this morning.

Baronne Prevost

Lisa

I’m sure you have a real Grandmother’s Hat, Sheila. Annie’s doesn’t sell many roses, and doesn’t often make mistakes. I’ve been THIS close to ordering GH from Annie’s many times:). Lisa

Sheila, my Grandmother's Hat came from Annie's, and she's wonderful. I have admired the mother plant at Annie's many times.

Lisa, your GMH photos sure do look like my GMH, blooms and leaves. My rose is overall quite smooth BUT there are some random stems that have thorns and some prickles. Also, the young foliage of GMH is said to be fragrant when you rub the leaves. I seem to notice a scent sometimes, nothing very powerful, but not always, and haven't checked often. But I thought it might be something for you to check out, in case.

I'm glad you got a great rose for your climate, Lisa. This mislabeling thing is annoying. I've gotten some great surprises from RVRs. It probably is much easier to keep track of the varieties when a company only sells a few roses like you say Lisa. Thank you shebabee for your remarks about the mother plant of GH at Annies. I don't know why I went all insecure after Lisa's identity question.

Looks like I have GH! I have heard from “Strawchicago”, and she gave this explanation. Unfortunately I don’t know how to copy and paste more than a single word, so I’ll have to paraphrase what she told me. Hopefully, I can explain it as clearly as she did to me.

Straw said that her vigorous roses grown in heavy clay soil like mine, grow more thorns and prickles. Their roots absorb more calcium and potassium from the mineral rich clay, and become thornier and have more prickles as they mature.

I have very rich, heavy clay soil. This could certainly explain why everything about my rose matches GH, except for the prickles. Lisa

Well, WHO KNEW?

All in all, I think you got the right rose for your climate. I've never had much luck here with Bourbons, but you know "New Orleans Cemetery Rose" is looking GREAT -- and it is a supposed Bourbon (maybe 'Pierre de St. Cyr') -- so maybe if you really want to add a Bourbon, you might look for that.

Jeri, same here. My Bourbons are all juveniles and I haven't had any of them for longer than 4 months but New Orleans Cemetery Rose so far is the happiest Bourbon I have. It makes me wonder if she is really a Bourbon.

I just took a gander at my GMH. It was too dark for photos, but there are definitely prickles clustered in some areas on certain canes; other areas are very smooth. I'll try to take and post a pic this weekend for you, but your blooms sure do look like mine. Mine has the long tapered leaves you can see best in Jeri's first pic -- are your mature leaves like that?

I don't know Louise O. well at all, but there is one (usually not terribly happy) one in Golden Gate Park, not far from me, and it didn't make me think of GHM. When I first saw your photos, however, I thought, GMH!

Sheila, my GMH from Annie's took off very quickly when I put her in the ground and started blooming and being beautiful and perfumey very fast. I think you'll get a good idea of her GHM-ness pretty quickly! And again, I have pretty crappy soil and very limited sun and damp foggy SF climate. She does get some blackspot like just about everything else here, but it's not enough to bother me and she just keeps growing and blooming. I love this rose and thank you, Jeri, for inspiring me.

My Grandmother's Hat came from Vintage Gardens. I wrote Gregg Lowery back in 2012 to ask where Vintage's clone came from. He told me it came from Barbara Worl's mother plant. I am posting some photos of my plant which is growing in partial shade (thanks to advice from Ingrid that this rose didn't do well in her hot garden in full sun). Soil in my garden is mostly very sandy loam, very fast-draining, with some areas nothing much but sand and rocks, and one strip of clay (that is slick as a skating rink after a rain). Grandmother's Hat is planted in a location close to the strip of clay, but not quite in it, the soil is really a combination of the usual sandy loam with a little clay mixed in. Buds on my plant are more elongated than the ones that may or may not be Louise Odier. Canes have far fewer thorns/prickles and the flowering habit is a bit different. Colors vary quite a bit from bright pink to pale pink, all with a lavender tint.

Melissa

Melissa, what a gorgeous rose.

An interesting thing ... I have "Grandmother's Hat" from three different sources. Not only do all of them vary noticeably through the year -- each of the clones is slightly different from the other. They're all clearly the same rose, but with slight differences mostly in color.

OK. One thing I see . . . On Grandmother's Hat, the stipule has a red line up the middle -- I don't see that on your rose.

More than the leaves. Look at the stipule, and compare to . . .

I am INCLINED to think that your rose is 'Louise Odier' -- but without standing in front of it, I wouldn't put my hand on a Bible and swear.

From looking at Louise Odier at helpmefind, I have the impression that it's a rose that is not very upright. It seems to bend over under the weight of the blooms. I've always had the impression that Grandmother's Hat was a more upright rose? Am I correct in seeing that distinction?

My LO has low thorn count and very bindy cane. If my LO is the real deal, yours is either a sport or another rose

As you can see, the blooms are very quartered and never blousy

Sorry, that is actually madam isaac, here is LO

It won’t let me post. One more try

Ingrid makes a really good point. The HABIT of the plant is one important key to identification.

I haven't really looked at 'Louise Odier' for -- well -- decades. It and other Bourbons were unsuccessful in what used to be our cool, mild, coastal climate so we swore off them. (We have a few, now, as our climate is altering, but not L.O.)

All that said, yes. 'Louise Odier' was a rather lax shrub, sort of halfway to being a low climber.
Take a look at: http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.267628

"Grandmother's Hat", by contrast, is sturdily upright, and will eventually make a generous freestanding, self-supporting BUSH.

Sorry it took me a while to come back to this thread. I’m still recovering from the flu.

I’m just not sure what to think my rose is. I did quickly step outside to take a full plant photo. Normally by now, she’d already have a slight trim, but I’m behind. Lisa

Honestly, I do not think this is "Grandmother's Hat".