Hi Tammy: Louise Odier likes alkaline clay & partial shade (info. from Marianne in Sweden). Louise Odier does well in partial shade for Niels' slightly acidic soil in Denmark.

From the picture, it looks like potassium and calcium deficiency, which happens in very acidic soil. I understand you have acidic red clay? Potassium is needed to fight diseases, and calcium is needed for thick & perky & healthy leaves. Your picture of wilted & yellowish leaves also look like aluminum toxicity, which occurs in very acidic soil.

My brother in MI has acidic clay, and lime does wonder to his soil and crop. He has 33+ acres of land. It's easier to fix acidic clay than to fix my alkaline clay. Good luck, Tammy!

Below is the procedure I wrote to test any soil in your garden for its pH. It's more accurate than pH meter since it allows time for the soil elements to interact with the red cabbage juice, which shows a wider range than litmus test (lichen based).

Here is a link that might be useful: Cheapest way to test soil pH using red cabbage

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sat, May 11, 13 at 18:06

Yes, you are correct, Strawberry, I do have red acidic clay... you have a great memory! (I always have lovely blue hydrangeas, even when I want them to be red LOL) I hadn't even thought about the pH being an issue since most of my OGRs love it here! She's been like this shorly after she went in the ground 3 summers ago, and before that, was perfectly happy has a potted plant. I'll have to ammend the soil it sounds like. :) Thanks for the advice!

Tammy

I've found Bourbons very hard to grow in our climate. They do'nt like the soil and they blackspot--including the other blackspotty fungi--like crazy. I give them plenty of air, away from damp areas, and lime.

Thanks Catrose :) It looks like I'll be heading out to by some lime tomorrow. I'm also going to add it to my other bourbons. They don't look nearly as bad as poor Louise, but it can't hurt!

Tammy

My late Louise Odier recognizes your problem and applauds your attempt to fix it.

Remember to adjust your lime applications to keep up with our rainfall.

It is perfectly normal for long-caned bourbons to have hellacious blackspot in the Southern Appalachian climate.

I'd suggest you check the pH around the plant before adding lime. If it's around 6, that's nearly ideal for roses. The inexpensive Rapi-test meter works for me.

I would suggest testing the soil too

My poor Don Juan looks similar. I have been lurking on this thread to see what people suggested. Pretty sure my soil is WAY different than yours, although Don is planted fairly close to the sidewalk if that leaches acids

What's really odd, is that Louise's neighbor is Zeffy, and Zeffy is happy as can be! I guess even though they're both bourbons, they still have significantly different soil requirements?On the other hand, her other neighbor is John Hopper, and while he's not as unhappy as Louise, he's not super thrilled either.

I just tested my soil using two different soil tests. The one where you drop a capsule in with soil and water came back 6.5, and the kind that you stick in the soil came back 5.5. I did the soil test in the same spot for both tests, and they came back different...so who knows!

Tammy

Kippy,

Concrete leaches lime or alkalinity into the soil, not acid. It is common to see roses planted next to concrete having pale foliage because the lime inhibits the uptake of iron. The common mineral deficiencies in roses are encouraged by high (limey) pH, not low (acid) pH.

Tammy,

I have no idea whether the tests you used are even in the ballpark, but if they are, the pH is OK. If it is 6.5, you should not add lime. You might consider getting a complete soil test via the county agent (ag extension or cooperative extension service under the county listings). But I don't know that you have a soil problem as opposed to a normal blackspot problem with a highly susceptible variety.

Hi Tammy: Western Australian Government site has a more accurate chart of nutritional deficiency than Cornell University.

At very acidic range, nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus, calcium, magnesium, and molybdenum are deficient.

At very alkaline range, phosphorus, iron, manganese, copper and zinc are deficient.

I got my soil test via EarthCo. (google it, and you'll see). It's cheaper and more comprehensive my local county Extension. Karl Bapst recommended EarthCo. For $20, you get accurate pH, organic matter, potassium, phosphorus, calcium, magnesium level of your soil.

My soil pH is 7.7 ... roses are pale but very healthy ... although my soil test revealed most deficient in phosphorus, then a bit deficient in potassium, and barely adequate in calcium (Never mind that I have limestone clay!).

When I topdressed my plants with horse manure with iron and trace elements, they become dark green ... just like what Kim (Roseseek) said about horse manure. I haven't gotten manure for my roses since we have constant rain.

Check out the link below as to what's deficient in acid or alkaline range:

Here is a link that might be useful: Western Australian Nutrient deficiency chart

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sun, May 12, 13 at 16:04