MIP, Louise Odier, Honorine de Brabant,et al.

16 years ago

I think I've got a good understanding how MIP grows as a climber. Are any of these other roses destined to grow in a similar way?

Louise Odier

Honorine de Brabant

Gypsy Boy

La Reine Victoria

Variegata di Bologna

Coquette des Blanches

Edith de Murat

Mlle. Blanche Lafitte

Maggie

I also have some other bourbons that I think I know what to expect, so if you could compare the growth habits of those listed above either to MIP or one of these, it would be helpful...

Boule de Neige

SDLM

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Comments (6)

barbarag_happy
16 years ago
Maggie is quite vigorous, so much so that I'm moving mine from the bed to grow her as a climber instead. Both of my plants-- one at home and one at the arboretum-- simply shot up the first year. You are a full zone cooler, tho, so your Maggie may make a bush. MIP could go either way but I grow her as a climber due to her BS tendencies, so I can spread her out. She's on a freestanding support, not against a fence which I don't think would work w/her. I think we're more limited in the Bourbons we can grow down here, so hope you get some more responses from 6 & 7 folks.
mendocino_rose
16 years ago
I grow MIP without support pruned to hold herself up while Madame Ernst next to her grows on a ladder. Maggie is shaded a bit and seems uninclined to climb. Honorine is a big wide shrub. I guess she could be encouraged to climb a bit. Variegata has long more flexible canes but is still a shrub in my garden. Same with Louise. Mlle Blanche is a young rose in my garden but looks like it might want to climb. Coquette des Blanches is still 4 feet after a couple of years(might be a wrong location)
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Your request has been siting for 3 days so time to tell you about growing it in the zone 3a prairie so take the info at marginal value to you since your in zone 5. Anyways, I have been growing it 5 years and protected from winter and it's what I would call a mid-range tolerant bourbon for winter die back - not as robust as Louise Odier and Prince Napoleon, but vastly superior to ZÃ©phirine Drouhin for cane retention. It's has very distinctive pale green foliage (not unhealthy pale) that I find attractive and very distinct leaf form when compared to other bourbons. The leaf form to my eyes borders on "columnar" and they have very gentle crenulations - not induced by powdery mildew. All round the foliage makes for an attractive bush as the leaves tend to also droop like a weeping fig. It is a late bloomer in my garden mainly because it is in partial shade. It's not unusual for the first bloom to occur in late July. The blooms have a high frequency of being malformed, but when you get a perfect one it has a very appealing double form with a mid to strong distinction between the pink and white markings. Acceptable fragrance but not in the same league as Prince Napoleon, MIP or Louise Odier. The blooms are about 2 inches in size. It, as for most of my bourbons, has a susceptibility to powdery mildew. Black spot pressure is low in my area.
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Daisy, In my part of California we have a dry warm summer and cool sometimes rainy winter, but much less of the cool fog influence Jerijen has. Quite different roses do well for me than do for her. I grow several Bourbons successfully with only a single winter spray. They are Louise Odier, Honorine de Brabant, and Deuil de Dr Reynaud. DeDR gets a fair amount of powdery mildew some years late in the summer, and LO gets that cane dieback that some Bourbons seem to get. HdB doesn't get anything here. Funny as it seems I had very poor luck with Souvenir de Malmaison. My first (own root) plant proliferated with every rose it ever bore. I culled it and tried again, this time with a grafted plant that may have been virused. That one got some hideous creeping crud disease and I threw it away in horror. You might also want to consider some of the more disease resistant of the hybrid perpetuals. I was hesitant to try them but they now number among my favorite roses. Rosefolly
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We had to get rid of our "Mme. Isaac Pereire" because it defoliated from disease in Richmond, Ca along with its pink sport "Mme. Ernst Calvat" grown in Oakland, ca which I had bought for its' intense fragrance. M.I.P is one of the most fragrant roses on earth, but there are others equally as fragrant and much healthier when grown in the East Bay. I've been documenting roses that bloom well in no-spray and organic method gardens in the san francisco east bay in both public and private gardens for the last 10 years. Healthiest red roses out of dozens of Old Red roses evaluated in the s.f. east bay: Francis Dubruiel" FFFF out of five F's for fragrance. several old rose nurseries sell this rose which has an intense damask rose type scent, the type of scent which one expects from a red rose. "Crimson GLory" FFFFF out of five F's. shapely red roses that are deeply fragrant. I found this on the property I bought last year and have never needed to spray it with anything. Slightly less fragrant but still very fragrant, and just as healthy in this area, is "Etoille de Hollande" a red rose that appears to enjoy a large fan and enthusiastic fan base. a modern H.T. from the 1960's: "Papa Meilland" huge goblet shaped crimson roses that fade with purple on the edges. I find myself singing that old Joni Mitchell song to it..."I could drink a case of you" for its perfume is so very intoxicating. A must for collectors of fragrant red H.T.s.. if vintagegardens.com and roguevalleyroses.com doesn't have these roses in stock, I'd try hortico.com or pickeringnurseries.com in the winter for bare root plants. Caveat Rosa: "Gruss an Teplitz" became defoliated in two local gardens in Richmond and Emeryville and both rosebushes were destroyed. "Chyrsler Imperial" was destroyed after becoming defoliated from disease in my neighbors garden. two other roses I had to get rid of because they were coated with disease, were "Monsieur Boncenne" a red H.P., and "Rose des Rescht" both of these roses were coated with rust and defoliated. Both were unsightly and sadly useless because a rosebush cannot bloom without foliage to allow photosynthesis. Hope this is of help. Lux.
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rosefolly
16 years ago
Louise Odier throws out big long canes and (here) reblooms nicely. However, each individual cane dies after about a year, sometimes a bit more, sometimes a bit less. You can never build up a structure of old wood. I thought I was doing something wrong, though I couldn't think what it could be, until I read several other members post that theirs behaved exactly the same way. Now I think of it as a unique kind of woody herbaceous perennial and we get along just fine.

Rosefolly
ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
16 years ago
I've seen Variegata di Bologna as a climber in central California, more tall than wide. I've also seen it as a climber in a book about roses, probably about 8-10 feet in both places.

Ingrid
roselovr_in_eh
16 years ago
Robert - If you're looking for another MIP type climbing Bourbon I would highly recommend Mme de Sevigne (mine's from Ashdown but I do not see it listed as available this season). Even though she's been cut back constantly she was over 12 feet tall at the end of her third year. I grow her trained to a pyramid trellis, on the left in this photo in Spring 07:

Good rebloom, excellent fragrance.

My experience with both Variegata di Bologna and Honorine de Brabant (which is essentially a once bloomer in my garden) is that they are better grown fanned out horizontally rather than more vertically - that way the spring flush is maximized because they will bloom all along the canes.

Louise Odier is one of the easiest roses to train - she reblooms, blooms on old and new wood, and can be grown either horizontally or vertically.

I grow 3 Coquette des Blanches, trained together on a wide tripod - I find it bushy rather than leggy so I'm not sure it would make a good climber.

Gregg and Phillip at Vintage believe Edith de Murat is really Mme Cornellison, which is a sport of Souv de la Malmaison, so petite by definition.

Good luck

George
rjlinva
Original Author
16 years ago
George,
Thanks for all your comments. These are extremely helpful. Do you see a difference in Madame de Sevigne and Madame Isaac Perriere? I got the feeling that consensus was they are one and the same. I have both MIP and MdS. I haven't seen a difference yet. robert

MIP, Louise Odier, Honorine de Brabant,et al.

Comments (6)

barbarag_happy

mendocino_rose

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rosefolly

ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

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MIP, Louise Odier, Honorine de Brabant,et al.

Comments (6)

barbarag_happy

mendocino_rose

Related Discussions

rosefolly

ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

roselovr_in_eh

rjlinvaOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

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rjlinva
Original Author