Golf course are sometimes designed with pure C33 sand, and permanent additives that retain some water like Turface et al. Someone will come along, perhaps, and express skepticism about them and say organic organic organic, but organic does break down, eventually. I am quite confident golf course and sports turf managers would not spend $10 of Ks or more per installation on such products if they didn't work. Maybe they also blend in a small amount of compost. Who knows. It's a specialized science to be sure.

Almost any option is not cheap if you have a substantial area to fix. I remember reading the story of what a disaster wood chips caused at the Weyhauser-hosted Rhododendron Species Garden. Became a quagmire. But I don't think the soil there was pure sand, and they probably used too much. So if I had to improve moisture retention of pure sand I'd probably start by tilling some wood chips into the surface, as the budget option. And remember to add N periodically.

This link talks about how much wood chip can be required: https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5375758/amending-straight-florida-sand-into-a-usable-gardening-soil

I'm for mulch and shade. Whenever I'm in my woods, the most productive areas I find, are partially (50%) shaded by larger forest trees. That's why I choose those areas when looking for seedlings/saplings. And when I dig these naturally propagated from seed trees, I have to scrape away a 3"-6" thick, moist mat of pine needles, leaves and other dead vegetation. It's no wonder things want to sprout in these areas, even during dry spells, there always seems to be some degree of moisture under those mats.

Welcome to my world! Have you considered replicating Lambeau Field?

I think the best advice came a long time ago from Mike of Seattle area. Build up the soil with compost as feasibly (strategically?) possible, and use high quality mulch to cool and buildup the soil. Oh, and an irrigation system...

Yes, let's not forget the irrigation. It would be a desert here, in comparison, without it. :-)

I lived 12 years on such soil. In one part I buried about 30 tons of wood chips (as part of filling a low area), and in the back part (300 plus feet away from the street) I mowed only once a year, in the process getting some large rooted wildflowers established spontaneously. And it made very little difference, so I just concentrated on the two vegetable gardens. One changed after two feet of OM were added, the other was started only 5 years before moving and needed water every second day.

No simple solutions, but the OM you need, you either bring it in or you grow it. Over one acre, you easily need 1000 tons before you can make a significant difference. The mechanism is that OM decays, becomes compost, and compost particles fill the large gaps between sand grains. and you have a huge volume of gaps.

Glib, I guess OM is synonymous with wood chips?

Did you have to add nitrogen to speed their breakdown?

OM stands generally for organic matter. 20 years ago wood chips were free and that is why I was using lots of them. I did add some N, now that you ask, but for the most part I just injected it with fungi I liked and buried it. Grass did struggle to start there, but within 3-4 years the filled area with wood chips was green, although I could not really compare directly with the sand, because the low area fill was both wood chips and excavated clay.

Degradable mulches are a great way to passively improve the soil below. Not just leaves or wood chips, but grass clippings, farm manure/barn cleanings (watch for persistent herbicides in both manure and grass), shredded general yard waste (from a municipal mulch site if you have one).

As for humic acid, it's the final product of the compost process after you add the compost to the soil and it further decomposes for a long time. Basically undigestible and therefore permanent soil organic matter. No need to buy boutique humic acid, just add compost or compostable mulches and let nature do it for you.

All, thanks for all the great suggestions. I'll probably start with checking with the village to see if they collect leaves. If I can get a trailer full I can mow them in.

In addtion or alternatively I may start adding 1" of compost around the trees. Then expand that addtion as I increase the mulch the circle.

The mulch I get today has high bark content as it inlcudes all the twigs and what not. It decomposes rather quickly.

I was hoping for more of a quick fix relatively speaking.

I need to find something like this locally...

http://www.omahaorganicslawncare.com/natural-lawn-products/granular-compost/

Quick fixes don't really exist for a large volume of soil unless you have heavy equipment and want to dig up the whole yard and mix mass quantities of compost into it all at once. Not very feasible for most people.

I do like your idea of laying compost around trees. I was about to ask how big your mulch circles are now - they should be out to the drip line if you want to hit the entire root system. But that may only be 3' diameter if you just planted them!

That granular compost looks great for spreading with a spreader of some kind, but I bet it's fairly expensive compared to bulk sifted compost. If you don't have a lawn to worry about you can spread it wherever you want as deep as you want with no worries.

I'd echo the comment about adding as much as you can, including wood chips, but other stuff too, even at the risk of having your plantings struggle at first. Quantity matters, and wood chips may be amongst the cheapest you can get (hopefully free).

Another key point: lignin in wood takes the longest to break down, so it's just going to be in a state where it won't wash out for a longer period of time (and hopefully support other organisms in soil longer). But whatever you can get: leaves, manure, etc. Keep adding when you can.

If you have the time and inclination, larger chunks of wood can also be buried. Possibly you could find out what kind of cover crops would grow in what you have.

For you "land of sand" folk... does including some mineral content (clay/soil) help?

"does including some mineral content (clay/soil) help?"

It sure does. I couldn't grow rhubarb on my old place until I brought in a couple 5 gallon pails of better soil from a nearby field. It was a clay/black dirt mix. Mixed that into the planting site and had good rhubarb for many years.

On the flip side, I brought some clay soil in to fill an old tractor tire and found out I couldn't grow anything in it. Just too tight and didn't drain. Then removed a portion of it and mixed in native sandy soil. I was by there the other day and the flowers are still really outstanding in that old tire.

Clay soil itself can be ordered like any other bulk material. Again, not cheap, but hypothetically you could order some and rototill it into certain areas. There are people out there who offer all sorts of services requiring a 3-point hitch, rear PTO and other component, if you don't have one. I actually have a cool Woods counter-rotating tiller I bought at my personal peak of 'having more money than I knew what to do with'. (long since passed!) Even on my little 23 HP Kubota it works very quickly and powerfully. But I hardly plan to use it much more, but keep it cause I figure, I wouldn't get nearly what I paid for it, and the price of a new one has surely gone way up vs. the peak of the recession when I bought it.

Every few years a 'miracle polymer' comes along, claiming to both add water retention to sand and drainage to clay. These go all the way back to ones promoted by Union Carbide, for farmers, in the 1950s. I can't even find the ones on the market about 10 years ago...based on something like 'polyelectrolytes' IIRC. One was made by a company in Kansas, perhaps, called something like "NuSoil Gold"??? It definitely had Gold in the name, and was made in Kansas! Very expensive - I considered buying it for my current garden when I started it. I probably discussed them here, in some thread, from that long ago. These aren't quite the same as poly acrylic 'water moist' crystals. They are, or were, sold in bulk quantities to be spread with heavy equipment. Unlike all of the various calcined clay, pumice or expanded shale products that continue to be available by the pallet at places like Lesco etc., I figure the seeming absence from the market means they never found a user base that thought they were effective, and didn't take off.

Oh yeah, On my old place, the nearest bulk clay soil was about 20 miles away, not cost prohibitive, but would've been spendy for a yard size project to have a few dozen 12 cu yd trucks to deliver, then spreading and incorporate, leveling then putting the lawn back in etc. Most people would probably just buy a place in a different location instead of going through all that. Back when I came there, I was lucky to pay the bills let alone have a major landscaping project. Good idea though. :-)

Omaha organics got back to me. $45 per 40 lb bag. He said they are the only ones in the US that he knows of that has this granular compost.

if anybody knows of a manufacturer or brand that is granular compost I sure would appreciate it

one silver lining with this type of soil...when it gets super dry it tends to soak up fast rains where as a clay soil that is dry water runs right off and will not be absorbed less it's sitting or pooling on top

Amending the soil with clay does improve moisture retention, but to do on a large scale is costly and backbreaking if you don’t have equipment. Clay is best used with an equal amount of stategy.

Aaaand.... is sand in SE WI the same cut as Florida sand

Is this mainly for use on a lawn? Don't know the specifics of this granulated compost but doubt it's that special.

I did bury some clay from the neighbor in my sandy vegetable garden. Years later you could dig out the chunks, still unmixed. Only biological activity mixes things.

First, organic matter is any once living plant material and can be wood chips, compost, shredded leaves, the plants you grow, but it is not polymers or other synthetic material of any kind.

How much organic matter is in that soil now? Perhaps these simple soil tests may be of some help.

1.Testing for organic
matter. Put about 1 cup soil (enough to fill the jar to 4 inches) in
a clear 1-quart jar, with a tight fitting lid. Fill that jar with water and
replace the lid, tightly. Shake the jar vigorously and then let it stand for 24
hours. Your soil will settle out according to soil particle size and weight.
For example, a good loam will have about 1-3/4 inch (about 45%) of sand on the
bottom. about 1 1) Soil test for organic material. From that soil sample put
enough of the rest to make a 4 inch level
inch (about 25%) of silt next, about 1 inch (25%) of clay above that, and about
1/4 inch (about 5%) of organic matter on the top.

2) Drainage. Dig a hole 1-foot square and 1 foot deep and fill that
with water. After that water drains away refill the hole with more water and
time how long it takes that to drain away. Anything less than 2 hours and your
soil drains’ too quickly and needs more organic matter to slow that drainage
down. Anything over 6 hours and the soil drains too slowly and needs lots of
organic matter to speed it up.

3) Tilth. Take a handful
of your slightly damp soil and squeeze it tightly. When the pressure is
released the soil should hold together in that clump, but when poked with a
finger that clump should fall apart.

4) Smell. What does your
soil smell like? A pleasant, rich earthy odor? Putrid, offensive, repugnant
odor? The more organic matter in your soil the more active the soil bacteria
will be and the nicer your soil will smell, to a point. Too much organic matter
can be bad as well.

5) Life. How many
earthworms per shovel full were there? 5 or more indicates a pretty healthy soil. Fewer than 5,
according to the Natural Resources Conservation Service, indicates a soil that
is not healthy.

Only biological activity mixes things.

or one of these!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LnxhwYolBc

Owners going to need a BIG mower. :-)

I don't have pure sand actually...its drains faster than pure sand. As to why don't know but it does because I have an area of close to pure sand with gravel that doesn't drain as quickly.

My land was farmland. After the fact I checked the soil type and its flagged as "not prime farm land" with excessive draining capabilities.

My overall question was for 1+ acre of established lawn and for the trees scattered throughout that aren't in beds. I might just top dress with compost as well in certain areas and just move on to other areas year over year. The labor and cost is the concern to do so hence maybe mulching in leaves.

Still going to hunt down the granular compost.

I'd rent (or buy, with the scale you are working at) a drum-type, tow-behind compost spreader, bring in bulk sifted compost by the truckload, and spread it with that. You can put down vast quantities over a large lawn in a hurry, and it will be so much cheaper than fancy granulated stuff that it will pay for the equipment. :-]

Do you have any examples of this equipment?

Of course I found your post from a few years back on this topic lol

[https://www.houzz.com/discussions/tow-behind-drum-compost-spreader-dsvw-vd~1629552[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/tow-behind-drum-compost-spreader-dsvw-vd~1629552)

"organic matter is any once living plant material and can be wood chips, compost, shredded leaves, the plants you grow, but it is not polymers or other synthetic material of any kind.".

Apologies for being pedantic, but there are lots of biological/organic polymers - including some of the most common components of plants like cellulose and lignin (polysaccharides).

"Apologies for being pedantic, but there are lots of biological/organic
polymers - including some of the most common components of plants like
cellulose and lignin (polysaccharides)."

including the components of compost! like humic and fulvic acids, which are small polymers of mixed composition with various phenol, catechol and sugar moieties. In fact the defunct (probably) agricultural chemicals I mentioned above were probably trying to synthetically reproduce the benefits of a humic acid etc., but with so many various "real" concentrated compost/humic acid products on the market these days, they have probably supplanted them. Although research continues to create "hybrids", apparently: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25078843 Increasing the water retention of poor soils is probably an important national priority of the Chinese. Or at least one would surmise that, based on reports of unprecedented dust storms and expanding desertification in parts of the country.

Well, yeah - in fact most of the building blocks of life are polymers - including DNA. I know what was meant but a polymer is just a large molecule made of repeating subunits.

One would HOPE the Chinese and everyone else are taking better care of their soil, but in many places the same mistakes are being made over and over. Either due to greed, lack of government resources or authority or political clout, or just poor people trying to survive. I have hope for the future, but based on past performance, the human species does not always do what is in its own best interests overall.

Hey tox, did you end up finding anything on that drum style tow behind compost spreader?

You can just Google "rotary compost spreader". There are both hand push models and tow-behind.

Here's a push model:

https://www.amazon.com/Peak-Seasons-Green-Compost-Spreader/dp/B00J31Y3VE

Northern Tool used to have a tow-behind but I can't find it on their website. Here are some others:

http://id3413.securedata.net/stableandarena/manurespreaders.htm

http://www.woodstockbowerfarm.com/spreaders.html

https://outdoorpowerequipment.com/2015/07/17/ecolawn-eco-50-compost-spreader/

These seem like manufacturers pages and there are no prices or how to order. But someone must sell them.

You might also contact local tool rental places and see if they have one for rent. Might be good to try before buying. I recall seeing them for hundreds or even $1000 for an 'estate' sized one. Or if you weld you could make one. That's what I always wanted to do, but I haven't learned the welding yet.

Also check YouTube for 'rotary compost spreader' and you'll see some demos of the offerings from MegaMesh and Elite Ground Products, plus a bunch of DIY.

First thing I do when I retire is going to be a basic welding class at the tech school.

Got it, thanks! I was searching drum style spreader and was only seeing the push behind.

First thing I do when I retire is sit down, enjoy a beverage while admiring the landscape....everyday all day!

I been going down a rabbit hole trying to find some locally for rent or purchase.

In the meantime I found this locally. Worth a shot or run?

https://www.ecologel.com/BIOPRO/resources/H3O_OC_label.pdf

Can't comment about that link, Will, but there is a product nearby and although it isn't compost, it is made of organics and granular. Milorganite could be used to help augment other organics you add. Have you started a compost system of your own yet?

tj

I used milorganite last year on the lawn but it requires a heavy application rate to have an impact. Takes 25 bags. I might go back to that and get a higher capacity spreader. One thing I like about this product is that it doesn't burn so you don't have to rely on getting the timing right with the rain.

A side note about wood chips and sawdust and how bad an effect they have on things growing. I had/have a depression in my yard where a tree used to be, with remains of the trunk cut down to just about ground level. I'd been meaning to level it out - more to make it less of a hazard for tripping - and had some plain sawdust around for some reason, quite fine, not composted at all. I dumped that in there - two to five inches worth depending - and added a bit of garden soil later when I had some (not much actual soil). Recently, only a few months later I was overseeding patchy bits of the lawn nearby, and tossed some grass seed overtop that spot. A week later, and the grass has sprouted there strongly and grown in pretty well. The spot still looks mostly like sawdust.

This area received little to no 'treatment' except for some extra water at first and some, ahem, human nitrogen contributions. Now I'm not going to claim this would make it suitable as a growing medium for vegetables or all plants, but it seems to me a different result from what one generally hears, about the fear that sawdust and woodchips will 'tie up' nitrogen and make it impossible for anything to grow there.

YMMV, and I"ll grant the conditions have been pretty good lately, warm but frequent rains, cool but not cold at night. Overall though I've had similar experiences with sawdust and fine wood chips, doesn't interfere with plants and seems to get integrated quickly, absorbs and releases moisture well. From some other experience, I find sawdust and similar mostly indistinguishable from soil - almost unidentifiable unless looking for it -within about a year (and that's with long cold winters). Most of the time I'm not doing thick layers, mind.

that is the way it works, armoured. brown materials temporarily absorb some N, then they release more than what they originally absorbed, because bacteria fix some extra N while eating the fungal decay products. so, long term, wood chips and saw dust add nitrogen to the soil.

@glib2, agree and thank you. I meant this just as a counterpoint to the frequently-repeated point about nitrogen tie-up. I am sure it's a real effect, but it seems to me it's often exaggerated.