One of the best substrates, IMO, is Turface. Not only does it drain quickly and is super aerated, it also retains moisture and helps prevent root desiccation.

The problem with your formulation was not that it drains so well, but that it has very little moisture retention. The MG mix is mainly peat, which once it turns dry is very difficult to re-wet so it is almost useless at that point. Gravel, grit, perlite don't hold onto water well at all.

Use Turface MVP in your mix, and you will likely have much improved results.

x

I'm sorry to read about your losses narcnh. Switching to a fast draining mix is always going to be a little adjusting.

I have to agree with X~ your mix has very little in it to retain mositire. You will be much happier with your mix if you use Turface in your mix.

JoJo

Narcnh, was there a reason they were repotted this time of the year? I thought for best results, they needed to be repotted in late spring, or whenever they're strongest and pushing new growth.

I also have all my succulents in a fast draining mix (Al's 1:1:1 Turface/bark/grit mix), and they all stayed outside in the summer in the intense Mid-Atlantic heat. I think they were hand-watered just once in the summer and just received whatever rain we had, which wasn't much during the heat. They all thrived.

MrLike2U, thanks for the advice. The Aloinopsis was a survivor of past winters and was one of the ones I repotted. So, it was used to the old soil mix and watering regimen. Very cool pic of yours. Never thought to try to raise mine up like that. Might try it with the replacement. In the past I did not need to use my water meter, since I could tell just by lifting a pot whether or not it was light. But, with all the gravel and grit added to the new mix the pots are heavy to begin with and don't change much, as they dry out. So, I've lost my touch and am slowly relearning. BTW, that meter is well over 40 years old, measures light, water and pH, has no batteries, and seems to have the potential to last forever. I used it as a kid, when I first started raising succulents (anyone remember the old Arcadian Gardens in the Garden State Plaza, Paramus, NJ? My mother would buy me a cactus for 50 cents, if I didn't raise a stink about being dragged shopping.)

X, Turface doesn't seem to be readily available around here. Read on another forum that folks have had good results substituting an oil absorbent - calcined diatomaceous earth - from NAPA or equivalent auto parts store. Do you (or anyone else) know if it can be substituted for Turface?

Ssmd, I actually repotted earlier in the year; just got around to posting now, since I had some time off for the holiday break. BTW, most are actively growing now. I leave my plants outside, until the temps drop into the upper 30's at night, usually into late September or early October. Then, when they come inside into the warmth, they all seem to explode with new growth. Same thing happens to my dwarf citrus.

Funny how trying to improve conditions for my plants has only made things more complicated. It's probably worth explaining that some of these plants have been around for a long time in the same, simple MG PS/perlite mix. I only thought to change it up for two reasons. First, as I mentioned, I had a problem keeping Lithops and Pleiospilos in that mix. Other mesembs, like Conophytums, Faucaria, Stomatium and Titanopsis did/do fine in it. Other plants, like Crassulas, Euphorbias and Haworthias also seemed to like it fine. Second, I have been getting into caudiciforms of late, and the up-front cost for those plants is a lot higher. AND, from all I have read they seem to be more like Lithops as far as sensitivity to overwatering. So, wanting to do the right thing for my plants, I changed up my mix. Most of my plants are in three or four inch clay pots. The larger caudiciforms and some older, larger specimen plants, obviously, are in larger pots. I try to keep things small and contained. I'm going for variety across a visual landscape, not a WHAM impact from a single plant. Since the plants get very root-bound, water is even more critical. Here are a few pics to illustrate.

This is one of several shelving arrangements I have. You can see my trusty water meter sitting on the second shelf.

Here is a shot of some of the lower light plants in a western window. These are all in the old mix and are survivors.

Here is a shot of my Titanopsis hugo-schlechteri and of one of my Frithia pulchra, both in the old mix in 4-inch pots and both situated right next to the Aloinopsis that bit the dust. It was about the same size as the Frithia.

And

Finally, here's a shot of one of my Conophytum elisae that was/is blooming and that lifted my spirits on a dark day. Hopefully, it will lift yours, too.

Thanks for all the great advice and support. Hope everyone has a healthy, happy and safe New Year!

Bill

p.s. Some might enjoy this tidbit. My oldest plant by far is an Aloe vera (A. barbadensis?) that I got from my mother and that has followed me around since college. It is an offshoot from my grandmother's plant, which my mother remembers as a child - and has now. So, that plant is at least 90, and I am guessing over 100. Mine is in plain garden soil/clay just as I got it, never changed, in the same, faded plastic pot, and just grows. Kind of cool to have that living piece of family history with me.

This post was edited by narcnh on Mon, Dec 31, 12 at 13:55

Narch, here are the Turface retailers in your area:

NORTHEAST NURSERY
Barrington
802-222-7341
www.northeastnursery.com

NORTHERN NURSERIES
Barrington
(603) 868-7172

JOHN DEERE LANDSCAPE
Serving multiple locations. Contact us for a location near you.
(800) 347-4272
www.johndeerelandscapes.com/home/locations.aspx

PRO LAWN SUPPLY
Worcester
(508) 754-0100

Thanks, ssmd. I did that look up, too, on their website. Barrington is about a two-hour drive each way, and not in a direction I usually travel. If it turns out that Turface is significantly better than alternatives, like calcined DE, I can look at distributors in New Jersey, since I am down there a lot for business, and there are several distributors. But, it won't for a while.

I'll pretend I didn't see the water meter but you do have have a very nice and neat organized racking system.
Leading me to believe that you wouldn't even think to do it and didn't have all three of them mesebs in the same 4 inch pot.

Compliments on getting your Conophytum elisae to flower. In our NE area for them results at best are, some can and some cant. Those who can really push my buttons with there proud little displays cause I'm with the ones who cant. Yeah I'll keep trying them too.

Another plant mentioned:
Euphorbia (I see you have one in the back) If in the new mix now after you re-potted IMO should do okay and continue growing as if the re potting never happened I keep mine on the dryer side this time of the year slightly moist when watering.

If it must be Napa oil dry then okay go ahead and use it. Not common on GW but some people still insist on NAPA oil or floor dry. One or both of them tend to hold water better but compacts harder than the other when it breaks down and both break down sooner depending on watering habits.
Turface Hands down beats em all allowing water to flow more evenly and faster with least amount of water being given It's the slowest in breaking down and compacts less when it does break down.

So in a nut shell: I agree whole heart you may want to avoid Worcester Mass but for Turface and other gritty stuff how do we do that now ? ..... Hmmmm I'm kind of hoping Mike M can chime in he knows of a place in Nashua N.H.( or that area ) It's some kind of farm feed and supply place they would have maybe everything you need for gritty mixes and other soils.

I have used expanded shale to improve drainage and to hold some moisture in the soil mix. Pumice is not available here . When your plants make their home in the fast draining mix their roots will become more developed and wander further from your plant. I grow my plants fairly hard. They get watered once a week in the summer and some once every two weeks. They live in the sun in Central Texas and we can have 70 days above 100 in a summer. True I do not grow in a heated house. All My Titanopsis is still outside in the fog tonight. I do keep them in part shade in the summer. Shade is a friend here.

The Napa product is called Floor Dry (part# 8822). I've used both Turface and Floor Dry for a few years now, and neither one of them has broken down or compacted in the slightest. My completely inorganic Turface/Floor Dry/granite mix could probably be used for many years without breaking down, but I try to repot most things within 2-3 years in order to prune roots or change pot size. I would not hesitate to try Floor Dry if Turface is difficult to find. It has been an excellent substitute for Turface IME, and I usually combine the two for the esthetic appeal of multiple colors. My current mix is half Turface/Floor Dry, half granite, but I've decided that it dries out too quickly even in winter, so I'm going to up the Turface/Floor Dry fraction next spring. Maybe 3:2 instead of 1:1. That's the great thing about these products. You can adjust water retention to whatever you like while maintaining perfect drainage.

-Chris

mrlike2u, thanks for the kind words. The plants are pretty organized of necessity, but everything behind me in the photo is chaos. I'd like to say that the stickers you see on some of the pots are ID labels. I'd like to say that. But, they are just the SKU stickers that I never bothered to remove. Drives my sister nuts. Have no idea why the Conophytum decided to bloom. Must like my growing style of 'benign neglect' is all I can say. I can see the Socialist Republic of Vermont from my house, being on the very western edge of NH, so even Nashua is close to a two hour drive for me, but I do go to Boston pretty regularly for work, so that could be an option. In the meantime, based on Chris' post, looks like I could use the Floor Dry in a pinch. Oh, and I did not mean that the plants ever shared pots. My bad for not explaining well. What I meant was that they were each in their own 4-inch pot, were located next to each other, and that the Aloinopsis was about the same size. So, environmentally, the only difference was the soil mix. Yes, that is an E. ambovombensis on the table (good eyes). It is in the old mix. I just checked my database, and I currently have 23 species of euphorbia, of which eight are in the new mix.

wantomara, it's good to know they can survive in the sun and heat with that fast-draining mix. Gives me hope for the summer (which seems a long way off right now).

Chris, thanks for the info about Floor Dry. Good to know that is a viable option.

Bill

Local to you grits and other stuff I've not been there my guess chances are better that they wont have MVP or All Sport turface.

Bill,

When you do find Turface (there is a bi-national locator tool on their website) make sure you get the MVP.

Thanks, everyone, for the great advice. Since I could not find a Turface retailer nearby, and since I did not want to wait (call me impatient), I went to the local NAPA store and bought 25 lbs. of Floor Dry #8822. Cost less than 10 bucks, which is cheaper than dirt. Literally, if you compare to bagged potting soil. Tried out the new mix on a few plants. It's around 50% Floor Dry, 20% gravel, 20% perlite, 10% potting soil. I removed the chicken grit, because mine is for chicks and is the smaller size. Didn't think it helped (but it is nice for rooting cuttings). Here's a pic of my Sarcocaulon herrei in the new mix. I actually liked the look of the mix so much (more natural, if I can say that about a potted plant) that I did not top dress with gravel. I know there are still more fines in there than some would recommend, but I think that, overall, it is a big step up from what I was using. Drains like a Shih Tzu through a goose.

Unless I run into issues, I'll probably wait to repot everyone else until they go outside in late spring. Or, if I get snowed in for a weekend and feel the need to get my hands into some dirt.

Thanks, again, for all the help.

Bill

Over all you did a good job on your mix and made a nice terra cotta presentation seeing gravel chips is a good choice
NIC PICS:
You can also consider turkey grits and dry stall as good alternatives. A more stable dry stall can easily replace perlite.
IMO 10% potting soil could easily be considered for use if sifted and worked in trough out your potting medium. If to split hairs then a preference of mine is fir fines and small sized orchard bark that could be 10% and even less for several in your pics.

Side comment: The Opuntia on the bottom shelf needs more than re-potting help if you plan to keep it.

I agree with Wes ^

Fir bark or Pine bark would be a more durable choice for an organic component.

As it stands, 80 percent of the ingredients in your mix retain moisture - that's a lot.
Yes, the drainage is fast...but remember that the mix will hold moisture very well, so watch
the watering closely this Winter. I'm sure Wes mentioned using wooden skewers to determine
when the lower layers of mix are actually drying out. If you notice that your pots are staying
wet for longer than a week, you might seriously consider adding a "wick" to the drainage holes
to encourage the deep moisture to exit the pot and, thus, save the lowest roots.

Josh

Maybe somebody else has made a suggestion regarding the use of a dowel.

Clearly stated I have no skills with the use of any tools that may subject roots to any damage.

Well I'll be danged, Wes, you're right. Not a mention of skewers in the whole Thread ;-)

Josh

Thanks, mrlike2u (Wes?). Not sure what you mean regarding the Opuntia - "The Opuntia on the bottom shelf needs more than re-potting help if you plan to keep it". I only have one, so I am assuming you mean this plant:

I've had it quite a while, and, other than being root-bound (and having a broken pad (upper right) from banging it, while moving it, duh), it seems quite healthy.

Thanks, Josh. At the risk of having folks involuntary shudder, when they read this, I have a soil tester/water meter with metal probe. While I have not needed it in the past (could tell just by hefting the pots), since changing the soil mix, I have had to use it to get a handle on the new weight profile of the pots as they dry out (the new ingredients add weight, and the delta from wet to dry is different). Am watching things very closely this winter.

Bill

Excellent, Bill.
A careful eye and I think things should be well.
The only issue with traditional moisture meters is that they measure electrical conductivity,
which requires some good contact between the mix and the probe. As one's mix becomes more gritty,
the macropores increase and the contact decreases. The ingredients themselves don't offer much
in the way of contact or exceptional moisture on the surface, and it is possible for traditional
meters to register "dry" when the mix is still holding a lot of moisture.

I don't have any ideological issue with moisture meters....just a practicality issue
when it comes to coarse and gritty mixes.

Josh

Funny you should say that, because I JUST ran into that issue. As I posted elsewhere, this meter is over 40 years old. I was checking a pot I had watered only yesterday, and it reported 'Dry', which surprised me. I wiggled it around a bit, and then the reading changed. Thought it was finally going flaky, but then tested it on my dwarf citrus trees, which have a more traditional/organic mix, and it was fine. One more thing to watch. Thanks!

Opuntia would need more favorable lighting (more direct if possible) looking to show more elongation in prior pic, not to bad in the new pic as the rounder pad shape is more easily noticed on the bottom pads... Thanks for showing

Ah. Gotcha. As I posted earlier, I leave my plants out for as long as possible, 1) because winters here are long, and 2) because they just do better outside - more sun, fresh air, etc. So, they get acclimated to temps down into the 30's. When I bring them in, just about everyone has a growth spurt, and some stay active all winter, regardless of whether they are summer or winter growers. This opuntia is a great example. Those new pads are since November. Would actually prefer, if it and a few others (like my columnar crassulas) stayed dormant, because of the etoliation. The same thing happens with my dwarf citrus trees. By Thanksgiving the house is filled with the smell of citrus blossoms (which, I have to admit, is pretty nice).

This year, because I have several new winter-growing caudiciforms, I set up a grow light (from my hydroponic garden). It's working so well that I have added two more to a couple of the racks. Even though they are in south-facing windows, the extra light really seems to help, at least for the plants on those shelves.

Thanks for looking out for my plants - much appreciated.

Bill