"often they're given by industry trade associations to those who write the biggest checks."

You forgot to start with "MOST"........................

Not a pro- Kids that are your children’s ages need supervision and have so much “stuff”. Not sure where “their” space is. The library? Studio? As a mom, I would be focusing on organization and using design to simplify meal prep and cleaning. I just built a rambler with 3 bedrooms down but my kids are in college. A downstairs family room is great but for older children. I would take all the feedback from these pros...

Is this a typo or is your island really 5' x 10' and is your DR only slightly larger at 6' x 12'? That's far too narrow for a DR. It will not be functional. Kitchen design guidelines recommend at least 44" aisles around a table so that people can walk behind seated diners.

You need to enlarge the DR to at least 10' 10" x 13' 4'. Actually, you'd
need a wider space than that because your plan shows seating along the
island's bottom end. A minimum of 60" is recommended for back to back
seating so your DR should be 12' 2' wide at a minimum. Or lose the island seating along
the end. There's no reason to skimp on aisle clearances; this isn't a NYC condo. It's a large, single family home.

Increasing the DR size would put it in scale with the very large kitchen and the other large living spaces. Right now, the DR isn't much wider than the hallway leading to the master bedroom or the entry hallway so it looks like an after thought, not a well designed, functional space. Your draftsperson should have pointed this out; an architect certainly would have.

How do you plan to use the library? Same question for the studio. Do you
really need 3 separate living spaces on the 1st floor? If not, consider moving the DR to the area designated for a
library. If that's not acceptable, you'll need to decrease the amount of space allotted to the kitchen to increase the DR to the minimum recommended amount of space.

Is that an extra freezer or fridge in the pantry? Or is that the main fridge? Your drawing is far too small to read details. The fridge is the most often opened appliance in a kitchen so it's not a good idea to bury it deep within a kitchen. Regardless, have you planned on adding HVAC and a cold air return to the pantry? Appliances generate heat; if you don't plan on cooling and ventilating the space, you're going to have heat build-up, which isn't a good thing for pantry goods.

Additionally, placing a fridge or freezer smack up against a wall isn't a good idea unless you spec a single door, left hand hinged fridge/freezer (hinge not on wall side). Otherwise, the wall will prevent the door from opening up wide enough to pull drawers out. Forget trying to open the door wide enough to remove bins for washing in the sink. That won't be possible.

Here's how wide I need to open my fridge to pull the drawers out. No way could I do this with a wall next to my fridge.

I also recommend adding a prep sink to your large island. Speaking of, how to you intend to use the cabinets below that face the seating overhang? You have a huge pantry; do you really need this storage?

You have oodles of counter on either side of the sink but limited counter on either side of the large range. That's going to look crowded and out of balance, IMO.

Here's an idea to mull over.

I moved the fridge to the sink wall with the (assumed) freezer next to it on the other side of the pantry door. The downside is that you'll need to have the pocket door open to access the fridge drawers. Or you could eliminate a pantry door and arrange the pantry so that it has more of a butler's pantry look - cabinets and counter along the top wall with open shelving for pantry goods out of sight from the kitchen.

Here is how that might look:

Arkles Bay Kitchen · More Info

Kitchen · More Info

Kitchen, Scullery, Pantry · More Info

Kitchen Range & Scullery · More Info

Going doorless would also eliminate the concern for heat build-up from the fridge/freezer in the pantry.

If you'd post a larger plan so that we can read dimensions and more
details, I could provide dimensions and appliance location suggestions to make your home function
well for you.

Please don't let set ideas get in the way of creating a functional home, one that will serve your family well for years to come.

lisa_a

I hope that photo comes in at a bit higher resolution. I love that you are being so helpful with some ideas.

We aren't set in all of our ideas and are happy to get your thoughts.

The LIBRARY will have a grand piano and will mostly serve as a room for playing piano or entertaining guests that need to come to a nice and neat room when the kitchen/great/dining room is a disaster (we have 4 kids).

Typically it will be open, but on occasion we will close off the doors.

As for the kitchen, my wife can't make up her mind what makes the most sense. Fridge/Freezer combo and double oven and 36 or 48" range OR Single Fridge with Fridge Freezer combo in pantry and 60" range, or some other combination of things.

The walls of the dining room are 6.5' x 12', but the actual space is more like 9.5' x 17'. OF course that is considering the walkways that go around the table.

Thanks again for your detailed thoughts and we will be sure to put HVAC in the pantry. We store a lot of things like Cake Stands, beverage containers, glass bottle collections, chips, cereal... we buy in bulk and like having the space. Would rather have more room in the pantry and less in the bedroom.

As for a prep sink, I know a lot of people like those, but we love the huge island with no divots or interferences... Just lay out the school project or quilt or science project and go to town.

My next door neighbor has two bedrooms in their walk-out basement. I cannot tell you the problems they have caused! It's not just with the teen going out without one knowing it, it's with their friends or a "special friend" coming in without the parents being aware. Neighbor (a pediatrician) has caught both her teenage sons with girlfriends down there all night (they slept through their alarm in the AM). Drugs were delivered as was liquor. And no, these are actually fairly "nice" boys, who are in a great school and make decent grades. I know their grandmother as well. But teens will be tempted - even very nice, well-supervised teens. The problem with children in the basement is they cannot be well-supervised.

I'm not a fan of MBR's on the first floor and children on another floor, be it the basement or a 2nd floor. When young, they often need a parent during the night. I don't want a child vomiting all the way up or down a staircase! I don't want to be running up or down one in the middle of the night if I hear them crying or calling for me. When they are teens, I want to know they have gone to bed and are in for the night. If I get up to go to the bathroom at 2AM, I want to know if their bed is empty or their light is still on.

The problem with below grade space is that it does not appraise at the same value as above grade space. In many areas of the country, bedrooms there wouldn’t “count”. Only bedrooms above grade can be counted.

Meaning that you have an unfinancible house. Because no one will loan 1.2M for a one bedroom house. They won’t loan you $50K to build that. No loan, period. That is an all cash build situation.

Bedrooms also must have egress windows. Meaning enough of the basement has to be above ground here to get that many bedrooms into it that it would make far more sense to build the bedrooms in a second floor and let the basement be the unfinished semi creepy zone for utilities, laundry, and litter boxes. It will also kinda look like a 70’s split level, with half of the basement above ground. Which pushes the first floor up, instead of at grade.

This home is being designed by a draftsman with over 20+ years experience in mountain west. Multiple homes having been feature in the mountain west premier home show. That being said, we had specific requirements and requests we asked him to fulfill, so he was constrained by our vision.

Regardless of how /who reached this point, this plan's a dud.

We wanted the dining room to be a part of the kitchen and great room.

That goal is fine, but -- as shown -- the dining room lacks space, definition, and natural light. It is the second biggest problem in the plan.

the library will have a piano and we want a solution that is not glass, because we'd like to have true seperation, but the ability to have both rooms open together when we are doing a Christmas sing-along or somethi

With the information that this is a music room, I agree that glass isn't ideal.

Your pathway from the garage to pantry missed the doorway shortcut opposite the laundry door. We also considered being able to access the pantry from the main hallway.

No, I didn't see the shortcut door, and it looks like a wall and a cabinet on your plan ... regardless, it's barely a shortcut. Cutting a door from the garage entry hall would be better ... but still not ideal /short.

The place to serve food is the 5x10 island.

Yes, the island's a great place to serve food ... but not an ideal place for the family to sit while eating.

The sink is put there because despite a "working triangle" or whatever, my wife wants it overlooking the windows out back and is married to the idea of that look.

Yes, sinks and windows do go together ... but if she wants the sink under that window, you need to design the kitchen around that detail. As this kitchen is designed, you have a fairly large kitchen with a small and disfunctional work triangle crammed into the back portion.

That chipmunk issue sounds gross and sad.

But -- sadly -- not uncommon, which is one reason why it's wise to keep your dryer vent short ... and that means putting the dryer on an exterior wall.

That master bathroom is stressing out my MIL and wife.

It's stressing them out because it's a bowling alley with only one window. With those constraints, it isn't going to become something elegant and gracious.

Not sure about your concern for "one side" of kitchen sink. There are two sides and it's a 17 foot run of counter space with a sink in the middle

Size doesn't make a good kitchen. I have a very large kitchen, and it's poorly laid out.

Is that an extra freezer or fridge in the pantry?

Read up on ventilation of pantries ... when a fridge or freezer is place IN a pantry, ventilation is an absolute must. This can be accomplished in several ways -- all of them easy and cheap -- but overlook this detail at your peril.

Going doorless would also eliminate the concern for heat build-up from the fridge/freezer in the pantry.

I like the idea of a long, narrow walk-through pantry.

Just lay out the school project or quilt or science project and go to town.

Then what's the studio for?

And no, these are actually fairly "nice" boys, who are in a great school and make decent grades ... But teens will be tempted - even very nice, well-supervised teens.

As a high school teacher, I'll say this: If you ever say, "My kids will not ___ because ____," you're lying to yourself. Fill it in with anything you please: My kids will not try drugs because I've talked to them about how dangerous they are. My kids will not sneak out because they're good kids -- kids who are involved in church youth group and community service. My kids will not have boyfriends /girlfriends sneak into the house because we're a close family and we take them to church. My kids will not drink because they saw what it did to their grandfather, and we've talked about it together.

Teens are tempted. Period. They're tempted over and over and over -- from this source and that source and the other source -- and it's a rare kid who isn't going to give in to something at some point. The internet has removed a good bit of innocence that used to exist -- kids are so much more worldly and knowledgeable than they were just a few years ago, and that's not a good thing at all.

Protect your kids from themselves.

The best kitchen I ever had was one I could walk all the way through from mud room to dining room.

Get the architect. Regional Magazines are always looking for a "feature". You can buy a feature. Doesn't imply excellence every time.

@sophie wheeler,
"...no one will loan 1.2M for a one bedroom house. They won’t loan you $50K
to build that. No loan, period. That is an all cash build situation."

I'm going off on a tangent here, but our credit union financed our one bedroom house build without a problem.

Different regions, different institutions, different policies. One size does not fit all.

Only in NYC or Silicon Valley, and with a private credit union would a 1.2 mill one bedroom get bank approval , and an 800 credit score and 50% down might be part of the deal lol

This plan is not good in large part. Please have an Architect review.

Anyone who thinks a "designer" or "CAD operator" who has been working for 20 years is comparable to an architect who has been working for 20 years, simply doesn't know what they don't know...

If the draftsman is held in such high regard, what did you do to piss him off to come up with such a design? ("piss him off" is an architectural term)

Sometimes years of experience in an area means they have been making mistakes for a very long time, and being in a "premier home show" is usually based on the builder's application to get into the show not the designer.

Don't be surprised if the architect that reviews the draftsman's design recommends you start over.

You are focusing on details but the plan is awful. You can't focus on details if you don't have a plan that has no defining axis and lacks light and flow

A draftsman in 99% of the cases is NOT someone with design skill. It's more a situation where they will regurgitate what you tell them you want and it's obvious that is your designer.

A talented architect will give you what you didn't know you wanted and needed.

Someone with design skill will design all floors at the same time, along with the exterior and how the house is sited on the land. A house is not designed one floor at a time

Stop wasting your time and find a talented archiect

Love all the feedback, especially the detailed feedback. We may just scrap it all and go with another architect. Bu we might go ahead with what we have poured years of thought and planning into and then post it here for y'all to see in the end. Either way sounds fun. I sincerely appreciate the specific criticisms. It is so interesting that many of the things being criticized are how we currently live, how we grew up, or how it's always been done in this section of the country. I kind of want to put up our current house plan and see the response as to our home we currently live in which has a long walk to the pantry, kids on a separate level, interior laundry room, big open connected dining/great/kitchen, master with windows on only one side, bowling alley style bathroom. I mean... it's the home we have lived in and loved for the last 7 years. Goes to show how personal taste is.

That being said, I think 99.999999% of you feel like this is a terrible plan, so all indicators point towards us being the ones that are way wrong!

I look at the plan and I am so completely satisfied with it. I mean, I look at a bunch of your profiles and see some of the before and afters and I like the befores more than the afters. It may be a generational thing, it may be a location thing, it may be a case of I have terrible taste and design sensibilities... but, yeah. By all means, keep bringing the detailed criticism. And, hey... it's an internet forum, so bring on all the whatever you want!

Best wishes!

This home is being designed by a draftsman with over 20+ years experience in mountain west.

Oh dear.

I will just say that there's a huge amount of invaluable, free advice to be had in this forum for those who are in fact seeking valid criticism rather than validation. My husband and I just finished building a house, and we made good use of so many GardenWeb forums, including this one, reading through the archives, asking questions, reading recommended books and websites, etc. For us it was a years-long process, several years to work on plans and then several years to build the house ourselves.

Most of the folks who post here esp the regulars, whether they're dedicated professionals or talented amateurs, do so because they want prospective homeowners and their families to have the best possible house they can have -- the most pleasant, affordable, efficient, personalized, etc. Not because they have an agenda or an axe to grind or enjoy shooting down perfectly good plans.

As an aside, I'd start hanging out in the Kitchen forum and reading through the archives. A second sink would be very helpful when you have a larger than usual range and four kids, because you can then have a dedicated clean-up zone as well as a dedicated prep zone. One of things that makes me happiest about my new kitchen is that I can be cooking (and cleaning as I go), but if any of my three kids (between ages 17-21) want to wash a piece of fruit or fix a quick snack they can be a completely different area of the kitchen, which isn't overly large, out of my way.

I live in and love a 3 bedroom 1.5 bath house that works well for my family. That doesn't mean that if building, I wouldn't solve the problems my house has - lack of bathroom space, eat-in kitchen that is tight, headroom over the steps that is too low, entry door that opens into the living room, etc. It's fine and good to make due with your surroundings when you bought them that way. But, when building, you have the chance to make things the best they can possibly be. Most of the time that means changing things from the status quo. Yes, you're living just fine with a bowling room bathroom, but now you can change that so you can relax more in that space. Yes, you are surviving while walking quite a distance to your pantry, but now you can design a kitchen/pantry space that flows well for your family. Now is the time to improve on everything you've become accustomed to in order to get what is truly ideal.

A newly married bride was preparing the first holiday ham in her kitchen. Hubby was stringing beans, and asked why she cut the end of the ham off as part of her prep to cooking? Maybe to season his beans?

The bride said that is how we do it in our family, but sure, you can have the tip for the beans if you want. She then got a bit curious, as her family didn’t use the ham to season beans. They gave it to the dog as his treat.

So, she called her mother and asked her why she had taught her to cut off the end of the ham and give it to the dog. Mama replied that Gramma had taught her that when she was a little girl, and she’d always done it that way.

So the bride called up Gramma and asked her about the family ham recipe. Gramma told her grandaughter that the reason the tip of the ham went to the dog, is the first time she tried to cook ham, the dog stole it off the counter, and if was just easier to keep him occupied with the treat than it was to listen to him whine.

Then the bride asked about what cutting off the tip of the ham did for the ham? Does it give it an extra route to be flavored with the cloves and pineapple? Why does the tip of the ham get cut in our family recipe?

“Because my first apartment had a tiny oven, and it wouldn’t fit in there unless I cut off the tip of the ham. Since then, it just became a habit. Just the way we have always done things.”

People are adaptable beings. They will tie themselves into pretzels In response to a bad design forcing them to. They get so used to bad design that they don’t understand that a good design can make their life easier and better.

Let a modern cook show you how to make a ham without the tip of it cut off.

Where in the world will you all eat? The island won't cut it and neither will that cramped space you have. You mention entertaining and having 4 kids....not sure where all this will happen, unless you set up folding tables in the library....

I also agree that it seems you do not really want advice, just validation. If you like this plan so much, be confident and go forth and build.

Thanks for posting a larger version of your plan.

The walls of the dining room are 6.5' x 12', but the actual space is
more like 9.5' x 17'. OF course that is considering the walkways that go
around the table.

9.5' is still shy of the recommended width for adequate walkways around your table, especially since this will be a main path from garage, master bedroom and likely the basement stairs to the kitchen.

Here's a more detailed plan of what I suggested above. I worked MOL within your current lay-out with only a minor structural changes. Aisles are marked counter to counter, using standard 1 1/2" counter overhang over 24" deep cabinets.

I removed the door to the pantry and added drawer bases, counter and upper cabs, and pull-out pantry cabs in the pantry area visible from the kitchen. That gives you a pleasant view from the kitchen, counter space for you to set down grocery bags to unload, and lots of pantry storage.

I added two uppers on either side of the long span of windows for glassware, mugs, etc. Dishes will be stored in drawers to the left of the DW, which is now to the left of the sink, out of the way of the meal prep path.

I added a trash pull-out at the end of the island so that you can also access it from the clean-up sink area. I added a prep sink to the island. IMO, your very large kitchen and its current set-up would really benefit from a prep sink. It will work so much better for multiple cooks and for entertaining. And you'll still have a very large island (more like a continent, lol) to lay out quilt and kit projects.

I shifted the island towards the clean-up sink counter to gain space for the DR.

I reduced the width of the range run (assumed range is 60"). btw, you're going to need a huge hood with major CFMs to vent that range. You're also going to need MUA (make up air). Those needs will add significantly to the kitchen's cost.

Your DR space is still 17' long but at 148" wide, it can now accommodate your table and still allow adequate aisles on all sides of the table and between table and island seating.

The only structural change I made - other than removing the pantry door - was to shift the pocket door between the back hallway and the kitchen towards the kitchen, adjusting the width of the linen closet to accommodate that change.

A negative aspect of the above plan is that the fridge and freezer are still buried deep in the kitchen. The path to them from the DR and from the stairs is past the range. I'm not crazy about that. I didn't draw out another potential plan that would address that. That involves moving the fridge/freezer to the range wall, the range to the window wall (splitting and shifting windows to each side of the range, and the main sink to the island, which would be rotated 90 from its current position. That set-up would give you room to add a breakfast/beverage bar to the bottom wall of the DR area.

Are you planning for a linen closet downstairs, too? If not, you should. I'd find it a damned nuisance to have all the spare sheets and towels stored upstairs away from the kids' bedrooms and bathroom.

As pointed out above, there are a number of issues with your plan as is. For example, your only coat closet seems small for a family of 6 in the Mountain West region.

Please consult an architect *and* a kitchen/bath designer. Do not rely on an architect to design the kitchen and bathrooms or rely on a KBD to design your home. These are two highly specialized fields. You need experts in both. They will help you achieve a functional plan that suits your needs and wants. This is not an area to skimp on because it's the foundation for everything else. It will identify and solve problems before the build, which means fewer headaches and costly build delays and remedies for you.

One more thing. If you spec exterior French doors to the music room/library, you won't have to give up light and views between that room and the FR while meeting your sound deadening requirement.

My brother and SIL did this between their DR and game room. The kids could be in there playing music and pool and we'd barely hear them in the DR.

You should also consider methods to reduce sound transmission through the walls, either with off-set stud walls, specialized insulation and/or drywall along with other solutions.

lisa_a

You are amazing. My wife is just blown away that someone can be so considerate to take the plans we have and put some thought into what might make them better. Unreal. Thank you a million times over.

We have never used a real dining room in any of our homes, although our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd one we designed via a production builder have all had a "dining room". We made them into a computer room, then a playroom, and in our current home it is our piano room. I love that you moved the island a little bit further away in order to free up a bit more space for the dining room. The move of the fridge/freezer into pantry area, thus giving a lot more room in the dining was brilliant.

Thanks for all the information on Frigidaire's units. I think that is the direction we will go. My parents have a fridge/freezer combo unit and they've had some weird issues, but overall have been satisfied.

I like losing the door to the pantry, and we are still going back and forth on that. There is something nice, my wife and MIL agree, about having a physical barrier to food. I like the idea of all open and connected. We'll see.

Uppers could be really great, even perhaps having an appliance garage in the bottom of them for the toaster/bosch/blend-tec etc...

The 60" range is next up to decide what brand to go with, we've read so many different reviews or different manufacturers.

I think we are gonna listen to the masses and open up the main hallway directly into the pantry. Losing a little bit of wall is worth it to have that direct access.

I'm intrigued about your other plan of rotating and moving fridges, but my wife just LOVES the look here:

Yes, there will be a linen closet downstairs. The downstairs will have the same footprint as the upstairs with 9' ceilings and plenty of windows. I guess "basement" is a strange thing to call it for some people because it seems their idea of a basement and our plan for a basement are very different.

Yes, we both grew up in the mountain west. The "coat closet" up front is for 3 or 4 jackets of visiting guests. The Laundry/Mudroom as well as nook in garage is where the heavy lifting will go on for jackets/boots/gloves/helmets/backpacks etcetera.

Your advice was lovely and a breath of fresh air. Thank you for taking the time to share some of your thoughts.

At this point, I wish I'd given some more context before posting the floorplan and just saying, "everyone, have at it!" It was a big question for me to ask and hard for people to feel like they could help or provide useful critic when we are so locked into and decided on so many items in the home. Again, THANK YOU lisa_a!

You're welcome!

I like the addition of an entry to the pantry. That will give kids coming up from downstairs a shorter path to the fridge, pantry goods and MW drawer without going through the cooking zone.

Three tweaks:

1) Move the DW to the left side of the sink and store dishes, glassware and silverware to the left of the DW. Get it out of a potential prep area between sink and range and out of the MW prep area.

2) Move the fridge/freezer pair closer to the sink. You need more room between fridge and adjacent cabinets than shown in the above plan in order to swing the fridge door wide enough to pull out fridge drawers. Here's an image of a French door fridge to show you what I mean.

3) Add some counter to the pantry, as I had shown in my plan so that you can walk in with groceries, set them down on the counter in the pantry and unload on shelves or in the fridge/freezer. Without pantry counter, you'll have to go farther and then backtrack to put items away. Make your life simpler, not harder.

How deep are the cabs on each side of the pantry door next to the MBR? 12" is a good depth for pantry goods unless you opt for ROTs (Roll out Trays) or slide out mechanisms in 24" cabinets. Anything deeper than 12" makes it harder to access items behind what's in the front.

I would stick with my recommended 24" deep cabs on one side and 12" on the other so that you maintain a decent aisle through the pantry. 12" deep cabs on each side leave a lot of wasted space between cabs and 24" deep cabs on each side leave you with only a 36 1/2" aisle (subtracted 3/4" for door thickness, not included depth of door hardware). I guess that's a 4th tweak.

I strongly urge you to add a prep sink. As your kids grow, they are going to want to - or be asked to - help in the kitchen more. A 2nd sink will make your very large kitchen function better for multiple cooks. It would also serve as a water source for art and science projects on the island.

Here are some inspiration pics to give you design ideas for your pantry.

Southwood Drive · More Info

Colorful and Cheery · More Info

Mulberry Lane Residence · More Info

Pantry · More Info

Houston Home Butler Room · More Info

Meriam Hill House · More Info

Mountain Love in Martis Camp · More Info

Or you could just keep a small step stool handy.

Bearspaw {Burma} · More Info

I feel sorry for people like yourself who are only looking for validation that what they did is wonderful if only they change the way a door is situated or make a room a little bit larger or smaller. People like yourself are so invested in their own design, they are unwilling to see the truth.

Lisas comments are valid, but only if the rest of the house were well laid out and workable. Unfortunately, it's not. I wish you all the best with your build.

I will echo cp, and also add that one of my main concerns is the new fridge/freezer placement at the entrance to the pantry area which will result in a bottleneck especially as the majority of the house residents get older.

Another is that with an all-fridge and all-freezer in that space, and now the plan to open up the main hallway directly into the pantry, it will be vital to account for all the storage space needed, doing a complete inventory of what you already have to store, and anything new you plan to get. Good luck going forward.

Reiterating what I wrote above: "Please consult an architect *and* a kitchen/bath designer. Do not rely on an architect to design the kitchen and bathrooms or rely on a KBD to design your home. These are two highly specialized fields. You need experts in both. They will help you achieve a functional plan that suits your needs and wants. This is not an area to skimp on because it's the foundation for everything else. It will identify and solve problems
before the build, which means fewer headaches and costly build delays and remedies for you."

My suggestions are merely a jumping off point, not intended to be used as a final plan. I'm an amateur; a keen, TKO (Totally Kitchen Obsessed) amateur, but still only an amateur. Hiring an architect and a kitchen and bath designer would be a wise investment in your future home.

beckysharp: "...one of my main concerns is the new fridge/freezer placement at the
entrance to the pantry area which will result in a bottleneck especially as the majority of the house residents get older."

I spec'd a 48" aisle in front of the fridge/freezer, which is the recommended aisle width for a 2 cook kitchen. Are you suggesting a wider aisle? Or are you suggesting that they should be off somewhere on their own? I'm curious to know how you'd resolve your concern given the current plan's lay-out.

Aaron A, just for grins and giggles, I drew up my idea for reorienting the island towards the windows. It's not as detailed out as the above plan but that can be done at any time.

The range and hood situated between the windows would be very dramatic. Here are some pics to show you how that might look.

I found 2 kitchen with lay-outs very similar to what I'm suggesting:

Lake Residence · More Info

Oyster Bay Cove, NY - BR1302 · More Info

More pics with ranges between windows.

Light Farm-Kitchen · More Info

Stamford Renovation · More Info

(Imagine this kitchen without the vaulted ceiling)

Rufty Homes - Kitchen · More Info

The Woodshop of Avon · More Info

I turned the pantry into a scullery/butler's pantry/pantry that can be accessed from the kitchen or from the DR via the hallway. This puts dirty dish mess out of view.

If the linen closet outside the MBR is for MBR linens, consider adding linen storage in the MBR closet or bathroom and turning this area into additional cabs and counter. See photos I posted previously for ideas how this might look.

Moving the range to the window wall and turning the island 90 degrees means that both cook and company need only look up to take advantage of your views. Only the 2 seats facing the fridge/freezer wall are looking at a wall. Everyone else gets a window view.

Splitting the freezer/fridge columns reduces the impact of their mass while keeping them near the prep zone, counter and table seating as well as the great room, library and other areas of your home. I drew the plan assuming there would be cabs and counter between the 2 columns but you could also create a "wall of tall" here and add pull-out pantries, too.

The DR table and the island can be used for craft projects - 4 kids, you're going to need multiple surfaces - and you have the room to expand the table to seat more people. That will make it easier for you to host a very large gathering; you'll have plenty of places for people to sit.

Finally, the cabs near the table can be used as you see fit, including a beverage bar, a breakfast bar and/or command center. The latter is where you'll store important papers, bills, schedules, charging stations, etc.

Here's the same plan showing zones.

Consider an ice maker in the proper kitchen and the freezer back in scullery. I hardly go into my freezer more than once and most things are put out to thaw, not immediately prep. That might leave a nice wine/coffee/beverage station near the dining area.

Are you suggesting a wider aisle? Or are you suggesting that they should be off somewhere on their own? I'm curious to know how you'd resolve your concern given the current plan's lay-out.

I'd suggest a different placement with a different kitchen layout (one that would likely not include more than a 48" wide range), but for me discussing a different kitchen layout without discussing a different whole-house layout is pretty much putting the cart before the house. Er, horse. And from most of the comments above, I gather I'm not alone.

I also find it hard to consider any kitchen layout without knowing more about a family's cooking - eating - dining needs and wants (esp if they need/want a 60" range). I always think the best way to start planning a kitchen is the good old Sweeby Test and buehl's Kitchen forum FAQ. I'm not sure what sort of homework Aaron and his wife have done yet, for the kitchen or the entire house plan, and all I have to go by is Aaron's posts in this thread.

"...discussing a different kitchen layout without discussing a different
whole-house layout is pretty much putting the cart before the house. Er,
horse."

Agreed (and funny!). However, despite many of us posting what we see as shortcomings with this plan, Aaron and his wife seem not just satisfied with it but happy with it. Given that, I opted to show them how to create a more functional kitchen than what they started with.

The level of build deserves no less than an architect and experience KD

Well...the OP posted that they were looking for opinions, and would "love to hear them".

Love all the opinions I’ve got in here. Some of the links provided are awesome. Lisa has given great feedback. I like the specific feedback.

The big picture, “this is terrible” and “what have you done to anger the designer” are funny, but not helpful.

I like the story about the ham too. And I agree. I suppose it’s really hard to give specific critique when the overall design is unacceptable to you, but if you have any specific problems with the plan, keep sharing. For example someone said there is a major separation between left and right side and I look at that as a positive. Someone said the run for the dryer vent is way long and now you’ve got me wondering what we can do to solve that potential issue. I’m glad someone said to use the same type of doors in the piano room, we’re gonna modify that. The comments about the long path to the pantry have got us to open up the main hallway. We also weren’t happy with how small dining area was, so love that Lisa presented ideas on how to give us more room.

I like the idea of function first for the kitchen, but there is a specific look my wife wants on the kitchen too. We’ve been trying to merge the form and function.

If anyone wants to keep chiming in on problems with the design, I’d like to know because I’d rather go in with my eyes wide open to the potential problems than move in and think that we made some terrible mistakes.

Every home is going to have constraints, we’d love to have a side load garage, and all the home on one level. We’d also like a yard big enough to play and have a garden, but it’s a small narrow lot and we’ll have a basement that acts as a regular living area for this part of the country.

I love the spaces we have in this home, and I love the flow. I think someone said, you don’t know what you don’t know and I’ve loved hearing about all the stuff we don’t know. Many of you have given us a lot to think about. We appreciate all your specific advice.

Is start over with a different designer (architect preferably) not specific enough?

So, I was skimming through your ideabooks and I didn't see any that illustrated your wife's desires, just Aaron's ideabooks. If you could show us what she's looking for in a kitchen, more input might evolve.

beckysharp thanks for the thoughtful reply. I agree, everyone on here is looking out for each other. That's super considerate. I hate that I came across intemperate. I'll read and reread these comments. I'm all for better. Hopefully my stubbornness will yield to a plan that is better than I can imagine!

Mark Bischak, Architect ha! you could not be more specific. point taken!!

decoenthusiaste as you can probably tell, i'm not a frequent poster, contributer, or participant here. I think most of the commenters here are sick of this thread so maybe after a little time I'll get some more ideas and there can be a new constructive thread. Thanks for digging in.

" you could not be more specific. point taken!!"

Cool, I can't wait to see what your architect comes up with; although with the right architect you will not be asking for review, but living happily ever after.

If I were home right now, I'd show you with photoshop mock ups why your house isn't working, but right now I only have an IPad so can't show you.

When folks have explained what was wrong overall, instead of listening to the comments about it being wrong overall, you picked the one comment where they suggest fixing something minor instead of understanding that fixing something minor won't fix the major problems

Cool, I’d love to see mock ups!

I think in my attempt to respond, I came off as a jerk! Not my intent at all, sorry for my condescension. I want the commenters, to know why we have it designed the way it is. Yea—- the minor things are minor and I was feeling super good about the major things. This thread has me re-thinking all of those major things.

Thanks for sharing! And sorry for not understanding the major problems! Very cool of you and everyone to be so patient throughout this thread. Thanks!!

I won't be able to get to them until after July 5th. Please send me a message then to remind me

I advise you find someone else, regardless of the historical talent of this designer, this is not a good design, and even if this is what you asked for, it shouldn't have been done unless you beat him into submission.

I think your best bet is finding an architect that you connect with and whose philosophy you agree with. There are many talented designers out there who are not architects, but honestly, I don't think many consumers can identify them. I do, however, think that the connection is a lot more important than the title, so it is about finding the right person to design your home.

---------------

I don't know about awards in home design, however, I restore old houses and I constantly have photo shoots for features in newspapers and magazines. I submit the house with a small (mostly B.S. story) of why the house "needed" the remodel or "spoke to me." The reality is that I remodeled the house for a hobby and a tidy profit and the magazine/newspaper feature is simply a tool for me to increase resale. I suspect that all the "tours of homes," are much the same thing.

----------------

Meaning that you have an unfinancible house. Because no one will loan 1.2M for a one bedroom house.

Just because below grade square footage appraises for less than above grade, doesn't mean that bedrooms in daylight basements can't be counted as bedrooms. A bedroom that meets all the legal requirements for a bedroom is a bedroom, and you are not going to find a bank that says it isn't, in fact, you are never going to find a bank who cares. Banks don't care if it is one bedroom or twenty-one bedrooms, appraisers will, for a bank if it appraises, it appraises.

In the end, it will probably appraise for less (depending on your locale) but it also costs less to build. Figuring out the net effect of a finished basement on the cost - appraisal equation is something that is going to have to be done by an appraiser in your specific area.

@Aaron A, I'm glad you have decided to open your mind to other possibilities. It is difficult to imagine something different from your normal way of doing things if you have never experienced nor been in a home designed by an architect for the family that lives there for the way that family lives. You can have that too.

Do take the time to read the area here on houzz about working with architects. There are many short ideabooks in the story section that will give you some insight into the process so you don't go in with a fixed idea of the floorplan you think you want for your new home. The most difficult thing to do will be to open your mind to a new way of living. Here are a couple of ideabooks to get you started.

https://www.houzz.com/magazine/architects-toolbox-6-drawings-on-the-way-to-a-dream-home-stsetivw-vs~13648036

https://www.houzz.com/magazine/how-to-work-with-an-architect-stsetivw-vs~3182504

https://www.houzz.com/magazine/10-things-architects-want-you-to-know-about-what-they-do-stsetivw-vs~20376965

"lisa was very kind and diligent to rework the kitchen, but I found her
brief -- creating "a more functional kitchen than what they started
with" -- disheartening."

In my defense, I also stated multiple times that the OP and his wife would be wise to hire an architect and a kitchen and bath designer because their expertise would be priceless in this process. I'm glad to read that Aaron is considering going this direction.

Over the years (more than a decade on the kitchen forum), I've also seen many instances when an OP stubbornly refused to listen to advice - it was all or nothing from all sides - and left the forum no better off than when they first posted. I find that disheartening. IMO, some improvement is better than no improvement at all. (And frankly, I've seen far worse first draft home plans that this one.)

Aaron A, do not rush this process. Consult experts, ask questions here and gather together the collective wisdom and experiences, do your homework and carefully weigh your options. An open mind is a valuable asset. The process of considering all possibilities, even the crazy ones, means that you leave no stone unturned, which minimizes your chances of "wish I hadda..." regrets.

I'm late to this thread, but if I could have liked beckysharp's comment more than once, I would have. She pretty much summed it up.

If the end result of all this is that the OP comes to the conclusion that a real architect should be involved, then we have done our job.

All I see here: More of the same, more of the same. It's not about having a dining room vs. not having a dining room (or whatever other room) ... it's about your eating space -- no matter what you call it -- being appropriately sized /proportional to the house and positioned nicely for good circulation.

Serious suggestion: Run this plan through a plan that'll allow you to "walk through" this house -- they're cheap and easy to operate, and you'll see the problems other people are pointing out. I'd knock it out for you, if I could read the dimensions on the plan.