My face is green with envy. Starting a rose garden in Melbourne, a rose growers dream. All of the roses you have selected are top notch ones so you should have no problems with them. But soil and climatic conditions will play a part. I am assuming that the roses will be budded on multiflora and if they are, then Sunny Sky will literally hit the sky. Mine in the PNW is 7 feet. Dark Desire , if this rose is happy, it will act like a rocket both in height and width. Another 7 foot one in warmer climates. Mr. Lincoln is a beautiful rose but in my opinion has had his day and is prone to disease. Mr. Lincoln is a rich red but Dark Desire is on the plummy side of red. Pierre will look beautiful on a fence. Although this rose tends to grow upright, you get a lot more blooms when laid along a fence. You may have to tie him, but you will be rewarded with loads of flowers. I will now go and see if I can wash the green off my face. Have fun.

What a helpful reply, thank you so much. An excellent point about Mr Lincoln, I shall scratch him off the list. I may replace him with Grande Amore - a true red with much superior disease resistance. I've strung wire along my fence to which I shall tie Pierre - I hope he rewards me with many blooms like you mention. Your roses sound glorious: 7ft, wow! I hope I can come close to that sort of rose health. Thanks again, really.

Perfume Delight is another bright pink with a very good fragrance.

Great tips fragrancenutter. Mr Lincoln is officially 100% off the short list!

Another suggestion I received was 'Grande Amore' as a red. I'll have a read up about 'Firefighter' too, sounds lovely.

As for the pinks, what about Parole? It seems to be a bit of a darker pink than Perfume Delight (which looks equally superb).

Parole has giant flowers but you won't get as many flowers as Perfume Delight. Also less fragrant to my nose. If you like fragrance check out others like Double Delight, Fragrant Cloud, Evelyn, Barbra Streisand, New Zealand, Heaven Scent, (aka Memorial Day), Felicia, Ebb Tide, and The Children's Rose (aka Frederic Mistral) if you have lots of room. All these are great roses to grow in Australia.

sholps, I think the rootstocks used in Victoria are either "multiflora" or "Dr Huey", it will depend on which nursery you purchase from As you are in Melbourne and Portland is not far from you I would go for a drive to Treloar Roses, there should be an Autumn flush. The other thing is do you a have nursery or nurseries in mind, this will also influence some of your choices.

As for the standards I know you have considered "Just Joey" for the back, I think it would be nice with "Brass Band"

As "Mr Lincoln", "Firefighter", "Papa Meilland", "City of Newcastle/Veterans Honor", could be considered.

There is another platform which you could use to help you decide, it is called HMF Roses, it is free, but for $24.00 donation you get more bits and pieces.

Thanks David! I’d love to visit Treloar, but it’s a good 4hr drive away. Indeed I intend on buying most/all from Treloar. I’ll have to check out HMF roses, great tip!

Fragrancenutter, I’m blown away by your rose knowledge! You’ve sold me on Perfume Delight. I already have a potted double delight given to me as a gift. Fragrant Cloud was on the shortlist: is it a robust rose in addition to its scent? How does Barbra Streisand compare to Plum Perfection? Or can you suggest a better purple rose?

For the front I’ve started thinking about Perfume Perfection standards. They’re displayed with Brass Band as standards at the Mornington Rose Garden and look amazing. Do you have any experience with this rose?

Sorry for all the questions!

I have Mr Lincoln and Fragrant Plum. Both are robust. And very Fragrant. Mr Lincoln is however more Fragrant compared to Fragrant Plum.

Fragrant Plum grows like there is no tommorow. Goes easily 7 ft tall. But the shade of Pink is not the most beautiful one.

I will suggest that you interperse the Hybrid Tea which grow straight like rockets with some Floribundas. That will make sure that at lower levels there are some flowers too.

Double delight is aka Double disappointment. And my experience has been same.

What vigorously growing roses you’ve got, JustStarted! Good to know about Fragrant Plum not having the best colour.

I wonder if Paradise would be a better lilac rose?

Love PJPII and Just Joey.

Second the recommendation of Firefighter over Mister Lincoln. I have both, FF is so much more productive, and longer lasting, , nicer bush, equally fragrant.

Also: Double Delight, Neil Diamond , Granada, Neptune, Fragrant Cloud, Barbra Streisand, Sedona. All very productive, very fragrant.

sholps, for the mauve and lilac tones I prefer Barbra Streisand as she is super productive in my garden. I also have fragrant plum but the flowers nod downwards and they are nowhere near as many as Barbra Streisand. Neptune is another very fragrant lilac but again not as productive as Barbra, but at least this one is not nodding.

Double Delight is extremely beautiful in my garden. Not a disappointment at all. You can check out all these varieties on my post on 'Fragrant roses that produce abundant perfect cut blooms' cheers.

Fragrant Cloud is a good grower once established. I have mine for 10 years now and she is very productive. It is one of the most fragrant roses ever produced. It is quite a thorny bush but I can live with that.

BenT, Firefighter sounds glorious. Which leads me to ask: who wins in a head-to-head, Firefighter vs Grande Amore?

Fragrancenutter, I've just spent over an hour going through all your posts. I had no idea that I was speaking with rose royalty. First, I'd like your autograph. Second, here's my short list (not so short) of what I intend on buying. Any final advice would be much appreciated, you're obviously Australia's rose queen:

• 1. Pope John Paul II

2. Firefighter (instead of Grande Amore, after seeing your photos and comments)

3. Dame Elizabeth Murdoch (I couldn't see you mentioning that you had DEM in any of your posts?)

4. Gold Medal (a yellow to complete my range of colours. I prefer its deeper hue to Sunny Sky)

5. Barbra Streisand (after reading your post 'Barbra Streisand is still my most fragrant mauve'. Slightly scared I'll get black spot. But the scent and your photos means that it has beaten Paradise)

6. Dark Desire

7. Just Joey

8. Moonstone (I saw this at the Mornington Rose Gardens; never seen such a perfectly shaped rose with a gorgeous scent to boot!)

9. Brass Band 90cm standards x3 for the front garden (row 1)

10. Perfume Perfection 90cm standards x3 for the front garden (row 2)

11. Pierre de Ronsard climber for the fence

12. Augusta Luise (based on your photos)

13. Anything that fragrancenutter thinks is a 'must have'. E.g. Granada?

I wonder if DEM and Gold Medal are too similar? Or if DEM and Augusta Luise are too similar? For range of colour, I was thinking about 'Fearless' - do you have any experience here?

Then there's the planing arrangement to consider. One bed will have 7-8hrs of sun: I have room to plant 4 roses in a row here. The other bed will have 4-6hrs of sun: I have room to plant 8 roses in two rows of 4 here.

- Which roses could handle the 'reduced sunlight bed'?

- Are any of them particularly tall, thus ought to be planted at the back?

The question bombardment is ridiculous, I'm well aware. But I'd regret not picking your brains before making my rather large rose investment. If I could have 50% the success you have then I'd be (double) delighted.

Good choice on Barbra over Paradise, Babs is far more productive and fragrant. And if you worry about disease, Paradise is indeed a paradise for black spot, always gets it first and worst.

Definitely Firefighter over Grand Amore. The only other red HT I’d consider in FF’s league is Veterans Honor, which is less fragrant but produces the most glorious long lasting blooms.

Another vote for Double Delight, and Granada too, both excellent roses for warm sunny climates like yours. I’m very partial to fragrant multi colors,and they are two of the very best.

Everyone I know loves PJPII, there is no more excellent all around rose. Just Joey is still my favorite apricot even thought hundreds have been introduced since it came out.

One more comment: If you can, try to get your roses on Fortuniana rootstock. I believe most of Fragrancenutter’s gorgeous plants are, so it’s definitely available in your country. The majority of my roses are too, they develop big dense root systems that support fat and generous plants.

BenT, just brilliant advice. I already have Double Delight in a pot, given to me as a gift. I love it. On your advice, Granada is officially on the list.

The dilemma is now the similarity between Granada, Augusta Luise, Gold Medal and Dame Elizabeth Murdoch. Which to cull?!

As for the rootstock, I'm planning on buying from Treloar. I can't find on their website any reference to the rootstock they use, so I'm going to email to find out. I'd not given consideration to the rootstock, thanks so much for bringing my attention to this!

A screenshot of the roses that are currently on the short list. Not including the standard roses for the front garden, or the Pierre de Ronsard climber for the wall. I've culled 'Gold Medal'; Dame Elizabeth Murdoch shall suffice as my 'yellow'.

Any colours that I'm missing? Or suggestions for additions?

Here are the two for the front garden:

We must have similar tastes, I was just going to suggest that you cull Gold Medal out of those four! It’s a very good rose overall, but scentless and fades to dull cream.

if you do want to consider a pure yellow, how about Julia Child (Absolutely Fabulous)? I too prefer a large flowered HT, but there isn’t one to my knowledge that has the extraordinary performance and fragrance of Julia Child. Christian Bedard, who heads Weeks Roses, has said that JC is the ideal rose they aim for when breeding a new variety. There is also Golden Celebration, an Austin rose with larger blooms and a wonderful fruity scent. Many folks like Sunsprite/Friesia too, but it shatters too fast in the heat for me.

It seems we don’t have Julia Child/AbFab over here unfortunately. I can’t see any Australian sites that stock it. Which is a shame since it looks like the perfect yellow rose. We do have The Golden Child however, which gets rave reviews.

I had a chat this morning with a major local rose grower. He highly recommended Twilight Zone, Fearless, The Golden Child, Neptune (over Babs for disease issues - I’m sure this varies person to person) and Jubilee Celebration. I think I’m just going to have to bite the bullet and buy some roses before I overthink everything!

Valencia is doing really well for me even though it got sunburnt after I first planted it, it has recovered. It's got 8 big buds on it which I'm going to miss as we're going away for Easter! I'll have to get our housesitter to take photos. The flowers last a long time on the bush though ... I've ordered another one from Treloar for this winter even though our garden is much too small to duplicate roses. I've also ordered Summer Romance & Sexy Rexy from Treloar.

Also, I got Bernstein rose from Knights last winter, it is a lovely yellow rose, totally disease free. Photo here - http://robynnehayward.zenfolio.com/p98098314/h991a46a8#h991a46a8

It's in a pot but I'll plant it out this winter.

Augusta Luise isn't doing too well for me, maybe it will improve when I get it in the ground, but the flowers often look sort of wizened.

Thanks so much lenarufus! Your Valencia sounds divine. I want to add it to the shortlist, however I wonder if it's too similar to Just Joey. If you're familiar with both, what do you think about this?

I adore Bernstein, what a show stopper! Treloar don't sell it unfortunately, and given the shipping for a single rose I probably can't justify it. It's on my 'one day' list however.

Also, that's the best use of the adjective 'wizened' I've ever come across, hilarious!

Funny, I also have a Just Joey obtained for sentimental reasons - it was my partner's mother's rose and when she died we brought it to Sydney from Melbourne, I took a cutting from it too.

No, they are really quite different, the Valencia is more of a gold colour and more sculptured, the Just Joey more apricoty and with frilly edges - Valencia here http://robynnehayward.zenfolio.com/p98098314/h991a4686#h991a4686

and Just Joey here http://robynnehayward.zenfolio.com/p98098314/h9c314023#h9c314023

I'd get both!

Also you had Peach Profusion down, that's lovely too, much smaller flowers but there are more of them as the name suggests .. a pic here http://robynnehayward.zenfolio.com/p98098314/h991a4679#h991a4679

and here is one of Valencia & Peach Profusion together http://robynnehayward.zenfolio.com/p98098314/ha47dbc6d#ha47dbc6d

the Peach Profusion was on its last legs in this photo, I just picked them as they were being frizzled by the sun.

You're lucky to have a big garden! Our sunny north facing space is tiny, and big shady trees at the back

Lenarufus, your advice and photos are simply outstanding. Valencia is now on the shortlist, which reads as follows. The Bush roses with asterisks are still tentative. I've got room for 12 total bush roses: please help me cull!

Standards

1. Brass Band 90cm standards x 3
2. Gold Bunny 90cm standards x 3

Climbers

1. Pierre de Ronsard climbing rose (one fence)
2. Zephirine Drouhin climbing rose (another fence)

Bush roses

1. Dame Elisabeth Murdoch

2. Valencia

3. Just Joey

4. Neptune

5. Fearless

6. Firefighter

7. Pope John Paul Il

8. Dark Desire

9. Twilight Zone

10. The Golden Child**

11. Heaven Scent

12. Augusta Luise**

13. Best Friend

    Moonstone**

I can’t really give you advice, I only know about the roses I have which aren’t many! And Sydney/ Melbourne are pretty different climates so what might do well here might not there and vice versa

Mind you, with climate change Melbourne is becoming more like Sydney. Some wine growers in NSW are having to move south to Tasmania to continue their varieties.

Treloar recommended Summer Romance and I think Sexy Rexy is meant to do well here (but stupid name!) they could give you advice re Melbourne.

A friend has Golden Celebration, a yellow rose which can be trained as a climber but I don’t have any experience with it

Lenarufus,

I realized your link was to an entire photo album, it has to be one of the most beautiful and artistic collections of plants ,birds , kitties and everything else. You are a very talented photographer. Blue Ginger, Roaring Meg Creek Vine...such a diversity of spectacular plants. There are quite a few gorgeous pictures of Just Joey, I’d think everyone would plant one after seeing your pics.

Thank you ... but like most people I only keep the photos that show plants to their advantage! And it’s a different matter photographing individual flowers and plants rather than a whole vista, even though I’ve managed to pack a lot of plants in a small garden, our whole property including house and garden is only about 280m2, about 3000 square feet, most of the garden in semi shade so it’s nothing like those gorgeous gardens you see on gardenweb.

Still lots of fun though