Vlad, i do not know if this work but so far so good, Used Shout, stain remover. I applied it a couple days ago and it work.

Sprayed the tree over and under, waited a half hour and hosed the tree down with tap water. Yesterday check out tree and scale dried out and fell of just by touching.

Tree looks good no harm.

Vladimir, I never use insecticidal soaps, nor neem. I only use horticultural oils. HO can be sprayed on a citrus tree in flower, as long as the blooms are still fully closed, but never when opened. I would never spray anything on a fully open citrus flower. There is nothing that you can use that once the current scale are killed, will keep them from never coming back. Scale, aphids, mealy bug, and white fly, are here with us for ever.

Seriously?? You sprayed your trees with Shout?? Do you know what is in that stuff? Oyyyy!!

btw, Neem IS a horticultural oil.

I will report in the next coming days if the sprayed tree is going to die. I got plenty of tree's to try. This tree has fruitlets. I guess scale don't like OYYYYYY!

Hi Vladimir,

I do my own mix:

- half isopropyl alcohol

- halw water

- a little bit of palmolive

Wait a week and spray another time.

Gardengal, most everyone in the industry calls a product made from refined petroleum which can be mixed with water for pest control application a horticultural oil. But then you already must have known that.

I too use Horticultural Oils...Especially the 'All Seasons Dormant Oil'.

Actually, I think you will find most people in the industry consider any oil used for a horticultural purpose a horticultural oil. And that is the accepted definition. That would include a refined petroleum product as well as vegetable based oils like canola, cottonseed or soybean. And neem.

Gardengal, thank you, but I'll not respond any further as I can see right now that this conversation with you is not going to go anywhere positive.

What.....the chance to perhaps broaden or expand your viewpoint is not a positive thing??

https://www.rodalesorganiclife.com/garden/horticultural-oils-explained

From the above link: "apply them (Horticultural Oils) only as a last resort"

I would use HO whenever needed, but then that link was a Rodale link.

I think my Cannola oil works fine.You need to emulsify it with a teaspoon of soap 1 Tablespoon Cannola oil to a quart of water. Everything is in the kitchen.

Hort oil, sometimes mixed with organic unscented hand soap, over here as well. I liked neem but it is such a PITA to melt and mix. I still have a big jug I use in warmer seasons.

Good luck V!

Neem is NOT a horticultural oil; neem is a broad spectrum insecticide of natural origin that is mixed with HO to make what is commonly known as Neem oil. And that's a fact, not an opinion.

John, I dunno where you got that interpretation but it is not accurate:

"Neem oil is a vegetable oil pressed from the fruits and seeds of the neem (Azadirachta indica), an evergreen tree which is endemic to the Indian subcontinent and has been introduced to many other areas in the tropics. It is the most important of the commercially available products of neem for organic farming and medicines.

Neem oil varies in color; it can be golden yellow, yellowish brown, reddish brown, dark brown, greenish brown, or bright red. It has a rather strong odor that is said to combine the odours of peanut and garlic. It is composed mainly of triglycerides and contains many triterpenoid compounds, which are responsible for the bitter taste. It is hydrophobic in nature; in order to emulsify it in water for application purposes, it is formulated with surfactants."

That it has insecticidal and fungicidal properties over and above its value as a hort oil is really incidental but a nice bonus. And it is NOT mixed with any other horticultural oil - it is a natural pressed seed oil just like canola or soy or cottonseed oil

And that, sir, is a well publicized fact, not an opinion.

,

Well, gardengal, I guess we will just have to accept that you are a lot smarter than the rest of us. Try not to be too smart; there are a lot of smart people here. Perhaps there is a pure neem oil extracted from seeds; but it is not the neem oil that most of the world knows; that one is a neem extract mixed with horticultural oil.

Seems to me the disagreement is mostly over the terminology. While a valid discussion, it can derail the overall question about scale.

I am also battling scale. Specifically soft scale. And it appears that you need to spray when the crawler stage is active. I have never been able to see a crawler stage, so I wonder if I need to use sticky tape to trap and inspect with magnification?? That just seems like one of those things people write but never really do. Do the crawlers move downward, or randomly? Because with all those branches, you'd really only want to wrap the main trunk, realistically.

Soft scale is easy (SIMPLE) to control with a good quality HO.I've been in the commercial greenhouse business much of my adult life, and have sprayed for scale, mealy bug, aphid, white fly, mites, etc. etc, more times than I could possibly count over the years. We always used a horticultural oil called Ultra Pure. The volatility is rapid that an oil build up on the foliage never ever happens. A plus for the greenhouse work force is that a good HO such as Ultra Pure has no order. If we used neem, inside the greenhouse I think we would be hearing all kinds of complaints.

John, it is not a question about being "smarter than the rest of us". I am no dummy and do hold a horticultural degree but all that I have written above is very easily researched and you do not need a horticultural degree to do so! If you do not believe ALL the evidence out there to the contrary, then by all means provide your own (with cites). Or give me a product label that disputes this. Virtually any you will find will list the active ingredient as 'clarified hydrophobic extract of neem oil'. It may also contain a surfactant /emulsifier that helps it to mix with water and sometimes includes some other insecticide as well. But I have never seen any neem formulation that included some other type of petroleum based horticultural oil. There would be no need for that sort of addition.

Hibiscus, treating scale when in the crawler stage IS the most effective method. And they are hard to see and very tiny. If you can identify the type of scale by the adults, you can find out precisely when the crawlers are likely to be present and most active but generally most scale will produce crawlers in spring. Spraying them when adults is significantly less effective as their protective coating prohibits contact with oil or other pesticide. It is almost a wasted effort.

Protective coating on a soft scale? Nothing is more easy to control than soft scale.

Yeah, a protective coating on soft scale....do the research!!

And I am done with this thread. Never have I encountered a more mule-headed and generally unpleasant bunch of gardeners in my life. And so adverse to doing any sort of basic research to support your contentions. But I guess ignorance is bliss....although you all appear to be far too tetchy and irascible to be very blissful.

I just got cataract surgery 30 hours ago and am enjoying reading these arguments. The insecticidal soap mix should wash the leave free of a lot of the Neem. It should help and after a few spraying over the weeks you can apply another Neem treatment if need be.

Steve

Gardengal - I agree with you regarding neem oil being an extract and it not containing petroleum distillates.

I hope you continue to contribute your knowledge to this forum. Unfortunately, sometimes the discussions devolve into a kind of one-upsmanship with people trying to show how much smarter and more knowledgeable they are. However, I welcome their opinions as much as your own because they, too, often provide valuable information.

Gardengal, one question. HO kills by suffocation. Scale, as all life must breath in order to live. All life forms have some sort of protective coating, yet they must have an opening of some sort in order to breath. Soft scale has a protective coating, but different than the hard scale. If the soft scale is coated with HO it must suffocate. What is your say on this statement? Sorry if you think us a bunch of mules. We are actually quite nice people.

I think if you examine the topic closely you will find that there are any number of forms of life that do not have a protective coating and breath through their skin. They are known as soft bodied insects and include aphids, mealybugs, white flies and thrips and many larval stages of other insects. That's why the application of a hort oil is an effective control for these organisms - it coats the bodies and smothers them. If there were a protective covering, it obviates the action of the oil. This is also the case with soft scale - its protective covering prevents direct contact with the oil and the expectation of suffocation is not successfully met. You can get some degree of control on adult soft scale by repeated applications of hort oil but much less - virtually none - with any armored scale. And if you look at any .edu publication on scale control, none of them make any differentiation between recommendations for treating hard or armored scale and soft scale: a hort oil on the crawlers and physical removal or a systemic pesticide on the adults. Or the use of beneficials.

"We are actually quite nice people."

You don't necessarily come across as that. Based on my recent interactions with several members of this forum, I would say there is a strong degree of "we know what we know and anyone with a differing approach or viewpoint is full of crap". That is a closed mindedness that I find peculiar to anyone who is more than idly interested in gardening or growing specific plant types. And it is an attitude that is not very nice and is often expressed quite rudely.

Gardengal, I have known you for years and in fact you and I have had the same mentor to get to where we are! We have a history here, on the Hoya, Cactus, Containers, Rose, Fragrant, Houseplant, and many other forums!

Please, for what it's worth, there are members here that far surpass the "mules" as you say that REALLY appreciate the gifts you have to offer including me, I do, and a whole handful that have been nothing but kind and eager to learn, not to mention any names.

I agree, there are at time mules here, but then so too at the Cactus Forums and others, a reason why I stopped posting there for a while and many other forums. Promised myself I was not going to give myself that lost opportunity to help others despite what a slight handful might act like or say and that is why I am posting up a storm there again....One thing I did promise myself is that I will never stop being kind or helping those of the general population here or any other place in which the majority far outweigh the few.

You and I go way back and I know as you know I do that there are many innocent good hearted ones that watch us through closed doors, hang around but never post, lurk, and even post that truly appreciate all that we do and share.

As a plea to you, please don't leave here for the sake of a few, but continue to be a gem here on this forum and the many others that you have made a huge impact on, including on what I know. Sounds good?

You of all people I believe will not disappoint nor the many others that truly have a soft spot for you, me just as our mentor Al have never. You and I know he never gives up on the many that DO appreciate good help that many need to know.

From Me to you, one member here that has always respected and appreciated your offerings. We need people like you here! ))

E- ail anytime if need be

mikerno_1@yahoo.com

I feel like i am the dumbmest guy in this group, i also did the dumbest thing using SHOUT. I did not paid any attention with this tree but it was loaded with scale.

After one single treatment, no more scale and tree look good. It is my tree got to try something.

Hey Bob, I think many are willing to try anything as long as it is safe for their trees. If I try that and it kills any part of mine, I am coming after you! LOL

To give advice like that is to risk loosing respect from other forum members without pics..Post a few will yah and keep us updated a week or two after the fact will you? Give us a SHOUT. In many cases, damage does not show up for days afterwards.

Mike)

If you haven't already, I'd wash off whatever of the stain remover might be left on the foliage. And keep the plant out of the sun. Lots of times, these chemicals may have no apparent impact on a plant outwardly but can create a phytotoxic reaction when combined with sunlight.

But in general, It is just not a great idea to spray plants with household cleaning products to control insect pests :-))

Gardengal, thank you! And might I add most detergent soaps that many might think are safe also can cause much damage. Catch you later))

Ok Mike got your ticket, you got to leave tonight. Misses 48 the tree is outside in the sun, it is 72* today, tomorrow same.Kind of strong wind.

You guys got to read what i did, i sprayed, wait a half hour than hose the tree down.

It has been a week. I just post what i.i.i. am doing, for me don't need respect what does that means.

Hey Bob, I'm in. I'd love to see temps like that!! Thanks for the nice warm weather updates..Yuk. I am way below average and maybe another Blizzard next Tuesday! When will this suffering end Bob? lol

Pluots are blooming hopefully don't get a surprise temps , potted figs are leafing out.

Might take the pontoon for a ride tomorrow, our lake never freeze. Mike when you come let me know i'l have your favorite drink ready, a Aviation Martini is that right.

Just use good quality lighweight paraffin based summer oil. You can paint the trunk with a thick dilution of it. It evaporates soon enough from foliage if sprayed using the recommended dilution rates.. Do not use under hot or too humid conditions. Neem oil products are not that kind to soft tissue.

If you are going to paint the trunk, use a cheap latex white paint diluted 1 to 1 with water; it will protect the trunk from sunburn which can kill the tree.