Solve Crape Murder.... or Relocate Crape Myrtle

6 years ago

Hi Everyone! Long time lurker, first time poster.

I have inherited a crape myrtle that has seen its share of crape murder. It's my first experience with a crape myrtle so I did quite a bit of research before I decided to start pruning. I began doing recommended pruning yesterday afternoon of lower branches and dead trunks from improper previous pruning. Now I can actually see how bad of shape this thing is in. Healthy, but UGLY. Here is a picture of how it currently sits. Post continued below.

Crepe Murder! · More Info

As you can tell I have my work cut out for me to get this back into a properly pruned crape myrtle. Might not even be possible. Another thing is that I don't exactly like it being this close to the house. Not sure about this particular tree's root system, but typically roots and foundations do not mix. (Continued)

Crepe Murder! · More Info

Most of what I have cut out here was actually dead. Literally murdered! I got what i could with the loppers, but will need to break out the saw to perform some closer surgery. (Continued)

Crepe Murder! · More Info

Crepe Murder! · More Info

Once I cut away the obvious limbs I could more clearly see how bad this thing looks. It appears it was improperly pruned most if not all of its life. The extended cutoffs will be removed closer to the tree with the saw. (Continued)

Crepe Murder! · More Info

Crepe Murder! · More Info

There are a few trunks that have fused together. I have no clue what to do there.

From first observations it seems there really isn't much I can do to turn this back into a proper crape myrtle. I can't pick out any definite trunks to remove/keep to give it the nice vase shape it deserves.

So there are only three options I can think of. Removal, relocation and stay ugly, or hope to repair from everyone's knowledge on here. Maybe a combination of all three?

I do have a place in the backyard where there was a trampoline that is landscaped and now empty. I was planning on grassing that area, but it might be a nice place to relocate this monster.

All input is appreciated! Thanks!

Featured Answer

Jean

6 years ago

If you want a crape myrtle in the backyard, start oer with a healthy, young tree you will properly prune as needed.

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Comments (16)

gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
6 years ago
Can you define what you imagine a "proper crape myrtle" to be? If you imagine a single trunked 'tree', then this is not going to be the specimen for you. Most are multi-trunked large shrubs that can be encouraged into a tree-like form to show off their exfoliating bark.

I also wouldn't be overly concerned about its proximity to the foundation. If the foundation is structurally sound, tree roots - even aggressive ones (which the crape is not) - will not bother a foundation.
flyinghumanoid
Original Author
6 years ago
Several (4-5) trunks in varying directions growing from a single general area to create a vase shape. If you look at the first picture to me it seems like there were several established trunks of an original tree on the left that got crowded by new growth that was never trimmed back on the right and created the tangled mess. And over time they were all top chopped. I'm really trying to figure out the next step of pruning if it stays where it is as far as which trunks should go if any and what to prune off the keepers.

On a non-serious note I did ponder if I could put a ratchet strap around the main trunks and pull them closer together over time and tie some overlapping branches together to fuse like a larger freestyle bonsai.
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Hmmmm. Are you saying that the nursery has already topped the trees? That sort of pruning is not 'fixable', but perhaps that's not what they did. Can you let us see a picture of one of the victims? I don't like the words: "cut back" when it comes to crapemyrtles, I have to admit. Are you ordering these plants sight unseen? I feel very strongly that crapemyrtles should never be purchased that way. So much of their beauty, in my opinion, is created by a unique structure....what I call 'good bones'. You should hand pick the ones you think will grow up to be beauties. They should be a structural showpiece in the winter, too. Crapemyrtles do not need to be pruned at all. Removing their seed pods is a waste of time as the new growth will grow around the flower stems come spring. The pods and flower stems will simply fall off. Some simple detail pruning (crossing branches, inward growing branches, and similar) should be done only to enhance the physical beauty of this tree. What kind(s) are you ordering?
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get rid of it ... dont mess around with prior owners problems ... now the issue is 'when' .... if you have machines around.. and can do it for free from the guy digging a basement.. do it then ... on the other hand.. if it is blocking a neighbor view.. well plant the rest of the yard.. and in a few years.. when some replacement is of size.. then get rid of it then ... though it will either cost you some very heavy labor.. or some checkbook gardening .... let me put it this way.. were you to buy a house.. and it came with a chic 1930's kitchen.. would you keep it.. just because of the history .. cuz its been there since the house was built??? i submit.. it would be the first renovation... and so should this thing.. be done with it and dont feel guilty .. ken
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Geez Louise, the Crape Murder has started already!
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I'm coming to the discussion late but had to weigh in. Imagine if you saw people in the neighborhood making and eating some stuff out of flour and water and a some lesser ingredients. After it was mixed together, they baked it, smeared some butter on it and it was heavenly delicious! They called it bread. When you tried to copy it at home, you didn't know about the yeast so your attempt at making bread was a disaster. How can something one place can be so delicious and somewhere else, inedible? But that, in fact, is what's happening with crape myrtle pruning on a grand scale. While I fully support the annual pruning (which can be done anytime during the dormant season) I notice that upwards of 90 or 95 percent of the pruning is done poorly, or horribly and could rightfully be termed "crape myrtle murder." But I think this term is unfortunate as, instead of persuading the fearful and uninformed to learn a better pruning strategy, it causes them to not prune at all or only very little. If crape myrtle pruning did not produce SOME beneficial effects, it would cease. So even if done poorly, some good effects result: larger, healthier looking leaves... larger bloom clusters... leaves retained longer into the season... longer lasting blooms... arching branches that nearly create a "weeping" form. These effects, to some degree, come even with the worst pruning jobs. If the pruning is done well, one also benefits by having a "tree" whose form is impeccable, whose size is appropriate to its setting, whose trunk structure is a sculptural object in and of itself and whose overall presence is commanding of its space. A well pruned crape is a sight to behold. Unfortunately, we almost never see one. The terms "tree" and "shrub" are ill defined divisions within the woody plants. I use them to explain FORM, not size: A tree is a woody plant with one or more trunks (vertical) in which the bottom branches (horizontal) are absent. A shrub is a woody plant with multiple trunks (vertical) in which the branches (horizontal) are retained so that foliage is continuous to the ground. Most plants that we call trees, if left to grow in the middle of a sunny field and never pruned, would qualify as shrubs. Plants that we think of as "shrubs" sometimes lose their bottom branches and turn into "trees." It's pretty easy to see that the area between "trees" and "shrubs" contains a lot of "grey." What is the nature of a crape myrtle left to its own devices? It would definitely be a shrub... a very large shrub as crapes can climb to the 40' height range. At such a size, it's spread would likely be 25' or so. It begins to become obvious that if we let woody plants only grow "naturally" we would be barely be able to contain any of them in our yards. So like the maples and oaks, we frequently limb up crape myrtles and other large shrubs by removing their lower branches. Even those who tend to be against altering plants via pruning, are almost universally content to turn crape myrtles into "trees." The question becomes, TO WHAT HEIGHT should crape myrtles be limbed up? The bottom of a tree canopy forms a "ceiling." I suggest that the answer is contained in the idea that plants are serving the needs of humans. When has a person ever found it desirable to have a ceiling dragging on their hair or smacking them in the face? Ceilings created by plants should clear the human head. That means that they will be no lower than 7' at the extreme. But like ceilings in houses, often higher "feels" better than lower so there is rarely an objection to limbing up further. (I'm speaking of how the SPACE seems... not the object within the space.) Look around at the crape myrtles you see pruned... or "murdered." How many of them are cut to a height of only four to six feet? This means that all the branching will occur not above one's head, but directly in one's face. Instead of being a ceiling to walk under, crapes become visual and physical obstructions. (Scroll up to look, again, at the photo posted by pabrocb. This is a very typical pruning.) While you're looking, also take a good look at the trunk structure. (pabrocb, I'm not trying to pick on your crape, I just need a photo to use and yours is already here and it works. But it would be one of thousands.) There is predominantly one main vertical trunk. Two smaller trunks break off to the right and left, defining the overall "V" shape of the plant, within which are a couple more minor "whips." The trunk system viewed from above might look like half an asterisk. For a moment, let's imagine what a handsome bouquet of flowers in a crystal vase looks like. Are the stems organized... or crossing chaotically from any direction? Are they of disparate sizes... or similar? Are they uniform of texture... or with a patchwork of random leaves attached at any point? When viewed from above, are they full (3-dimensionally)... or is their form like that partial asterisk? Take a quick look at a vase of flowers to see why it has appeal. I suggest that putting to use some of the principles employed in creating the vase of flowers when pruning a crape, can produce a plant with statesman-like stature... rather than one that appears to have been for some time homeless. I hunted Google images for an example of a crape myrtle pruned in the way I'm describing, but couldn't find even one ideal example. There are runners up but nothing on the money. I'm attaching a sketch that gives an idea of what I suggest makes a useful and beautiful crape. Nowhere in my discussion am I claiming that a crape myrtle grown in the tree form and left unpruned (as in Kate's example directly above) is undesirable, ugly or in some way without merit. They make beautiful, "natural" looking trees. But... there are many times that one does not want the 20 or 30-foot height... or the smaller, more sparse foliage, or the upright habit or the thinner, more sparse flowering, etc., etc. In these cases, annual pruning CAN turn a crape myrtle into a very useful and beautiful, "right sized" plant. When done properly, even the leafless winter form--beheaded or not--can be an outstanding sight. Also, there is another feature of annually pruned crapes that develops over time if one is consistent in their pruning... that is the formation of swollen, "paddle"-like woody structures at the tips of the trunks. These are hard to describe to one who has never seen them. They become large and let the crape take on a persona reminiscent of a strange and exotic undersea creature... or an unusual artistic sculpture. At least, they are fascinating and interesting conversation pieces. To those who ARE murdering their crapes, you might consider making a few changes to your pruning methods so here's a few tips: If the trunk structure is not good (like a full bouquet) there is nothing you can do but start over. However, you should know if you've ever cut down an undesirable weed sapling in an attempt to get rid of it, it will grow back (with more trunks) in very short order. I wouldn't hesitate to cut a crape back to about 18" right before the spring growing season. It will regrow with many more trunks. (This process is called 'rejuvenation.') Each year evaluate it's structure and if there are not enough trunks, cut it back to half its height. Eventually, there will be enough where you want them. Remove any trunks that start on one side and cross over through the center to the other side. They should all radiate in an outward direction from the center in order to appear organized. After much looking, I consider the ideal "V" shape spread to be about 45*. Narrower than that, crapes just don't look like they have as much money in their pocket. Wider than that, the trunks start appearing or becoming obstructions to use of the space they're in... so it depends on the setting. So I remove any trunks or cut them back so that only those within this imagined cone remain. Trunks are more vertical than 45*; branches are more horizontal than 45*. When doing the annual dormant season pruning, remove all branches and let only trunks remain. In general, cut back the trunk length to one half of the recent year's growth. It will be a mistake to leave it all as it terminates in weak, thin growth of not uniform height. Trimming it back by half allows growth to the overall height of the tree, helps it to keep an organized appearing presence and keeps the trunks stout and strong relative to the weight and burden of the coming growing season. (The trunks also need to "branch" a little on their up in order that the cone shape continues to be full of trunks as it widens out.) Cut all trunks straight across the top. If they are cut at varying heights they do not look good. It is much more bother to create a "domed" appearance and it does not look good either. Straight is easiest and best. As, and after the tree branches out, completely remove all branches that occur below half the height of the tree. While the new branches are just buds or soft growth, this can be done very quickly with the wipe of a gloved hand. Yesterday, I cleaned up a small crape (about 6' ht.) for my mom and it took about 20 minutes. Almost all of the small, twiggy branches can be knocked off with any weighty implement. Strike downward (but not actually scraping off bark) alongside the trunk and they will just quickly pop off. I usually do this with my closed hand pruners, but a machete or even a heavy screwdriver will work. Over a few years, a crape will work it's way upward so that you are cutting the main trunks at the final height of 8' above the ground. This is what I would consider the minimum. It works out pretty well for having the canopy clear a person's head. And it's a cutting height that one can do while standing on the ground... with a good set of loppers. A 5' height person would need a small step-stool to do this job. Depending on the circumstances of the setting, a higher final trunk cutting height might be desired. I know there are plenty of people who will always prefer a "natural" look and will never want to grow a crape as I describe. I'm not trying to convince them to change. But if one likes the features and benefits that annual pruning of crapes provides, I hope they consider looking "beyond leaves and flowers" and examine how much more improved a crape can be if its structure is properly shaped and organized and given the attention it deserves. Then any common crape can become an outstanding specimen. Hopefully, soon, the homicide rate will begin to fall. I realize, also, that my method is contrary to the majority of advice given about maintaining crapes: "Let 3 or 4 main trunks remain." "Cut at 6' height." "Every so often, remove old trunks and let them be replaced with new ones." This is pat horticultural shrub maintenance advice with no regard to the design aspect or purpose a plant serves. Even though I have a degree in horticulture, I've been happily disregarding this advice for decades.
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Anything else for this young crape myrtle?
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Comments (8)
I bought a black diamond crepe myrtle last year, and it had been butchered much like this one. It did not bloom, but I did thin it out and tip prune it this winter. Before: After (about 2 months ago, looks really good now): If it stops raining I will go out and take a new photo since it has all of its leaves. Also, all crepes bend over when they flower. The green tape should prevent them from breaking.
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flyinghumanoid
Original Author
6 years ago
I don't really want one in the back yard. I would move this monster to the back only because it would be easier to move it than try to turn the area in the back that is landscaped into grass. There was a trampoline there and now it's gone. Empty space of stone edging leaves and pine needles. I would then get a healthy, young tree to properly prune to take its place in the front.
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User
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
This poor crape has been through a lot, but they’re extremely tough and resilient. It certainly will look better when it leafs out and starts flowering ... but if you don’t want it there, then yes, move it. And then leave it alone and let it do it’s thing.

There’s no “fixing” crape murder, but it can still be lovely and valuable, and will look better each year of not overpruning.

They can suffer quite a bit of shock after transplanting (especially ones this mature), so don’t expect otherwise if you do that. It may take a growing season to recover. And get ready to dig a very large hole!

——————

“On a non-serious note I did ponder if I could put a ratchet strap around the main trunks and pull them closer together over time and tie some overlapping branches together to fuse like a larger freestyle bonsai.”

No, no, no. Not a good idea. Naturally occurring fused branches are fine, I’ve had several do that with no issues (30 yrs of growing them), but don’t try to force that, please. :) It’s been stressed enough.
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toronado_3800
6 years ago
Digging it out woyld be WAY more effort than going to the big box store and spending $20 on a new one. Trust me, I goofed and moved one, once. It survived btw, but never again!

Where are you located geographically?

Here crapes die back frequently and leave a bush of live and dead trunks. 5 of 6 years mine are effectively perrenials like Hostas. The dead wood helps start late May bonfires.
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
6 years ago
the base problem.. is that .. as a babe.. it was planted for the size of the plant at point of sale ... with no real concept of its future potential ...

once it stated growing.. 1 or 2 feet from the foundation .. there was no choice as to pruning ... but crape murder ...

its simply to big a plant.. for where it is planted ...

sometimes its easier to cut bait ... and start over ... and either plant it a bit further away ... OR ... buy a plant with smaller potential ... OR ... properly prune it every other year or two ...

on the other hand ... [its never simple... lol] ... and do understand i have never had a CM up here in MI ... so i will defer if i am way off base ... you might try hardcore renovation ... go in there and remove the largest 1/3 of the trunks ... trying to get it to resprout way down low ... next year ... take the second third ... etc ...

inside 3 years .. you will have refreshed the whole plant.. to new vital growth .. which you can train properly over the years .. [until you move and leave this nightmare for the next peep .. lol] .. upside here .. you learn a lot about pruning ... downside ... its right in front of the house .. perhaps not the best place for such an experiment ...

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=renovation+pruning+of+crape+&t=ffcm&ia=web

when i bought my first house.. there was a slew of 40 year plus shrubs... and i wanted to save them .. for the history of the house ... 5 years later i removed the last nightmare ... one of the happiest garden days in that garden ... pshaw on house history .... after all.. i didnt keep the paisley 3 inch shag rugs either.. lol ...

https://flashbak.com/selling-harvest-gold-shag-carpet-ads-from-the-1960s-1970s-385094/

play around.. learn to prune.. but keep it in mind.. that removal might be the best answer ... of course.. if you are an instant gratification type.. just do it now ...

ken
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flyinghumanoid
Original Author
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
I'm in zone 7a, Piedmont North Carolina. I'm beginning to lean towards removal. This is my first house and there is so much I'm having to redo the correct way inside and out because the previous owners were "Pinterest DIY" junkies.

I don't have 3 years to hope I can revive this crepe myrtle into something beautiful. If I'm still here in 4 years something in my life went terribly wrong.

Below is what I'm working with. On the right there's a "Koi pond" that has lilies, dead lily leftovers and a bunch of algae, totally different project. Then two unknown bushes that flower. Help identifying would appreciated. Then the crape myrtle.

I was raised a gardener, not a landscaper. I don't like taking care of plants I can't eat. I plan to dig out everything that isn't the two bushes and maybe the crape myrtle. Fill back in with dirt, cover with weed barrier and mulch. Directly in front of the "Koi pond" will be grassed. Any plant additions behind will be edibles in pots, think edible landscape.

If I were to remove the crepe myrtle what would be something viable taking its place? I'm not against pruning and general maintenance. I don't want anything I'd have to baby.

Hmm. Birds like to nest in the fake ferns the previous owners put hanging from the porch. Maybe a bird bath and feeder.

Crape Murder! · More Info
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User
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Others can advise on plant placing, I just want to say established crapes don’t have to be babied at all. I think you’re overthinking it a lot. It’s been butchered, yes, but it can still be a beautiful plant. It doesn’t need more pruning, hardcore renovation, or years worth of trying to change it. It’s fine to just leave be (or move and leave be). It looks bad right now because the butchering of it is so visible in its bare state ... it will look completely different this summer. Crapes are very easy keepers in the right spots.

That said, if you don’t like it, you don’t like it, and would probably be happier taking it out. And if you aren’t sure, concentrate on the other things and see what you think about it after a blooming season. Summer growth will give you a good idea of liking or not liking it there.
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rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
6 years ago
I strongly advise removing it. One very nice aspect of a properly pruned Crapemyrtle is its winter beauty. The smooth, muscular branches can be stunning all winter long, like a piece of natural sculpture.

That effect is destroyed as soon as the tree is topped, cropped, or chopped.

Why keep something that hurts your feelings every time you look at it? Spend a bit of time researching named cultivars and their descriptions. The National Arboretum Crapemyrtle list of introductions is a good place to start.

Crapes grow pretty fast; don't be tempted to buy a big one. Try to find one that hasn't been topped by the grower or nursery. When you get it home, you can do some thinning but no tip pruning. Thinning opens the canopy, eliminates crossing and inward growing branches, allows for improved sunlight penetration, etc.

I prefer the multi-trunked specimens for aesthetic reasons, what about you?
flyinghumanoid
Original Author
6 years ago
Miz_G you're right. I am overthinking it like I do everything. It was very pretty when we moved in because I didn't know anything about it and couldn't see the murder. I'm looking at it as pure aesthetic for resale. Who know's the time of year the house will be looked at.

So in that respect I think I'll keep it, prune it how I think it should be and see how it looks this spring.

I really should concentrate on everything esle. Especially the "Koi pond" which the previous owners thought the Koi were still hibernating in April when in fact they were eaten by a large cat I've seen coming to check it out quite a bit. Now it's home to a large frog.

BUT, rhizo_1 gave a good case for removal. Start fresh and I know the new crape myrtle will be treated right. I'll give it this blooming season and see how it does.
rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
6 years ago
flying, when we purchased our present home there were three very undesirable (to us, both are horticultural and arboricultural specialists), trees. Two were the dreaded Bradfords and the other a horrible looking dogwood. We loved the neighborhood, loved the house, and didn't give a moment's thought to the ugly trees.

We had those trees erased from that landscape within a few days of moving in, lol. I would do the same thing with your butchered crape. But it wouldn't stop me from buying.....so rest easy.
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krnuttle
6 years ago
One thing to consider; if you remove that crepe myrtle and replant, it will be years before the new plant will provide the flowers that one does. I live in an addition that is a bout 10 year old. Most of the crepe myrtle, while having flowers, none have the flowers of that plant.

Most people do not realize that a crepe myrtle is a slow growing tree, and will grow large. There is one beside our church that is nearly 30 feet tall. I have see others in the area of equal size and many in the 20' range.

It you try to keep it as a bush, you are going to get what you call crepe murder.
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User
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
There are many varieties of crapes — tree forms, shrubs, mini-weepers, dwarf. Not all are tree size. Clearly, the one in the OP’s yard is a large variety (and unfortunately the previous owners didn’t make a good choice planting it there), but not all are the same.

And transplanting alone doesn’t result in years of no flowers. I have had many bloom the same season I transplanted them, some didn’t. It depends on the variety, time of year, extent of transplant shock, and in some cases, the amount of sun they’re getting.
NHBabs z4b-5a NH
6 years ago
"Fill back in with dirt, cover with weed barrier and mulch."

If you don't want to fuss with this area, don't put down landscape fabric as a weed barrier. Plant shrubs that will remain relatively small so you don't have to prune and groundcover (both chosen to suit the site as far as space and light needs) and then mulch well while the groundcover fills in. Put in a ground level edging to keep the grass out. Add mulch if needed in future years and weed for 10 minutes a month. Landscape fabric doesn't prevent weeds and it makes weeding more difficult when roots grow into it as well as interfering with water, air, and nutrient movement so the shrubs won't be healthy.

I am another vote for removing rather than trying to rescue that crape myrtle. For the back yard, if you aren't looking for a tree in that spot, don't put one there. Your use of the yard doesn't need to be dictated by the previous owners' mistakes. Figure out how deep the sand is and either turn it in along with lots of organic matter and plant to grass or edibles or whatever, or remove some of the sand if it's too deep either scattering it around the yard or using it for helping to fill holes or advertising as free fill for anyone who wants to come get it.
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davidrt28 (zone 7)
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Sorry to bump...

Ken gets to the heart of the matter that this was too big a cultivar planted too close to the house; in addition to it having been 'crape murdered'.

They are so cheap, and so readily available...and I disagree with krnuttle; they are actually pretty fast growing plants in the grand scheme of things. Maybe I just spend a lot of time with plants that are really trees, but take many years to become them. (larger growing elepidote rhododendrons; I have a 'Mt. Siga' that is a only 3' after almost 10 years; yet I have seen one of Gable's original Mt. Sigas in SE PA that must be 12')

Wait until it leafs out; cut it as close to the ground as possible with a chain saw, and paint the surfaces with undiluted glyphosate or triclopyr, to quickly finish it off. (or cover with something impervious if you prefer a herbicide free approach) Plant a new, slower growing SHRUB, farther out in this "foundation" planting bed. Which could mean one of the SHRUBBY cultivars of Crape Myrtle.
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Solve Crape Murder.... or Relocate Crape Myrtle

Jean

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