the beginning: IKEA kitchen reno. Guide me, wise ones!
Hi everyone, I'm a newbie to posting but I've read a lot of posts on Houzz and am blown away with how thoughtful and knowledgable people are. So I'm hoping to garner some wisdom from the cloud to make our upcoming kitchen reno go more smoothly. I've got quite a few questions I'm hoping you can provide help on - but first let me introduce the project and the users of the kitchen.
We are about to renovate our kitchen in our vintage-1983 home. It's our forever house and in the last 8.5 years we've done a lot of work (mostly on our own) to update and refresh it. The kitchen is in the middle of a long line of expensive projects we need to undertake, so I'll be GC'ing it myself and we'll be self-performing a lot of work.
Before I go further here is a BEFORE pic. Watch out, you are about to be timewarped to 1983. All I have to say is thank goodness that laminate counter is cream and not green or blue.
So, before I describe the scope, let me give you the scoop. We're a family of five, two working parents with kids 5, 7, and 10. Busy, yes; dinner ranges from frozen pizza to uber-healthy home-cooked options. Baking is a special occasion, and vegetable chopping is a daily priority.
OK now for the scope, then I'll get to the questions I have.
1. We'll demo the soffit and the bank o' fluoro lights. Replace with can lights and a pretty set of pendants over the island.
2. We'll replace the vinyl everywhere you see in the photo with maple hardwood (a question on that later...).
3. We'll be doing IKEA cabinets. Bodbyn, offwhite. Classicforever ;)
4. Obviously we'll be getting rid of the fence you see in the foreground. It divides the dining area from a step-down into the living room, and eventually I'd like to replace it with a custom maple bookshelf, but it wouldn't be critical to get that done with the main thrust of flooring.
5. Floor plan stays basically the same, except we'll probably move the fridge from near the stove to near the table, along the same wall. (you can sort of see a desk builtin at the far right of the picture - under a ton of clutter - that's where the fridge would go).
Now, before I get to my questions, a few more pictures. These are the before. Like, from almost-before-I-was-born before.
Dining area. We plan to swap this table out for a hand-me-down heavy heavy solid oak one that we'd have re-stained and painted. Traditional...yet updated.
I thought about a wider window and decided that the proportions would be off and I'd end up sacrificing valuable cabinet space above the dishwasher. (I found about a dozen other reasons it wasn't worth trying to make it bigger).
So, like I said, I'm 90% sure I'd put the fridge on the right, closer to the table. There will be some IKEA planner shots below so you can see what I have in mind. Anyone have strong opinions on this?
So, that 2002 fridge is about 6" shallower than a standard 2018 fridge and about 2" deeper than a counter-depth. So, family of five, we will be eating out of a counter-depth fridge. Otherwise the fridge will cause fire code egress issues. (Sidenote: the kitchen remodel starts the day that fridge dies, even if we're not quite ready...the clearance under the cabinets is about 2" shorter than a modern fridge).
The "not-really-after" photos:
All right. Questions.
1. Where do I put my trash? Right now it is next to the fridge. Super inconvenient. How do you feel about under-the-sink? Has anyone found a 36" pullout from IKEA to be wobbly or are they just fine? I'd rather not sacrifice much coveted island storage to put a pullout in there, but I do want the trash closer to all the action on the island and at the sink than it is right now. I can't put it next to the sink because the next cabinet over is only 12" wide. We have a fancy-dancy water filter hogging up under-sink space but genius-hubby thinks he can mount it on the ceiling of our unfinished basement. Brilliant.
2. Is it too much white? I thought about doing semihandmade panels for the island and painting them Ben Moore's Van Deusen Blue, which I have used several times over the past 10 years and still love, but decided instead to add color with my other oak table instead (stained dark top, white base, and deep blue chairs).
3. Is it ok if I don't have glass doors? I love how they look in magazines. And my house never looks like a magazine. I'm super organized but I tend to stuff my cabinets full. Any place I considered putting them doesn't work because it's a 24" upper - which IKEA doesn't sell with glass. I wish IKEA sold cabinet doors with bubble glass or something. Thoughts?
4. Thoughts on creative solutions for charging devices? We currently leave our phones charging or laying on the desk where the fridge will be. I like having them out/usable and charging. We also have an ever-growing assortment of kindles, tablets, etc. Those could be behind cabinet doors. My best thought are strategically placed USB outlets on the small counter next to the fridge and in the cabinet above. Looking for creative solutions.
5. Does that drawer arrangement on the island look weird? I really wanted two shallow drawers at the top of each section, but I also wanted one deep drawer. That was my best shot...and I suspect function-over-form may compromise aesthetics a bit much...but I am really bad at the aesthetic stuff.
6. Prefinished or site-finished maple hardwoods? We have prefinished in 2 other rooms (one is the formal dining area which shares only an inconspicuous doorway with the kitchen, so I'm fine if they don't match 100%). Prefinished has a more durable finish and would be WAY cheaper since superhero-hubby is an old hat at installing it; but site-finished wouldn't have grooves. We frequent a lake place that has grooved laminate in the kitch that is just fine - but it's a vacation home, not a 100% home kitchen.
7. I don't love the open cabinet to the left of the dishwasher, but that space is gridlocked. From right to left it's corner-cab, 12" cab with pullouts, sink, dishwasher, and mabye 11" of space at best. Any ideas on making that work nicely? I don't really want to go with a puny sink to put larger base cabs in.
8. Countertop color, light fixtures, and backsplash? Oh, you mean those aesthetic things that make a kitchen pretty. All I've done is stress out over that. Not my strongsuit. Just want whatever I choose to have staying power so I don't hate it in 20 years.
OK. That's a mega-post. Thanks for hanging in there - and thank you even more for your time and thought for answering my questions.
Cheers!
ClassicForever
Comments (18)
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How did you prepare/empty your kitchen pre-reno? Any advice?
Comments (22)I couldn't believe how much stuff was in my cabinets. The frames are staying but my GC recommended everything come out because of the dust, etc. To say the least. Everything gets dusty and dirty. I can't imagine leaving things inside during reno. Everything I don't use on a daily basis went out into the garage in boxes. No need to pack like you're moving. Some of that stuff may end up being given away or stored in the garage permanently. There were many things I haven't used in the 12 years I've been in this house, and I question why I'm hanging on to them. Food, utensils, everyday dishes, pots and pans are in boxes in my dining room. I peer into them from time to time and snag a granola bar or tin of smoked trout. My stove and fridge are still in place and work, but my sink and DW aren't connected. I've heated some soup and used the oven once, but prep and cooking really need water close by. My coffee maker and cleanup area is my guest bath. I allowed myself one of everything (plate, bowl, mug, glass, spatula, etc.). I have to remember to wipe all my dishes before washing so no particles of food go down the bathroom drain. My microwave is in my office and I rely on it to heat food for dinner. My cats think it's a great perch. I'm into my third week like this with at least another week to go before my kitchen can start being put back together. I'm surviving. People live their lives in far worse conditions. I think I'm most anxious to be able to get boxes off the floor and clean the place. Everything's dirty and sticky. Good luck with your kitchen! Take a lot of pics....See MoreJust beginning...where to start...Oak kitchen make-over
Comments (9)I like your suggestions, Worldmom (you must have posted just minutes before I posted my earlier post- I hadn't seen yours before I also suggested "paint the cabinets!") I agree about removing the soffit- if possible. If it is needed for structure or ducting, see if its width can be reduced ( "Push" it toward the dining room side, to help widen the room visually.) I love your kitchen redo crafterbeth- it is a wow. Great job. I just wanted to share a couple of thoughts to Steffie2 (been thinking about your kitchen, since it was the last thing I saw before going to sleep!) I haven't seen your entire kitchen, but could you possibly turn the penninsula into an island by removing a few cabinets at the end of the penninsula next to the range? (Or would there be not enough left to create the island if you did that?)You could then relocate one of those removed cabinets next to the range. (And doors from any cabinets you remove could make great end and back panels for cabinets and islands, by the way.) After all, many of those gorgeous kitchens with long islands are often no wider than a galley kitchen--they just are so open on the island side that you don't realize it! (By the way, once you remove the countertop, cabinets are easy to move around--they are usually just screwed to the wall and to each other.) I had another thought about how you could get new cabinets and stay in budget, besides painting: have you considered RTA (ready to assemble) cabinets? I was looking for bathroom vanities recently and found that there are now many places selling these RTA kitchen cabinets at FANTASTIC prices (even cheaper than IKEA!) They look just as gorgeous, at least online, as regular cabinets. I believe that some of them come from China- which may explain the low price. These RTA cabinets do have face- frame construction (unlike IKEA-which some contractors won't install due to the lake of face frames)and plywood sides (a good RTA cabinet has to have the plywood sides because of the way they are constructed--typical stock cabinets have particleboard sides unless you pay extra) I will post a link below for one RTA company below. (Even though I suggested painting the cabinets--I personally would never have the time or energy for such a large project myself!) One other budget tip if you want to squeeze in money for new cabinets (forgive me if you know all this already): Get estimates from small contractors who specialize in things like cabinet installs, and be your own general contractor (hire each specialist yourself: hire your own cabinet installer,electrician, plumber, countertop fabricator, etc.)this saves quite a bit of money, and the contractors seem to be able to give much better prices if they are only responsible for their own work. (General contractors usually charge 20% for being the general, or so I've been told.) I found a HUGE difference in prices between estimates for the cabinet install between the big box store where I bought the cabinets, bigger construction companies, and the little guys. I was even told that I got a better price because I was having the work done in January, when things were slow--something to keep in mind. Also, find out who does the cabinet installs (usually called the "finish carpenters") for a local home developer. They may be willing to do your install job as an extra side job, and the price will be reflect the fact that it isn't their sole source of income! At least that is what I did recently, and the contractor gave me a fantastic price for a minor remodeling job (I needed a custom corner cabinet built and one relocated.)I was willing to be a little flexible with my timing and he told me that he was happy to have an odd job to send his guys to do if they had an a delay or whatever with the developer, and they would have had nothing else to do otherwise! Just some of my musings--I hope it helps. Here is a link that might be useful: RTA kitchen cabinets...See MoreNeed advice - how to begin with budget, simple kitchen upgrade?
Comments (9)Try a post on here for recommendations for KD, Cabinetmaker, Dealer in San Francisco. Make up a budget number- simply how much your comfortable with. You will be get better results if you walk in and say "I want to spend xyz" than simply "I don't want to spend a lot". In any case they have to figure out if they can help you get what you want and meet your budget. Make it clear that the budget is a priority. It is assumed that people hold back 10%. When I shop I don't, and assume that clients don't, but I'm a little different. IF they think what you want is a priority over budget they are likely to come back with a quote that is over budget. Why? Because everyone that walks through the door want more stuff than they want to spend for. So your leaving them with the choice of either not giving you what you want or not meeting your budget. The trick is to get as much of what you want for what you comfortably want to spend. Decide what is important- my favorite is 3 things you need and 3 things you want. It's a great exercise because you have to figure out the difference between the two. Have a target date for when you want to be done. Preferably a few months. Thanksgiving, Christmas, Kwanza, Groundhog day as deadlines are not the best idea. Then find 3 places to try. Call ahead and make an appointment, you will be taken more seriously. Appointments do NOT carry any obligation with them. Bring a dimensioned floor plan with you- it can be crude, the numbers are what matter. You do not need them to do floor plans yet. You may decide to avail yourself of the help here even if your not DIY. See what they offer, let THEM tell you what and how they do this. What can they offer to meet your budget. Try to look at it as fun, makes it easier. You are just shopping- NO commitment until you are comfortable. Concentrate on gauging who you are working with- what brand is secondary. It's kind of like dating- it can be fun, awful, tedious, absolutely hysterical, eventually you find someone to spend some time with and have a few laughs. The bad news is you don't get a free dinner, the good news ...your not going to marry any of them....See MoreGut kitchen reno -- under $30k?
Comments (21)I have a prewar NYC apartment, and spend about $36,000 in 2004. $16,000 was labor, including electrical (3 new circuits), moving a door, installing soffits, only a LITTLE bit of plaster work. Ripping out the floor down to the beams and leveling. Installing cabients & flooring. All the rest was pretty economical in choice: sheet vinyl floor, not-too-expensive appliances (the biggest splurge: a $650 OTR convection/micro). $7,500 for cabinets; splurged on a Corian counter for $1,500. I'd hoped to be $30k or under, and did not succeed, quite. Not when I counted the extras like faucet and knobs (there was a big splurge: $450) I don't think you need to go all the way down to the studs (w/ prewar, you may not even be ABLE to go that far down; the solid plaster walls make it difficult) I spent much less than you on appliances. And if money is tight, I believe that is the place to save, because they are easily swapped out (except for fridges, but they die every 11 years anyway) DW: I spent $450; if money is tight, I'd go even cheaper here. They'll all fit in a 24" space. I spent $600 on a gas range, and got power burner, simmer burner, huge oven. I can't imagine getting a range w/ more BTUs, esp. not in an apartment w/ weird venting. You may not be able to vent outside, depending on your co-op's views, so don't get all excited about a powerful range until you know how that will work. I have a $600 fridge, and I *wish* I had a $400 one. I think your electrical and plumbing are a little high--but as I said, mine were part of the mix, so maybe I'm not as up-to-speed as you are. You can't move much around in an prewar apartment bldg--the sink can move about 3 feet away from the spot where the drain enters the wall, that's all. Custom: Check out Piros Custom Furniture in Astoria--they bid $5,700 for my 11x7 kitchen, which I thought was pretty good; it would have included installation. Ikea's another great choice; the kitchen I took out was Ikea, and we nearly went w/ them again. Not sure exactly why we didn't. You're going to need a licensed GC, w/ adequate insurance, because your co-op board will require it. You can't do the electrical yourself, probably for the same reason, I'm betting. But you can get awfully close....See More
ClassicForever
6 years agoFloor plans:
House
Kitchen detail
IKEA plan link: Open the design
Hillside house - we weren't planning on much plumbing - just reconnecting the new sink and moving the fridge water line. Definitely DIY. Electrical - we are capable of doing everything we need done, but will probably hire out because we're already planning on doing the cabinets and flooring ourselves.
I thought about the G-shape kitchen, and that was definitely a great option for my real-life pal known as Owlface on Houzz. Her kitchen is something like 3' narrower and 6' longer than mine, so it was a good mood for her to remove her island. For this square-ish kitchen, making it a G would be pretty tough. That sink wall is 10'2" long. And I do LOVE my island.
There are a lot of things that work pretty well in my kitchen. Warning, my house was clean yesterday...it is not now.
It is actually just fine to put dishes away, and I don't expect it to get worse when the island changes from doors to drawers. The dishwasher is offset 9" from the cabinet above, and even my 7yo can put mugs away. The rest of the dishes are stored in the island. One of my few mom wins I will publicly celebrate: my kids started putting away clean dishes before they could read.
The bonus with having the dishwasher so near the kitchen table is that the countertop above it is a natural landing ground for dirty dinner dishes.
There is 16" of clearance between the open dishwasher and the island. Even if the bottom drawer of the island can't open all the way, the ones above it would be able to open fully-wide. That's where we keep plates and bowls, and I don't think that will change much with the new kitchen.
MrMitchell347, you asked if I had issues when something is open. What did you mean, the fridge or the oven? Here are a couple more pictures of line-of-sight in my kitchen. My floor is a convenient 1'x1' grid for handy scale reference.
The fridge location isn't totally awful. When you open the fridge, you aren't backed up against the island. It's a pinch point for sure but kids at their current size can still squeeze through to escape outside. In a few years when staring into the fridge becomes a pastime and the kids are bigger, it will be more of a pain. If we move it to the other end of that wall, near the dining table, the dinner time process of loading the table with milk, baby carrots, ketchup, ranch dressing, etc. will be easier, but it will also concentrate a lot of traffic right next to the main hallway into the kitchen, and could divert traffic around the sink side of the island which would annoy me to no end. Basically it just moves the pinch point and traffic from one location to another.
I'd love to open up this wall into the dining room but
a) I don't want to make the fridge wall shorter
b) there is an HVAC return duct behind the fridge that serves half of the upstairs. I haven't found a good solution to route it into the basement anywhere else.
If we move the fridge to where the clutter-catching desk is, (will all the clutter simply disappear??) there is not the free-and-clear aisle in front of it that it has now. Plus, I was planning on extending the island from 56" to 60". Judging by my graph-paper floor there is about 2' of clearance. If I put the fridge here (t will stick out about a foot further than that desk area does) I'd have to live with it backing up to the island a little bit, or I'd have to actually make my island shorter.
The fridge won't fit on the wall with the stove, and I don't have a double-oven. I thought about it, but our stove is pretty new and nice, and the work triangle is pretty good the way it is. MrMitchell347 it sounds like your layout might have a few twists and turns that create more challenges than I have.
As for IKEA...initially I was skeptical too. My pal Owlface put IKEA in her kitchen. We both live in the same neighborhood which is not a vinyl-floor-laminate-counter type of place (well, not anymore. Clearly it was in 1983). I was really surprised when she did it. She talked me through her reasoning and it was pretty solid. She has more kids and they are home more than mine are and after 2 years there isn't a single scratch on those white doors. I did some research online, and they really are a good bang for the buck with some serious quality built in. Oh, and besides. It's about $7500 for the cabinets (not including appliances). I didn't seek out a kitchen planner because I've priced out some cheap stuff at Menards and it couldn't hold a candle to IKEA, and our layout is pretty darn good the way it is - all I'm considering relocating is the fridge.
Almost forgot.
We do have a formal dining room, and I'd like it to stay that way. We use it for actual eating about 6-12 times per year, and that will double in the next 10 years as we come of age and our parents age out of the family-gathering hosting duties. It's nice to be able to seat 20 for dinner, and I don't want to give that up. The room also serves like 5 other purposes, so I wouldn't want to take over the informal eating area with more cabinets and push regular eating into the formal dining room. Plus, I like eating next to that big bay window and our dining room is a dark hole.
That's a really long post. Hope it contains some good information for you. I really appreciate the thoughts.
ClassicForever
6 years agoClassicForever
6 years ago
Michelle
6 years ago
mandy_moo_pants
6 years ago
Nicole Shields Design
6 years agoWe had a kitchen similar to yours and we went with Ikea cabinets.
BEFORE
BEFORE
AFTER
AFTER
Brenda
6 years ago
designideas4me
6 years agoMichelle
6 years ago
Classic - I finally took pictures so you can see what I am talking about with the dishwasher. I don’t think it matters since you are pretty sure you aren’t doing a U or G shape.Michelle
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoAnd here is what the spot that gets congested looks like. I am anxious to see your after photos!
On the right side: pantry door, doorway to formal dining room, fridge and a coat closet. Half-bath is what you see at the end then to the left leads to the laundry room and garage.
ClassicForever thanked Michelle
sheloveslayouts
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoIf your bay window is cantilevered out and not holding up a second floor bay... Would you rather have island seating than a breakfast nook? It would be a much bigger project, of course.
It looks like you may have the room for it. I've proposed this for other folks and this image is the first example I found. In your case, the range and the clean up sink would trade places, so you you might see the range flanked by windows from the front door instead of your pretty table and windows.
Just thought I'd toss this out there...
ClassicForever thanked sheloveslayoutsClassicForever
6 years agoClassicForever
6 years agoMichelle
6 years ago
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