Two of my unicorn roses: Nimet and a lavender cabbage looking rose. Helen

Nimet: perfect in its imperfection!

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.293443

I’ve seen pictures of cabbage roses... is there an actual name or are they just cabbage roses?

Natalie, there is a rose with the name “Cabbage Rose” on HMF http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.895&tab=1 , and it has the look of a cabbage. So if it is mentioned in lower case letters then I think it just means any roses with a cabbage look, and that is what I meant. Helen

Erasmus Rogue Valley has Plaisanterie in stock :). And for you Augusta Louise peeps - look at Palatine’s Sunset Dreams. It’s close...... Augusta wouldn’t survive here, so it’s a substitute.

Ready for the rose history mini lesson? Traditionally the term "Cabbage Rose" is meant when referring to the centifolia class. If you look at pictures of the larger blooming centifolias, particularly the ones with some china ancestry, the description becomes more obvious. Check out pictures of centifolias like Paul Ricault. Artists often depicted these roses in paintings, such as John William Waterhouse's work. His The Soul of the Rose is a great example of a cabbage rose form in art. I'm sure there are some spectacular still life examples too.

The Cabbage Rose specifically (linked above) is the progenitor (as far as we can figure, anyhow) of the class. I love, love, love this rose, and have it in my garden. Over the years, the term cabbage rose has come to stand for roses with big, full, cupped shapes, even if they aren't actual centifolias. Paul Neyron is famous for being referred to as a cabbage rose, even though it is a HP, not a centifolia.

Erasmus, I would love to give you my
Plaisanterie. I grew it from a tiny band. Boy did it grow! It has many octopus arms that reach out to snag the unwary, and me on my lawn tractor. It is not a bloom machine and the ones it has are small and insignificant. Every year I cut it down nearly to the ground - back it comes. Every year I plan to move it to some out of the way place where it can grow wild, but never get around to it. I don't think you are missing out on much by not having this rose, but would be glad to send you cuttings if you like. They will probably root en route in the mail!

Judith

Thank you, Karen, for your explanation! I have admired the cabbage shape and wondered about these details for awhile. I love that this forum puts us in touch with people who know these answers! :-)

Well, mine was Crep! I know most of you remember how desperately I wanted this rose!!! I am on a budget, so I tried to buy shrub roses first, to fill in our empty yard. I would google her and just imagine how gorgeous she would be on my fence...(google is the devil when it comes to roses!!!) I finally placed an order and they were out!! UGH! Then, the rose Gods smiled down on me when my lovely friends here, pointed out that they had one back in stock!! It was crazy! I guess it was from a canceled order, but who cares. I got her last fall and I still get chills when I look at pictures...She is looking great in her pot, but may be in it a while...looks like the hubby and I are moving back to the country. We are gonna build on about 3 acres. A small empty nest home...Oh, I can't wait!

Judith, I've been wanting Plaisanterie since Christopher mentioned it as a smaller substitute for Mutabilis. Sorry to see it's not doing well for you as I never read of anyone else growing it. Oh well.

The rose grows great for me......its just not the bloomer I hoped it would be. Matter of fact, grows too much! Its in full sun, has had composted manure put on it - maybe I need to fertilize more. With Mutablis as a parent, I expected more bloom, like the photos on Helpmefind. Its very healthy - just want to see more bloom - and the blooms are quite small - smaller than they look in the photos.

Judith

Mine is 'Heinrich Wendland,' which seems to be available only in Europe and maybe Australia. But it's worth lusting after, don't you think?

The Unicorn rose so elusive for me in my searches that I've desired for years despite potential climate incompatibility?

Hmm. I suppose, and odd as it may seem, were/are moderns from earlier years. Varieties would include: Charlotte Armstrong, Crimson Glory, Ena Harkness, Sutter's Gold, and older types like Eclair and Emily Gray!

Charlotte Armstrong has been my longest sought followed by Crimson Glory.

Luckily, I have these two coming from Roses Unlimited this year!

Steven

Steve, I got Cl. Crimson Glory from ARE and its flowers look and smell amazing. I'm esxpecting good things once she goes in the ground.

Dianapasadena, HW is show-stoppingly pretty, and I don't even LIKE orange roses, lol.

Mine are mostly things not avaialbe in Australia like Goldbusch and Applejack.

Mcnastarana I never heard from you about a baby Arcata Pink Globe. Do you still have one for me? I'm not even sure if your still on the forum or not, but I sure hope you are and get in touch! Hope to hear from you.

I’m am still trying to find an Annie Laurie McDowell...my mom, the family genealogist, confirmed that we are related to this line of McDowells (her maiden name) so not only am I trying to find the rose, but I’m trying to find out how it got it’s name. Do any of you that have it know it’s story, or does anyone know? Did I read that this one of Kim’s roses, or am I mixing it up with another? I can’t seem to find it on HMF either. Many thanks! :-)

Permanent, ALMD is indeed Kim’s rose and is on HMF. The story of the lady she is named after is written in one of the older pages of the comments section. Lisa

PS. Perma, there’s a LOT of interest and demand for ALMD. I have a STRONG feeling some nursery will be offering ALMD in the near future. It would be a wise move, given how many people want her. Just keep your eyes and ears open:). Lisa

Thank you so much Lisa! This time, I was able to find it. I think I have some trouble with the search engine being on my phone sometimes. I’ll keep em peeled! :-)

Karen, if you are still checking this forum you should know that Palatine has centifolia Bullata right now. Someone on the other rose forum tipped me off. If John sees this they also have a rose they have labeled as Panachee de Lyon, but make no mention of varied colors so maybe it is something else?

Thanks! I saw they have a rose under that name but also wondered whether it was the real thing. Only one way to find out, right? I appreciate you giving me a heads up!

Alameda,

Thank you for your offer of cuttings of Plaisanterie...I just now saw your post . I think I'll pass on this one after all as it sounds like it would take up a lot of room. I did end up getting Augusta Louise which has done well, and Alain Blanchard. AB has been a very puny plant so far with no vigor. Very disappointing. I had one other spotted one a long time ago, Ma Ponctuee, and it too was a weak plant.

Mine is Cometesse de Rocquigny. I have been trying to acquire this rose for years!Greenmantle still propagates it, but there is a waitlist several years long. She stated today that she was only able to propagate one this past season!!

David Austin's Chaucer. One of the early ones that's been "replaced."

Mine is "William III" spinosissima. I left my Vintage plant in Alaska when I moved South, and have never found another one.

Any new ones here? Comtesse de Rocquigny is one of mine, too @Kelly Tregaskis Collova--it'd be nice if more people carried it!

The Aspirin Rose, Cl. Perle d'Or (if it repeats) and Cl. Marie Pavie.

Just as a follow up- my two unicorns I searched for the longest time for I finally had obtained from RU.
They were Charlotte Armstrong and Crimson Glory.
They both died the very first winter.
Silly me, I'm trying again with Crimson Glory grafted this time, and on multiflora from Hortico (they took the deposit back in January and I'm still waiting for the final payment to show).

I must have a problem for trying again... shhh ;-)

Steven

@Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley for Aspirin Rose, it looks like the cut rose is called Glacier Magic--it's out of patent so you could probably buy some cut roses and root them? That's the only one of those you guys have mentioned I've thought someone could do that with. Other roses where I've considered that approach are Pompon Veranda ('Pashmina' when it's a cut rose) and I think it's out of patent as well, but I'm sure @chris2486 will chime in if it isn't.

@Karen Jurgensen (Zone 4 MN) I see Psyche listed at Greenmantle Nursery without an asterisk. Marissa's a bit old school in that you print off an order form and send it in with a check or cash deposit, and she doesn't do online ordering/email/social media, but she's lovely and called me back the same day when I inquired about ones that *were* asterisked :p Did you ever find Psyche?

Aaron, did Greenmantle say whether the ones with asterisks would ever be available again?

@K S 7b Little Rock (formerly of Seattle) Marissa at Greenmantle said the asterisks are truly being held off and to check back next year (which to me means in 6 months or so!). Make sure you check the HMF of any varieties you like, as well as the description and comments for "synonyms" and other names they might be in commerce as. I find that putting the rose name into google, looking at images, and then seeing if it's in or out of stock (and when out of stock, emailing/calling to ask) has been a great way of finding roses I want.

Yeah, I ask because Comtesse de Rocquigny has been with an asterisk for at least five years. I wondered if they were ever going to offer it again.

completely get it. I'm really hoping others will carry it. I know Peter Schneider has one but he's mentioned it's too young to propagate from. Maybe it'd graft well (or better) than cuttings do? That aside I know Angel Gardens and Rose Petals Nursery have a lot of OGRs, maybe they'd be worth asking?

I have checked with them. There is one nursery that carries it, but the waiting list is like 5 years long. I believe it’s Greenmantle?

I don't know why they wouldn't just bud graft a ton of them and then let people figure out how to own root them if that's their preference. That to me seems like an effective way to increase quantity (and revenue)

if it's large enough, Peter will sometimes graft to multiflora. It's worth asking. This may not be something he normally offers but he did offer it last year when all of the Augusta Louise were killed back by Frost. I was offered a plant grafted to multi-floor but I decided to wait until this fall to get one on Route. Not sure if that was the best decision but oh well.

some of my new unicorns are:

Farside de Mills

Rook

Nightmoss (which I got once but it didn't survive the year at my mom's)

Lindsay's Rose

Duchesse de Montebello (which I got once but it didn't survive the year at my mom's)

all of these are listed as out of stock at RVR :(

A most elusive unicorn is a subtle orange climber called Metanoia which HMF lists as "bred by unknown before 2000". https://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.33316 I found it at a garden centre in Ontario some 15 years ago and it followed me home. I could find out nothing about it. I only had it for a short time before I moved to Houston. and I've been unable to locate it here at all. It doesn't seem to be sold in the US (tho a google search turns it up in the UK).

Sighted in the US, but perpetually out of stock in the places that sell it is Annie Laurie Mcdowell. Pam Greenwald says she has a waiting list for it, though it is perhaps too long to make me one in my lifetime. Ditto for Evelyn which is perpetually out of stock at Austin roses here and also everywhere else, no longer sold by Heirloom.

I also have Plaisanterie. It is bigger, faster growing, less biddable than Mutabilis, throwing 10-12 foot canes every which way. I don't have the space to let spread out but I've succeeded in coaxing it upwards, partly by supporting it on a six foot obelisk that is obviously too flimsy for it (but the lower canes are quite thick by now so is unlikely to fall down), partly by whacking off the lower shoots so it arches out and spreads above my head into a sort of umbrella shape aimed at the sun. I cannot agree that the flowers are insignificant, I think they are mind-bendingly beautiful, but siting it properly is admittedly difficult. It was not very productive when small as it does need a lot of light, but it is currently sporting a canopy of fine beautiful foliage dotted with dreamy starlike single flowers. I love it, tho am a little afraid of it too-- like having a playful pet lion in the yard. Will trade cuttings if anyone would like to try it. Agree with Judith they'll likely root in the mail.

CLIMBING DOUBLE DELIGHT (climbing hybrid tea, John Nieuwesteeg, Australia, 1982) - bright red swirled with creamy white. POWERFUL spicy fragrance. I swear if I were filthy rich then I would charter a private jet to Australia, take cuttings, then smuggle them back into the States. THAT is how much I want this unattainable rose.

@starmade evelyn is long out of patent, and I've found it for sale multiple places this year. I'm sure someone will carry it!

I chase an ever vanishing mirage of Evelyn; always for sale, just never available in the moment I happen to be looking for it; always definitely available next season, or back in stock soon, or available to reserve (but not right this minute). But I hope the stars will line up eventually.

I would like to try Plaisanterie Starmade. Let me know ;)

' Etoile de Lyon' is my unicorn love. It is my favorite hue of yellow and the scent is delicious, A floriferous rose, with attractive foliage. For ten years I've wanted one to plant in the center of my front yard, in the 'pride of place setting. of a circle of Tea rosebushes.

I finally gave up and planted a "Lady Hillingdon' I'd grown from a sucker I found in Luannes garden and planted it there, instead. Once in a blue moon a Tea rosebush will sucker and one can just dig it up and have a 1-2 foot tall plant on its' own roots, immediately.

'Boule de Neige' is another. rose, I longed for, to place on either side of my front door. I mentioned not being able to find one and a good friend asked me what color it was and I told her and she very kindly went out shopping and within a few days proudly presented me with a bag of 'Iceberg' . I think of her whenever it's in bloom, which is often.

I ended up with 'Grandmothers Hat' from Annies Annuals and Perrenials. by my front door and I'm pleased to say I don't wish it was B de N. at all.

Lux.

Where are you from? There are a couple US sellers of the roses you listed... rose petals nursery and angel gardens often have them in stock....

I've definitely seen Boule de Neige, I think either ARE or High Country Roses had it

I think I got my Etoile de Lyon from rosepetals. Wonderful rose here.

Cherry Brandy. II actually got one to root from a bouquet but I had to leave it when it was tiny due to a family member that needed care and it died. My family member recovered though so that’s what’s important.

My unicorn rose for the last few years has been Bobbie James. Is it not available anywhere because it is a dud?

@noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque) From all I've ever heard, Bobby James is a wonderful rose. But it IS a house eater. I wonder if it's so vigorous that it rapidly outgrows a ship-able size? It might be a matter of timing it between, "OK, it has rooted" to "wow, that won't fit in a box", lol. Of course the rose could be pruned, but that's another step in the "shipping and handling" that's not necessary for most other roses. I'm sure the reason it's scarce is NOT that it's hard to propagate. It is a hybrid wichurana, which tend to root very easily. But it could just be that there's not historically been enough demand for it. Nurseries grow the roses they can sell.

P.S. For anyone who is reading the whole thread, I DID get my Prairie Peace, and it's going to be spectacular. This last Spring (2022) was its third here, and it had at least 30-40 flowers, and it's becoming a more graceful shrub with time. Worth.Every.Penny. (And it was a LOT of pennies, lol)

EDIT: I just checked HMF, and supposedly Roses Unlimited carries Bobby James. I checked, and it's listed on the website. You'd have to call to see if she really has it this year.