My beautiful Whitehaus fireclay farm sink (above) was broken last week. I’ve always said that if I get a new kitchen/house, I will get a sink with an offset drain, and maybe one not so deep.

Well I don’t have a new kitchen, but I do need a new sink. Yesterday, as this one is in pieces. I like the Kohler Whitehaven (tall apron 9”) because of the offset drain. Reviews seem to consistently mention how it easily scratches. From the specs, it seems like the inner bowl is a full 3” shorter (less wide) than mine. And the front apron is about an inch shorter in height. So I would have to install a new wood front to hide the gaps. The Whitehaven is also ~40 lbs heavier.

I could simply replace my sink with the exact same model I have now. It does bother me a little to chase the dirt around and around with the faucet to push it all towards the center drain. My sink could be a little more comfortable if the faucet were able to be mounted closer to the sink center. There might be less splashing (would there be?) if the water stream hits the sink instead of the drain area. Our disposal is a batch feed (so I have to push the cover on the drain with my hand). Would that be a pain back there in the corner?

If you have the Whitehaven, does it really scratch easily? My Whitehaus has only a couple of little hardly noticeable scratches and we don’t use a grid. Do you think the Whitehaven would look right/good in my kitchen? The style is different from what I currently have. Or should I just stick with another Whitehaus?

Thoughts?

TL;DR: Kohler Whitehaven vs Whitehaus Quatro Alcove in my current kitchen? Go.

I put a Whitehaven in my in-progress forever remodel. I was leery of a fireclay sink because of others here who complained about cracking issues and garbage disposals. I was not a fan of the sloped front inside the bowl of the Kohler sink but find myself resting my arms on it when I wash/scrub things. It is a gorgeous sink to me.

Installation of the Whitehaven is 10x easier than a unpredictability sized must be precisely scribed fireclay. That saves $500-$700 right there.

I absolutely love my Whitehaven! With three kids it’s been in near constant use for the two months since installation and I’m happy to say it cleans very easily and no scratches! I don’t baby it at all, but I do have grids in the bottom which I love for being able to let dishes drip dry.

I also love my Whitehaven. I have had mine for 2 years - looks as good as new. I do not find that it gets any permanent scratches easily. It does get metal scratches from dropped silverware or pie tins and such which are easily removed with cleanser. I bought the grids about a year ago and this has almost eliminated any metal scratches - except one small one that is cause by the grid - go figure:) It comes off with Comet, but it is hidden by the grid, so I don't worry about it. I have the 36" single bowl which has two grids - this makes cleaning under them very easy - small enough to pick up and wipe up when needed. There is also a large enough area around the drain that is not covered so food does not get stuck in the grids. I also like the grids because it is a deep sink, and they raise the bottom an inch.

Also, I am not a carpenter, but you might be able to make up the 1" difference by doing a drip rail - though I have not had problems dripping with my Whitehaven. The Whitehaven has a self facing apron - why it is so easy to install, so not sure if a drip rail would work with it, but it is a thought. The sides of the apron would still need to cover the old cut out:

Drip rail - but not a Whitehaven:

Another Whitehaven fan here. We've had no scratching issues over the last almost-two years but do use the grids. Like you, we have a batch feed disposal, and I've never considered the reach to be a problem. Getting a big, single bowl sink with an offset drain was one of the best takeaways (among many) from my Gardenweb discovery, and I think you'll love all the storage possibilities once you get the plumbing over to one side. Like rantontoo, I wasn't a fan of the sloped front wall, worrying that putting the dishes a few inches further away would negate a benefit of an apron front sink, but I can't say that I've noticed or thought about that again until just now.

This will be a DIY install so saving $500-700 for scribing is not an issue. Replacing and painting a new front board will be a pain regardless. I like the idea of possibly using a drip rail - that might work!

And we won't use grids at all. We tried it initially with this sink and we hated all the crud that would gather under it and the sink always seemed dirty and it was a pain to clean. So no grids.

Tell me more about this "sloping front wall" in the Whitehaven. Do you have a pic to share to show what you mean? I didn't know this was a thing.

Slightly OT, but how did your sink break? It seems it was still fairly new.

Our previous sink was an enamel on cast iron double bowl (American Standard) installed in 2006. When we sold our house last year, it had minimal wear and no permanent marks. There were some small marks you could see when the light reflected a certain way (almost like etches), but that was it. I found the best way to clean it was to fill it up with hot water and add a scoop of oxi clean. That gets the drain sparkly clean, too.

I'm going with a Whitehaven in our new build.

Here are some pics of the inside of my sink. I think it would be best to see one in person because a picture can distort perspective when taken up close. I find the slant is the same angle as my arms reaching into the sink and I have never been bothered by it. My sink seems huge to me even with the slant.

nosoccermom - It was totally not any fault of the sink ;-( It was the victim of a completely unrelated moment of insanity (ahem - it got in the way of an angry flying pizza board).

jhmarie - thank you for the photos! Your sink looks so nice! And your grids are stainless which is probably easier to clean. So, how wide (deep? front to back) is the actual bottom of the sink then?

Also, I've heard that buying a Kohler Whitehaven from a big box store (they have some at HD) means you might get one of less quality than buying from Kohler or somewhere else. Is there any validity in this? I don't mind getting it elsewhere; but it would be super convenient to just pop over to HD and pick one up.

These sinks break. The next one will too. Get the sink that’s easiest to replace. In fact, buy two of them. Or go stainless and never have to think about or pay for this again!

Kohler Whitehaven! I've sold dozens and never had a call back!

My sink is 15" across the grid from front to back.

If the serial number is the same, the product is the same. Some companies like Delta make very good faucets that are bought through a plumbing supply store, and less expensive faucets (with more plastic parts) through a home center store - they will have different serial numbers even if similar in outward appearance. I have noticed that Home Depot does carry some of the higher end faucets and sinks. I bought my sink through build.com because there is not Home Depot in my area.

eam44 - toilets are porcelain and some bathroom sinks, but kitchen sinks are not plain porcelain. The Whitehaus that broke was fireclay, an admittedly, it did not break under normal wear and tear:) The Whitehaven is enameled cast iron. I have never heard of a good cast iron sink breaking - though some have received them broken - something happened in shipping or the sink was defective. The enamel can chip, exposing the cast iron below. Kohler has a warranty against that happening - but I assume a good clobber with a cast iron skillet might chip the sink. The enamel can get micro abrasions over time causing it to stain more easily and need to be cleaned more often. The grids help prevent that. I have a friend with a cast iron sink well over 50 years old (the sink, not the friend.)

Jh,

First of all, Fireclay sinks are porcelain sinks. I know this can be confusing, but google a bit, read the literature, and it eventually becomes clearer. If I weren’t a tile aficionado I wouldn’t have a clue. The distinction lies in the definition of the word “porcelain” which is more inclusive than most people realize.

Second, my current sink is 50+ years old and is stainless. Wanna bet which of our sinks will still be in perfect condition after 50 more years? Your friend’s sink is unusually long lived. Mine isn’t. The OPs certainly isn’t.

Stainless is the most durable and enduring material for a sink. Even if your Kohler is warrantied, they do not pay the cost of lifting your counters and replacing the broken sink, which will cost you more than the replacement sink. The counters in the OPs kitchen appear to be wood, but in homes where the counters are made of precious stone, the risk of lifting and possibly damaging the slabs is all the owner’s.

Honestly, replacing a sink that broke on you with the same material, knowing it will eventually break again seems beyond silly to me. But then I value function and durability over appearance, and I know most people don’t. If the OP want to continue the cycle, why shouldn’t she? At least she now knows there are better options than repeating old mistakes.

The funniest thing about this thread is that I can’t stop thinking about Jerry Seinfeld and his chopsticks joke. “I’ll tell you what I like about Chinese people … They’re hanging in there with the chopsticks, aren’t they? You know they’ve seen the fork.“

Well now you’ve seen the fork. It’s a stainless steel apron sink.

It is a good thing people have different likes because otherwise we would all have the same kitchen. I've had stainless steel in the past and did not like it. I am happy that you love your stainless sink. I am not in a contest for the longest lived sink - just pointing out that cast iron can last a long time. I will probably be gone long before many surfaces in my home - and then I won't care one bit about my sink:)

Many articles, including this one from Houzz, separate Fireclay from Porcelain. I realize that other articles may classify them together. They are related.

https://www.houzz.com/magazine/everything-you-need-to-know-about-farmhouse-sinks-stsetivw-vs~43608121

This article too:

https://www.qualitybath.com/discover/post/14533/fireclay-sinks-everything-you-need-to-know

What is a fireclay sink made of?

(This question’s equally popular cousin: is fireclay the same as porcelain, just marketed under a fancy name?)

Every fireclay sink is meticulously handmade from a special white clay found only in certain regions of the world (including Italy, Israel, and Limoges, France). The clay is carefully mixed with water, poured into molds, and dried in humidity-controlled rooms. It is then hand-glazed and fired at over 2100° Fahrenheit, the temperature of liquid volcanic magma, while being monitored. At this intense temperature, the clay and glaze fuse together and create an entirely new material, one that is nonporous, strong, dense, and the most heat- and damage-resistant sink material available.

Porcelain may look similar to fireclay (and almost always comes at a lower price), but it’s less durable as the simpler clay is heated at a lower temperature during the manufacturing process; it’s more prone to chips, scratches, and discoloration than fireclay. One benefit of porcelain over fireclay: it’s available in colors other than white and off-white.

Eam, you bring up some great points about durability vs choosing what you love. If I put something in my house that I don’t absolutely love, then it doesn’t matter how long it lasts.... in fact it’s worse if it lasts a long time because then I won’t have an excuse to replace it and I’ll be stuck with it forever!!!! But at the same time if something really beautiful becomes very worn or damaged in a relatively short period of time then it’s not going to be beautiful anymore.

It’s really a personal decision where your priorities lie, but I have found the Whitebaven to be a perfect compromise between aesthetics and durability. If someone wants a white apron sink, then even the most bulletproof stainless sink just isn’t going to work.

jenswrens, good luck with your replacement! Also, I would encourage you to give the grids a chance if you go with the Whitehaven. I understand there are drainage issues with the fireclay sinks that might’ve contributed to the bottom of the sink being dirty under the grids. Sometimes I have to pick them up to clean, but typically I just give a spray around the bowl and everything goes right into the drain basket.

I'm glad I saw this as I was seriously considering this sink. Unfortunately I have to agree with eam44 - to a degree. If I had enough free floating cash to replace it if/when it breaks I'd get one in a heartbeat since I love the look. A compromise for me is a ceramic drop in sink. Not the same I know but I really have my heart set on white. And if it breaks I won't risk my counter and it won't break the bank.

Kristen, this is en entire thread of people attesting to how happy they are with the Kohler Whitehaven, which is a cast iron sink. There is one person who does not own a Whitehaven who is pushing the durability of stainless. The OP’s broken sink is a Whitehaus, which is fireclay. It is a totally different material.

threelittlelights13, thanks for letting me know that. I was reading the thread before my morning coffee. I really want a farmhouse sink.

I am so sorry if I came across harshly! I was without my morning coffee too!!! I just would never want to be the reason someone didn’t purchase a Whitehaven!!!

"Also, I've heard that buying a Kohler Whitehaven from a big box store (they have some at HD) means you might get one of less quality than buying from Kohler or somewhere else. Is there any validity in this?"

No. This is a myth perpetrated by small mom 'n pop vendors who can't buy in the quantities of the big boxes and subsequently can't sell as cheaply. The idea that Kohler speeds up the line and uses inferior materials to make cheaper sinks for big boxes is silly. When you can't compete on price on commodities, make up lies, apparently.

"Even if your Kohler is warrantied, they do not pay the cost of lifting your counters and replacing the broken sink, which will cost you more than the replacement sink."

I replace sinks for a living and have replaced at least a hundred undermounts in stone and estone. I've yet to have to lift a countertop to replace a sink. You tap the cabinet front off (5th and 10th picture down), place the sink, reinstall the cabinet front, and install the sink.

Solid surface? Yes, I'll cut the top and pull it occasionally.

I couldn’t do enamel (whitehaven) after having fireclay. We considered it for this house, after having fireclay in the last. (Thanks for your detailed DIY install photos, btw!)

The cast iron just felt... weird. I don’t even know how to explain it. But my husband, who was really excited about the easier install, completely changed his mind after seeing it in person. And I forgot about the sloped front until it was mentioned here, but we hated that, too.

I would go to a showroom and check it out in person before making any decisions.

Thank you everyone! Hearing your experiences has really helped. Seems the Whitehaven is highly recommended for various reasons.

I appreciate eam44's perspective, but I really really don't want a stainless sink, fork or no fork.

The Whitehaus would be the easiest to do - just replace the sink with no additional work. The Whitehaven will require new wood supports, rearranging plumbing, new front cabinet board (or drip rail), but I think we are going to go ahead and go for it based on your reviews.

GenniferB - I've had enameled cast iron in the past and I've loved the feel. I just worry about durability. I'm not even sure where I could find a Whitehaven on display to go look at, but that's a good idea. I'd like to see it in person.

@jhmarie - One more question, if you don't mind: What is the measurement of the inside cutout of your counter from the edge of countertop to where it begins to curve around the back of the sink (red line below)?

Yesterday, we finally got around to going to a showroom to see the Whitehaven in person. I really liked it. However, I had originally thought that I would be able to pull the sink forward, thus bringing the faucet closer. But because of the way it butts up to the cabinet (shown here)...

...it doesn't seem like it can be pulled forward at all (there would be a gap at the side of cab).

And turns out it is deeper than my sink (front to back) which I think would mean the faucet has to be pushed even further back. And even harder for me to reach. Unless I'm mis-thinking this.

Whitehaven:

And my sink is less deep:

So.... this means that my faucet will be even further away from me than it is now. Right?? Or am I missing something?

jenswrens:

Pulling the sink forward doesn't change the faucet position because the faucet must come forward with the sink. The sink front/faucet position is set by the sink itself, no matter where the sink is positioned.

You are right in that you cannot pull the sink forward or there would be a gap since it self faces to the front of the cabinet. The measurement you asked for is approximately 20". The center of the faucet hole to the edge of the apron is about 23". The measurement of my faucet lever to the apron edge is about 19.5".

I am a short person (5'1") and I have no problem reaching my faucet. I do have my faucet lever pulled to the front - see the pic. You can do that with most faucets, though do check if you are thinking of doing that. I did that to have water drip into the sink rather than on the counter, not because I was worried about reaching it. Others have touchless faucets.

My old sink is in my basement kitchenette. I measured the distance from the faucet to the counter edge and got 20.5".

https://www.houzz.com/photos/my-pics-work-in-progress-phvw-vp~65270573

So maybe I was overthinking it. Thankyou jhmarie for those measurements. It really helped, especially your measurement from the center of faucet hole to edge of apron. If I measure my current sink, it is 22" from center of faucet hole to outer edge of sink. So looks like it would only add 1" to my reach. And obviously we'll need to replace (or recut) the counter, but we've been needing to do that for a while now anyway.

"This will be a DIY install..."

Dang. You got guts. I bid my first retrofit short apron Whitehaven this week at $2,900.00; sink; sink cut out, profile, and polish; faucet; and plumbing included. It intimidated me a bit, and I've done this 50 times or so.

Good luck. Give me a ring if you need to.

I have been reading this entire thread and really want the short apron kohler but no one can get these since there was a fire at kohler in Jan and lead time is many months out. Has anyone ever bought the whitehaven online and had trouble? There's a handful of them available in limited colors and sizes but I don't want to wait a year for a sink

I bought mine online at build.com. Joe, the countertop / sink expert says he was told 45 days on getting a Kohler sink - so not sure what the real time is.

Elkay has also recently come out with a short apron size. I don't think it is cast iron - fireclay or quartz - and I don't know anything about it, but they are a good company.

Thanks for your response, did you buy this recently? As of yesterday I was told (build.com) they were completely out of all kohler whitehaven sinks and it could be 6 months before they get any more. I like the look of fireclay as well but I've heard not so good things about how well they hold up and that their measurements can be off.

I bought mine 2 years ago - just letting you know that the online purchase went well. The Elkay I was thinking of is quartz - but I can't find it in a short apron. I thought someone said it came short apron, but I must have misunderstood.

You can also have your cabinet altered for a "tall apron" - then the Elkay might work, but I have no idea how "quartz" as a sink material holds up. There are some other companies that make cast iron farm sinks - they appear to be the more traditional, harder to install type. While my Whitehaven was pricy, it is easier to install so a money saver there, and no need to change out or alter the sink base cabinet - another money saver.

I ended up putting off my remodel a few months just to save up for the Whitehaven:)

If you have a functioning kitchen and are just doing counters, sink and backsplash, which is what I did, then you might just wait a month and see if anything changes. Joe does lots of sink change outs and was told 45 days by his supplier. I am sure no one want to tell people it is going to be soon, and then have to take it back. I do really like my sink:)