I love seed starting and do not want to be discouraging, but
I am not sure that this will work for you for several reasons. The biggest
problem is that unheated is just going to
be too cold. You will only gain a few weeks advantage over simply
planting seeds out at the beginning of the growing season. There are a few cold weather crops that might
be an exception. When I grow from seed I
start most things in mid-March.in my heated basement.

One year I bought an inexpensive set of plastic shelving with
heavy plastic cover. I thought I would be able to move seedlings outside a bit
earlier. It would have met your easy to
assemble requirement, but the wind knocked it over. So I am not sure your will find something quck
to assemble and take down that will be sturdy enough.

My biggest concern, regardless of its effectiveness, would be having it blow off the roof and cause an accident or damage. Boston rooftops can be really windy. I've read too many stories of panels blowing out of their frames in high winds with inexpensive metal-framed greenhouses with rigid panels, and getting a single layer soft poly greenhouse staked down well enough on a rooftop so that it would be guaranteed not to take off would be a real challenge.

You would most likely want it to be twinwalled like doreenwoods's in order to hold enough heat to make it worthwhile, but that won't be reasonable to take down and put up annually. So I tend to doubt whether this would be a useful way to start seedlings. I would be more likely to see if there might be a way to rearrange your indoor space to allow for a grow light - On top of a tall book shelf? In your bathroom? Do you have a storage unit?

There is a fairly active greenhouse forum. http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/strucs

Hello, All. So sorry for the delayed reply! I have a needy teenager (LOL). I will reply later today once I read all these wonderful comments carefully. I contacted our local horticultural society's hotline, and they were very assuring, as well. Back soon. Thank you!!

Okay, let's see, I will take this one at a time. NHBabs: Thank you for helping me think about the wind! Fortunately, our roof deck has 5' walls (wood) all around it. I'm hoping this might help protect it from the wind. But, the other thing you made me think about is this: Since the decking on our roof is wood (it sits on top of our roof), perhaps I can drill some screws into the ground (with a little "O" ring at the top), giving me something to anchor the greenhouse to -- so I don't have a Wizard of Oz situation (where the house lifts off the ground and swirls around, until it drops into someone else's yard...) I'd have to be careful about no one one tripping on the screws in the summer, so another alternative might be to simply anchor the greenhouse, somehow, to our deck furniture which is currently covered up on the deck. Thank you as well for the link to the greenhouse forum. I thought I was there. I'll definitely check it out. As for rearranging my indoor space, I simply can't. My condo is 900 sq feet, for three of us. We are filled to the gills. Plus, I'm not sure it's bright enough. My only hope is moving everything off the bright half of my desk - which is right in front of good sized window. But that's only about 2x2 ft tops. Hence, the greenhouse idea was born! More to come...

Okay, next topic: Temperature. One thought I had (read online) was to put a tarp down on the "floor" of the deck, too. Maybe even an old sheet. I thought this might hold in the heat in the greenhouse, a little better. One thing I saw online (review on Home Depot) was a guy who wrapped his greenhouse in bubble wrap as insulation. I found this curious, since I would think this would limit the sun from shining through as much. When I called our local horticultural society, they suggested it might be okay to start mid-March (8 weeks before the last frost here in Boston - like you mentioned A), and just "Be sure to shovel the snow away." This seems kinda risky to me, but perhaps I could bring the plants inside at night? (A hassle, I know, but worth a try?) Asarum, when you grow in your heated basement, I'm assuming you have a grow light? Windows? What cold weather plants did you start with outside? More to come later this am...

Any indoor starts will need a grow light, set very close to the plants with a way (such as chains on hooks to hang the lights) that will allow you to raise the lights as the plants grow. I have used basic fluorescent light fixtures with one warm and one cool bulb in each. Mine were 4' long, but can be found in shorter lengths as well. Mine was a shelving setup along a hallway, so the hall got skinny for a few weeks. No windows needed. If your condo has basement storage units, that would work as long as there is power and it isn't too cold. You could use heating mats made for growing plants to warm the soil if needed.

Yes, you can cover a greenhouse at night with an insulating blanket of some type, and you can use bubble wrap to insulate from the inside (individual sheets) or outside (large sheet like a clear pool cover) but in either case you will need to have some way to fasten it and you would need to be able to put a nontransparent blanket on and take it off around your work schedule. However, cold won't be your only issue as far as temperature. You will also have to worry about overheating and being able to vent the greenhouse before it gets to hot. I have killed seedlings back to the soil line in a sunny greenhouse when the venting blew closed and it got far too hot inside. They regrew, but I lost all the time I got from my early start, so it was wasted effort that year. So you will have to have some accommodation for venting excess heat. The smaller the greenhouse, the wider the temperature swings can be since there isn't as large an air mass as in a larger greenhouse. Usually for inexpensive greenhouses, you have to manually open vents (such as unzipping windows or doors) while ones like doreenwoods's can be fitted with automatic vents or even venting fans that come on when the temperature hits a certain level.

I don't mean to discourage enthusiasm, but to be realistic, I didn't save money starting my own seeds early, and it was a fair amount of work. My setup was an indoor seed starting unit combined with some beds (4'x 16') that were covered with tall hoops and poly to create medium height tunnels starting in May so that I got about an extra 4 weeks in my garden beds. I did this for a number of years. I did it to get some varieties that weren't available locally at that time as seedlings. I've now found enough plant sources that I can get all but two of the varieties I want locally without having to have an early seed starting set up. By now, the seeds I start myself are all ones I can direct sow such as poppies, Nicotiana, peas, beans, beets, carrots, and a range of greens. You can also read up on winter sowing; there is a winter sowing forum here on Garden Web, though WS won't get you early warm-season veggies like tomatoes and peppers. Around here, everyone I know who has a greenhouse for earlier seedlings has heat, either propane or wood, and at least double walled sides.

As doreenwoods mentioned, extending the fall harvest with some type of shelter will be at least as useful as far as having fresh veggies for a longer season. Some, like spinach, I can sow in the fall, and have an early harvest from outdoor overwintered plants, and you may be able to do this all winter with some plants with row cover and a greenhouse. Check out Elliot Coleman and his winter harvest books. He plants mid- to late summer, depending on the crop and then harvests all winter from plants that have grown to size from their midsummer planting. Even though they don't grow, under row cover in a greenhouse, they do stay warm enough for harvest. A basic shelter, vented during sunny days and covered with poly and perhaps a second layer on colder nights, can get you several extra weeks of fresh tomatoes and peppers IME by protecting the plants from the first several frosts. However, since day lengths are shortening and light is less intense, IME they don't do a huge amount of fall growing, just holding onto and ripening what is already there.

Doreen, Thank you thank you for your awesome post, including pictures. I am utterly envious. Your set up looks like so much fun! Thank you as well for the vote of confidence in terms of learning as we go. I feel the exact same way. And there is always more to learn about gardening!

As for extending the season, are you suggesting that once the weather gets chilly , I bring the plants back into the greenhouse and try to keep them going? What a cool idea. Never thought of that.

I'm not sure I follow you about planting (planting in the greenhouse?) and what I would buy at the plant center. I'm very curious how you harvest your seeds and save them for the next year. (Oh, so much to learn)

Thank you for your excellent tip about trying the easy stuff from seeds the first year. Would tomatoes fall into that category? (My goal is Gerbera daisies, I love the cheery colors and they are very expense to buy.) Any suggestions of veggies that grow in a bunch, as you suggest? What flowers do you grow?

Thank you as well for your tip about humidity. I was wondering the exact same thing. How hot is too hot? What type of humidity should I look for? I do worry about air flow and rot! (Oh, so much to learn.)

Your greenhouse is gorgeous. Thank you for posting photographs. Only your third summer!?!? That is amazing. Looks like you are happily and successfully addicted! I am more then open to any other helpful tips.

Thank you so so much!!

Thank you, NHBabs! I'm curious about your lighting set up: Why one warm and one cool light? I wish I had any space for a light, but just don't. The only possibility I have to start seeds are three window sills which are pretty dark (they face another building, 7' ft away). I've always imagined I can't start seeds on them, but maybe I am wrong?

Re: heat and venting. You make some excellent points. Any idea what temp range seeds need? Another possibility would be to bring them in at night. I could handle that. The deck is right off our bedroom. I am also concerned about humidity. Any idea about that, too, in terms of numbers. I would hate to rot my poor seedlings.

I am hearing you in terms of amount of work vs yield. I am super busy so I'm not looking for more work. I just love gardening and since my finances are very limited (and buying flats is so very expensive!!) , I thought this might be a neat way to combine the two.

Thank you for the tips on what others have in terms of heaters and double-walls. I am getting the picture! Darn!

Your post is both extremely helpful and very sobering. Thank you!!!

You are welcome for the advice! I am by no means an expert, I just love flowers!!!!! When I got the greenhouse, it was my first time growing vegetables. In the past, if it didn't have a flower, I didn't plant/grow it!!!! However, it is fabulous to walk out into your own yard and pick tomatoes, potatoes, peppers and salad!!!! Tomatoes are easy to grow from seed!!! And the herbs!!!!!! Don't get me started on the herbs!!!! There's nothing like a kitchen garden. I grow herbs of all kinds and when it's time to harvest, I just pick them, spread them on a screen and put them in the oven at the lowest temperature and dry them. I keep them in containers or baggies in my freezer to use until the next season. I grow several varieties of basil and when I harvest that, I just pop it into a jar, add olive oil, put in the fridge and use for cooking all winter. You can also freeze it in ice cube trays with olive oil. For me, it's not so much about saving money, it's just being able to grow my own. I also do the same with my flowers. As the season comes to a close, I stop deadheading so I can collect the seeds. I just make sure they are dry, then pop them into a labelled bag and stick it in the freezer until planting time. I read on some forum that freezing them makes it easier for germination. I don't save seeds from everything I grow, just the easy stuff that I use in mass in the yard....mostly marigolds, cleome, etc. (easy annuals) The veggie seeds, I buy every year, just no GMO seeds. When you buy catalog seeds, you can find many different varieties that you don't find in the local stores or garden centers. I believe somewhere on this site there is a seed trading forum!

I think you really need to narrow down what type of greenhouse you want. The others posting have valid concerns about wind. The last thing you want is to spend money on something that's going to blow down :( I bought the Grandio because it had good ratings on wind and snow load. I've seen over a foot of snow on the roof of mine, and we've had a lot of nasty storms, and that greenhouse never budges!!!!!! I do have it attached to the ground though.....6 footer screws through 8X8 timbers (which is what the greenhouse is attached to). I also picked this greenhouse because it has gutters that run down to rain barrels. The plants like rainwater way better than tap water!

Humidity.....ughhh.... a greenhouse killer! Make sure whatever you get has some windows that open or vents on the roof. Even though mine has 3 roof vents that automatically open at a certain temperature, you need air flow. That's why I got 2 fans for mine this year. They are solar, so I'll have to see how that goes! Cleveland isn't a very sunny place :(

Flowers......oh geez......I have a lot!!!!! I do cottage gardening because I'm one of those crazies that thinks you can never have too many flowers and with that type of gardening, you just pack them in!!!! I have a hard time driving my a nursery without stopping. It's an addiction for sure! Two years ago I added two hives honey bees just to see if I'd get more blooms.....I did!!!!!

Start simple!!!!!!!

One warm and one cool bulb give a closer to full wavelength combination.

You can get clamp on lights to use with either fluorescent bulbs (usually fairly short) or LEDs which are created as grow bulbs. So you could try the window sills and clamp on lights and then as the seeds grow, move them out for days and in for nights. You would have to research when best to start seeds this way, but might get a few weeks jump on direct seeding.

I can only add a few points to the detailed responses you got
above. I do use lights in my basement as
NHBabs described. All the most common
vegetables are easy to grow from seed. Plants with finicky germination don’t
work as major crops for farmers etc. I
never thought about this before I started growing from seed myself. Many flowers are easy to grow from seed and
you can find listings online for them. II
searched around for something I thought I had seen in the past: an extensive listing of plants with a notation
about degree of difficulty, but I didn’t find it.

Here is a list of cold weather crops that I took from the Sunset
website: I am not sure how to do links
these days or if there are new rules.

Arugula, beets, broccoli. Brussels sprouts,
cabbage, collards, carrots, cauliflower, chard, fennel, kale, kohlrabi,
lettuce, mizuna, mustard greens, onions,
Pak choi (Bok choy), peas, potatoes, radishes, spinach and coriander

I grow onions from seed and start them in
late January, planting them out when the soil is workable in late March or April. I used to grow broccoli in the same way. I sometimes grow stock and sweet peas which prefer
cool weather. I had quite limited success
with planting sweet pea seeds out in March, but after I attended a class on
sweet pea growing at Tower Hill, I learned that they like to germinate at a warm
temperature (even though they will be planted out into quite cool weather and soil. Since then I have had good success, starting in my basement.. One
of the things you learn as you start growing from seed is that you need to know
the right conditions for germination: darkness
or light, right temperature, etc.

There's a lot of good advice here, and many people have pointed out some pitfalls and things to consider. I had a permanent 12x10x8 greenhouse for over 15 years. One year a snowstorm in late March blew off a panel, and once that was gone more of them blew off. I lost everything, and there were some things I can never replace. So absolutely the most important thing is that you have a solid structure, because a rooftop in Boston is going to get heavy winds at times. Even with a five foot fence, it could blow over. If it should blow over, everything else about seed sources, heating, covering at night, etc, is all moot. I don't think a temporary greenhouse hooked to a few screws would work. One person stated that the better, solid greenhouse cost $2500. There are so many garden centers in your area, and I know that a flat of annuals here averages about $10-12 each. So even 10 flats a year would only cost you $100-120. That's about 20+ years of plants for $2,500, and no worries or hassle. Just a thought.

Doreen, I LOVE your photographs! Thank you for all these tips. I feel the exact same way as you. I love the gardening process, and the process of learning more and more. This probably has do do with the fact that it's purely a hobby -- it doesn't stress me out like work where I have to know what I am doing :-)

When you don't deadhead, but save the seeds, when do you separate the seeds from the dead flower? Before of after you freeze?

As for greenhouse, this is the one I am looking at the Ogrow $ 41.99 gh at Target. My husband said he would happily (love my husband) drill holes in our deck to secure the greenhouse. I like this gh because it's inexpensive. I can learn w/o spending a ton of money -- and possibly branch out after that. (It also have two vent/windows and a door).

We sound very like-minded. I LOVE cottage gardening. The more diversity and lushness, the better -- imo. Once I resize my pics, I will post a few of my deck. (It's not that lush, but I also need space for people.) I feel the same way, I just can't stop buying flowers to add to my deck. I love August because they all go on sale!! I completely understand adding hives. LOL. My new project is our front yard. It's 5'x5'. I'm thinking about doing some sort of art "installation along with the 7' high sunflowers we grow. I grew bulbs but it was too "controlled" for me. Most days in the summer, I just go out on the deck and sit. Happily. Surveying my "kingdom" and planning "what next."

NHBabs, I think this sounds like a great idea! I'm going to give it a try. Thank you. Years ago, my husband built me 3" deep horizontal shelves that run across our 6' high windows. I bet I could clamp the lights to the shelves and put the plants underneath, on the sill. D you have any very specific suggestions of warm and cool blubs? I may take a trip to Home Depot this weekend!

By "direct seeding," do you mean transferring them to a greenhouse or directly into the soil?

THank you!!

Asarum, thank you for these ideas! I will look around for a list. Excellent point about knowing the specifics of each plant -- darkness, light, temp. humidity. Having a reference for this would be a great thing to find online. I have a lot of work to do.

I think everyone's suggestion of starting easy is a great idea. Knowing me, I'll throw in a few harder ones and see what happens. Learning from mistakes is super helpful, too.

One thing I have noticed is that gerbera daisy seeds as VERY expensive. I find interesting. I wonder why. I am anticipating my veggies will be less expensive.

I also like your idea of taking a class. I never thought of that. I may look around. Or, just put the money into seeds and jump in :-) THank you SO much!!

HI Bill. Thank you. I think your comments make a TON of sense. I know you are right. One year, my beloved 20 year old Ficus tree got some insects in October. We brought it outside on the deck, sprayed it down regularly. 1/2 way through the process we had a freeze. I wrapped it carefully in an old bedsheet and blankets to help keep it warm enough. One night there was a wind... The next day, I was hard pressed to find the bedding/insulation. Eventually I found them underneath the deck (between the deck and our roof. I think for me, while it is cost (especially for gerbera daisies), it's also the sense of learning and experimentation. The feeling that I can grow and nurture these seeds into a full-on plants/flowers seems exciting to me. THis said, I am going to heed your warning, big time!!

Hi all, Here are some shots of my deck. Maybe not the best (they are probably a little wide), but should give you a idea. I took these the day I had done my first planting. As the summer progresses, there are more and more larger plants and less space for people. LOL. This looks pretty tame and tidy.

Oh, I should say, this past summer I wasn't able to plant any veggies. A rarity.

As a nursery grower, what I can tell you, is that you might be better off with a good cold frame as a season extender. There is sort of a general misconception that greenhouses make starting plants easier. I watched my sister ignore all of my advice and spend good money on a really cute, hobby greenhouse. We live in Minnesota and Wisconsin. What she learned, is that it can be quite difficult to control temperatures in these little "hot houses". They don't stay warm enough without supplemental heat to do you much good in the winter months and without a good source of air circulation; seedlings can damp off quickly. Once the sun's power increases and it is warm enough to utilize your greenhouse without heaters, it is going to get hotter than heck in there. Professional growers use shade cloth or shading compounds to help reduce the impact of the sun on the temperatures within the greenhouse.

Grow lights do not have to take up a lot of space, but direct sunlight is difficult to replace completely via artificial means, without creating a special growing area within your home. Regular, fluorescent fixtures actually do a very good job of providing supplemental light and you can get little ones. They don't give you much of the red spectrum, which is why having your seedlings receive some natural sunlight is beneficial. If you have space near a sunny window where you can start a couple of flats, that's ideal. You will most likely need to warm the soil with a heating pad or a small electric blanket from beneath. Having a little fan nearby to circulate the air is also helpful. The challenge you have then, is keeping the plants adequately moist without saturating them. This is especially important in the early stages, before they have their true leaves. That's when they will try to damp off on you. I actually made a relatively effective little grow house out of a small, rectangular aquarium. Unfortunately, I killed most of my seedlings with neglect after things got busy at my work greenhouse.

Once you get your seedlings to a sturdy stage, that's when you will want to harden them off gradually and that is where the cold frame comes in. Cold frames work beautifully, as long as you monitor the temperature within them. You need to know what your minimum and maximum temperatures are, so you can take steps to adjust them (more insulation, different exposure, etc) if they are less than optimum for your crop of choice. Here's a good link-

Cold Frames

I'm not going to touch on where to get your seeds, because our yard is shady and I really don't do much vegetable gardening. What I will tell you, is that the Gerbera daisies are going to be a source of angst for you. They are one of the hardest crops to grow and even professional growers struggle with starting them from seed and keeping them happy in the greenhouse. There are plenty of daisies that are less frustrating from seed, such as Gazanias and Osteospurmums. Try those instead and buy your Gerbs from a reputable grower.

I hope this helps you and doesn't discourage you. Just remember, the key to growing anything anywhere is having the proper balance of: air movement, temperature, water and sunlight. The great outdoors does a beautiful job of providing that balance most of the time. Duplicating it indoors requires a tolerance for occasional failures. It's a low cost experiment, so don't be afraid to fail and you will eventually succeed.

Absolutely love your rooftop garden! It's charming! I can see that you will also have some protection from the wind!!!

Noel, your pictures gave me a really good idea. You have what appears to be the chimney right in the middle of your deck. Hello! Source of some warmth, not only because the bricks will hold some heat from the sun, but the flue will be warmed from your heating system. Why not try to build some sort of metal frame that can be built against/close to the chimney (check building codes of course) that would hold temporary panels of glass to create an enclosure? Once it's warm, you can take the glass down, I say metal and glass because they're not flammable.

Direct seeded means to plant the seeds in the spot where they will grow all season rather than starting them in smaller containers and transplanting.

One of my favorite, easy to grow crops is snap peas. I pre-sprout in a small bowl inside by soaking for several hours, draining, and covering with a damp towel or a plastic bag. Within a day or two I start seeing roots, and then I plant outdoors. (Not quite direct seeded since they are already sprouted, but almost.) Here they are ready to go outside. I push aside the row of soil, drop the peas onto the soil and recover gently so that I don't break the roots.

You won't want this many, which will plant 5 or so 4' rows, enough to feed you three more peas than you likely want to eat! When I do this varies from year to year, but the soil needs to be fully thawed and I wait until further snow is unlikely. Since they have germinated in warm temperatures, I have very little rot and they will take off whenever the conditions are right. They are typically the first thing I plant. Virtually all get eaten raw, often right out in the garden as I am working. If you have kids, this will be a favorite once they have tried them. No greenhouse needed. You can plant many greens out (from seedlings started indoors) at about the same time for more early veggies.

Hello Kahnke Bros. Thank you for chiming in! This is all very very helpful! So many questions:

Sounds like one option is to put seeds in the window sill. Still confused about sighting though. I will add a picture of my set up shortly. Don't know if you can see it but there is a house about 7' from my windows, so there really isn't much light and no direct light. My question is -- do I need a warm and cold- colored light or just one florescent? I'm also going to have to figure out how to get a fluorescent light in here.

Also, I'm sorry, I'm just not clear what damp off is.

Yesterday at The Christmas Tree Shop I found plastic and "natural" sets of starter pots. They come 18 or so in a pack, attached together. (Will include a picture) What I thought was interesting about these is that they also contain a clear plastic cover. Sort of a little greenhouse lid so-to-speak. Maybe I should just put these on a table on my deck (on top of a blanket) in the day time, and bring them in at night? I could punch a few little holes in the lids? I'm a little dubious of the natural ones for veggies (you transfer the small pot they start in into the soil with the plant). I don't know what is actually in them to trust that I"d be okay eating veggies grown in them.

A cold frame sounds like an interesting idea. I'm not sure how I'd do it though. I grow all of my plants in individual containers, some of them very small. Physically and logistically, I'm just not sure how I'd set something up around each plant. One of the links you sent suggested even bales of hay. But then, I guess my question is, what would I put on top and bottom that would allow for air circulation? The reason I'd initially thought of a greenhouse is that it would lift the plants off the bottom of the deck -- which is the coldest part.

Thank you SO much!

Hi Bill, You are right, there is a chimney. Unfortunately, it's not a real working chimney. Our furnace is attached to it, but the chimney itself doesn't get warm. What you a re suggesting sounds a bit like the cold frame Krahnke Bros is suggesting.

My question is, why is this better then a greenhouse? I'm worried that having seeds practically on the ground would be very cold -- and I'm not sure how I would build some temporary raised beds. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Thank you!!

NH Babs, this sounds great!

I guess my question is, can I grow them in a container vs, in a backyard, say? We actually do have a small backyard (6' x 8') BUT, it tends to be pretty dark (I can't even grow shade grass there -- too many apts back onto each other), and on top of that... our city and neighborhood tends to have a problem with, dare I say, rats. I've never seen them thank goodness, but my neighbors have, and I hear about them frequently. For those reasons, I tend to want to focus my growing attention upstairs.

Maybe this is a silly question, but do you start your snap peas from fresh peas or frozen? (I ask because it looks like one of your pics is of frozen peas).

One other question, you say there is very little rot because they were germinated in warm temps. Why is this? I might thinking it'd be the other way around? Thank you for the suggestion, I would love to start growing peas!!

HI all, I will post pictures of my window sills for any suggestions on lighting, once it's a little lighter. Maybe an hour or so.

Thank you Doreen, my little deck makes me incredibly happy.

Your deck is adorable. I live in Central MA and one year we also got a greenhouse. A cheap one from a discount store with a metal frame and clear plastic exterior. I got home from work and my husband was all excited to show me that he bought a greenhouse and put plants in it.

It was not the boon he was hoping for. It got too cold at night, since it had no heater, and too warm during the day. He actually ended up baking a couple tomato and pepper plants. And then it blew away... bouncing across my lawn, so we got these stakes to anchor it down. Then we had a BIG storm, eventually- maybe it was in the fall and a hurricane, and the plastic just ripped to shreds.

We were, however, to make a great plant stand out of the metal frame and plastic connectors that we now start seeds on.

I start from pea seeds which are dried peas. All seeds in packets will be dried. The soaking takes the peas from smaller and wrinkled to the slightly cooked appearance and sprouting. Growing in a large pot would be fine. Since you are in a windy rooftop. I would try to find the most sheltered spot since they are vine, give them support from stakes, multibranched sticks, or wire fencing, and choose one of the shorter types of edible prodded peas. Seed rot happens in cold soil when it is too cold for the seeds to germinate IME.

Ruth, I think you sum it all up quite nicely. I am laughing out loud as I read. (I say this lovingly, not meanly). One question, what do you mean you "start seeds on?" Do you mean you use it simply as shelves w/o the plastic sides? When do you begin the seeds? Thank you.

NHBabs, Ohhh, I see. Those pics are of dried packaged seeds. I didn't get that from the pics. I apologize. Silly me. My mistake. As for growing on the deck, can I grow them up or do they need to go sideways. I would probably use stakes in the pot, or otherwise, attach some netting to one of the walls of the deck to train them. Thank you for the seed rot info. I get it now. I always just think of rot as when something is too wet.

Hi all, Okay, I just want to try to recap, as I am feeling very depressed about the possibility of not having a little greenhouse. My understanding is that unless I can ventilate it well (that is, make sure it doesn't get too hot, and the humidity is just right -- probably with a humidifier and heater) and stake it down so that it doesn't fly away, I should probably give up on this dream.

I'm curious, is there some general temperature and humidity that I might want to think about? I don't mind trying to nurture and monitor the greenhouse, if there is any chance. I also have electrical outlets on my deck, but it seems like using a heater at night, on a wooden deck, and a plastic covering is risky and potentially very dangerous.

Also, what I am hearing is that it is possible to begin germinating the seeds in my condo, just as (if not more) successfully. This is not my first choice as my space is very very tight as is. However, I am posting some pictures of places where this might be possible. I'm still uncertain of the kind of lighting I would need or if I can just try this with ambient/natural light.

Lastly, it sounds like cold frames might be an option, but I'm a little unclear how these might be any better then a greenhouse (other then the plants wouldn't have to be moved) in terms of heat and humidity. Plus, this is probably the least practical for me, given the number of containers I have relative to the space needed for each cold frame.

Thank you all again!

Okay, here are pics, as promised. The first pics are two windows in my kitchen. The desk is my daughter's, as her bedroom is only 6'x7' (oh, the joys of city living). The pictures are fairly light because I lightened them. Actually, we really don't get a lot of light. The house next door is only 7' away. On the first and second pic., the white vertical pieces with small holes ever few inches apart are part of a baby window "gate." They are removable. The shelves themselves are 3" deep by 37" long.

These second set of pictures are of a skylight in our kitchen. It is opposite the wall with the windows. As you may be able to see, the skylight is currently covered with snow. Fortunately, if need be, hubby can easily remove the snow. Our deck is built on top of our roof, and the skylight pokes out of this same roof. So actually, the skylight is flush with the floor of our deck. (In the last deck picture, on the right immediately next to the table, you can see a spot where there is a little cross-hatched fence. The skylight is behind the fence.)

Noel I think you should look into "Winter Sowing." It is a method of starting seeds in kind of a mini greenhouse made out of a gallon milk jug or a 2 liter soda bottle. Here is a link to a blogger I like that has a pretty good explanation and timeline http://www.agardenforthehouse.com/2018/01/winter-sowing/.  The one thing I would say about it is that I have had mixed germination results but I also trade seeds so I often have seeds that are older or home harvested. I have never tried peppers or tomatoes that way but the blogger has.

Somewhere, there really should be room for a 2 ft fluorescent light tube. If the kitchen soffit wasn't covered with plants, I'd suggest a 4 ft tube up there. You don't need any natural light, just the fluorescent. It can go on the back of your toilet, in a closet - pretty much anywhere.

Mad_gallica, Okay, here's an idea. What if I put it under the soffitt on the right? (See picture) That essentially doesn't get any natural light. Would I attach it directly to the ceiling? I'd have to plug it in somewhere though. And by florescent, do you mean grow light? Any tips on specific brands or types? So I would start seeds about 6-8 weeks before the last frost? What would I put the seeds in? Just plain old plastic pots? How many per pot?

Here's another question. Yesterday I bought the following (See picture). They come with plastic lids. Could I just stick these outside (poking holes on the lid)? Maybe on a table in a low Serilite bin (like the size of an under-the-bed plastic box) with holes poked in the bottom, so they don't blow away? Any thoughts on plastic or "natural"? The black ones are 1.6" x 1.6," the natural ones are 2"x2".

Thank you!

Hi There- You have gotten some good advice from the other contributors. Any direct light is a positive thing, however, a fluorescent light will work just fine. Grow lights really aren't that much better and they are expensive. When we used to sell vegetables at our former retail store, I would use the plastic flats with covers like the one you show above. Then I put heating pads below them to warm the soil. I tried grow lights, but to keep costs down, I reverted to the regular fluorescents. It is good to have some way to raise and lower the lights as the seedlings grow. As far as ventilation goes, you just want to make sure that the plants aren't tightly covered all the time. A little air gap will be adequate when they are small. As they get larger, it is beneficial to have a little fan on them to prevent fungal growth and naturally strengthen their stems.

Peat pots are probably the best, natural products to use for starting seeds if you want to be able to plant the whole thing. They are just peat, plain and simple. I have also seen people succeed with the little newspaper starter pots that you make and egg shells. Egg Shell Starter Pots There is no problem with starting the seeds in plastic flats. However, the nice part about the natural pots that you can plant is that you don't have to disturb the root systems of the seedlings when you transplant them.

As far as the coldframe goes, the time to benefit from a cold frame is before you transplant your plants into their individual, larger containers. When I started lots of veggies, I would transplant them from their flats (as shown above) into 4-4.5" pots and grow them that way for a while before planting them in their permanent, summer homes. What that does, is keeps the ratio of soil relevant to plant size and what THAT does, is helps develop strong root systems. You would want to have your coldframe off of the cold ground, but that is easy enough to do. If you were to use straw bales, you could use shallow, plastic crates to keep the plants off of the ground like these- plastic crates. The best "roofs" are made from old windows, which are inexpensive and easy to find. The reason windows work so well is that they can open and close for ventilation and temperature control.

Lastly, this is what damping off is- Damping Off This is going to be the most critical thing to prevent. Once your seedlings get their true leaves, they will be less vulnerable to this problem. Until they do, it's best to keep a close eye on them, because this pathogen moves quickly and can take out all your little babies.

Consider this- if you time the starting of your seedlings correctly and possibly choose varieties that have a shorter season, you may be able to avoid using a cold frame or greenhouse completely. Here in Minnesota, we really can't put plants outside for good until the end of May. The last few years, we have had killing frosts during the third or fourth week of May. However, if you harden your plants off gradually by placing them outside for a few hours a day, gradually working up to whole days and eventually 24-hour intervals; you'll be just fine :)

Hi, Krahnke Bros. Thank you for all your insight and valuable advice. I just want to follow up on a few things.

That's interesting that lighting-wise, regular fluorescents tend to be as good any anything else. I wonder, if I put the seeds in the window, if that would be enough natural light or if it'd be helpful to have a fluorescent too.

When you say heating pads, what do you mean? What did you use? Were the plants indoors at the time (a few hours day)? Was it for just a little while or all the time (24/7)?

Thank you for the tip about the little fan!

Peat pots! that's what they a re called. Thank you!! I'm wondering, do I need to worry about what is *in* the peat? In others words, chemicals of any sort? I'm not a fanatic, but it just did get me wondering since I plan to eat the veggies I grow in them.

Coldframes: Ohhh, now I understand. It's an intermediate step! Here in Boston, the last frost is roughly mid-May. I was thinking of starting my seeds in mid-March giving me about 8 weeks to grow them indoors. Are you suggesting that perhaps I could start seeds earlier, and then transfer them to coldframes some time prior to mid-May (like, even, mid-March)? Though, as I am writing this, I am thinking about all the years we've had snow in March and April!

Thank you re: the dampening off. This link provides a great description. I will indeed need to keep a lose eye out! Omg so much to keep track of. I'm looking forward to it.

Finally, thank you for the tip about putting the "baby" plants out, in intervals. That sounds like a wonderful suggestion!

I feel lucky to be the benefactor of your very helpful insight and advice!!! Thank you agian. Noel