Good understocks. Very good.

Be aware that most plants labeled as 'Tomoni' are a mystery Abies koreana cultivar.

Oh and by the way, Abies bornmuelleriana is actually Abies nordmanniana subsp. equi-trojani.

Oh really. So I shouldn't buy this plant if I want it strictly to be a homolepis cultivar? Also, how do you know this?

Show a pic. If the buds are white with resin, it's koreana. There is a large relic nursery in Sandy, Oregon that has a large example of this mistake.

If that's where The Kingdom got its cuttings, then it's the unknown koreana.

I can't really tell if they are buds or cones forming

Any professional nursery is going to be using compatible rootstock, so there is no worry there. However, there are some specific situations where you might be interested to know what is being used. If you are in a southern state, firma is preferred as a rootstock on abies. If you are in an eastern US state, Picea abies is highly preferred over pungens, the fast majority now use Picea abies, so not much of a concern, but worth checking, especially with west coast nurseries. With Chamaecyparis, you want it to be on "DR" (Disease resistant) rootstock. And I think Chief Joseph should be on Contora rootstock...

Beyond that, unless your a real expert trying to solve a specific problem, then the standard compatibility that Dax lists here is good enough. These notes were originally taken from the Bob Fincham Grafting DVD, so it's highly valuable information

http://conifers.gardenwebs.net/Graftingtips.htm

Thanks for the link. Btw you can use picea abies as a rootstock for an abies, an entirely different genus??

No.

Picea abies is the universal understock for spruces only.

"With Chamaecyparis, you want it to be on "DR" (Disease resistant) rootstock."

Which, per another thread here, is really just a clone of a PNW species that is disease-resistant in the PNW. Someone has reported (maybe conifer50?) that those plants die in Atlanta. For much of the east coast south of NYC, it seems an Asian Chamaecyparis rootstock would be a safer bet.

Likewise, mature Larix decidua are incredibly rare south of the Mason-Dixon line, and it wouldn't really make sense as a recommended rootstock this far south. But there aren't many better alternatives at the moment, and it's probably going to be just fine in the NYC area if planted on well draining soil and sensibly cultivated. (i.e., don't pour a cup of urea on the root zone, right before an 8" rainfall due to an August hurricane!)

Japanese larch might help in the way Japanese fir helps with firs in the southeast? It seems a lot of Larix kaempferi seed stock is inbred and/or has poor disease resistance for other reasons: I suspect current commercial strains of Japanese larch were selected (line bred, really) for fast growth in either maritime or cool summer, subtropical highland climates...could help explain why they perform poorly in a hot summer continental climate. They seem to grow too fast and too soft. Larix mastersiana, so far, seems extremely heat and steam-bath resistant, but is somewhat slow growing. Maybe someday it will mature, along with my 2 out of 7 or so Japanese larch that have shrugged off root rot, they will cross themselves and I can offer "southeastern muggy heat and torrential downpour resistant" larch seeds LOL. I was able to ground layer my L. mastersiana, and will try again next year...it might, itself, have been a lucky find. Perhaps not every seedling of that species is tough enough to grow here.

Chamaecyparis lawsoniana 'Blue Surprise' in particular seems to be a problem, I don't know why, but even on DR mine just suddenly croaked and it was sited right next to Chamaecyparis lawsoniana 'Wissel's Saguaro', also on DR, and that one is doing really well (So far...).

The nurseries won't usually mess with offering multiple rootstock choices unless there is substantial evidence that being on different roots indeed produces a better outcome for a large audience. Firma is probably the only "mainstream" alternative that is offered, and even that is hard to find. I've read numerous reports that people in the south are not even sure that it makes a difference... so who knows, more time needed to observe I guess.

Even if you do your own grafting, obtaining unusual rootstock is not easy. If you can track it down, they are typically selling wholesale, so you have to buy at least 50, maybe 250 minimum. If you can't do that, the only option is to grow from seed... and that's a lot of effort unless you have concrete evidence that a different rootstock will produce a superior outcome for your environment...

I see that Lawyers Nursery has sold out of all P-2 Abies firma! The bundles of 10(9-12") "were" $2.40 each, not bad! "The early bird gets the worm""

"The nurseries won't usually mess with offering multiple rootstock
choices unless there is substantial evidence that being on different
roots indeed produces a better outcome for a large audience. Firma is
probably the only "mainstream" alternative that is offered,"

True, and a sign of how behind our nursery industry is generally. Many wholesaler-produced rhododendrons in Germany are grafted for increased garden performance, even though most cultivars are easily rooted. Many nurseries in "small economies of scale" Australia now offer grafted Proteaceae. (by which I mean, versus alternatives that must be grafted, like Japanese maples etc. We are only beginning to see grafting for garden performance, vs. necessity.)

"I've read numerous reports that people in the south are not even sure
that it makes a difference... so who knows, more time needed to observe I
guess."

Really? Are you reading that around here on gardenweb...because I certainly haven't seen such opinions expressed. I think most people who get the correctly grafted firs find it works. All Abies grandis I had here, planted or in pots, died after a year or so. My grafted Abies procera 'Sherwoodii' is in its 3rd year now, growing well albeit slowly as you would expect for a variegated plant that was planted as a liner size. Not many people even here talk about them though, because, really, besides me, conifer50, and a couple others, there are not many fir collectors in the southeast. I sometimes email a long-time lurker with a very large and ambitious collection, and he believes firma makes a difference for him in North Carolina. No other way the high Himalayan Abies spectabilis would survive for him.

I expect they will continue to be hard to get. And even harder for me, because I would like straight species, not dwarf cultivars. (though I do have a painfully slow 'Golden Spreader') My requests to get a grafted straight Abies grandis were ignored by a couple nurseries. My attempts to do it myself, failed. At the moment I've given up even looking for them and will just have to be happy with the Abies procera I have. Anyhow it isn't as though the genus isn't represented in my garden...two of my biggest 'planted by me' trees now are Abies firma, which are very fast where happy. Also Abies pindrow, Abies ernestii or recurvata are growing fine. I have some seedling A. albas I might give to a relative up north, though I think they will survive indefinitely here, they aren't exciting enough LOL.

Yea, maybe I should have researched my assumption there better... I have no experience growing conifers in the South, I think that my impression was mostly based on an article in the Winter 17 edition of the conifer society by a member in Georgia, and he listed all of the plants he lost during their drought. The number of abies he lost on firma was insane, and it sounded like he was suggesting that certain species will fail, even if they are on firma (ex. concolor). However, he did have at least short term success with more northern species on firma, including fraseri and veitchii, which is pretty insane...

I guess it's safe to say firma probably without question extends the range in which abies can be grown in the south... but at a certain point south, it doesn't matter with some species, just too hot

Yes but the issue has never been dying in a drought!

High elevation plants that one is attempting to grow in the SE US tend to die after heavy downpours in summer. Phytophthora LOVE hot, wet soil.

If they were dying in droughts I'd surmise he was either not watering them enough, or watering them with water that was in some way unsatisfactory. (very calcium rich well water, or municipal water with alkaline additives to preserve pipes, but can cause sodium to build up...I believe firma prefers acid to neutral soil but not really sure)

I suppose it is possible you could get too hot for even Abies firma roots to survive - but I don't see how that's possible in Georgia when we know from Willows they will grow on North Florida sand. Maybe they need a bit more shade down there, I have no idea.

Likewise, I suppose some scions (top) just can't survive their leaves exposed to a certain temp...but I believe that is relatively uncommon. I would only think it applies if he was growing the very most high elevation, cold climate species...even if you could graft Meconopsis to Papaver, I don't think they would grow in Georgia LOL. Abies concolor? No way, jose. You realize parts of its native range get hot as heck? My own-root Abies concolor, 40' high or so, was actually relatively unphased by the first killer hot summer of 2010. No visible branch dieback. It was 2011 having 40 inches of rain in 40 days of late August and September that started its precipitous (no pun intended!) decline. 2012 also had huge clumps of rainfall, which, for example, helped root rot take out a 4'X4' Rhodie 'Capistrano' at breathtaking speed. Whole thing was dead in 10 days, probably. I cut down the last of the Abies concolor in 2013 or 2014, can't remember now.

Last possible explanation is just that his source screwed up and accidentally grafted some onto something other than firma. Not sure the people doing the physical labor are always experts at ID, and labels can and do get misplaced.

Hey guys I also would like to know one more thing. So an expert conifer grafter I know of that runs his own nursery told me that the main tree(scion) in the graft will eventually take over the rootstock and become its own root as many years goes by. He has a mature 50-60 year old picea jezoensis in his nursery backyard and was grafted onto picea abies rootstock. He told me that it is now 100% picea jezoensis including the roots. Is that possible and likely to be true? Does this happen to all grafted trees, whether conifer or not?