How late is too late to re-pot a soggy Meyer Lemon tree?
Comments (21)
Vladimir (Zone 5b Massachusetts)
5 years agoRelated Discussions
Two new trees/too late for full repot & 1 year pot options
Comments (23)A couple of full tree shots. The more I look at this Fireglow the more the ultimate shape solidifies in my mind. I'm very glad that Al (tapla) encouraged me to remove the main trunk on this tree. The lower limb is going to turn into a beautiful 2-3' tall tree. The basic shape of this tree is there. There are multiple plains (vertically) and multiple clusters (in the round). Now, over the next couple of years, I need to put into practice what I've been reading about judicious pruning, bud pinching (to reduce internode length and finish each limb), and partial defoliation (to reduce leaf size). Probably my favorite tree at this point. The Corallinum (due mostly to Al's help in pruning) is developing its top on on side. This tree certainly has shown resilience after loosing alot of it's root mass when dug out of the ground this spring. Now to keep the top in check so the bottom back buds and begins to fill in. Some back budding is already beginning low on this tree. Yay! Thanks for the encouragement and guidance Al. Blake...See MoreLate season re-pot -- it had to be done....
Comments (6)Hi, DL. I'm not quibbling about terms, but it sounds like you only 'potted up', which is quite different from a repot, which includes removing all or almost all of the soil and root work. I agree with James - I think your tree's roots are in dire need of attention come spring. There are lots of posts about repotting methods - James has posted a good one, and I'm sure I've left a description that parallels his on this and other forums, so you might wish to have a look around for it. Your question more closely asks what temperatures will my tree tolerate, but it leaves unanswered the question of what temps are best. It would be best if you could keep actual soil temperatures above 25 and below 42* for the winter. Here is a longer explanation about cold-hardiness I left on this forum previously. If it leaves you with questions, just ask: Commonly, each species of plant has a general range of cold-hardiness. Within species and cultivar, cold-hardiness is genetically determined. That is to say that a plant that is propagated from cuttings or tissue culture will have the same ability to resist cold as the parent plant. Plants cannot "develop" a greater degree of cold-hardiness by repeated or prolonged exposure to cold, even after 100 years (trees). If we pick any plant at random, it may or may not be able to withstand freezing temperatures. The determining factor is the plants ability to prevent freezing of bound water. Bound water is the water inside of cells. There are actually three kinds of water to consider when we discuss "freezing". The water held in soil - When this water freezes, and it can freeze the soil mass solid, it doesn't necessarily kill the plant or tissues. Then there is free or unbound water, also called inter-cellular water. This is water that is found in plant tissues, but is outside of living cells cells. This water can also freeze solid and not kill the plant. The final type of water is bound water or intra-cellular water. If temperatures drop low enough to freeze this water, the cell/tissue/plant dies. This is the freeze damage that kills plants. Fortunately, nature has an antifreeze. Even though temperatures drop well below freezing, all plants don't die. In hardy plants, physiological changes occur as temperatures drop. The plant moves solutes (sugars, salts, starches) into cells and moves water out of cells to inter-cellular spaces in tissues. These solutes act as antifreeze, allowing water in cells to remain liquid to sometimes extremely low temperatures. The above is a description of super-cooling in plants. Some plants even take advantage of another process to withstand very low temps called intra-cellular dehydration. The roots of your trees can stay frozen for extended periods or go through multiple freeze/thaw cycles w/o damage, so long as the temperature does not fall below that required to freeze intra-cellular water. If roots remain frozen, but temperatures remain above killing lows, dessication is the primary concern. If the tree is able to take up water, but temperatures are too low for the tree to grow and make food, stored energy becomes the critical issue. Dormant and quiescent trees are still using energy from their reserves (like a drain on a battery). If those reserves are depleted before the tree can produce photosynthesizing mass, the organism dies. There are a number of factors that have some affect on the cold-hardiness of individual plants, some of which are length of exposure to seasonal cold, water availability (drought stressed plants are more cold tolerant), how recently planted/repotted, etc No one can give a definitive answer that even comes close to accurately assessing the temperature at which bound water will freeze that covers the whole species. Unbound water is of little concern & will usually freeze somewhere around 28*. Some material will be able to withstand little cold & roots could freeze/die at (actual) root temperatures as warm as 25-27*. Other plants may tolerate much colder actual root temperatures - as low as 10*. There's just no way of knowing unless you have a feeling for how cold-tolerant the genetic material the plant was derived from might be, and finding out is expensive (from the plant's perspective). ;o) Another example of this genetic variance is that trees found growing and fruiting well closer to the equator need no chill time, while other trees, derived of genetic stock from a more northerly provenance may need a period of chill to grow with optimum vitality in the subsequent growth period/cycle. It's wise to remember that root death isn't instantaneous at one particular temperature. Roots succumb to cold over a range of chill with cultural conditions affecting the process. The finest roots will die first, and the slightly thicker and more lignified roots will follow, with the last of the roots to succumb being the more perennial and thickest roots. Since any root death is a setback from an energy allocation perspective, and root regeneration takes valuable time, it's probably best to keep actual root temperatures in the 25-40* range as long as we can when the tree is resting, even though the organism as a whole could tolerate much lower temperatures. Even well established trees become very much like cuttings if all but the roots essential to keep the tree viable are lost to cold. Regeneration of roots is an expensive energy outlay and causes the trees to leaf out later than they normally would and shortens the natural growth period and reduces the potential increase in biomass for the next growth cycle and perhaps beyond. Al...See MoreHow late is too late in zone 5?
Comments (39)Summersrhythm, Houses built before refrigeration/electricity often had an unheated room off the basement in which perishable food items were stored to keep them cold and hydrated since these cellars were humid as well as cold. Iceboxes were kept in the kitchen for perishables like fresh meat, eggs and milk to keep at hand for ready availability. Root/fruit cellars were used for storage of perishables that had a longer shelf life but needed cold, but not as cold as an icebox. Foods were stored in them such as: apples, potatoes, carrots, cabbage, winter squash, cheese, cured meats, and bad little boys...just kidding! Put a couple bushels of local, fresh picked McIntosh or Cortland apples in a root cellar at harvest time. Leave then there until they have turned fully ripe when they actually have a glow and feel like they have been rubbed with olive oil. This could be as late as December/January. They're slippery! Now, make applesauce from them, no sugar needed, just a little nutmeg and/or cinnamon. Freeze or can the sauce. You NEVER tasted a better, super healthy, more delicious applesauce in your life!...See MoreHow late is too late to plant in a bed?
Comments (15)Seasoning time for bulbs is like onions and garlic- you can eat onions and garlic right out of the ground, but if you want to store or ship it, you need to let it cure a bit first. Bulbs are like that too. If you plan on transplanting them quickly, you can pull them and use them fresh. But if you want to hold them for replanting later, you need to give them time to season and really go on hiatus before storing them. I've moved around daffodils, crocuses, and hyacinths no problem without seasoning if I do it directly. I also don't treat bulbs like a lot of folk do. When I get a package, I pot them up and grow them out for a year first before putting them into garden spots. After their blooming time is done, I empty out the pot and let the bulbs season till it's planting time in the garden later that year. It takes a year of patience, but most pots divide a lot, so I end up buying half the bulbs I would otherwise. Anyway.. I came to give an update. I planted in the first bed with plants, and the second bed will be finished by the end of the weekend. I haven't done any bulbs yet, because I figure I'll do all those at once when I'm doing other bulbs in the yard....See More
Laura LaRosa (7b)
5 years ago
Arthur
5 years agolast modified: 5 years agoThanks so much for the encouragement, to all!
Scouring local garden centers and pet shops turned up with just 1 bag of Reptibark, Pearlite, a half-gallon bag of orchid moss, and a few bags of BetterGro Orchid Potting Mix. I tried measure out said ingredients in a way approximated 5-1-1, and soaked the mix through the evening.
In baring the root ball, it was amazing how dense some of the dirt clods were, around the roots. The soil from the original nursery, left on during up-potting back in July, was some mix of sand and wood chips, and was very dense around the root core. I'm not a great judge of roots, but I couldn't immediately see flagrant signs of rot. I built a mound with the ersatz 5-1-1, put the roots around it, filled in and tried to jiggle some chips between the roots, then watered with room-temperature drizzle from the sink for a while.
Here's to hoping I did OK. The pessimist in me fears some phrase in this very post describes the straw that breaks the camel's back. But I was optimistic that only one leaf fell off the tree during the whole operation, not all.
@Silica: thanks for the clarification. I was wrong with the diagnosis. I hope that my spraying with Southern AG Citrus Nutritional Spray in reaction didn't make the situation worse.
Link to Photos of the Repotted Plant with its fittonia and schlumbergera friends.
sunshine (zone 6a, Ontario,Canada)
5 years agolast modified: 5 years agoArthur
5 years agoSmall update, though it has only been two days. Leaves have continued to drop. The leaf cluster on the left-hand side of the above photo has one leaf remaining, so there is only one branch with multiple leaves.
The newer leaves at the end of that branch have begun to turn grey and slightly wilted at the tips. See photos below: the first photo is from right after the repotting, the second photo is from today. While a few of the leaves in that cluster did have greyed tips, for others it is new as of today.
The 5-1-1 mix is still moist at 1" below the surface and no water has been added since the repotting, soil temp 63degF.
Wednesday:
Today:
Vladimir (Zone 5b Massachusetts)
5 years agoLaura LaRosa (7b)
5 years agosunshine (zone 6a, Ontario,Canada)
5 years agoArthur
5 years agosunshine (zone 6a, Ontario,Canada)
5 years agoArthur
4 years agoUpdate, six weeks later. The tree doesn't want to go on the cart...
Red arrows point to one sucker branch and one sucker bud(?). Purple dashed line is what I believe to be the graft scar. Green arrows point to what I hope are new growth above the graft. These appeared all within the last week; maybe due to the days getting longer, maybe due to a few degrees rise in temperature inside as some other inhabitants were running fevers.
I have read on this forum that sucker branches are usually not desirable. Are they worth letting grow for a while, if they are the only source of active chloroplasts on the tree? My hunch is yes, but I admit knowing very little about the regrowth tendencies of Meyer lemons.
My next question is whether the old branches are actually dead,or whether they have some hope of rejuvenation:
Most of these branches used to be green, but are now brown or near black. Some show hints of green near the branch collar. Is it worthwhile to prune back branches which look brown, if that might encourage growth from the same collar? Or do brown branches ever return to green, and it's worthwhile to wait?
Thanks, all!
poncirusguy6b452xx
4 years ago
myermike_1micha
4 years agolast modified: 4 years ago
Ike Stewart
4 years agolast modified: 4 years agoArthur
4 years agoponcirusguy6b452xx
4 years agoArthur
4 years agomyermike_1micha
4 years agolast modified: 4 years ago
poncirusguy6b452xx